Guzul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Yes. It's quite fair, thanks. Because you know what? Tanks and healers get into groups much easier than DPS. There's always a flood of people wanting to do damage(Most of them badly) So the tanks and healers have a much less painful time finding groups for flashpoints or guilds for raids. Fair? Life's not fair. Sorry babe. You don't play a tank do you? Why it will be only one to pay 100k or reroll an alt to meet the operative ratio. Btw how will he be able to gear his alt if there is only 1 tank for 5 dps. Remember you need 1 tank for 2 dps in a flashpoint. That mean the tank will gear quicker and they might stop doing flashpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 that makes no sense how i can heal well if im not spec into heals? the dual spec we want you can NOT change during COMBAT you can only be 1 spec not 2 at the same time you can only change it out of combat. ... Switching on the fly. I said switching on the fly. As necessary. IS POWERFUL. Out of combat, in combat. It doesn't really matter. Being able to fill two roles in a single operation at your discretion is too strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 that makes no sense how i can heal well if im not spec into heals? the dual spec we want you can NOT change during COMBAT you can only be 1 spec not 2 at the same time you can only change it out of combat. Are you purposely misunderstanding his point? Being able to flex roles in a group from Healer to DPS is a much bugger boost to utility than those who only have DPS options in their class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You don't play a tank do you? Why it will be only one to pay 100k or reroll an alt to meet the operative ratio. Btw how will he be able to gear his alt if there is only 1 tank for 5 dps. Remember you need 1 tank for 2 dps in a flashpoint. That mean the tank will gear quicker and they might stop doing flashpoint. /facepalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 now for any fight you have the ability to have 4 tanks,4 heals,8 dps. You also would not have a problem finding a tank or a healer for you alt group either. You need 2 tanks MAX in 16 man. So 2 of them need to respec or not raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolil Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I did, I suggest you re-read it. "Buff pure DPS damage and then I'll more than willingly accept the ridiculous utility boost the other classes will get." Some classes have two options, DPS and Heal or DPS and Tank. Others have DPS or DPS. Dual spec would give those with two different choice a huge utility leg-up (the ability to fill multiple roles in a group) while those classes with only DPS options are pretty much screwed. That is the 1st real argument in this thread against duel speccing. I agree, it would need some thinking, but that one problem doesn't mean that a solution can't be found. Just because something isn't going to be perfect the first time doesn't mean we shouldn't look for an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I did, I suggest you re-read it. "Buff pure DPS damage and then I'll more than willingly accept the ridiculous utility boost the other classes will get." Some classes have two options, DPS and Heal or DPS and Tank. Others have DPS or DPS. Dual spec would give those with two different choice a huge utility leg-up (the ability to fill multiple roles in a group) while those classes with only DPS options are pretty much screwed. have you not did any raids in this game? like i said last i check IA and Smugs can do very good damage and they bring a great buff to the group which is not supplied by anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaManoNera Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Why do people complain about lack of healers and tanks but are also opposed to dual spec? I hate leveling as a tank or healer. Would have no problem doing either role in a 1 hour flashpoint so every gets to see the content and gets gear without having to wait around for two hours. But I'm not going to blow hundreds of thousands of credits and mind numbing trips back and forth to the skill mentor to do it. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You don't play a tank do you? Why it will be only one to pay 100k or reroll an alt to meet the operative ratio. Btw how will he be able to gear his alt if there is only 1 tank for 5 dps. Remember you need 1 tank for 2 dps in a flashpoint. That mean the tank will gear quicker and they might stop doing flashpoint. I don't think "once I get the gear I need from a place I won't go back, even to help my guildes" is a strong argument for dual spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 have you not did any raids in this game? like i said last i check IA and Smugs can do very good damage and they bring a great buff to the group which is not supplied by anyone else. You are missing the point.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 that makes no sense how i can heal well if im not spec into heals? the dual spec we want you can NOT change during COMBAT you can only be 1 spec not 2 at the same time you can only change it out of combat. And you are in combat 100% of the time in flashpoints and operations? This fight we need more DPS so respec dps. fight over YOUR OUT OF COMBAT This next fight we need more healers so respec heas. fight over. YOUR OUT OF COMBAT This next one we need dps again. respec dps Thats what he means but you would bring hybrids over pure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 ... Switching on the fly. I said switching on the fly. As necessary. IS POWERFUL. Out of combat, in combat. It doesn't really matter. Being able to fill two roles in a single operation at your discretion is too strong. Then you agree BW need to change there boss fight to meet the 1:1:2 ratio? Since they don't right now the tank still need to go on the fleet pay 100k respec, but the points in the talents tree, come back to the operative, run back to the boss. After he kill the it, the next one you just need one tank. So he goes back to the fleet pay another 100k credit, points the in the talents, run back to the boss. It takes at least 5 min if the palyers is quick. Now do that 2 times. It's 10 min where everyone wait and do nothing and the guy pay 200k without counting the repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You are missing the point.... dual spec quad spec is not a problem in other games so how is it going to be a problem now? please show evidence of dual spec being a major problem i have NEVER seen a class get benched for being a certain class