Vigilance built around 3-sec channeled melee ability?!

[AkaJabari]

Why is an entire dmg tree built around Master Strike, a 3-Second channeled melee ability? Any time movement is introduced (either by the caster or the target), DMG basically goes down the crapper.

 

One of the upper teir talents of the tree should make the ability mobile. As is just makes the tree a non starter for most of the games content.

[Herew]

Woot? Vigilance is built around high focus. There is a single talent that has something to do with master strike. This talent is IMO strong for what it is inteded, namely PvE, where Master strike is a capable ability. The rest of the tree focuses on reducing focus cost/providing high focus generation and PvP survivability, as well as some PvE fillers. Edited January 20, 2012 by Herew

[AkaJabari]

But that single ability, Zen Strike, pretty much makes Master Strike THE CORE ability in a Vigil dmg rotation.

 

There really should be a talent to make it mobile cast or just baked into Shein Form

[Tomatoz]

you have got to be smoking something pretty good if you think a 30% chance to refresh master strike suddenly makes it THE CORE ABILITY

[stevesetoe]

Do people even put points in Zen Strike?

 

I know I don't.

[stevesetoe]

Heck, I don't even have time to use it when I attack someone. Force Leap, Blade Storm, Push, Saber Throw, Force leap, Sundering Strike, Overhead Slash, Blade Storm, plasma Brand and Dispatch anywhere in between or at the end.

 

I sometimes use it when I can't leap to someone, or someone leaps to me first etc. but it's hardly a core ability.

[Thurinor]

Heck, I don't even have time to use it when I attack someone. Force Leap, Blade Storm, Push, Saber Throw, Force leap, Sundering Strike, Overhead Slash, Blade Storm, plasma Brand and Dispatch anywhere in between or at the end.

 

I sometimes use it when I can't leap to someone, or someone leaps to me first etc. but it's hardly a core ability.

 

?

 

Master Strike is probably the hardest hitting ability in the entire game. A Vigilance spec is 100% about using MS as much as possible.

 

Once you get your head around the fact there is no rotation and it is a priority based system built around getting MS off cooldown as much as possbile you will see DPS on Vigilance go throught the ceiling.

 

I ST, then FL, SS, MS, PB (for DoT and chance of MS reset), OS (once again check for MS reset pop it if it does), then critting BS, then another SS. By then PB is back off cooldown and I rotate between that, SS and OS trying to get MS off cooldown.

 

If you aren't using Master Strike you are gimping your DPS

[Mig-go]

Just a tought. How much adding unbreakable root (interrupt would cancel root aswell unless specced so that MS is uninteruptable) to target that last trought master strike would help its use in PvP? Edited January 20, 2012 by Mig-go

[Thurinor]

Just a tought. How much adding unbreakable root (interrupt would cancel root aswell unless specced so that MS is uninteruptable) to target that last trought master strike would help its use in PvP?

 

That may seem a small change but it would in fact be an enormous change.

 

I think it would be fantastic....but I can hear the Sorc and BH QQ from here!

[Mig-go]

That may seem a small change but it would in fact be an enormous change.

 

I think it would be fantastic....but I can hear the Sorc and BH QQ from here!

 

Well, I though it would be fine as you are rooted aswell during animation. Other similar change (not as good perhaps) would be change so that MS dont root you either anymore.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Mig-go

[AWDBAHL]

That may seem a small change but it would in fact be an enormous change.

 

I think it would be fantastic....but I can hear the Sorc and BH QQ from here!

 

Why would they cry? They can just spam their aoe knockback THAT ALSO ROOTS US IN PLACE FOR 6 SECONDS AFTER and then face **** us with force lightning spam.

Edited January 20, 2012 by AWDBAHL

[Thurinor]

Why would they cry? They can just spam their aoe knockback THAT ALSO ROOTS US IN PLACE FOR 6 SECONDS AFTER and then face **** us with force lightning spam.

 

They wouldn't only be getting slightly tickled by us anymore....

[Mig-go]

Why would they cry? They can just spam their aoe knockback THAT ALSO ROOTS US IN PLACE FOR 6 SECONDS AFTER and then face **** us with force lightning spam.

