Community Blog: Ilum PvP issues

[Brad-]

Wait what? if you loose your wallet and i take it how is that stealing? You say you're a lawyer, point me to the paragraph saying that, until then I call BS.

 

You don't think it is wrong to keep a wallet I lost? Really? You think it would be OK to keep the wallet and the money just because I left it on the cashier's counter?

 

That explains a lot about the attitude of those who exploited. That is exactly why we need severe penalties to prevent exploiting in the future - it is obvious some people are not going to refrain from exploiting just because it isn't the right thing to do.

 

 

 

 

For your edification, here is the law:

 

O.C.G.A. 16-8-6 (2010)

16-8-6. Theft of lost or mislaid property

 

A person commits the offense of theft of lost or mislaid property when he comes into control of property that he knows or learns to have been lost or mislaid and appropriates the property to his own use without first taking reasonable measures to restore the property to the owner.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Brad-

[novaace]

Posted in wrong thread, can't delete.

 

I seem to have unique problems that are related to ability delays (gunslinger).

Problem 1, crouching followed immediately by aim shot:

Animation and cast bar are triggered with no shot.

 

Problem 2, crouching followed immediately by speed shot:

Animation (shooting) and channel bar played but no damage done. The ability does not trigger CD.

 

Problem 3, crouching followed immediately by charged burst(sharpshooter):

Shot is fired with the cast bar triggered.

 

As you can see, all this is due to the ability delay on crouching/covering. The intended mechanics should be cover, shoot, cover... but it does not work. To make it work, you must cover, wait, shoot, cover.. or cover, filter shot, shoot, cover....

 

Problem 4, aim-shot+knockback:

Due to Problem 1, sharpshooter's key defense ability is broken as you run, cover followed by aim-shot just to wait through the animation/timer and then ... nothing ...

 

Problem 5, defense screen:

The tooltip may be wrong, and it does not get triggered at all. In practice, you only use it when you are in danger, and a 1 second delay is as good as dead.

 

Problem 6, AoE knock back.

This one is the opposite to problem 5 as it always work (it feels like it) except that the animation is delayed. It doesn't hurt the mechanics.

 

Problem 7, illegal mods.

This also happens with relic abilities. In short, illegal mod followed immediately by aim shot = 2.5 second cast, where illegal mod + filter shot + aim shot = 2.0 second cast.

 

Note that by immediately, i mean under 1 second. I'm using 2600k@4.8Ghz, 1 SSD for OS, SSD@raid0 for the game and overclocked 460SLI.

Edited January 24, 2012 by novaace

[JabbasHat]

You don't think it is wrong to keep a wallet I lost? Really? You think it would be OK to keep the wallet and the money just because I left it on the cashier's counter?

 

That explains a lot about the attitude of those who exploited. That is exactly why we need severe penalties to prevent exploiting in the future - it is obvious some people are not going to refrain from exploiting just because it isn't right.

 

 

 

 

For your edification, here is the law:

 

O.C.G.A. 16-8-6 (2010)

16-8-6. Theft of lost or mislaid property

 

A person commits the offense of theft of lost or mislaid property when he comes into control of property that he knows or learns to have been lost or mislaid and appropriates the property to his own use without first taking reasonable measures to restore the property to the owner.

 

I wouldn't. But I believe a person to be responsible for his mistakes. If I loose something and someone else takes it, bad luck. Also, thanks for your "edification", the law in Georgia is not something I encounter often in Germany. I did not study law but a quick wiki search suggests that its different here. Anyhow, were straying from the topic. There was no clear guide line, no rules.

Edited January 24, 2012 by JabbasHat

[Brad-]

I wouldn't. But I believe a person to be responsible for his mistakes. If I loose something and someone else takes it, bad luck. Also, thanks for your "edification", the law in Georgia is not something I encounter often in Germany. I did not study law but a quick wiki search suggests that its different here. Anyhow, were straying from the topic. There was no clear guide line, no rules.

 

Common sense, and a sense of right and wrong was all that was needed.

 

People knew something wasn't working as intended. They knew that killing people as the spawned gave them no chance to do anything. They knew they were gaining Valor much faster than was normal or expected. They were commenting on all of the above on the various videos posted on the web.

 

They should have bugged the issues and moved on. Instead, they chose to kill defenseless people as they spawned in their base, and farm a month's worth of Valor in a day - now claiming they had no idea anything was amiss.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Brad-

[JabbasHat]

Common sense, and a sense of right and wrong was all that was needed.

 

People knew something wasn't working as intended. They knew that killing people as the spawned gave them no chance to do anything. They knew they were gaining Valor much faster than was normal or expected. They were commenting on all of the above on the various videos posted on the web.

 

They should have bugged the issues and moved on. Instead, they chose to kill defenseless people as they spawned in their base, and farm a month's worth of Valor in a day - now claiming they had no idea anything was amiss.

 

This is leading no where. Common sense and right/wrong are subject to interpretation.

