Brad- Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) How can I decide what´s an exploit and what´s a bad implementation? Abusing or exploiting a design flaw or bug is against the code of conduct. So, the question is not whether it was bad implementation, but rather whether people were abusing the bad implementation. To determine whether or not to participate, all you needed was bit of common sense, and a rudimentary sense of right and wrong. People knew what they were doing was questionable. The videos show that. They knew they were earning more Valor than reasonable or expected. They knew that Republic players were being killed as they respawned (with no chance to defend themselves). Anyone with a bit of common sense, and a rudimentary sense of right and wrong, could easily see there was a problem. Edited January 25, 2012 by Brad- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agenteusa Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No, you're right. BW most likely intended for Republic players to be killed en masse in their base before they even zoned in. It doesn't sound remotely like an exploit. Drop the sarcasm. Ok, and what´s the difference with mass killing in their base or in the middle of the field. Nothing. Again I´ll say the problem is it´s flawed and if you don´t want to acknowledge that, too bad fo you. If they designed it properly nobody would need to go camp other faction base. Seriously I have nothing again fanboys but don´t go to ridicule points to try and defend s*** implementations. I have to add that I didn´t even participate in such actions but I do think it´s wrong to punish people for doing them just as I think it´s wrong to take world first kills from groups just because they used a mechanic that was flawed if you know what I´m talking about. I died in operations a lot from random bugs so where´s my reimbursement ingame? Players fail = players pay. Developers fail = players pay. That´s not really fair right there. I opened 14 tickets so far and I have to get a reply as of now. Just to throw it in your face I even opened a ticket because of the Ilum issue and asked if it was intended but guess what I got no reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baudrillard Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Thumbs down: 1. For failing on common sense. 2. For fail base design 3. For not reacting fast enough on that day (there were some ways to follow the events and take mesures, without even disabling the servers) 4. For unconvincing punishment But you try and care... guess the most will suck it up... But no +rep no + loyality... Serious guys, get brains P.S.: Thanks for making PvP in WZ more end more enjoyable! Big kudoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagns Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 What a load... I couldn't agree more. I have never had a mmo piss me off as much as this one. The tickets i've made after 1.1 about how the PvP in Ilum hasn't changed. When you make it so the Emperial side doesn't smash our faces in at our spawn base, and then moving the camping spot for them so its closer to their own base is just ********. I mean we wouldn't want them to travel any farther then what they need to right?!?!. this will be the probably be the first MMO i have ever been banned from for all the tickets ive sent in. The one ticket i sent i said that they moved the camping spot to the middle of the map and that some kind of imbalancing buff needs to be aplied or to shut it down until Ilum is more balanced and the reply i got was that it was working the way "THEY" intended it to. which tells me they aren't listening to a *********** thing we are saying. I know i'm just one person but i don't see the point to go there, even if you have an ops group. imps out number us on a big scale and BW either has blind guys running the dev department or they just can't read. Do us all a favor BW roll a republic toon and go there to see how long it takes you to do the weekly"daily"/monthly"weekly" pvp quest on an ending note: if your smart and don't see any change to Ilum pvp by the time your next month is up i would either boycott these *****s or just plain ol' move to another MMO. Have a nice day all and BW go **** yourselfs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagns Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Originally Posted by LegionAlpha Carebear alert. Roll on a pve if u waana qq about getting camped. Sounds ignorant right? So does all the comment demanding imps to get rollback or balance servers automatically. And most of all, BW threats are thost ignorant and empty threats. Ban someone for wat? Knowingly exploiting? You have zero evidence they "knew" they were exploiting. Your failure to properly design does not constitute a need to comprehend every detail of the game mechanics. If it didnt work as intended then you should have thought about that before releasing public. You had ample time to test and elaborate and provide opportunity to find all exploits however you failed BW. Now technically your roll back on any player for a faulty mechanic PRODUCED by you is in a sense stealing there time they spent which would be like stealing money. They pay to play, not to play in fear of accidently being involved in an exploit. Now maybe thats a drastic statement but think now on a corpwrate level like BW is. BWhas an income from us but if the gov wanted to step in and say hey this is not how we intended for whatever reason seems fit and takes half the profit or all in this case, Bw be mad bro. Well thats how it looks and how it is. So the argument is merely the fairness and blame. Solved above. If you dint wanna worry about being camped or unfairness in pvp go roll pve on pve server. Simple. If you play pvp and complain about being camped blah blah, close and restart client and select pve server and create character button. Those are both100percent flawless. Thanks-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^^^ i get a kick out of