Scinald Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Just ran into what I assume was a Shadow (and I'm going to guess Assassins can do the same thing), who was able to alternate stuns on me and another person in a warzone while staying completely stealthed until help arrived. I can live with stealth classes getting first shot b/c they are sneaky. I can sort of live with the fact that they can disappear in the middle of a fight if they can just get a little distance. But being able to use abilities and not have them bring you out of stealth....complete BS. Flame away with l2p and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashanor Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's the same thing as sap on the Rogue in WoW, and both Shadow/Assassin and Scoundrel/Operative have it. It breaks on damage and can only be used from stealth on out of combat targets. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scinald Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's the same thing as sap on the Rogue in WoW, and both Shadow/Assassin and Scoundrel/Operative have it. It breaks on damage and can only be used from stealth on out of combat targets. Get over it. I didn't play WoW so I haven't been brainwashed like you to think it's okay. It's not. But thanks for meeting my expectations with a standard retort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehMerc Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Wouldn't be so bad if the ability had a cooldown or it actually had diminishing returns outside of the full resolve bar you get after getting hit twice with it. But yeah, it's pretty dumb in it's current incarnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenthum Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Doesn't it instantly fill a resolve bar to full..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I didn't play WoW so I haven't been brainwashed like you to think it's okay. It's not. But thanks for meeting my expectations with a standard retort. it's also the class' only pve cc not EVERYTHING is designed around pvp, and it gives you a full resolve bar meaning they cant open up on you with a knockdown shoot first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuietGoneJinn Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Just ran into what I assume was a Shadow (and I'm going to guess Assassins can do the same thing), who was able to alternate stuns on me and another person in a warzone while staying completely stealthed until help arrived. I can live with stealth classes getting first shot b/c they are sneaky. I can sort of live with the fact that they can disappear in the middle of a fight if they can just get a little distance. But being able to use abilities and not have them bring you out of stealth....complete BS. Flame away with l2p and such.Totally agree. I was playing a game, so a guy with basically 1 sliver of health. He entered his healing mode (Which prevents you from moving), I ran up to finish him. . .And he stealths. I know exactly where he is, he's right in front of me, I had him targeted, but I can't do a damn thing to him. They should at least allow some AOEs to shock them back to our plane of existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehMerc Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Except it doesn't do a full resolve bar until the second application, so you're stuck eating the first unless you're pretty confident you can get that stealth scan down where they're standing, otherwise you're stuck eating another without a cc remover while your now full resolve bar starts going down, opening you up to even more. It's not even remotely intelligently designed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STD_Skindancer Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Totally agree. I was playing a game, so a guy with basically 1 sliver of health. He entered his healing mode (Which prevents you from moving), I ran up to finish him. . .And he stealths. I know exactly where he is, he's right in front of me, I had him targeted, but I can't do a damn thing to him. They should at least allow some AOEs to shock them back to our plane of existence. if you aoe and hit him, he will get knocked out of stealth. if you dot him before he can stealth the first tick will tick him right back out of stealth. just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knifewrench Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 As the operatives will tell you for straggling... it is a team game. You are going to get cancelled out and put in a position where you're powerless. It's up to you to either blow your trinket followed by a proper reaction quickly enough or your teammate has to pick up the pieces. If it really bothers you that much, shoot something. You'll get into combat and it won't affect you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deshie Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Please tell me if this was on battle of Alderaan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehMerc Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 As the operatives will tell you for straggling... it is a team game. Yeah, I'm sure that makes sense somewhere. Anyways, as with ops and scoundrels, they'll either fix it or they won't. Probably won't seeing how things are going but eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belialle Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) They can't do that to you if you are in combat, you know. It's just crowd control, and those classes are very limited in how they can use it. They can't be in combat, you can't be in combat, and they have to be in stealth. Spec into stealth detection talents. Also, don't just stand around doing nothing. Move around unpredictably and you might just catch one in time to bring it out of stealth. If it didn't affect the resolve bar, I could see how someone could form a valid complaint about it. But....as it is? I don't believe your complaint is in any way valid. Why don't you try creating an operative just to see how much you rely on stealth to stay alive? It's how the class is built. We have tools to deal with stealthers. It's up to us to learn how to make the most of them. Edited January 20, 2012 by belialle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scinald Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 As the operatives will tell you for straggling... it is a team game. You are going to get cancelled out and put in a position where you're powerless. It's up to you to either blow your trinket followed by a proper reaction quickly enough or your teammate has to pick up the pieces. If it really bothers you that much, shoot something. You'll get into combat and it won't affect you. That last part is interesting b/c it was me and another trying to cap and "undefended" turret in Alderaan which means we weren't in combat. At the very least, then, the use of the ability should put me into combat. It apparently did not b/c he used it on each of us twice and then help came. As for the first part...it was me and another (reread what I originally said). Two people == team in my book. It was an excellent use of an ability on this person's part....and a really bad design decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redderic Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's the same thing as sap on the Rogue in WoW, and both Shadow/Assassin and Scoundrel/Operative have it. It breaks on damage and can only be used from stealth on out of combat targets. Get over it. also using it almost fills your resolve bar completely. simply blowing on your character to knock you back 1cm would fill it and make you immune to more cc. so saying that he was popping it back and forth on 2 of you is a gross exaggeration