If no rules have been laid down, punishing in retrospective is just as wrong as abusing

superiority, at least from where I'm standing. I can't understand why you stick to exploiting/bugging. It was neither a loophole nor a bug. It's a failure of game design and one an experienced team should have anticipated.

[Benets]

No Ilum changes, the right move for rep is to boycott Ilum. If we keep goin' there they'll get more than 3 times our valor and get battlemaster in a dumb speed.

 

If we don't go there, we lose 1 bag (and for me it's nothing, you get all items before rank 60 anyway) and they'll earn a bag anyway. Do not worth give them this huge amount of valor for 1 bag.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Benets

[Brad-]

This is leading no where. Common sense and right/wrong are subject to interpretation..

 

I guess I am old school (52 years old), but I do not think right and wrong are really that subjective. While people can, and do, rationalize doing the wrong thing for their selfish interests (like keeping a wallet someone lost) - I really believe they know right from wrong.

 

The problem is that they know it is wrong, but choose to do it anyway because of their selfishishness.

 

People knew there was something fishy about being able to kill people as they were spawning in their base ... they knew they were getting a lot more Valor than normal or expected. They choose to continue, because they wanted to earn a months worth of Valor in a day.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Brad-

[Benets]

Of course the poeple benefited will not think it's wrong.

[Benets]

If every rep stop go to ilum it'll force them to change it quickly.

 

And Bioware should stop give valor in Ilum till it's proply balanced and fixed. So people go there and do daily and leave.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Benets

[Furyslayer]

"We take any sort of situation where one group of players gains an unexpected or unintended advantage over other players very seriously and will act to ensure that all players can have a fair and fun game experience."

 

Then fixed unbalanced servers, 30 v 5 at all times isnt fun or fair

[Scan]

I guess I am old school (52 years old), but I do not think right and wrong are really that subjective. While people can, and do, rationalize doing the wrong thing for their selfish interests (like keeping a wallet someone lost) - I really believe they know right from wrong.

 

What?!

 

Morality is PURELY subjective.

 

Sure some extreme issues like killing for fun etc is almost universal, nearly everything else is subjective.

 

What is right and wrong here is irelevent, there was no cheating going on. As i said before exploitation is not always a bad thing or cheating.

 

They will not punish the playerbase for this and you are massively over exaggerating the gains here, im still only rank 55 and I~ have been to Ilum everyday INCLUDING the supposedly farm DAY, we are farming you repubs everyday, even worse than before, let it go dude...

Edited January 25, 2012 by Scan

[Scan]

In the Rules of Conduct:

http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

 

Under Mods, Hacks, and Cheats:

B. Mod, Hack and Cheat Prohibitions

Using mods, hacks and cheats can give players an unfair advantage over others. To help ensure a level and fair playing environment for the community and for everyone, you may not engage in any of the following behavior:

 

3. You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our System.

 

6. You may not engage in any conduct or practice that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, i.e., "item loading,".

 

Note: That one is where exploiting the valor of killing at the spawn point repeatedly, for hours, would come into play.

 

Under Harassment:

C. Harassment Policy

Our goal is to build a strong community that offers a comfortable atmosphere for all of our players. This means seeing that players have the ability to combat antisocial behavior

 

1. Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players.

 

5. Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy.

 

LMAO!!! ~It was not a MOD, HACK or CHEAT!!!!

 

I do not see one area where spawnkilling is considered a banable offence.

 

Im sorry but there is no mention of repeatedly killing a person on the same spot =/= cheating.

 

Its looks to me that the harrasment rules apply to racial or homophobic abuse, not playing the game.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Scan

[ApeoDesab]

hahahahahahahahahahaha, you have to be kidding me... so the players are going to be punished for a mistake the Dev's made? my take is that if its allowed to happen in game then do it until its fixed.... hopefully i don't get banned now for having an opinion. redic...

[xxTYPOxx]

This was a game design flaw, I feel like bioware are punishing players saying they were exploiting by grouping up and killing the opposite faction like they are supposed to?

 

They owned all the points on the battlefield which gives them significant valor bonuses then to finish daily quests or to try and pvp they push the opposite faction into their base by the shear weight of numbers due to population imbalances.

 

Don't blame the players for trying to PVP in a PVP zone?! The problem is the vast population differences from Empire vs Republic! That's not the players fault..

[AxesTHEpker]

So the CC's really need a fix... its kinda boring getting CC till death.

Ban all the derps exploiting. end of story.

skills?found some skills on youtube-->...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUUWIgm5ssE

no matter what i understand that balance wont happen asap but cmon this is gettin old real quick like...

 

however i do still play and like playing for now if something dosnt happen soon i dont see alot of ppl stickin with this gamer over the upcoming releases...

[Gumbicus]

Like many MMO players ive played a variety of MMO's for years.

 

While i understand new MMO's require a teething stage, usually 3 months for initial bugs, another year for balancing, your planning of Illum seemed half assed.

 

In my job, while not nearly to the same degree as yours when i deploy a new server or group of workstations i don't just cost the server, or just the workstations, i look at the amount of people using it, who will use it, the cost of having them.

 

The point of this and to add in a very easy example, is it feels like you did no even look at what other games which had the same kind of setup.

