SWTOR endgame is an absolute disaster

[Vyvian]

All you "panda" players... try Tera. Way better than that other game and you can be more than just a panda, like be a beaver! And of course, they have the hot/sexy races too, but a lot of panda fixation lately leads me to mention them the most. LOL

 

Seriously though, SWTOR will have it's followers and be mildly successful. The real money maker for this title will be going F2P and having a cash shop. The casual, story following players will spend a ton on fluff and other extras. But that's just my opinion...

[Darne]

Are you 10/10 on NM 16-mans?

 

I don't want to start an argument about what skill is and how much time an mmo should take. I really don't. But to answer your question, I am not 10/10 on NM 16-mans. I wonder though if in the current state of the game, if anyone is. Maybe I'm just not in the IN as there are no websites that I know of that post such accomplishments for guilds to show of. I also wonder if that is that even possible with bugs being the only real form of difficulty?

 

Truthfully, I see myself playing other games until 1.2 comes out. I will go in with high hopes of course, but if 1.2 isn't the Jesus patch they are hyping it to be, I will find other games until D3 comes out. Then I will "casually" play that game.

[cshouston]

I don't want to start an argument about what skill is and how much time an mmo should take. I really don't. But to answer your question, I am not 10/10 on NM 16-mans. I wonder though if in the current state of the game, if anyone is. Maybe I'm just not in the IN as there are no websites that I know of that post such accomplishments for guilds to show of. I also wonder if that is that even possible with bugs being the only real form of difficulty?

 

Truthfully, I see myself playing other games until 1.2 comes out. I will go in with high hopes of course, but if 1.2 isn't the Jesus patch they are hyping it to be, I will find other games until D3 comes out. Then I will "casually" play that game.

 

A lot of guilds are 10/10 16NM... there's a thread in this very forum to track that. There are no absolute game-breaking bugs that cannot be surmounted.

[Iandayen]

I don't want to start an argument about what skill is and how much time an mmo should take. I really don't. But to answer your question, I am not 10/10 on NM 16-mans. I wonder though if in the current state of the game, if anyone is. Maybe I'm just not in the IN as there are no websites that I know of that post such accomplishments for guilds to show of. I also wonder if that is that even possible with bugs being the only real form of difficulty?

 

Truthfully, I see myself playing other games until 1.2 comes out. I will go in with high hopes of course, but if 1.2 isn't the Jesus patch they are hyping it to be, I will find other games until D3 comes out. Then I will "casually" play that game.

 

We were US 12th to clear all 16m nightmare on feb 4th (according to that post at least which is the only way to really track it atm)

 

We have done both 16 and 8 nightmare - and I will say this (as will every other person who has legitimately done both) that 16 man normal is about the same as 8 man nightmare barring a few exceptions.

 

So while clearing 8 man nightmare is cool and progression of a sort, until they make the raids a bit more equal in terms of difficulty then yeah, it doesn't really count for much.

 

We just took in 8 fresh lvl 50 alts (in all orange/blue gear with some centurion mixed in from pvp) last week to hard mode 8 man, one shot everything - not hard whatsoever - we got a few columi pieces and plan on doing nightmare this week.

[frank_nachos]

Oh man I managed to get through about 5 pages of this garbage and I only have one thing to say to the OP:

 

DO IT YOURSELF.

 

If you don't like this game, don't play it. You think you can do better after only 4 months of release, then by all means, quit your whining like a little school girl and make something that's better.

 

I reiterate because it's so important. Don't like it? DON'T PLAY IT.

 

You clearly care about the game, and your inane whining about it's rather expected bugs is not going to help change it at all. You're just making yourself look lame.

 

I'm a new player to TOR, played WoW and a couple other MMO's. I have zero sympathy for you. None. If you can make something better I highly encourage you to do so.

[Lostpenguins]

My 2 cents:

1) The HM flashpoints are fine. They actually seem a bit easy, but that's cuz I only run with my guildies and we're in Rakata gear. In every game I've done expert/hard mode the dungeons/fps are caked after you've done them a few times. Nothing wrong with that.

2) The pvp, to me, is a lot better than it was in Rift, but needs some work done. Without the use of macros I'm sort of annoyed there's no easy marking system or targeting system.