as of recent in any game with the feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolil Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 And you are in combat 100% of the time in flashpoints and operations? This fight we need more DPS so respec dps. fight over YOUR OUT OF COMBAT This next fight we need more healers so respec heas. fight over. YOUR OUT OF COMBAT This next one we need dps again. respec dps Thats what he means but you would bring hybrids over pure. Or you could put a long recast on it, make it an item you can only use on your ship... any number of ways to avoid this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 And you are in combat 100% of the time in flashpoints and operations? This fight we need more DPS so respec dps. fight over YOUR OUT OF COMBAT This next fight we need more healers so respec heas. fight over. YOUR OUT OF COMBAT This next one we need dps again. respec dps Thats what he means but you would bring hybrids over pure. thing is that is NOT how the raids even work so case closed we have never had a healer spec to dps not even once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 That mean the tank will gear quicker and they might stop doing flashpoint. This has nothing to do with duel-specs but is a guild issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolil Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) dual spec quad spec is not a problem in other games so how is it going to be a problem now? please show evidence of dual spec being a major problem i have NEVER seen a class get benched for being a certain class as of recent in any game with the feature. He is referring to the problem that whereas, say a Sage could have 1 spec for heals and 1 for DPS, the Gunslinger, Sniper, Sentinal and Marauder (I think they are the only ACs affected) are only able to DPS, nothing else. Edited February 5, 2012 by Tolil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I don't think "once I get the gear I need from a place I won't go back, even to help my guildes" is a strong argument for dual spec. I'm pretty sure you won't see a tank who will run the same flashpoint over 50 times for all his guildies becasue he is one of the few with that spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invitcted Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Being able to flex roles in a group from Healer to DPS is a much bugger boost to utility than those who only have DPS options in their class. You are technically correct, but your implication is wrong. There is mountains of evidence to suggest that dual speccing didn't give hybrids an unnecessary leg up or 'kill' pure dps classes in wow I would expect it to be the same in SWTOR. If your roled one of the two pure dps ACs in the game you knew what you were getting into it mean you liked to dps so much you would like the choice to do it in many different ways. People who rolled hyrbids did it for the utility. Besides in terms of this hypothetical ops argument; How many hybrids actually use their offspec on progression raid fights (remember you have to acquire and maintain two sets of gear to fulfill two different roles)? In my HM raiding guild on WoW I was the only off spec tank who actually had to tank progression bosses in the top 4 guilds on my server. Sure everyone had a hodge podge off spec set they pulled together from random drops but most people just used that trash for 5mans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 thing is that is NOT how the raids even work so case closed we have never had a healer spec to dps not even once. If you never had the need to have anyone in your group respec then why is it that you must have duels-specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 This has nothing to do with duel-specs but is a guild issue. Becasue you like running the same thing over and over again even if you don't need anything. I play to have fun. I like to kill bosses before gearing myself. But when you did the same thing over 50 times I think you might want to do something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I'm pretty sure you won't see a tank who will run the same flashpoint over 50 times for all his guildies becasue he is one of the few with that spec. Then you get a tank that will and kick him since hes not a team player. Why would you bring someone to an operation/flashpoint that will bail once he gets all his gear and wont help the others (that helped him) get theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) He is referring to the problem that whereas, say a Sage could have 1 spec for heals and 1 for DPS, the Gunslinger, Sniper, Sentinal and Marauder (I think they are the only ACs affected) are only able to DPS, nothing else. well this the thing ive played WoW and Rift both are games that offered this feature and i have never seen the problem people bring up as if they never played games with it. only time i see a certain class get benched was heroic death wing and only HIGH end guilds did that not your average guild they kept trying their way. other then that there is nothing wrong with this people just hate it for no reason with no proof. why would a guild stack certain classes when the gear drops which happen to me they do not have the class in the raid with them and it is a waste a huge waste at that. EDIT my first HM kill in EV the first boss he dropped 2 IA items we didnt have one in our group so it was wasted my friend had the same luck his first kill it was 2 BH helms and they did not have a BH in their group. Edited February 5, 2012 by genmyke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If you never had the need to have anyone in your group respec then why is it that you must have duels-specs. for the last time it is WANT feature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Then you get a tank that will and kick him since hes not a team player. Why would you bring someone to an operation/flashpoint that will bail once he gets all his gear and wont help the others (that helped him) get theirs. Ok so for you it's totaly normal the least played role in the game should dedicate himself for the guild until EVERY one is gear up. I mean everyone get bored after running the same thing over and over. You need to understand that, I know lot of ppl who quits after the have all their gear (I try to not raid with them). You should know that by now. So imagine the tank who help his guildies a lot but after a while he is tired to run same flashpoints. Can he takes a break or you kick him out of your guild? Edited February 5, 2012 by Guzul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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