 

In my suggestion only knockbacks/pushes would be effective breaking MS channeling if specced as uninterruptable. Which itself would be IMO fine balance (MS would be very effective in PvP but not totally overpowered).

Edited January 20, 2012 by Mig-go

[Keleus]

TL;DR

 

Rotation I usem and have actually found to work rather well, is leap in, sunder strike, master strike, sunder again, sweep, overhead slash, plasma brand, blade storm, sunder, rinse and repeat. Seems ti work, since when on my own gold mobs die stupid fast.

[Nellise]

Master Strike is probably the hardest hitting ability in the entire game. A Vigilance spec is 100% about using MS as much as possible.

 

Once you get your head around the fact there is no rotation and it is a priority based system built around getting MS off cooldown as much as possbile you will see DPS on Vigilance go throught the ceiling.

 

If you aren't using Master Strike you are gimping your DPS

 

Can you provide any evidence this is true? Going off the tooltips for my abilities, Master Strike isn't close to being my hardest hitting ability. Remember, Master Strike uses 2 gcds which essentially halves its damage. It's also backloaded damage, the last hit hits for more than the others so if you have to stop the channel for any reason, it's really poor damage.

 

From my tooltips:

Master Strike: 3297-3633 in 3s, or 1732 per gcd

Blade Storm: 1820-1897+302 Burning Blade dot and about 90% crit, or nearly 3000 per gcd

Overhead Smash: 1933-2207 + 476 dot, 2546 per gcd

Plasma Brand: 1150-1219+1494 dot, 2679 per gcd

 

Now it's possible the Master Strike tooltip damage is way off or I'm misunderstanding it, but from what I see it's not close to being even the hardest hitting ability in its own spec, let alone the game.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Nellise

[Atamasama]

Can you provide any evidence this is true? Going off the tooltips for my abilities, Master Strike isn't close to being my hardest hitting ability. Remember, Master Strike uses 2 gcds which essentially halves its damage. It's also backloaded damage, the last hit hits for more than the others so if you have to stop the channel for any reason, it's really poor damage.

 

From my tooltips:

Master Strike: 3297-3633 in 3s, or 1732 per gcd

Blade Storm: 1820-1897+302 Burning Blade dot and about 90% crit, or nearly 3000 per gcd

Overhead Smash: 1933-2207 + 476 dot, 2546 per gcd

Plasma Brand: 1150-1219+1494 dot, 2679 per gcd

 

Now it's possible the Master Strike tooltip damage is way off or I'm misunderstanding it, but from what I see it's not close to being even the hardest hitting ability in its own spec, let alone the game.

No I think you're right. Generally those who proclaim that Master Strike is extremely powerful are neglecting the fact that it takes up 2 GCDs. Now, it's not a bad ability (especially in PvE) because it costs zero Focus, you get it very early on, and it's available in any spec. But it's not our most powerful attack. Not even for a tank, who is also using either Overhead Slash or Guardian Slash depending on spec.

[Drakks]

Can you provide any evidence this is true? Going off the tooltips for my abilities, Master Strike isn't close to being my hardest hitting ability. Remember, Master Strike uses 2 gcds which essentially halves its damage. It's also backloaded damage, the last hit hits for more than the others so if you have to stop the channel for any reason, it's really poor damage.

 

From my tooltips:

Master Strike: 3297-3633 in 3s, or 1732 per gcd

Blade Storm: 1820-1897+302 Burning Blade dot and about 90% crit, or nearly 3000 per gcd

Overhead Smash: 1933-2207 + 476 dot, 2546 per gcd

Plasma Brand: 1150-1219+1494 dot, 2679 per gcd

 

Now it's possible the Master Strike tooltip damage is way off or I'm misunderstanding it, but from what I see it's not close to being even the hardest hitting ability in its own spec, let alone the game.

 

Master Strike would be the hardest hitting ability in terms of damage/focus spent. I can't really see any other angle on it.

[Sabredance]

I am with you OP and had this discussion before.

 

I also think Zen Strike makes Master Strike the Core ability and Vigiliance a PvE tree with very decent damage there

but only a hybrid tree in PvP as Master Strike is unreliable and even dangerous (Self-CC) in PvP.