3) The endgame operations are terrible at this point. And that's my biggest focus on a game: Raiding.

a) They are super buggy (cough, Soa, cough) after being out for 3 months.

b) They are too easily beaten. NMM isn't anything great. It's the exact same mechanics as HM with more hp and more damage. Whoopee! /sarcasm

c) The loot system is terrible. It needs to be fixed. Tokens are not the way to go. I actually started a post in the Flashpoints forum complaining about how the token system is broken. It has the potential to gear too quickly for some and others may not see their gear drop at all. For instance, my warrior has every piece of gear EXCEPT his gloves. Even his companion has Rakata Gloves. That's just dumb. Loot should be on a commendation system. Rift's system was great for that. No RNG that makes someone walking around 5/5 while others are stuck at 1/5.

 

I really hope 1.2 fixes some of this. From what I understand, the new set gear is still token based, which is still dumb and can't understand why Bioware thinks it's a good idea. It's great when you look at a sample size of 10,000 drops, but they must know it's broken when they've already started doing token drops for BM gear instead of slot drops. I should know... on my way up with Champion gear I had 8 stupid relic tokens before I completed my champion set... yeah... that makes sense... Not.

 

Also, the new gear isn't even the best as you'll have to obtain the gear, then build orange gear with augment slots and strip out the mods to put into your crit-crafted gear to maximize your gear.

 

4) There's absolutely no reason to do 16-mans when they can be done more easily in 8-man. This means our guild is running 8-man groups instead, which leaves me to ask why we're even in the same guild. I don't get to raid with all of my guild anymore. Once again it's dumb.

 

So, yeah, if 16-man isn't made more attractive, if the gear stays in the terrible system I just described, and if the raid content is finished in one month by my guild and we're farming it for the next 2 months while we wait for patch 1.3 I'll be thoroughly disappointed and will probably unsub as a bunch of others in my guild will too.

 

That'll be disappointing if SWTOR has a shorter shelf-life to me than Rift had... because the only redeeming thing I got from Rift was that I am part of a great guild.

[Lostpenguins]

Oh man I managed to get through about 5 pages of this garbage and I only have one thing to say to the OP:

 

DO IT YOURSELF.

 

If you don't like this game, don't play it. You think you can do better after only 4 months of release, then by all means, quit your whining like a little school girl and make something that's better.

 

I reiterate because it's so important. Don't like it? DON'T PLAY IT.

 

You clearly care about the game, and your inane whining about it's rather expected bugs is not going to help change it at all. You're just making yourself look lame.

 

I'm a new player to TOR, played WoW and a couple other MMO's. I have zero sympathy for you. None. If you can make something better I highly encourage you to do so.

 

The OP has a right to complain about the game in hopes that BW will listen to resolve it. Eventually, if things are not changed, he'll just leave. Don't you think it's better to communicate a desire to have the game changed before you actually unsub? If not, then obviously you have no idea how any business or personal relationships work because communication is key.

 

Secondly, don't start insulting the OP and compare his/her behavior to "a little school girl" when you can't even understand the difference between "your" and "you're" and "its" and "it's". Attacking someone while showing an ineptitude in utilizing the language you insult him/her in is just bad.

[Artacks]

A lot of guilds are 10/10 16NM... there's a thread in this very forum to track that. There are no absolute game-breaking bugs that cannot be surmounted.

 

Having 20 guilds clear content within a week of it being out is pretty game breaking tbh. Not to say that they can't bounce back from it, but let's at least be real here.

[Artacks]

All you "panda" players... try Tera. Way better than that other game and you can be more than just a panda, like be a beaver! And of course, they have the hot/sexy races too, but a lot of panda fixation lately leads me to mention them the most. LOL

 

Seriously though, SWTOR will have it's followers and be mildly successful. The real money maker for this title will be going F2P and having a cash shop. The casual, story following players will spend a ton on fluff and other extras. But that's just my opinion...

 

Not quite sure why everyone is scared to mention World of Warcraft. Even their lead design team has stated recently (in an IGN article) that they are fully aware of losing members to TOR.

