Snaffoo Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Simple question.. Arsenal or pyro for PvP? i've been Arsenal, and was just wondering if pyro had better perks? Anything helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkerfox Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 25 Arsenal here im usually 1-3 on damage over all at the end, Tho i have yet to try Pyro i find arsenal much more fitting to my playstyle xP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWOogieboogie Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I was Arsenal up to 23 then wanted to try Pyrotech. After a few WZ's to get my attacks set I did not think I was going to like it. It does not seem like you are doing much damage but when the WZ ends I have been top damage every match so far thru two levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicenewtonz Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Arsenal is definitely the better spec while leveling, you just dont have the gear to support pyro and the heat management is rough. However once you are 50 and have some expertise pyrotech just blows arsenal out of the water, the burst is better, the survivability is better, and the mobility is WAY better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crotach Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 So arsenal up to 49 and pyro at 50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallz Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 imho get bit PVP gear before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixball Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Arsenal is definitely the better spec while leveling, you just dont have the gear to support pyro and the heat management is rough. However once you are 50 and have some expertise pyrotech just blows arsenal out of the water, the burst is better, the survivability is better, and the mobility is WAY better. Wasn't going to log in, but had to address this.... Tired of seeing the "Arsenal has no mobility / survivabilty" nonsense repeated ad nauseum Did PVP form 20-49 Arsenal - Post up, shot 1-2 Tracers, move, shoot Heat seekers, other missiles, Rail shot (all on the move) take 3 sec to unload, another tracer to refresh CD and scoot And survivability? we do have Kolto Vents, Shock, heal, shield, knock back, concussion and scoot - keep up the run-n-gun. Now, is it EASIER to be mobile in Pyro? tried it at 50 - and yeah, you get 2-3 more options to fire off while moving, but Aresnal is in NO WAY locked down to HAVING to stand still to fight. Pyro v Arsenal is personal preference, and rule of thumb for any ranged: Never fire more than 2 shots from the same position: Shoot then MOVE... /fin Edited January 20, 2012 by Sixball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infighter Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Wasn't going to log in, but had to address this.... Tired of seeing the "Arsenal has no mobility / survivabilty" nonsense repeated ad nauseum Did PVP form 20-49 Arsenal - Post up, shot 1-2 Tracers, move, shoot Heat seekers, other missiles, Rail shot (all on the move) take 3 sec to unload, another tracer to refresh CD and scoot And survivability? we do have Kolto Vents, Shock, heal, shield, knock back, concussion and scoot - keep up the run-n-gun. Now, is it EASIER to be mobile in Pyro? tried it at 50 - and yeah, you get 2-3 more options to fire off while moving, but Aresnal is in NO WAY locked down to HAVING to stand still to fight. Pyro v Arsenal is personal preference, and rule of thumb for any ranged: Never fire more than 2 shots from the same position: Shoot then MOVE... /fin The problem with arsenal is that only 20% of the damage can be done while moving. Compared to 80% of the Pyrotech's. So yeah, that's what I would call bad mobility. Survivability is pretty much the same. The only difference is that Pyro somehow can kite and effectively LoS where as Arsenal melees sit on you and rangeds LoS you without issues and you can hardly do anything about it. Edited January 20, 2012 by Infighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixball Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) The problem with arsenal is that only 20% of the damage can be done while moving. Compared to 80% of the Pyrotech's. So yeah, that's what I would call bad mobility. Survivability is pretty much the same. The only difference is that Pyro someone can kite and effectively LoS where as Arsenal melees sit on you and rangeds LoS you without issues and you can hardly do anything about it. 20%? 80%? Site your source.. without damage meters, those numbers are really quite arbitrary. Please dont repeat forum theorizing and rumors, but rather speak from spending a few hours out there in both specs in WZ's, running your own tests with your own play-style - which is where my findings originate. Arsenal can kite as well - the only shots we "stand still" for are tracer, power shot, concussion missile and unload - the rest are shot on-the-fly Melee's will tear both Pyro and Arsenal up IF you stand there and try to tank em And if a ranged LOS's me, they effectively LOS'd themselves... Found it really bugs the piss out of other players when they try to get you, maybe smack you 1-2 times while your spamming quick shots - on the move. They seem to not like the constant barrage of color in their face - because they tend to quit. (Or they get so combat focused, your TEAM-MATES jump in and shred em...) You are a Bounty HUNTER - run and gun like one... Edited January 20, 2012 by Sixball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxxar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Pyrotech is better for PvP and it is not just about the damage output or the instant casting. Pyrotech has more CC and escape triggers. Degauss: 100 % chance to remove all movement impairing effects and it is shielding you. Sweltering Heat: CGC has a 100 % chance when applied to reduce targets movement by 50% for 2 secs. Plus super heated Rail will refresh this condition. Infra-red sensors boost passive stealth detection. Energy Re-bounder: will reduce the cool down of Energy Shield by 3 seconds and remember ES now removes all Movement Impairing effects. Arsenal pretty much only gets Jet escape and Afterburners. One of which gives Rocket Punch a push back, however pyro still have Jet boost just now as often. Pyro just has more PvP utilities available to it. Edited January 20, 2012 by Jaxxar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciry Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Simple question.. Arsenal or pyro for PvP? i've been Arsenal, and was just wondering if pyro had better perks? Anything helps People keep asking this question and people keep arguing about it. My advice is to try them both. Respec'ing is cheap and resets once a week. Try them both out, see which you like better. Both have good and bad things about them and both have incorrect comments made about them by people on these forums. So if you want the best answer, find out for yourself which you like. I've played arsenal spec, hybrid spec, and pyro and many variations of each. I like both but I personally like pyro better. Both are completely valid for pvp though you will have to play each one differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaftFett Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's a matter of play style, both have their advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Arsenal is definitely the better spec while leveling, you just dont have the gear to support pyro and the heat management is rough. However once you are 50 and have some expertise pyrotech just blows arsenal out of the water, the burst is better, the survivability is better, and the mobility is WAY better. what is your burst rotation if you don't mind me asking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infighter Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 20%? 