or a flat out lie seeing as how he can only do it to 1 of you at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scinald Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 They can't do that to you if you are in combat, you know. It's just crowd control, and those classes are very limited in how they can use it. They can't be in combat, you can't be in combat, and they have to be in stealth. Spec into stealth detection talents. Also, don't just stand around doing nothing. Move around unpredictably and you might just catch one in time to bring it out of stealth. If it didn't affect the resolve bar, I could see how someone could form a valid complaint about it. But....as it is? I don't believe your complaint is in any way valid. Why don't you try creating an operative just to see how much you rely on stealth to stay alive? It's how the class is built. We have tools to deal with stealthers. It's up to us to learn how to make the most of them. I have a Juggernaut....not exactly a stealth detection machine. I also have a Shadow I'm bringing up so I suspect I'll get to this ability eventually. And I'll abuse the hell out of it until somebody fixes it. As for survivability, I was under the impression that Shadows/Assassins can be tanks and Operatives/Scoundrels can heal. I would think that helps make up for some of the survivability issues you mention. Lastly, I appreciate the advice (even though some of you mean it in a less than nice way) and this is not the first time I've dealt with stealth classes in a game (I spent 3 long years fighting Witch Elves in Warhammer) so I'll figure out something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 These abilities are core rogue elements- it's the 'sap' ability from WoW. When you get hit with it, you SHOULD have a full resolve bar (unless the patch changed that). After that, you have until resolve clears. You can break it with the pvp trinket effect, and of course any damage breaks it. Generally, you can call for help if you are worried about it. The effect does not last that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehMerc Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 also using it almost fills your resolve bar completely. simply blowing on your character to knock you back 1cm would fill it and make you immune to more cc. so saying that he was popping it back and forth on 2 of you is a gross exaggeration or a flat out lie seeing as how he can only do it to 1 of you at a time. It's more than enough to delay a cap in alderaan easily. Sap the first, wait till the second's almost done capping, hit him, wait till the first is almost done and sap again, etc. A good operative or shadow will then keep them busy in combat until resolve bars are gone, get the dots off, and vanish, starting this over again. But meh, they've got some bigger pvp fish to fry at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scinald Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 also using it almost fills your resolve bar completely. simply blowing on your character to knock you back 1cm would fill it and make you immune to more cc. so saying that he was popping it back and forth on 2 of you is a gross exaggeration or a flat out lie seeing as how he can only do it to 1 of you at a time. Sweet...we got to the lying part. So there were two of us visible on the center objective. I tried to take it first and was staggered. He tried to take it next....staggered. I came out of it and was staggered again. And then he tried to take it again one more time and was staggered. To be exact, I panned around after the second stagger on me and so nobody visible. There may have been two of them, I cannot say that did not happen for sure. I can tell you we were both serial staggered and nobody appeared to be visible. I really suspect it may be a gear thing in combination with the inherent abilities of the stealther, but I haven't gotten my Shadow high enough to know yet. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I have a Juggernaut....not exactly a stealth detection machine. I also have a Shadow I'm bringing up so I suspect I'll get to this ability eventually. And I'll abuse the hell out of it until somebody fixes it. Again, this plays pretty much exactly the same way as WoW sap, except that it makes you immune to CC instead of just munging around one of your DRs (wow has multiple categories of diminishing return f or CC). In other words: not going anywhere. As for survivability, I was under the impression that Shadows/Assassins can be tanks and Operatives/Scoundrels can heal. I would think that helps make up for some of the survivability issues you mention. Right, but they have to be those specs to have that. You are correct that a tankasin or sawbones is reasonably survivable. so I'll figure out something. You will. It's a bit disorienting, but once you understand what's going on, you realize that it gives you a temporary advantage too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obbu Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Doesn't it instantly fill a resolve bar to full..? Yes, yes it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehMerc Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yes, yes it does. Fills it up about as much as a 4 second stun does. Which is about 10-15% shy of full. So no, you are susceptible to it twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Sweet...we got to the lying part. So there were two of us visible on the center objective. I tried to take it first and was staggered. He tried to take it next....staggered. I came out of it and was staggered again. And then he tried to take it again one more time and was staggered. If it doesn't fill the resolve bar, then yes, you'll have to chain this. It's similar to say, a dot class putting a bunch of 30 second stuff on you. I will say that, in general, preventing caps seems pretty trivial in this game. Most classes have some way to keep you disabled in that situation. Multiple shadows or whatever shouldn't make a difference in total time sapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acindo Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Just ran into what I assume was a Shadow (and I'm going to guess Assassins can do the same thing), who was able to alternate stuns on me and another person in a warzone while staying completely stealthed until help arrived. I can live with stealth classes getting first shot b/c they are sneaky. I can sort of live with the fact that they can disappear in the middle of a fight if they can just get a little distance. But being able to use abilities and not have them bring you out of stealth....complete BS. Flame away with l2p and such. Haha. They can only sap 1 target at a time. The instant they cast it on someone else it breaks on the first person and 2 fills your resolve. You and the other guy really didn't have a single AOE ability? Or you didnt stand closer together when you noticed what was happening so when he saps one the other will see him? You have no reason to complain. My absolute favourite thing to do is sap other people while they are still stealthed. So fun. Also I see you mention there might have been 2? You really think so? You think 2 guys are going to.. alternate saps? No. They would sap 1 each. Edited January 20, 2012 by Acindo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obbu Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Fills it up about as much as a 4 second stun does. Which is about 10-15% shy of full. So no, you are susceptible to it twice. Whenever i sap someone as an operative, they get a full resolve bar. Unless the shadow/assassin version is way better - this sounds like a bug to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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