 

Having a cash shop is ridiculous. Its one of the reasons diablo 3 will be a disaster without some sort of limit. If they allowed players to sell things, I would just get a group of people, grind all day, and sell things at a ridiculously high price knowing someone would buy it.

 

Going F2P would ensure the doom (well, its already doomed, so we'll say more doomer) of this game. Analytically speaking, they were the highest grossed and most subscribed game of all time, and those numbers fell of just as fast as they came in (recent joystiq article[TOR has already lost almost 500,000 subscribers and is now steady at 1.7mil, no longer growing]).

 

This game will most likely end up on the scale of rift, or FFXI, or another equivalent of a game that can hold its own, but isn't the next big thing(shame). As much time as I put into the game, I'm glad I left for the most part because dealing with the lack of support, the insane amount of bugs, the whiny players, and lack of content was a giant headache. I wish BioWare the best, but this just wasn't it for them.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Artacks

[Guenton]

Well, I don't have too much to say about the matter, I believe if a game doesn't make me happy playing it I should just move on, and that's what I'm going to do.

 

I'm mainly a pvp-player so all those flashpoints really do nothing for me, I ran a few with guild out of pure boredom but I'd never run one by own choice. That causes a massive den't in the already not so extensive content there is.

 

I figured the end-game would take a while to appear which is why I took my time as best as I could in leveling, played multiple chars did other stuff rather then focusing on leveling, reached lvl 50 on my first char by the beginning of February. I couldn't have possibly played through the game any slower. And now ..well yeah, what I have is 3 warzones ...and Ilum. Absolutely no more pvp content to look at at all.

 

It doesn't help that I'm stuck on one of the least populated servers (Gardens of Talla) either. But yeah, moving on, I'm cancelling my subscription so it won't renew at the end of this month. Game has potential but I feel they haven't catered enough to pvp players 3 warzones and Ilum simply wasn't enough to keep me paying $15 every month to do just that.

 

Wish you guys all the best, hope it turns into something worthwhile eventually, it's the end of the road for me ~Peace

[Ewgal]

My 2 cents:

 

a) They are super buggy (cough, Soa, cough) after being out for 3 months.

 

 

Soa really should just be re-done from ground up. It just has too many bugs and problems to be any fun at all for raiding. The most broken Ops boss in SWTOR at the moment.

[Tenthletter]

 

4) There's absolutely no reason to do 16-mans when they can be done more easily in 8-man. This means our guild is running 8-man groups instead, which leaves me to ask why we're even in the same guild. I don't get to raid with all of my guild anymore. Once again it's dumb.

 

So, yeah, if 16-man isn't made more attractive, if the gear stays in the terrible system I just described, and if the raid content is finished in one month by my guild and we're farming it for the next 2 months while we wait for patch 1.3 I'll be thoroughly disappointed and will probably unsub as a bunch of others in my guild will too.

 

That'll be disappointing if SWTOR has a shorter shelf-life to me than Rift had... because the only redeeming thing I got from Rift was that I am part of a great guild.

 

Your guild is raiding for gear, not for the challenge of raiding. That's your problem.

 

You admit that 16 mans are harder than 8s, that your have the people to do 16s, and that you think the raid content is too easy, yet you continue to farm 8 mans and complain about it. That's your own fault.

 

Raiding isn't about gear. It's about killing bosses and completing challenging encounters. Anyone can farm a set of gear like this is Diablo, and the raids in this game (even the 16 mans imo) are so easy that there's no reason for "hardcore" raid guilds to not have full Rakata and be done with at least full HM, I'd argue full NM, by now.

 

If you're bored, have a raid group available, and haven't tried 16 man HM or NM, you have nobody to blame but your guild and/or yourself.

 

As far as endgame goes, why are people surprised that it's lackluster? This game was marketed from the start as a casual focused MMO. Which game did you think you were buying?

 

Now, I agree that I'm as disappointed as anyone else by this game. I'm only sticking around for 1.2 in the hopes that it'll breathe some life into this corpse. If it doesn't, there are enough games about to release and/or in beta to keep me occupied. Expect subscription numbers to further plummet for D3, MOP and GW2 though. This coupled with summer means bad news for Bioware if 1.2 isn't mind-blowingly amazing.