people like this *********** tool. guilds have been banned for less reasons you *******. i hope your one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalrose Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ok, and what´s the difference with mass killing in their base or in the middle of the field. Nothing. I did not make a distinction between the two - would you like more straw for that argument? If you wish to publicly state you cannot distinguish between an obvious exploit and a purposed implementation then by all means do so now. If they designed it properly nobody would need to go camp other faction base. This is immature. The responsible thing to do is bug the exploit and wait for a fix - not abuse it and gain. You were obviously aware that what happened was not what was supposed to happen, so any claims of ignorance wash out right here. Seriously I have nothing again fanboys but don´t go to ridicule points to try and defend s*** implementations. It was not an implementation - it was a bug. but I do think it´s wrong to punish people for doing them Whose doing who? Your opinion on this subject does not change the fact that what was happening was a large number of players were exploiting a bug. I died in operations a lot from random bugs so where´s my reimbursement ingame? Why don't you start a thread about it? Players fail = players pay. Developers fail = players pay. That´s not really fair right there. The players who abused this exploit are paying with their accounts, as they should. I even opened a ticket because of the Ilum issue and asked if it was intended but guess what I got no reply. That's because it is perhaps one of the silliest questions I think you could have asked them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad- Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) The players who abused this exploit are paying with their accounts, as they should. I hope you are right, but I have not seen anything indicating that anyone has been punished to date. Its been a week, hopefully the exploiters will be dealt with soon. Edited January 25, 2012 by Brad- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad- Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Just to throw it in your face I even opened a ticket because of the Ilum issue and asked if it was intended but guess what I got no reply. So, you admit you realized it was questionable. Therefore, you are responsible for abusing a mechanic you admit you knew was questionable. Simple rules to live by: If you think something is wrong, it probably is. If something seems too good to be true, it probably is. People who participated knew it was questionable. They knew they were abusing a flawed design. The did it anyway so they could reap obscene amounts of Valor. Edited January 25, 2012 by Brad- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I hope you are right, but I have not seen anything indicating that anyone has been punished to date. Its been a week, hopefully the exploiters will be dealt with soon. Will you quit if they dont? Everyday that passes its just so much more unlikely they will punish anyone. The gains made on that day are being wildly over inflated. Each and everyday I kill more republic and earn more valour than I did on that day, so its assinine to call bans on people. You republic are being farmed like a resource everytime we goto Ilum, so you are not instantly dying, you are standing in your safe zone while we fish you out one by one. Nothing is going to be done, trust me, but wishing people "pay" with their accounts tells me you were burned on that day and still hurtin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalrose Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Will you quit if they dont? Probably not. The gains made on that day are being wildly over inflated. Must be Imp. Each and everyday I kill more republic and earn more valour than I did on that day, so its assinine to call bans on people. Validate this statement by sharing how much valor you earned on that day and how much you have earned daily since then? Maybe someone with more time can calculate your math. You republic are being farmed like a resource everytime we goto Ilum, so you are not instantly dying, you are standing in your safe zone while we fish you out one by one. Odd shift into insult mode - it's quite jarring. but wishing people "pay" with their accounts tells me you were burned on that day and still hurtin' I'm level 18. I enjoy watching exploiters share their butt-frustration as their potential ban looms, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicain Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You republic are being farmed like a resource everytime we goto Ilum, so you are not instantly dying, you are standing in your safe zone while we fish you out one by one. This made me laugh a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williambr Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I didn't report it. Why would i think camping inside the enemies base as cheating? We all died 10 times destroying the insta kill cannons while fighting repubs off as they got their credit for their dailies as well. The map is just crap. Not the players fault. This isn't like glitching walls in warzones so you can't be shot while you capture/plant explosives, or standing on the huttball podium for invulnerability. Or agents/smugglers using their knock down in certain areas in huttball cause it will stick you face down in the floor and you cant get out of it. I could go on with the other 20 or so craptastic cheats but theres no need. No, they took the enemies base. There instancing on enemy starports, which means your are not intended to go in there. On ilum there was destroyable turrets?!? Why wouldn't your base get taken. Ilums a nice looking place, and could be fun if done right, but right now its a damn waste of time. No one will get banned. Hell I finished up my daily standing in the doorway of the base that day(couldn't get