PvP 'DPS' Immortal Build 32/7/2

[DragoAskani]

Its probably generic in some ways but I like this one. I am mostly in tank gear, but have been some vindicator on as I get duplicate tokens. Full champ except my damn saber.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crhfzrdozMZhRr0MZM.1

[Hurrdurrp]

If a player goes deep vengeance and considers it to be a viable PvP build then they simply havn't paid attention or do not play with competitive groups. It offers bad DPS and the only benefit of deep veng is not getting knocked around by the billion sorc/sages out there.

 

I consider rage to be a gimmick because it doesn't help you win and only puts up bigger numbers on your screen for your e-peen. Attempting to kill people as a form of control simply is not effective if you are going against 2+ healer teams. Other classes can burst/DPS much harder then a Rage jug and not sacrifice as much.

 

I've yet to run into a Smash Jedi/Warrior who was able to not get completely screwed over by my ability to control them. Sure they have the speed increase, but I can just infinitely spam my AoE slow. I can choke, and backhand them, ruining the small timing windows for a proper smash burst. So really, Rage is just very gimmicky and only really does well in 1v1 or against bad team compositions.

 

Thought the ability delay seems to not help... but have you tried

 

Force pushing one healer and interupting the other whislt attempting your burst on that certain char for a kill. It happens to go down quite well if you've got the nack for it and team mates who assist your damage.

[Schwarzwald]

Thought the ability delay seems to not help... but have you tried

 

Force pushing one healer and interupting the other whislt attempting your burst on that certain char for a kill. It happens to go down quite well if you've got the nack for it and team mates who assist your damage.

 

Well the control on one person assumes that you can interrupt once, stun twice before resolve caps and then have another interrupt shortly after the stuns.

[dcjoker]

Basically agree with everything OP said as I've run a very similar build for awhile. That said I have two questions.

 

My first question to OP is if the 1 point in crash is worth it.

Force Charge already immobolizes for 2 seconds and interrupts a cast is the 2 second stun really worth the resolve filler?

 

My second question to OP is aren't the 2 points in revenge better spent on guard stance? In pvp I don't find revenge all that helpful in full DPS gear and no points in guard stance or blade barricade.

 

Basically I would take the 1 point in crash and 2 points in revenge and put them in to guard stance.

 

I know it defense isn't effective against all classes but whats the reasoning of putting the points into revenge then?

Edited January 21, 2012 by dcjoker

[Schwarzwald]

Basically agree with everything OP said as I've run a very similar build for awhile. That said I have two questions.

 

My first question to OP is if the 1 point in crash is worth it.

Force Charge already immobolizes for 2 seconds and interrupts a cast is the 2 second stun really worth the resolve filler?

 

My second question to OP is aren't the 2 points in revenge better spent on guard stance? In pvp I don't find revenge all that helpful in full DPS gear and no points in guard stance or blade barricade.

 

Basically I would take the 1 point in crash and 2 points in revenge and put them in to guard stance.

 

I know it defense isn't effective against all classes but whats the reasoning of putting the points into revenge then?

 

I answered the first question above. As for the second question it depends on how they fix Defenses.

 

To the last I knew, Defenses really wasn't working properly in PvP, so if the ability is fixed, then I would think the defenses would be a good skill to get. But if Defense still isn't working quite right yet, then I don't think its worth it. Too much of your incoming damage comes from tech and force attacks, and those are not mitigated by defense.

[Khabarach]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101frMfzrbkuRZhMMZM.1

 

If you have comments or concerns that I haven't come up with, then please reply.

Not a bad build, but there's a couple of things I'd question.

 

First off, quake is pretty much worthless. When taking damage, the first combat roll is their Accuracy vs your defense. This means that Quake and Guard Stance essentially do the same thing. Guard Stance isn't a whole lot better than quake, but given how awkward smash is to apply reliably (especially as one of the few classes it'll make a difference with is ranged), the flat 4% is definitely better than an extremely situational 5%. The same applies to Revenge, the rage savings are incredibly minimal due to how rare that parrying etc. happens. As above too, I'd avoid crash as it's very counterproductive to have.

 

Personally I run with a 'full tank' build which takes unstoppable. Gear wise I'm slightly mixed, lots of dps gear, but I keep the end heavy tank stuff such as the saber and make sure to keep 2 piece tank for the set bonus, though I swap out the mods.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Khabarach

[daomph]

I would have to try it out, but I really don't want spend 100k to repec back to Imortal.