[Audenlol]

Your guild is raiding for gear, not for the challenge of raiding. That's your problem.

 

 

 

Perhaps this would be true if the raids where challenging.

 

 

Otherwise, it is all just a grind for gear.

[Dark_Hazard]

It's not even that bad. This game's population is mostly the casual mmo player and the star wars fans so everyone saying its going to plummet once all of those other mmo's come out is wrong.

[Volcan]

200 hours come directly from what Bioware said and I spent about that getting my character to 50. I did play a lot. I did get burnt out. I did most of the bonus missions and the storyline.

 

Hmm then how did people in my guild get to level 50 around noon on the third day of early release? they certainly didn't hack.... I assure you of that.

[TheRealCandyMan]

First and foremost let me assure you that when I say that SWTOR's endgame is a huge mess I am saying this from experience as myself and my guild are one of the most progressed around. We are 4/5 nightmare mode in EV already and most of us have been level 50 since late december. We have consumed all of the content SWTOR has to offer and what we have experienced is alarming.

 

The flashpoints themselves had (and continue) to have tons of bugs. While some of these have been fixed, the very fact they existed and went live in the firstplace is phenomenal. Until 1.1 3/4 of the flashpoints had unlootable chests. If you managed to beat the instance you would get nothing from most bosses which had chests instead of loot from their bodies. This bug existed for an entire month without Bioware actually addressing it which I find unbelievable. Most companies would have jumped all over a bug like this as soon as it was discovered and had a hotfix out ASAP. bioware however took weeks to finally address this massive issue. then there was the "one of your party is locked to a current flaspoint" bug. This bug made it impossible for a certain person with this bug to enter a flaspoint. The hilarious thing is the bug was able to be passed from one character to another like a disease (this was also the only way to fix it!). To get rid of this bug you would have to figure out who had the bug and have someone else create a lvl 1 alt who you invited to party to pass the bug onto it and then the alt would have it. This bug persisted for weeks! Talk about outrageous.

 

Raids were and continue to be even more of a disaster IMO. There are so many bugs and problems with both raid clusters and each individual fights I will only focus on the most disgusting of them.

 

1. In Eternity Vault there was a bug with master loot where if the Raid leader had master loot on and went to pass loot out on the corpse most of the loot would disapear! Only commndations and crafting mats and schematics would be on the corpse while set gear and other drops would simply not be there. The only way to work around this is to have to loot by random loot and everyone having to be careful not to roll on something.

 

2. Bosses would bug out and do all sorts of fun things. The worst involved Gharj. Gharj would bug out and make it so you couldnt re-enter the raid because you were stuck in combat even though noone was in zone. He would then KILL the entire raid while they were outside EV and in the fleet! The only thing you could do was to reset the instance and re-clear 20-30 min of trash.

 

3. The brand new raid Kraggas palace which just released a few days ago is hilariously bad. First off the very first boss, Bonethrasher cannot be tanked and has a very fast enrage timer which means tanks on the fight are useless. This means most guilds trying to get him in HM/NM mode HAVE to sit out tanks (and often melee DPS due to punishing mechanics) if they wanna kill him. Wats funny is the very next boss fight has two bosses which requires TWO TANKS on HM/NM mode. Better hope your guild has extra people who like sitting outside the zone and wont get to fight certain bosses! Also whoever itemized Kraggas palace has no understanding of the game or is downright lazy as all the bosses in Kraggas commonly drop loot which cannot be used by the classes it goes to (this may just be a normal mode issue though). My Bounty Hunter for example, recieved light armor pants with willpower on them ***! Does Bioware even test this stuff?

 

4. Finally the worst raid boss ever created is Soa, the final boss in EV. This may be the single most bugged raid boss I have ever seen. This encounter has so many bugs it would take me 5 pages to explain them all in detail so here are the worst ones. Just last night on hard mode we encountered these ones. After a wipe, sometimes the floor in Soa's room would be half missing and you would have to reset the raid and run back. On the final phase the tank has to kite Soa and get pillars to drop on him so his shield drops and he becomes vunerable. A number of times the pillar would hit him but his shield stayed up! Because of this our guild failed 3 times to Soa and turned what would have been a win into another wipe. We were unable to get beat him because of this garbage yet again. Finally many guilda re reporting Soa after patch 1.1 isnt even dropping loot except for mounts and craft junk. Bioware again is sitting on their hands and taking their sweet time with all of these issue.

