HunchaBoes Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The cards are meant to run and the drivers should have thresholds built in. Unless you are voiding the warranty in some way, it's the manufacturer's fault. Unless new TOS state that you need to be constantly monitoring your card and your case temps need to be at X temp or lower. /thread Drivers should have thresholds? How can it determine if there is a spike in heat in your case or a spike in electricity? It is up to the user themselves to overclock. Manufacturer's give people the ability to do it with ease, but it is in no shape or form the fault of Joe the Plumber deciding to set his video card on extra crispy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Yes, thank you for proving my point. RivaTuner is third party software that allows driver-level tweaking. PS - Games are also software that allow driver-level tweaking. EDIT: typo Um, no lol. RivaTuner is third party software providing a tool for the USER to directly perform driver-level tweaking of the hardware including pushing it beyond its limits. Games do not . . . changing settings merely allows the user to push the card within its limits. Edited January 20, 2012 by Onyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomxi Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 3rd party software doesn't cause video cards to malfunction. A bad video card causes video cards to malfunction. Tell that to starcraft 2 and the menu screen. That thing has fried a lot of video cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsmileey Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 lol.. This post makes me giggle. Software doesn't destroy hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyInternets Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Um, no lol. RivaTuner is third party software providing a tool for the USER to directly perform driver-level tweaking of the hardware. Games do not . . . . Games can enable and disable driver-level features, such as anti-aliasing and vertical sync. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunchaBoes Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Games can enable and disable driver-level features, such as anti-aliasing and vertical sync. I believe those are more API calls between the game and DirectX. DirectX does the driver handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Games can enable and disable driver-level features, such as anti-aliasing and vertical sync. I'd hit "reply" too soon lol. I'd edited it while you were posting. The difference is that games can only push within the limits. Tuning software allows the user to push beyond those threshholds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyInternets Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I believe those are more API calls between the game and DirectX. DirectX does the driver handling. Not all games make use of DirectX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublmaker Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The recent patch has been causing damage to players' graphics cards. I'm sure it's in the EULA that users accept liability for system damage sustained while running the game (as it is in pretty much every game's EULA), but isn't this taking advantage of the customer? It's unreasonable to expect consumers to buy software at the risk of hundreds of dollars of equipment damage. If a car manufacturer puts out a product with faulty brakes, they get called on it, issue a recall, and compensate customers for any related damages (that includes property). I get that we won't see a dime in compensation for the damage to our systems from SWTOR, but what can we do to change the PC game industry's practice of putting all liability on the consumer? The card was defective, or you did something stupid. It's not the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunchaBoes Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Not all games make use of DirectX. They are either DirectX or OpenGL, which also handles API calls to the driver. And to put the headache to rest, I am referring to true 3D gaming. Edited January 20, 2012 by HunchaBoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Point to one incorrect statement I've made in this thead. I'll wait. You imply that riva tuner kills video cards, and since it is a 3rd party application that means 3rd party applications kill video cards. That is incorrect. In point of fact, Riva Tuner is incapable of over clocking your card and damaging your hardware UNLESS YOU THE USER INSTRUCT IT TO DO SO. Which...wait for it..... wait for it..... IS A USER ERROR AND NO FAULT OF ANY APPLICATION. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Applications do not kill hardware, people kill hardware. Edited January 20, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellthar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Games can enable and disable driver-level features, such as anti-aliasing and vertical sync. If you think AA and vsync are the driver level features anyone is talking about here, you do not know much about video cards. They are talking about performance tuning for clock frequencies, ram frequencies, and other such hardware controls. AA and vsync are software controls, nothing more, and cannot damage your card (unless you have a bad card, or poorly oc'd). Games cannot change the core clock speed or memory speed of your card (without interfacing directly with the card, which makes 0 sense from a programming standpoint when the driver is designed for that purpose). Drivers control both software and hardware. The hardware side is where the damage can happen. The hardware side is also outside the realm of where a game can touch (except where indicated above). Edited January 20, 2012 by Fellthar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyInternets Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) You imply that riva tuner kills video cards, and since it is a 3rd party application that means 3rd party applications kill video cards. That is incorrect. In point of fact, Riva Tuner is incapable of over clocking your card and damaging your hardware UNLESS YOU THE USER INSTRUCT IT TO DO SO. Which...wait for it..... wait for it..... IS A USER ERROR AND NO FAUL OF ANY APPLICATION. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Applications do not kill hardware, people kill hardware. You have a severe deficit in reading comprehension. I did not say that using RivaTuner kills video cards ipso facto, but that it *can* be *used* to make them malfunction (e.g., through excessive overclocking). Regardless, I was refuting the statement that third party software cannot cause a graphics card to malfunction. RivaTuner can indeed be used to cause such hardware malfunction. Refutation successful. Thanks for reading. Edited January 20, 2012 by DannyInternets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 OK, that's nice and all but how is it relevant to anything I've said? All I did was refute the (incorrect) assertion that third party software can't cause a graphics card to malfunction. I've never claimed that SWTOR is responsible for any hardware failures, though it wouldn't be the first game to cause such problems (the original FEAR game actually caused a slew of overheating problems with graphics cards due to disabling driver-level protections). Because you have still not proved your point but are too busy patting yourself on the back to understand that. ;p The only way that Riva can damage your card is by your setting it incorrectly. In short, abusing the program. It does not magically start overclocking your card. What that means is that you, and not the software, damaged the card. The assertion here is that SW wrecked people's cards through no action or fault of their own. That was argued as a logical fallacy based on the fact that third party software cannot damage your card. The intent of that argument was to demonstrate the fallacy of their argument in regard to the subject mater at hand. You interjected a nit-picky argument based on semantics, that you personally believe has reproved those original arguments, and as a result, have promoted yourself to a position of authority. It has not. You are not. ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyInternets Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Because you have still not proved your point but are too busy patting yourself on the back to understand that. ;p The only way that Riva can damage your card is by your setting it incorrectly. In short, abusing the program. It does not magically start overclocking your card. What that means is that you, and not the software, damaged the card. The assertion here is that SW wrecked people's cards through no action or fault of their own. That was argued as a logical fallacy based on the fact that third party software cannot damage your card. The intent of that argument was to demonstrate the fallacy of their argument in regard to the subject mater at hand. You interjected a nit-picky argument based on semantics, that you personally believe has reproved those original arguments, and as a result, have promoted yourself to a position of authority. It has not. You are not. ;p I said that RivaTuner can be used to damage hardware, not that the program contains some independently acting AI that does so without user input. Please read more carefully next time, champ. At no point did I ever claim SWTOR causes hardware faults despite what your fanboy-addled brain might think. Edited January 20, 2012 by DannyInternets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazmtyh Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 You know the scary part is people actually believe that software causes hardware damage. I had a client one time that insisted that someone installed a virus on his PC that burnt out his USB ports, and nothing I said would convince him it wasn't possible. When some people think they 'know' what is going on, they will not have their minds changed no matter what proof you place in front of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechomai Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The recent patch has been causing damage to players' graphics cards. ...I get that we won't see a dime in compensation for the damage to our systems from SWTOR, but what can we do to change the PC game industry's practice of putting all liability on the consumer? GTX 570 (2 of them). Game runs for two hours. The highest temp: 47 C. Get some decent cooling or a better card. Quit perpetuating a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMcGraw Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 You have a severe deficit in reading comprehension. I did not say that using RivaTuner kills video cards ipso facto, but that it *can* be *used* to make them malfunction (e.g., through excessive overclocking). Regardless, I was refuting the statement that third party software cannot cause a graphics card to malfunction. RivaTuner can indeed be used to cause such hardware malfunction. Refutation successful. Thanks for reading. And we all said the same thing: The user would have to make changes to said software in order for it to cause failure. It doesn't load, then randomly FUBAR a graphics card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanharn Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The OP clearly lacks any PC tec knowledge. Its like saying Google broke my sound card ROFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundli Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 This is FUD or ignorance, take your pick.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellthar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 GTX 570 (2 of them). Game runs for two hours. The highest temp: 47 C. Get some decent cooling or a better card. Quit perpetuating a myth. Truth. Also, it is against the ToS for the forums to perpetuate lies (considered trolling), so it is likely if mods notice this thread the OP will be actioned against if they decide that he was willingly spreading mis-information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercenx Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 3rd party software doesn't cause video cards to malfunction. A bad video card causes video cards to malfunction. I'd like to introduce you to release Starcraft 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbanite Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 i thought people had to have accounts to post. dont tell me this person spent 60 bucks plus another 15 to continue to make up lies and bash a game for no reason. I mean i thought i did not have a life but i think this person beats me in that department now. Do you really think the OP is stupid enough to spend all that money on a game he doesn't like when he could try it for free in beta.... oh wait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuka Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Actually in STO's early launch days there was in issue with the game causing vid cards to go into overdrive so Cryptic had to add if I recall correctly FPS restrictions to lock FPS at 60 max until they fixed it. Doesn't mean it's the same issue here though. My GTX480 with the fan at 100% sounds like a squadron of F-18s and my 17 case fans run louder than my vid card so I know it's not overheating. http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=88393 Edited January 20, 2012 by Asuka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenprice Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Haha damage to video cards. More like you have trash cooling or a cheap p.s. or something else. Sounds like the civ forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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