 

Personally, I just think the Focus tree plus Biochem is too good to pass up.

http://knotor.com/skills#Ag8GAyCpy9rTCSsyQUpSYmpyiZKiqrHCy9IA

Edited January 21, 2012 by daomph

[thepickupman]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crhfzrbkuRZhMRZM.1

 

Absolutely love everything about immortal. Any other spec i feel like a gimped marauder trying to be something I'm not. I get more satisfaction making pvp difficult for others, it's almost like playing as the infected team on l4d non-stop.

 

I'm always taunting, slowing, stunning, guarding, and pushing someone. Leave dps to the classes that are designed for it.

Edited January 21, 2012 by thepickupman

[Samurro]

Nice post, but nothing new to me. I just don't like your recommended skillbuild.

[toothness]

I switched to this build; I now can get 6-9 medals per game. I was rage spec earning about 6. It really just comes down to the user; all specs can be good given the user knows how to utilize it.

 

I am just curious as to some of the rotations you use?

 

I am aware of the ravage one; quite good.

[thepickupman]

I switched to this build; I now can get 6-9 medals per game. I was rage spec earning about 6. It really just comes down to the user; all specs can be good given the user knows how to utilize it.

 

I am just curious as to some of the rotations you use?

 

I am aware of the ravage one; quite good.

 

With the amount of stuns in this game i gave up on rage. I just don't see whats so great about it anyway. I've dueled numerous of rage spec'd juggs and marauders and they are so predictable with their rotation that i either "out-stun" them or anticipate the smash and pop CD's and relics and laugh.

 

<3 force choke/backhand + ravage but i wish they would allow ravage to be usable while moving

[daays]

If you honestly think a deep vengence build is useless then you're probably just awful at this game.

 

Not only does it apply dots, but once someone hits 20% health they die because your executes always crit for around 3800 dmg.

 

Not to mention ravage is our highest DPS ability and it constantly gets reset from implate/shatter.

 

Rage does high initial burst damage. Vengence does high execute damage. I'll take someone hitting 20% and dying instantly over running into 5 people and AoEing them for 4k when they're at 100%.

 

Also in your build you should never get Crash. It's awful. Not only does it proc resolve, but it gives you a 2 second stun over a 3 second root. And roots don't proc resolve.

Edited January 21, 2012 by daays

[JLeezy]

i run the EXACT same build in 3/4 battlemaster DPS gear...

 

the ONLY difference is I chose to put my EXTRA point into Unyielding as I didn't see the point in tossing the extra point into CRASH. I assumed that since we were immobilizing our targets, what was the point in stunning them as well for the same two seconds. (if I'm wrong about this extra talent point placement please let me know).

 

At the moment I'm using the tanking ear pieces and two tanking implants while going with the dps set for everything else except saber and shield.

 

For the shield, I chose the tanking one (ONLY BECAUSE I TANK PVE casually) you're probably going to want to choose the DPS one instead.

 

As for my lightsaber, It's still a lvl 50 orange, so my goal will be to get the DPS lightsaber.

 

Your post/guide is bang on for this type of spec, I liked seeing the RAGE Numbers as well, but missed my NON channeled force choke and "Pimp hand" which are VREY VERY helpfull in almost all situations.

 

If anyone DOES have any good suggestions please add them, and regarding gear, I would like to hear from the TANKING PVP GEARED immortals and hopefully hear what they have to say?

 

The 5% buff to dmg when Guard is up (4 piece bonus) seems to be pretty good? let alone the extra second on force choke with the 2 piece?

 

After reading the forums, I geared for DPS in immortal....so naturally I have BUYERS REMORSE and would like to know how the grass is on the other side of the fence? lol

 

Hit me back Juggernauts!

[Bangkokk]

I switched to this build; I now can get 6-9 medals per game. I was rage spec earning about 6. It really just comes down to the user; all specs can be good given the user knows how to utilize it.

 

I am just curious as to some of the rotations you use?

 

I am aware of the ravage one; quite good.