 

 

 

I wont even get into PvP issues............but I think most of us are aware of the many problems there.

 

 

 

There are other things as well which are not quite endgame related but incredibly frustrating. Myself and thousands of others who have high end gaming rigs are getting awful performance in SWTOR. I get 10-20 FPS in places like PvP/fleet even though I have a 6970 for crying out loud! I get 50 FPS minimum on high+ settings in every other game I own (BF3, Witcher 2, Rift) but for some reason I get 10 FPS at times in SWTOR. Pathetic.

 

 

 

Lastly, SWTOR is missing the most basic of MMO features like a COMBAT LOG!. What MMO these days releases without a freaking combat log?!!!!!

 

 

 

I really wanted this game to be good and I was expecting it to at least be mediocre and be well polished but to my absolute shock SWTOR is probably the most unpolished and buggy MMO I have every played. How could a game with a budget alledgedly topping $200 Million be this bad? HOW?

 

 

 

For those of you enjoying the game and planning to stick with it, good luck to you and I applaud your patience. SWTOR isnt without its merits of course but as a whole this is the most disapointing launch I have experienced in my 15 years of MMO gaming.

Compared to other games 3 months after launch, SWTOR is fine. Did you play Age of Conan by chance? lol.

 

 

Edit: Why is your master looter looting with people dead?

Edited April 2, 2012 by TheRealCandyMan

[Quintan]

SWTOR has end game content? you mean dailies and bugperations?

 

Compared to other games 3 months after launch, SWTOR is fine. Did you play Age of Conan by chance? lol.

 

 

Edit: Why is your master looter looting with people dead?

 

You keep comparing apples to oranges lol my phone has more features than SWTOR.

 

Wow is approaching a decade of being live and MOP has more features than SWTOR, aside from pandas which are just a new race. I'm playing the new 64 bit WoW and it looks fantastic, the colors are amazing and the spell effects are great plus you don't feel like you're locked up in a shoe box like you do in SWTOR.

 

 

SWTOR will thrive as a single player game for some time but I can't see any one that has played an MMO & is in their right mind ever playing this game past three months

Edited April 2, 2012 by Quintan

[TheRealCandyMan]

SWTOR has end game content? you mean dailies and bugperations?

 

 

 

You keep comparing apples to oranges lol my phone has more features than SWTOR.

 

Wow is approaching a decade of being live and MOP has more features than SWTOR, aside from pandas which are just a new race. I'm playing the new 64 bit WoW and it looks fantastic, the colors are amazing and the spell effects are great plus you don't feel like you're locked up in a shoe box like you do in SWTOR.

 

 

SWTOR will thrive as a single player game for some time but I can't see any one that has played an MMO & is in their right mind ever playing this game past three months

 

Well you just compared apples to oranges as well:D It isn't fair to compare an expansion to the most successful game ever that has been live for 10 years to SWTOR.

 

I do agree with you that this game feels "trapped". If the game stayed in the current shape it's in I probably wont stick around for longer but ill give Bioware the benefit of the doubt for now that they will make it better.

[Quintan]

If the game stayed in the current shape it's in I probably wont stick around for longer but ill give Bioware the benefit of the doubt for now that they will make it better.

 

I would too but they have not given the impression they are headed in the right direction but rather in the wrong direction. I stuck around this long but seeing them spend resources and wasting Q&A on Legacy which has more potential to hurt the game than to help it just shows what a mess SWTOR is turning into.

[Bates_]

The fact that people/guilds are still complaining about EV bugs means they are doing it wrong. Sorry you can't just face roll EV and actually have to think to deal with the bugs. My Guild has 16 NM EV on farm right now, and we have cleared it in under 2 hours to get the "The Infernal" title. The bugs aren't a concern to us anymore because they are so easy to work around.

