WarTornPanda Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 People like to whine because they think it makes them look cool. The same could be said about the people that pretend they are above the "whining". There is nothing wrong with valid complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buur Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 WoW hasn't had polish since maybe BC. I love how everyone wants to compare to TOR to some kind of imaginary version of WoW that isn't buggy and frequently broken. I don't think you understand what polish is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lividcalm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Most people didn't play WoW launch. You can easily tell this because of how buggy everyone talks about it being. It wasn't bugg. It was lagged to hell. And it had the worst patch client ever lol. At least this launcher doesn't use bit torrent... WoW was laggy as all get out you're right, but these were network bugs that caused most of it, so to say it wasn't buggy is incorrect. Loot lag was ramapant. People falling through the world and off the zeppelins/boats constantly. Completely unstable servers. Instances crashing and resetting on you. A good amount of broken quest givers, especially escort quests. Days and days of downtimes, resulting in lots of credits being given out. It certainly was not a smooth launch by any stretch. Point is, this is how MMO launches go. It's not new, it's just been awhile since an MMO this hyped and looked forward to has come out, so the expectations many had were wildly unrealistic. Edited January 21, 2012 by Lividcalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akaanalor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I remember the WoW launch and the subsequent months of rollbacks. I remember on patch days you didnt dare do anything for fear of a rollback and undoing all your work. I remeber the days of bugged instances that would crash then reset on you. I remember instances not resetting when they were supposed to. I remember NO PvP at all at launch. I remember the promise of an honor system that finally appeared a year after launch, and I remember it was horrible. I remember lots of bugs, hotfixes, server crashes, extended downtimes.... but what I don't remember is the hatred on the forums on the level that this game garnishes, even though it's had a far better launch record. Indeed. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 ^This I remember the WoW launch and the subsequent months of rollbacks. I remember on patch days you didnt dare do anything for fear of a rollback and undoing all your work. I remeber the days of bugged instances that would crash then reset on you. I remember instances not resetting when they were supposed to. I remember NO PvP at all at launch. I remember the promise of an honor system that finally appeared a year after launch, and I remember it was horrible. I remember lots of bugs, hotfixes, server crashes, extended downtimes.... but what I don't remember is the hatred on the forums on the level that this game garnishes, even though it's had a far better launch record. ^ So especially this Someone didn't play on a PvP server... You know how I know you didn't play Vanilla WoW? I remember the promise of an honor system that finally appeared a year after launch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I don't think you understand what polish is. Well, I spent so much time playing WoW I forgot what it looked like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buur Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Well, I spent so much time playing WoW I forgot what it looked like. So you spent a lot of time playing a game you didn't like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaurentiusX Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Your memory substantially differs from mine. I was there too and I remember it was like an online version of the French Revolution. indeed, if we could we would have had their heads! http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/french/robes.jpg I'll never understand how people could just forget this, prior to wow I played swg, also full of hatred long before the CU and NGE, it's just part of the mmo experience, elitist jerks demanding this and that. Edited January 21, 2012 by LaurentiusX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So you spent a lot of time playing a game you didn't like? I didn't say that. I liked for along time, despite its many flaws. And I stuck around longer after that primarily because of my guild. I'm just saying, if people want to make the argument that TOR should be compared to WoW after 7 years of development, then they need to acknowledge all the many shortcomings WoW has instead of pretending its perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwormbified Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The players are burned out on games *like* WoW. I myself played it for more than six years and the experience did get stale. I only played a few weeks of Cataclysm before I just got fed up with the whole "grind to max level, gear up in dungeons, raid, do dailies, etc." design that I was permanently turned off from it. WoW's population has been in decline since Cataclysm so I would wager to guess that there are others who are of the same opinion as me. BioWare had an incredible opportunity on their hands. They had an opportunity to deliver a truly innovative and fresh take on the MMO genre - a take barely, if at all, reminiscent of WoW. Instead what the players got was WoW surgically removed from Azeroth and transposed into the Star Wars universe. I hold nothing against the players and their expectations for something more. In fact I sympathize with them. Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buur Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I didn't say that. I liked for along time, despite its many flaws. And I stuck around longer after that primarily because of my guild. I'm just saying, if people want to make the argument that TOR should be compared to WoW after 7 years of development, then they need to acknowledge all the many shortcomings WoW has instead of pretending its perfect. Every game has shortcoming, but that isn't the same as not being polished. In WoW things just work. A lot of things in SWTOR don't just work. The AH is abysmal, the crafting system is stupid and largely useless, travel is unnecessarily tedious, combat is sloppy, getting groups to do content is on some archaic system, etc. A lot of those systems in WoW work fine and are enjoyable. Maybe this is all subjective but judging by the forums I think a lot of people see it similarly. This game isn't competing with the WoW that launched 7 years ago. Expectations are different now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Every game has shortcoming, but that isn't the same as not being polished. In WoW things just work. A lot of things in SWTOR don't just work. The AH is abysmal, the crafting system is stupid and largely useless, travel is unnecessarily tedious, combat is sloppy, getting groups to do content is on some archaic system, etc. A lot of those systems in WoW work fine and are enjoyable. Maybe this is all subjective but judging by the forums I think a lot of people see it similarly. This game isn't competing with the WoW that launched 7 years ago. Expectations are different now. I quit in Wrath, and a lot of things just didn't work. 5 years after launch my mage was still blinking backwards. For awhile I couldn't play as frost on my DK because Obliterate didn't generate runic power. They took out the most interesting talent DK's had because they couldn't un-bug it. The crafting system in WoW, besides being stupid and useless is a huge grindfest. You travel in circles for hours looking for nodes and then stand in front of an anvil for what feels like an eternity while your toon hammers out pairs of metal pants just so you can get a few more points. Travel in TOR is far superior. You can bind to multiple points on a planet, and fly to any planet directly. The only advantage I think WoW has is combat fluidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lividcalm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Someone didn't play on a PvP server... You know how I know you didn't play Vanilla WoW? LOL How? Cause I was there from day one. On Bleeding Hollow, a PvP server. WoW Launch: Nov 2004 Honor System Patch 1.4: May 2005 The honor system that was supopsed to be in place at launch was not there at all. There were no BG's yet. No Warsong Gulch, No Alterac Valley, No Arathi Basin... only random open world PvP. Tarren Mill/South Shore was always popular, but that was it. There were no ranks yet, there were no rewards, PvP had no point at all other then bragging rights. So it wasnt a full year after launch, it was 6 months. Nice troll attempt Coramac. Edited January 21, 2012 by Lividcalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxbaby Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I've read alot of the gripes and complaints on these forums, and i've come to the conclusion that the level of intolerance for bugs and tech issues is way beyond anything i've seen in any other game. The first few month of wow's launch, we experienced up to 20+ days of server down time. During that time i didn't feel the hatred i feel in the swtor forums. Personally I blame the burned out wowers who built unrealistic expectations. Thoughts? I too think it is a burnout to blame. When people are tired of something they try to find an object of their frustration instead of changing their hobbies/habits. Relax and enjoy something else. Yes, we all have problems. Today we were almost yelling at the screen when our abilities weren't triggering or there were lags during the FP. So, yes, I take a break from the game and then will do dailies with ma buddy. And then city nightlife! Yay! Edited January 21, 2012 by maxbaby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buur Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I quit in Wrath, and a lot of things just didn't work. 5 years after launch my mage was still blinking backwards. For awhile I couldn't play as frost on my DK because Obliterate didn't generate runic power. They took out the most interesting talent DK's had because they couldn't un-bug it. The crafting system in WoW, besides being stupid and useless is a huge grindfest. You travel in circles for hours looking for nodes and then stand in front of an anvil for what feels like an eternity while your toon hammers out pairs of metal pants just so you can get a few more points. Travel in TOR is far superior. You can bind to multiple points on a planet, and fly to any planet directly. The only advantage I think WoW has is combat fluidity. So you find crafting in SWTOR better? Honestly? In WoW at least there is some point to leveling crafting. You get a perk just for having the profession near max level. Right now I am 400 armormech and there is nothing for me. I may as well not have a profession because there is zero benefit for having it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCS-Furious Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Personally, although I don't have the exact timetable, I stepped away from WoW for months leading up to TOR. I believe if I went directly from one to the other, it would be boring. I find the game fun and refreshing. Not revolutionary like WoW was (open beta/ vanilla) but still a great time. I think one should ask themselves, if they made WoW 2.0, what could they do to radically make it different? In my opinion, the "WoW- Killer" title will eventually come down to content, not the game system. (This being said, Bioware has a lot of bugs to fix in this system - not excusing them for that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralkora Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It's a victim of a noob studio with no idea how to make a SP into an MMO. Not saying it's easy, but some decisions have just been bad. Plus it's a victim of being released in such a bare bones state/buggy to hell and back. If it's a victim, so are we, and the murderer is Bioware! Explain how they've been bad. Most of the silly decisions are the result of player feedback. The players wanted this. They admitted in their video they listen to what players want. Players are dumb. We know this. Not rolling back valor after the first day. They never said accounts wont be punished, just not right away. They wll remove the valor INDIVIDUALLY from each of them likely. Not the "oh this goes unrewarded" like everyone thinks. The game's going fine. I play without issue all my characters. I enjoy the game, in pvp I have few issues etc. Sure, ability delay and whatnot need to be focused on, but that'll happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebular Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I personally feel that all new MMOs are subject to people burnt out or fed up with [insert any MMO here]. I know I am one such person. I do not however compare this game to [insert any MMO here] nor do I want it to be anything like [insert any MMO here] - I got burnt out and fed up with [insert any MMO here], I don't want the