 

For example WoW, i can't stand the game anymore, im sick of it. But they knew that on each server the amount of players for each side in an open pvp zone would vary dramatically, so on the areas like that one in wrath of the Lich King with the vehicles and stuff, they added a buff to all players in the zone which increased as they were more and more outnumbered.

 

Now SWTOR isn't the finely greased engine WoW is and no MMO ever is on launch like i said it takes time. But at least Blizzard more deeply than what terrain the zone has in it and i hope to prevent this issue in the future that your teams will do the same.

[Napalmbrain]

Ok, so I see you talking about taking action against the violators, but I see NOTHING about what you plan to do to FIX this issue for the long haul.

 

This is really sad what you are let happen to this game Bioware.

 

Of course you can't blame every single person involved in making this game, but whoever is in charge of the big decisions....wow...just wow.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Napalmbrain

[msgwarv]

You guys are just stupid! You going to punish people for using game play systems you designed and gave to them! Make sure that you take actions against those guys who designed it to.

[zapkeet]

Let me put this in a different context. In actual warfare, camping is something that happens. One major battle comes to mind of a bunch of people camping a smaller force. The Battle of the Alamo.

 

So before you talk about stealing make sure your examples make sense. kthnxbye

 

oh i'm sorry, i thought i was playing a video game, not an instance where life and death mattered

 

it was wrong, and people were wrong to exploit it, get over it you guys, kudos to Bioware though

 

Comparing it to splicing, people who spliced weren't punished because it wasn't really not playing the game as it was intended to be played, they still nerfed it, but didn't punish those using it

[zapkeet]

You guys are just stupid! You going to punish people for using game play systems you designed and gave to them! Make sure that you take actions against those guys who designed it to.

 

sigh, going to use the same metaphor before

 

if a bank was to leave a safe open by accident and someone were to steal the money inside of the safe, do you think that the stealer wouldn't get punished because it's the banks fault?

 

the violator would get punished, and the bank would work to fix their blunder, which bioware seems to be intent on doing

 

and if you can't understand that and call bioware stupid, go ahead and unsubscribe would be nicer without all the whiners on this board

[Irishbrewed]

I would like to see ILUM only zone gear. This gear can be lower tiered then champ gear. Maybe on par with centurion. But removing the valor gains from ilum and make it a zone to obtain starter pvp gear would be nice. The valor gains are easily taken advantage of and boosting valor is too easy thus given ppl a free ticket to battlemaster.

 

Why not keep valor gains strictly to warzones and make ilum a good daily quest hub for pvp gear. This would allievete some of the hassle of the RNG champ bags. Still keep them but we could do ilum dailys for off set pcs. Even have epic unique mounts and other nostalgia rewards from an Ilum vendor. So ppl that don't need the lower pvp gear will have a reason to be there as well. But removing the easily obtained valor gains from the zone would be a good idea to consider IMO.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Irishbrewed

[JediDejay]

The amount of Valor granted from these activities was significantly more than intended and we are now carefully investigating players who were on Ilum during this period, and present at some of these 'camping' events. I can reassure you that those who were involved and who gained an unfair advantage over other players inappropriately will be carefully reviewed and action will be taken to restore game balance. This could include Valor adjustments or account actions in accordance with the severity of the issue.

 

Instead of ************, Bioware should start using their brains and improve their product. They are cocky, arrogant and seem ignorant about their mistakes in game design. I wanted to read up news about SWTOR to figure out if and when I might resubscribe to the game, but reading this...

 

really pisses me off.

 

I'm personally offended by Jeff Hickman.

 

Virtual worlds are virtual communities with real people. Why should I take this ****?

 

You make the rules - fine. Don't punish us if the rules are broken and we play by them.

 

Btw, I did not exploit the situation at the Ilum zerg because the crappy game broke down from the usual 60fps to 5 fps.

[Super-Nova]

********, you mean to tell me 180 sith outside the republic base with a full capped ilum because we couldn't get outside our doors gaining 200 valor PER kill wasn't intended? no *********** **** you g-o-d d-a-m-n (**** your profanity filter) *******. Edited January 25, 2012 by Super-Nova

[Gitsumkikin]

Well, this post may have single handedly done in this game for me as far as end game. On a PvP world there is no "unfair" advantage, capturing control points is a logical strategy. Muster some more fighters or you are out of luck, you enter a PvP server with the agreement of the possibility of constant battles, in my case, as well as a majority of the faithfuls from SWG, HOPING for constant battles, this is a sad development

 

Wait, ok, I actually took time to read some other posts, so there was an exploit and they aren't just punishing people for winning a battle and maintaining control of strategic points?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Gitsumkikin

[Morulma]

Is that the sound of retribution on the wind? Have people who enjoy making other people's in-game experience miserable finally gotten a taste of some justice from an MMO? Good work Bioware. The haters will continue to hate, but I am glad to see a company embracing the spirit of fun that a GAME is supposed to have. These exploiters have been eating up peoples subscription fees for too long and I am glad they are finally getting what's coming to em.