[Quintan]

The fact that people/guilds are still complaining about EV bugs means they are doing it wrong. Sorry you can't just face roll EV and actually have to think to deal with the bugs. My Guild has 16 NM EV on farm right now, and we have cleared it in under 2 hours to get the "The Infernal" title. The bugs aren't a concern to us anymore because they are so easy to work around.

 

LMAO and this is good? What point are you making here?

 

The game is so ridiculously easy and laughable that my mediocre guild cleared it even with bugs?

 

TY for showing just how bad this game is. New comers will love it at first cause it's a great single player shooter but once you get to the end(if you have played a real MMO) you will grow sick of the game so fast you'll remember this post.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Quintan

[Kaoci]

Not quite sure why everyone is scared to mention World of Warcraft. Even their lead design team has stated recently (in an IGN article) that they are fully aware of losing members to TOR.

 

Having a cash shop is ridiculous. Its one of the reasons diablo 3 will be a disaster without some sort of limit. If they allowed players to sell things, I would just get a group of people, grind all day, and sell things at a ridiculously high price knowing someone would buy it.

 

Going F2P would ensure the doom (well, its already doomed, so we'll say more doomer) of this game. Analytically speaking, they were the highest grossed and most subscribed game of all time, and those numbers fell of just as fast as they came in (recent joystiq article[TOR has already lost almost 500,000 subscribers and is now steady at 1.7mil, no longer growing]).

 

This game will most likely end up on the scale of rift, or FFXI, or another equivalent of a game that can hold its own, but isn't the next big thing(shame). As much time as I put into the game, I'm glad I left for the most part because dealing with the lack of support, the insane amount of bugs, the whiny players, and lack of content was a giant headache. I wish BioWare the best, but this just wasn't it for them.

 

BTW TERA Online sucks balls for PVP because the thing is to level up its the good old fashioned crappy grind grind grind and btw just so u all know i played tera beta and man its a really boring version of a game and it wont ever launch big as they try to advertise if you want pvp game i guese only option atm is GUILD WARS 2 and btw Pandaria i was 100% against but then again i went to Blizzcon and i been watching beta footage it looks good and back to some vanilla mechanics but to be honest wow has become lazy and the pvp is just noooooooo and exspecially with the fact that pandarias end raid is going to be the Siege of Orgimar (TRUE FACT) where the alliance and horde pretty much own garrosh and put thrall back into power.

[Quintan]

BTW TERA Online sucks balls for PVP because the thing is to level up its the good old fashioned crappy grind grind grind and btw just so u all know i played tera beta and man its a really boring version of a game and it wont ever launch big as they try to advertise if you want pvp game i guese only option atm is GUILD WARS 2 and btw Pandaria i was 100% against but then again i went to Blizzcon and i been watching beta footage it looks good and back to some vanilla mechanics but to be honest wow has become lazy and the pvp is just noooooooo and exspecially with the fact that pandarias end raid is going to be the Siege of Orgimar (TRUE FACT) where the alliance and horde pretty much own garrosh and put thrall back into power.

 

Epic stuff my friend. Nothing Bioware seems to know anything about. I was like you and came to SWTOR thinking pandas sucked but Pandas are just a new race and MOP has more content and features than the entire SWTOR game.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Quintan

[Gavin_Darkl]

Epic stuff my friend. Nothing Bioware seems to know anything about. I was like you and came to SWTOR thinking pandas sucked but Pandas are just a new race and MOP has more content and features than the entire SWTOR game.

 

I am starting to think the same thing and that is scary.

[Frozenshiva]

BTW TERA Online sucks balls for PVP because the thing is to level up its the good old fashioned crappy grind grind grind and btw just so u all know i played tera beta and man its a really boring version of a game and it wont ever launch big as they try to advertise if you want pvp game i guese only option atm is GUILD WARS 2 and btw Pandaria i was 100% against but then again i went to Blizzcon and i been watching beta footage it looks good and back to some vanilla mechanics but to be honest wow has become lazy and the pvp is just noooooooo and exspecially with the fact that pandarias end raid is going to be the Siege of Orgimar (TRUE FACT) where the alliance and horde pretty much own garrosh and put thrall back into power.

 

my f... god man .learn punctuation.

My eyes are bleeding.