80%? Site your source.. without damage meters, those numbers are really quite arbitrary. Please dont repeat forum theorizing and rumors, but rather speak from spending a few hours out there in both specs in WZ's, running your own tests with your own play-style - which is where my findings originate. Arsenal can kite as well - the only shots we "stand still" for are tracer, power shot, concussion missile and unload - the rest are shot on-the-fly Melee's will tear both Pyro and Arsenal up IF you stand there and try to tank em And if a ranged LOS's me, they effectively LOS'd themselves... Found it really bugs the piss out of other players when they try to get you, maybe smack you 1-2 times while your spamming quick shots - on the move. They seem to not like the constant barrage of color in their face - because they tend to quit. (Or they get so combat focused, your TEAM-MATES jump in and shred em...) You are a Bounty HUNTER - run and gun like one... Hmm? I think it's fairly easy to math out the amount of damage you can do while moving as arsenal. Everything to be effective as Ars needs tracer missile spamming which you can't do while moving. Meanwhile as Pyro, Incendiary missile, Thermal Detonator, Combustible procs and Rail shot (which is where most of the damage comes from in PvP) can all be done while moving. And how exactly can you effectively kite as Arsenal? You have no slows, you have no sprint, you don't move faster than the others. The only thing you have is a short cd knockback that is useful for 2 seconds best before they leap back on your face and is only veeery effective on Huttball. As Pyro, you can continue to proc combustible by just spamming rapid shots which slows the enemy down. Every ranged class in this game is playing a DoT class in PvP, both Sorcs, Snipers and other Mercs. So if they are playing the LoS game with you, be sure that you are going to die, while they are not. As sorry as I think this is, I believe that Arsenal has no place in serious PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicenewtonz Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 what is your burst rotation if you don't mind me asking The typical rotation to burst down a target before they can react (a healer, or a class with vanish) would be incendiary missile (always first) -> thermal detonator -> power shot -> rail shot. with thermal detonators 3 second delay and the 1.5 second global cooldown into 1.5 second cast time on power shot, you can get all 3 of these abilities to do their damage at the exact same time. The rotation to take down a target that doesnt have such an instant escape or heals though would be incendiary missile -> thermal detonator -> rail shot -> unload -> possible rail shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodou Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Arsenal is definitely the better spec while leveling, you just dont have the gear to support pyro and the heat management is rough. However once you are 50 and have some expertise pyrotech just blows arsenal out of the water, the burst is better, the survivability is better, and the mobility is WAY better. To test this, I burst you down in a 1v1 during Huttball. I won without even using shield, which you did. Clearly you're high. Edited January 21, 2012 by Jodou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicenewtonz Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) To test this, I burst you down in a 1v1 during Huttball. I won without even using shield, which you did. Clearly you're high. i dont recall this ever happening, but if it did it was with your premade butt buddies riding me or me at half health. Glad you can make up stories to defend your horrible spec though. Edited January 21, 2012 by Juicenewtonz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodou Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Glad you can make up stories to defend your horrible spec though. Irony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicenewtonz Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Irony? Possibly to someone who most likely cant function if he ever needs to press more than 3 abilities, to someone who has never lost a fair fight to any mercenary / commando on the server though no, it is not irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trephination Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Arsenal and Pyro both have their own advantages. I find that Arsenal is more effective when I'm running with a healer. It puts out more DPS and has more consistent mitigation than Pyro, but requires you to set up each burst volley with a minimum of 2-3 tracers -- up to 4.5 secs of being stationary before you can burst. It is a miserable spec against good marauders / LoS-using sorcs because of its reliance on tracer. Arsenal has slightly better tools for peeling off a healer teammate due to jet boost and rocket punch. Pyro is more maneuverable, allowing you to fair better against melee and LoS-exploiting ranged. It is less powerful in straight-up ranged duels where you're able to turret while uninterrupted, but more versatile as a result of its mobility. I like Pyro best at the moment, but I would never dismiss Arsenal and have played a lot of both. Edited January 21, 2012 by Trephination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzut Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I've played both Arsenal and Pyrotech and the difference is stark. Arsenal Mercenaries, no matter how much they protest, do indeed need to stand still for long periods of time in order to put out all of their damage, which is far better than Pyrotech's up until level 40. (Max stacks of Heat Signature create ridiculous damage.) When Pyrotechs get Thermal Detonator, the damage finally becomes comparable, and Pyrotechs retain their awesome mobility; only two of their skills, Power Shot and Unload (and maybe Flamethrower, I guess), require them to stand still, and you only use them each once or twice per DPS cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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