all the way in cause the turret respawned), it was dull and boring. The planet is dull. Meaningless pvp leads to camping. badly thought out design leads to zerging. But if anyone did get banned(you won't) get your money back. I don't care if I lost the 1 valor rank I might have gotten that day(I wouldn't notice anyway), but if I was banned for a week, yeah I'm getting my money back. Oh and, bioware needs to move the empires shuttle in voidstar so we can climb the wing and cheat like the republic can do with their shuttle. I mean, was that biowares intent? EDIT: I did not know that rebels where stuck there not able to revive. That sucks. Edited January 25, 2012 by williambr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidAngel Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 What's really the problem now is that Ilum is WORSE after the patch than it was before. It's true that the "valor rush" screwed up PvP pretty heavily. On Sith Wyrm, PvP is being dominated by premades who group queue with high-level armor sets. But the core problem with Ilos isn't this one incident which is being fixed (and no, they will NOT tell you who got punished; they probably won't even release statistics: that's standard Customer Service practice). The problem is that now, instead of their participation being necessary to flip points, the disadvantaged side (the Republicans, who have about one person for every three Imperials) is -strongly- disincentivized from even showing up in Ilum any more. The Imperials simply hunt down anyone who stands and fights, so the Republicans can't get their dailies done by killing people - since they're outnumbered, literally, around three to one. They CERTAINLY aren't going to be able to get the armament drops, since that's where the entire force of Imperials (which outnumbers them three to one) is located. The most they can do is flip a point and try to kill any bored Imperials (and we ARE bored. It typically takes more than an hour to get your 30 armaments) come try to flip it back. Of course, this isn't a high-return tactic, because the Imperials are getting better gear from Ilos and outnumber the Republicans (everyone together now!) about three to one. It could be that this is different in other servers, particularly PvP servers, where players have spines (I went to a PvE server to play with friends, ok!?). But while this is specifically my experience on Sith Wyrm, I don't expect it to be very different on other servers, since the demographic of faction appeal comes into effect prior to actual gameplay (by which I mean most people pick their faction based on thematic appeal before they actually start playing the Imperial side and realize, to their horror, that they're on the Alliance...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnySalva Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) this is hilariour :E afk leeching in battleground is ok, glitch abusing is ok and a wide bunch of other crappy things going on in that game and now you want to rollback valor for people who just played 'normal' under those circumstances? shouldn't be illum better designed to prevent that thing in the first place? I'd really like to see some of the cheaters and glitch abusers as well as leeches punished, but that will probably never happen and halfway through the googlosphere the forums say it's ok to leech and nothing will ever happen 'here's the best bot for leeching' etcpp, well it was an awesome game up to the level cap but I guess I will follow those who cancelled their subscription and that you deem damage control and bigcashmoneys so much higher than actual problems in game... hell there would be so many ways to solve those problems with programming as a lot of mmos did before this one, still have to see any of the cheaters being punished (and there were people that finished huttball in about 90 seconds with 6 goals, far less than a second to activate any objective, deal environmental dmg to the reaches of 26k anywhere on the huttball map) --- edit --- (by which I mean most people pick their faction based on thematic appeal before they actually start playing the Imperial side and realize, to their horror, that they're on the Alliance...) Yeah, that feeling hit me too late, was already attached to my char Edited January 26, 2012 by SunnySalva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetoseba Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 only way to fix pvp in this game it a full pvp reset!!!! imps win all level 50 pvp no patch is going to fix this RESET RESET RESET!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcslayde Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Although, "taking action against accounts" because of a flaw in YOUR design isn't exactly fair either. I don't go to Ilum, mainly because I find it incredibly boring, and noone is there anyway. You cannot "take action" against someones account for doing something your game allows them to. Sorry, doesn't work that way. So I advise that you revise your statements and actions, or at least carefully think them through if you haven't done anything yet, before you go about continuing to piss off your player base, who is currently paying you those millions of dollars in subscriptions. Without a player-base, you have no game, with no game, you have less money, with less money you have less resource to improve currently existing games, or develop and market new games. This is common business sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcslayde Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Ooo wait, so when I go and camp just outside the republic outpost on Tattoine, im exploiting by killing the people coming out of it, because by design, the area is level 30. Am I correct in this? Thats what it seems is going on here. Design flaw is found and used. And when has it ever been "unfair" to camp an opposing factions base in WORLD PVP.... I have an idea. TO make it "fair" for everyone, why dont you just close off all of Ilum, save