same to happen here. Edited January 21, 2012 by Zebular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTornPanda Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I'm just saying, if people want to make the argument that TOR should be compared to WoW after 7 years of development, then they need to acknowledge all the many shortcomings WoW has instead of pretending its perfect. Name some shortcomings for starters. I personally see nothing wrong with the game aside from the fact that it become entirely too easy at one point. That being said, it's no longer my cup of tea. That doesn't mean it's a failure of a game by any means. Quite the opposite actually. No game has ever sucked away so many hours of my life. Being negative about my experiences with that game would be absurd. What you fail to understand is that 7 years of development for WoW is irrelevant to my (along with the public's) gaming experience. Do you compare BF3 or MW3 to Unreal Tournament 2004 when you play them? Absolutely not. However, if Unreal Tournament 2004 was the most popular FPS of 2011-12 then you most certainly would. Let me do you one better... Do you compare Battlefield 3 to Modern Warfare 1 and say, "Look at the improvements over that version of the game"? I bet you don't and that's because previous iterations of the game are no longer relevant to the gaming community. Edited January 21, 2012 by WarTornPanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So you find crafting in SWTOR better? Honestly? In WoW at least there is some point to leveling crafting. You get a perk just for having the profession near max level. Right now I am 400 armormech and there is nothing for me. I may as well not have a profession because there is zero benefit for having it. Yes, I am honestly finding better. Yeah I'm 400 artifice and I'm not sure what the point is either, but on the other hand I didn't have to grind to get it. In WoW leveling alts was painful. Here the story and voiceovers have made me actually enjoy it. Plus I like how they've added challenging fights to the leveling process. You actually have to think to beat some of the packs with silvers and golds, as opposed to WoW where you could basically kill anything outside an instance with your auto-attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushia Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Most people didn't play WoW launch. You can easily tell this because of how buggy everyone talks about it being. It wasn't bugg. It was lagged to hell. And it had the worst patch client ever lol. At least this launcher doesn't use bit torrent... Yes, wow launch. It was buggy. It had a lot of downtime. It had bugs. But it was nice to play because it was new and I had no expectations. I remember not being able to log on for two days straight. I remember falling through the world and being stuck until a GM came to free me. Getting the downtime refunded in extra days helped too. Nowadays people expect more and they get more. SWTOR's launch beats WoW launch. That some people demand perfection is their problem. It's unrealistic. And coming on the forums having a tantrum about it, just makes you look silly. If you don't like it, walk away and take your money with you. Don't try to pick a fight with the people who like it and want to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTornPanda Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yes, wow launch. It was buggy. It had a lot of downtime. It had bugs. But it was nice to play because it was new and I had no expectations. I remember not being able to log on for two days straight. I remember falling through the world and being stuck until a GM came to free me. Getting the downtime refunded in extra days helped too. Nowadays people expect more and they get more. SWTOR's launch beats WoW launch. That some people demand perfection is their problem. It's unrealistic. And coming on the forums having a tantrum about it, just makes you look silly. If you don't like it, walk away and take your money with you. Don't try to pick a fight with the people who like it and want to stay. Rift had a nearly flawless launch. It's possible and gamers know it. Bioware failed to deliver on many important aspects of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralkora Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Every game has shortcoming, but that isn't the same as not being polished. In WoW things just work. A lot of things in SWTOR don't just work. The AH is abysmal, the crafting system is stupid and largely useless, travel is unnecessarily tedious, combat is sloppy, getting groups to do content is on some archaic system, etc. A lot of those systems in WoW work fine and are enjoyable. Maybe this is all subjective but judging by the forums I think a lot of people see it similarly. This game isn't competing with the WoW that launched 7 years ago. Expectations are different now. If you were around nov 23th 2004 you would know that wow did not just work. Servers died for 3+ days. (Dalaran had my first character, my troll hunter which i loved.. who then turned out to be lost to me heh.) The AH is being improved and in many ways is as limited as the original AH system in wow. The original wow AH had a few more features, but not much. The crafting system needs improvements in terms of what it makes but it's not abad one. Combat is getting cleaned up. Though I'll admit it feels clunky but then so does EVERY MMO BESIDES WOW's... Warhamer felt wrong, rift felt wrong, etc. LFG system.... many people LIKE spamming the channel to find someone for a group. I HATE the lfg system in wow. Dungeon finder is bad. Indeed, expectations are different. yet an MMO does not have to BE wow. There are plenty of games that are still successful even though they are not famous like wow. The majority will like wow because its catering to ease and simplicity which the majority want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralkora Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Rift had a nearly flawless launch. It's possible and gamers know it. Bioware failed to deliver on many important aspects of the game. Servers crashing, patcher *********** up for tons of players is flawless? IT did well, yes, but not perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTornPanda Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) LFG system.... many people LIKE spamming the channel to find someone for a group. Whatever else you said in your post is now completely irrelevant. Edited January 21, 2012 by WarTornPanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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