 

Stance dancing with a rage spec I avg 12 medals per game with rakata med pac. Now it's 10 since no 5k heal :/... Switched to a veng/rage spec

 

Only have vindicator gear with champion helmet, chest, main hand and shield off hand. No battle master gear

 

Avg above 200k dps and always get 10k protection, of course stance dancing as well as everything else

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cZI0rorudzMMZGd0Mz.1

 

Will grab crit smash when I start getting more gear

 

Edit: can never see myself dropping obliterate until we get a better gap closer. Reasons why I will never get shatter or Crushing blow. Miss interceptor and force crush tho.

 

I also spam vicious slash and retaliation as I am always at full rage

Edited January 21, 2012 by Bangkokk

[snuff]

I ran something very similar for a good long while. For the choke I would slow, stun, ravage to make sure that I would get that last hit off even if the target had sprint.

 

Your right, it doesn't post up massive numbers but it does good damage and you can 1v1 damn near everything short of a pure healer if given enough time.

 

What I love about the tanking tree on the jug is the amount of CC you get. With the new patch, there is just NO excuse to not be able to lock on, stay on, and kill a target.

[vDarkHelmet]

When does this build become viable to use. Im only 34 right now and have a mixed spec that ive just basically patched together as ive gone along. Id like to have a better time in warzones etc but i usually level alone. I use jaesa right now but would i need to swap to quin?

[vrok-]

It just looks like a basic Immortal build to me. It's just that your guide recommends useful stats instead of useless (for PvP, because of how shield and parry/deflect works) tanking stats. Honestly I don't see why you wouldn't recommend the War Leader's set and replacing the mods with Vindicator or PvE DPS mods, because the set bonuses line up perfectly with this playstyle while the Vindicator's set bonuses are pretty useless.

 

However, the build doesn't really do great or even good focus burst damage at all. That's just the gear doing its job. I know because I have almost the exact same stats.

 

Personally I run a Guardian equivalent Vengeance/Immortal hybrid spec ATM (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crhbzZhRrMrhdzMMZz.1) and well, it's not really that different from a standard Immortal build. Sure, it trades away two instant cast stuns that also present opportunities to use Ravage, but in turn it gets some CC immunity, more damage mitigation and a more frequent and reliable damage rotation.

Edited January 22, 2012 by vrok-

[ArsenalJaycen]

I posted this in another thread and think it right to post it here as well.

 

I think it depends on what your wanting to do. I love PVP and so made a nice spec.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101fMGburbokMZhRr0M.1

 

Unstoppable is so good in PVP as Force Charge is an opener. As well as 2 points into lowering Force Push which helps with resetting Force Charge. 2 points into Unleashed is good as well to counter the many CCs you will get in PVP. I also stuck 2 points into Unyielding as you will get alot of push backs and stuns.

 

And get good scores in PVP quite alot.

 

4 Champions Armour , 2 Champion Implants and 1 Champion Relic

 

Like this one 31-6 K/D 85k damage and 60k Protection

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/717/pvpjugg.jpg/

 

I tried the 14/27/0 one but did not like it in PVP. Losing the ability for both Sonic Barrier and Force Grip that did not need channelling was too much.

 

So the spec I did allow me to PVP and do HM Flashpoints with ease.

[Schwarzwald]

Not a bad build, but there's a couple of things I'd question.

 

First off, quake is pretty much worthless. When taking damage, the first combat roll is their Accuracy vs your defense. This means that Quake and Guard Stance essentially do the same thing. Guard Stance isn't a whole lot better than quake, but given how awkward smash is to apply reliably (especially as one of the few classes it'll make a difference with is ranged), the flat 4% is definitely better than an extremely situational 5%. The same applies to Revenge, the rage savings are incredibly minimal due to how rare that parrying etc. happens. As above too, I'd avoid crash as it's very counterproductive to have.

 

Personally I run with a 'full tank' build which takes unstoppable. Gear wise I'm slightly mixed, lots of dps gear, but I keep the end heavy tank stuff such as the saber and make sure to keep 2 piece tank for the set bonus, though I swap out the mods.

 

The reasons for quake extend to group support as well, seeing as it reduces their accuracy to other people. Though I am unsure if its worth it due to the way the accuracy checks work.

[Schwarzwald]

When does this build become viable to use. Im only 34 right now and have a mixed spec that ive just basically patched together as ive gone along. Id like to have a better time in warzones etc but i usually level alone. I use jaesa right now but would i need to swap to quin?