for ONE panth connecting the two bases, and crap a bunch of one-shot utrrets on each end, for each faction, that way there is no world PVP and everyone dies before they even get into the base. Or, make it like some of those rediculous level 50 WAY elite guards. So youd need a couple of ops groups just to heal through and take out one of them. Star Wars, the entire series, all of the stories, has always been riddled with war between the republic, and the empire. So the fact that there is a "fairness" issue concerning OPEN WORLD PVP, strikes as retarded... Its open world, ungoverned but occupied space, where people are able to war. There are no rules to war, you find, you kill you occupy and make use of the resources there. Fairness...is an empty promise, and any design to preserve it is rediculous and stupid considering the history of the storyline this game is based off of. Edited January 26, 2012 by Pcslayde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetoseba Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 What a joke you level 50s imps You have to think that having one side all geared When enter level 50 pvp is like a noob walking in a impNPC base.WOW i just died best not come here again!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcslayde Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 And what is this level 50 imp crap? Im going assume that you are upset because you aren't 50. Hmm, go level up. We aren't imps because we are 50 and geared. I played one single character since release to be 50 and geared, so, work did go into it. Sorry you are unwilling or unable to spend the time in order to achieve the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aderes Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Funny that he posts this after the biggest star wars fan site out there bashes the hell out of Ilum and its design. Sounds like a bunch of damage control to me. The patch just went live... how is this damage control? They were slammed from that site before they even had time to enact changes... the fact that the changes happened so quick tells me they knew and were working on it after they heard from other players that didn't roast them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetoseba Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Wrong i have a level 50 char and for one side to be so geared in what 6 weeks. That is crazy to think the other will take it.But hey you can beat yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aderes Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Wrong i have a level 50 char and for one side to be so geared in what 6 weeks. That is crazy to think the other will take it.But hey you can beat yourself. I'm pretty well geared also on republic, just saved my monies and learned the ropes. Mostly solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcslayde Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Wrong i have a level 50 char and for one side to be so geared in what 6 weeks. That is crazy to think the other will take it.But hey you can beat yourself. Well, that just means people were organized and worked together or, just, did it faster than you did. QQ moar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonelead Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 they need to have 2 entry points into illum or have bases you can take over in front of the main base. At the moment the Imps are zerging which is not their fault. Get rid of the instances and make it 1 reb for 1 imp entry... then its fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agenteusa Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) @Chevalrose, Brad Im sorry, I tried to make this thread go in the right direction but there´s no arguing when you don´t want to understand that a player is not responsible to question himself for everything he does , hmm shall I wonder is this a bug a bad implementation or an exploit?? Hmm let me guess... If you fail to understand that you are idiots as far as I´m concerned. So, you admit you realized it was questionable. Therefore, you are responsible for abusing a mechanic you admit you knew was questionable. No you *****, like I explained I DID question myself and thats why I SUBMITTED a ticket so you´re trying to blame me for being a greek and being a trojan at the same time. Decide yourself. Simple rules to live by: If you think something is wrong, it probably is. If something seems too good to be true, it probably is. Not everything you think is wrong is ACTUALLY wrong. If you knew a bit about laws you would know that. But anyway like I told you I want to enjoy a game , not question myself every five minutes if what I´m doing is legal or not. Want a fix? Test your game before releasing it and if something is illegal immediately release a post stating it but we all knot neither happened. People who participated knew it was questionable. They knew they were abusing a flawed design. The did it anyway so they could reap obscene amounts of Valor. Might I ask who the hell do you think you are for questioning other people? Are you Pope John Paul the 2nd? That's because it is perhaps one of the silliest questions I think you could have asked them. silly or not I do have the RIGHT to ask it, if you´re not happy with it you can just get away, but again you are trying to blame me for both doing illegal stuff AND for trying to understand if it´s legal or not. You must have a thunderstrom going on in your head right now. And finally are you REALLY telling all of us that ganging up on one member of the opposing faction is illegal? I don´t think so. never was, and I would likely bey it never will be so your argument about camping or mass killing in the center is heavily flawed Or would you rather tell me that I should complain if I go to Ilum alone and I get killed by 10 members of the opposing faction? Edited January 26, 2012 by Agenteusa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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