 

Imho the tree needs an overhaul.

 

Somehow i love the animation of Master Strike and one way to improve the tree would be to make the use of Master Strike more reliable.

 

I would switch Effluence with Unwavering Focus.

Now we need a root or a stun on Master Strike.

And the ability animation should stop once the opponent is out of reach.

 

A more pragmatic way as Master Strike will always be situational/clumsy->

+30% crit damage for 3+ skills.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Sabredance

[Atamasama]

Master Strike would be the hardest hitting ability in terms of damage/focus spent. I can't really see any other angle on it.

Vigilance builds up Focus so quickly using Shien that I don't see that Focus efficiency is that much of a priority. But even if it was, Blade Storm would have it beat when applied after a Force Leap makes it free (with Momentum).

 

EDIT: I forgot, your best bet for damage/Focus spent, hands-down, is Force Sweep.

 

It hits fairly hard with Swelling Winds and can hit up to 5 enemies (so depending on how you're determining DPS you could multiply its damage by 5) but more importantly, Effluence makes it free, and Shien makes it refund a point of Focus even when it's free.

 

So you have a hard-hitting AoE attack that is available every 12 seconds, which actually generates a point of Focus.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Atamasama

[skateboardc]

I believe the whole Vigilance tree needs and overhaul. I been 50 for some time now and playing all 3 trees, with numerous respects(spent over a million) Vigilance appears to be the weakest DPS tree right under our Defense tree.

[blacksarevok]

They need to just significantly buff Master Strike's damage, or make it energy based so it ignores armor. As of now it's hardly even worth using at all, and it seems a lot of people are dropping it from their rotation completely (since its priority is below Plasma Brand, Overhead Slash, AND Bladestorm) and putting the Zen Strike points in more useful places.

 

It extremely hard to use because of the channel, and making it root would probably be OP in PVP. Best thing the devs can do is make it do so much damage that its easily worth using when we can actually use it without interruption.

 

EDIT: Another alternative could be to change Zen Strike to also allow Master Strike to generate focus over it's duration. Maybe 2 per second. Instead of comparing it to focus consuming attacks, we would start comparing it to focus generating attacks, in which it would be leagues better than the alternatives.

Edited January 21, 2012 by blacksarevok

[blacksarevok]

Has anyone done any real testing with Master Strike? I've been messing with several different types of mobs and I've been noticing that it seems to hit right within the range of the tooltips damage, leading me to believe it may be ignoring armor. My tip says it does 3043-3318, and the first two hits always seem to do around 800, and the final hit is usually in the 1600 range, which would be right around 3200. I know for certain I see Overhead Slash and Bladestorm doing something like 20% less damage than the tooltip states, which is what sparked this.

 

If Master Strike does ignore armor, it might change things a bit. Anyone else care to look into this?

Edited January 21, 2012 by blacksarevok

[defendurname]

I don't know what you guys do but for me Master Strike is simply a filler ability. Usually after I leap, use sundering strike, and then burn throw my main damage abilities I have a period where I can either use strike to build more focus, which I don't normally need, or to spend that time using Master Strike as a filler ablility.

 

 

And, as a filler ability, Master Strike completely blows strike/sundering strike out of the water

[JRandim]

I'm still learning the Guard/Jugg trees(I have a 50 marad) but the Master Strike/Ravage skill for Sentinels/Maras has a passive that makes MS/Rav root for the duration of it. Given their damage output, if they can have it I don't think its to unbalancing to let Guards/Juggs have something similar.

 

Again though I'm not entirely familiar with this AC, or atleast not as much as I am with the Dual wield ACs

[Aussircaex]

To make the best use of Blade Storm, the Vigilance Guardian needs to use PB or OS every 9s, followed up by BS of course. This expends 6-7 focus. In that time, using SS can get you 6 focus - so to maintain DPS, you have 2 free GCDs, in which you need to come out *generating* 1 focus in 2 GCDs. Over time, Combat Focus really helps maintain focus levels, but essentially, you need to choose between using Master Strike, or using some other ability and making up for it with a Strike. I'd guess Master Strike is better in that situation.