 

This is an endgame pvp build. This is not a leveling build and is intended to make use of all 41 skill points

[Schwarzwald]

It just looks like a basic Immortal build to me. It's just that your guide recommends useful stats instead of useless (for PvP, because of how shield and parry/deflect works) tanking stats. Honestly I don't see why you wouldn't recommend the War Leader's set and replacing the mods with Vindicator or PvE DPS mods, because the set bonuses line up perfectly with this playstyle while the Vindicator's set bonuses are pretty useless.

 

However, the build doesn't really do great or even good focus burst damage at all. That's just the gear doing its job. I know because I have almost the exact same stats.

 

Personally I run a Guardian equivalent Vengeance/Immortal hybrid spec ATM (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crhbzZhRrMrhdzMMZz.1) and well, it's not really that different from a standard Immortal build. Sure, it trades away two instant cast stuns that also present opportunities to use Ravage, but in turn it gets some CC immunity, more damage mitigation and a more frequent and reliable damage rotation.

 

 

I tried a 14/27/0 build for a while. It only seems to be useful in Huttball though.

 

Deep immortal offers more controled DPS. Crushing Blow > Impale and while some of the stats are nice in vengeance, like unstoppable, Backhand and Unchanneled Force Choke just outweight anything vengeance has to offer IMO.

 

And I beg to differ about the burst. When you account rage costs into everything, Vengeance really falls short in terms of rage spent per damage dealt.

 

You arn't going to win duels with this build against a rage jug and you shouldn't expect too. This build is intended to FILL A ROLE WITHIN A TEAM. Hybrid Immo/Veng just has too many weaknesses.

 

You arn't going to be better then sorc/merc DPS. You arn't going to be better then Operative burst. If you want to play those roles, then play those classes. The only roles I see that Jugs can offer in PvP at the moment and be viable is either the build I've described (or slight variations of at least 31 into Immortal). The other 'viable' build I would have to say is Rage spec, but I don't like the survivability issues it has.

 

 

EDIT: Also updated the build to my current spec and included screenshots of my current stat load out

Edited January 22, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[dcjoker]

I tried a 14/27/0 build for a while. It only seems to be useful in Huttball though.

 

Deep immortal offers more controled DPS. Crushing Blow > Impale and while some of the stats are nice in vengeance, like unstoppable, Backhand and Unchanneled Force Choke just outweight anything vengeance has to offer IMO.

 

And I beg to differ about the burst. When you account rage costs into everything, Vengeance really falls short in terms of rage spent per damage dealt.

 

You arn't going to win duels with this build against a rage jug and you shouldn't expect too. This build is intended to FILL A ROLE WITHIN A TEAM. Hybrid Immo/Veng just has too many weaknesses.

 

You arn't going to be better then sorc/merc DPS. You arn't going to be better then Operative burst. If you want to play those roles, then play those classes. The only roles I see that Jugs can offer in PvP at the moment and be viable is either the build I've described (or slight variations of at least 31 into Immortal). The other 'viable' build I would have to say is Rage spec, but I don't like the survivability issues it has.

 

 

EDIT: Also updated the build to my current spec and included screenshots of my current stat load out

 

First off it's nice to see that you've now spec'd out of crash.

 

But now I would take your 2 points in shield spec and 2 points in revenge and put them in lash out and quake.

 

Other than that I would argue that crushing blow may seem better than impale but don't forget impale has a 9 second cooldown as opposed to CB which is 15.

 

With a CB build you have a lot of time where you are spamming assault or VS while with an impale build you are not.

[Schwarzwald]

True, but I find that the spamming of assault makes for a good rage buffer for my next DPS rotation so I can lay it on heavy without worry about interrupting the flow with another assualt.

 

I've been specced out of Crash for a few days, just havn't updated it yet.

 

My only concern about the Accuracy reduction on smash is if it is worth it to keep yourself alive more vs how the rolls work vs people who don't have any defense, would the accuracy reduction have a noticible effect for burst dps?

Edited January 22, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[dcjoker]

True, but I find that the spamming of assault makes for a good rage buffer for my next DPS rotation so I can lay it on heavy without worry about interrupting the flow with another assualt.

 

Yeah but that's the problem. You have to spam assault.

[Schwarzwald]

You could also use the down time change guards, taunts, spam slow. Those things are pretty useful if you are in the thick of the battle.