50 Bracket Sucks

[Aden-Kad]

I'm casual.

 

There will always be competition gaps in an MMO that uses gear treadmills. Always. That's part and parcel. You can't get away from it. It doesn't have anything to do with casuals vs hardcores, or the existence of a 50 bracket, or expertise as a concept. Unless you devote your life to the game, you're going to run into situations where someone outgears you, and beats you because of it. Maybe he's even less skilled, making it particularly hard to swallow. That's life, sadly.

 

No, it doesn't make for amazing, competitive PvP. Yes, it turns everything into a bit of a mess. But it's really, REALLY not as grim as some people are making it sound. You'll still be able to play, and you'll still have some competitive games, and there's still fun to be had.

 

It ain't ever gonna be perfect, I'm afraid.

 

And you are correct, but as it stands it is nearly impossible for a casual to win which will discourage them leading to a decline in PVP population instead of growth. I'm all for more people PVPing and being fun not a chore getting rolled spending 4-5 hours a day waiting to eek out enough valor to gain a level grinding away to 60.

[Krylaancelo]

All I'm seeing is: I want to roll level 14 Guardians again!

 

Feel the pain. It's only going to get worse now that Imperial valor exploiters will be gaining BM gear and a hefty portion of Republic unsubbed.

 

/world's smallest violin

 

All I used to see (prior to patch 1.1) is people whining because they suck at leveling (it's not hard or long) and want to blame a PvP stat and/or level for their shortcomings.

 

See how I can do that too?

 

PvP at 50 is simply put: Not fun. If you actually were at level 50, you may have some idea of why we feel that way. I even win the *majority* of my warzones and I *STILL* am not having fun.

 

Simply put: Too much CC, heavy armor healers are unkillable [unless they're horribly undergeared or bad] even when focus fired, and low populations of 50s leading to playing the SAME people over and over and over again in the same premade groups.

 

Guess I'll level my alt up to 20 and start killing level 40s in WZs again.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Krylaancelo

[BloatedGuppy]

And you are correct, but as it stands it is nearly impossible for a casual to win which will discourage them leading to a decline in PVP population instead of growth. I'm all for more people PVPing and being fun not a chore getting rolled spending 4-5 hours a day waiting to eek out enough valor to gain a level grinding away to 60.

 

But it's NOT impossible to win. Goodness gracious, that's just ridiculous. I'm causal. I JUST hit 50. My gear is RUBBISH. I won plenty, and did pretty well too, and I'm by no means God's gift to PvP.

 

Most of the casuals are still farting around leveling up. More of them will get to 50, more of them will swell the bracket, you'll run into premades less often. Cross realm queues might come along. Premades might be segregated from PuGs. Lots of stuff can and might happen.

 

But you're still going to LOSE sometimes. You're still going to run into matches and players who just roll you due to gear advantage. That's just the way the game was designed.

[salamanderx]

The could probably add a "VALOUR" bracket later when enough have leveled up.

 

In any case the field will get more even with time. You have to accept that when ever you bracket some are still going to be at the top and some are going to be at the bottom. Hopefully most will be in the middle.

[satanica]

I find the PvP being fun in here, but after today I am not quite sure. Had some matches today and as level 50 I see I can get 3-4 shotted down because I lack the gear of course.

 

It's even more balanced for me playing with my level 17 against a 45-49 then it is 50 vs 50.

 

I mean, what the **** is that? lol

 

Now because I am undergeared I will struggle like a ***** to earn valor points.

 

Guess I continue play with my level 17 so I can about solo kill level 45+ for some balance then fighting my own level & actually have some fun.

 

Getting into pre-mades is not that easy when you just hit 50 and don't have the gear the teams want from you.

 

From a personal egoistic stand this plain sux, but that is my selfish stand on this. lol

 

Guess just play this untill GW2 comes out so one can play against ppl with same gear & skill matter over gear. Never thought I would consider dropping the game but... Sith happens as they say in general chat. lol

[Bajak]

This will be a very short-lived problem, given that even the curve of casuals is about to reach fifty within a week or so

[TillianZ]

What you can rip me on before reading my content.

1. I am valor 44 darn near full champion gear.

2. I roll in premades with battlemasters.

3. I am a sorcerer (might as well included it)

 

I did not like the changes they made to ilum and warzones yesterday. So I opted, apearantly unlike everyone else, to do something else. I went out and got all my datacrons. Yay.

 

So when it came time for my normal pvp gaming session, early am, where I normally face, some pretty good competition in pre-made republic groups, I queued up with two friends. Six hours later I still hadn't gotten a WZ.

 

Now you are going to tell me Imp vs Rep server imballance. Ok, I will give it to you. You are going to scream that by joining the Empire I knew I would have to face this (nope didn't.) You will probably find 10 other things to rip me for that I am not even intilligent enough as to have considered.

 

The solution comes, not just for Pub, but also for Emp, in cross server pvp. This has to happen. I am not saying just WZ's. Ilum needs to be made larger, needs to have the stupid npc fire fights turned off needs to have several starting locations that you choose from. It needs to have more strategic defensive and maybe offensive structures. It needs to have objectives and rewards of its own. And yes, it needs to be cross server as well.

 

There is no perfect pvp system for open world pvp, its darn near impossible. However, if you want to get some idea on both good and bad of pvp in open world format you should do some research on DAoC.

 

No I am not going to cancel my account, no this isn't the end of this game. Yes it was bad. PLEASE GOD DON'T roleback my 16 hours of datacron hunting... please....

Edited January 19, 2012 by TillianZ

[Laikacosmo]

What portion? How much is "hefty"? Can I see your stats? Where are you pulling your data from?

 

Any Republic loss from a PvP server is "hefty" and don't think all unsub threats are empty. Oh the hubris. My guild all unsubbed, several other people I know have as well. It will only get worse, especially considering the game caused EA's stock to drop 3% as of today per MarketWatch.

 

I applaud you for calling me on my numbers, but assuming that everything is honky-dory, you fail to back up YOUR claim...so...

 

yeah...

Edited January 19, 2012 by Laikacosmo

[Krylaancelo]

What you can rip me on before reading my content.

1. I am valor 44 darn near full champion gear.

2. I roll in premades with battlemasters.

3. I am a sorcerer (might as well included it)

 

I did not like the changes they made to ilum and warzones yesterday. So I opted, apearantly unlike everyone else, to do something else. I went out and got all my datacrons. Yay.

 

So when it came time for my normal pvp gaming session, early am, where I normally face, some pretty good competition in pre-made republic groups, I queued up with two friends. Six hours later I still hadn't gotten a WZ.

 

Now you are going to tell me Imp vs Rep server imballance. Ok, I will give it to you. You are going to scream that by joining the Empire I knew I would have to face this (nope didn't.) You will probably find 10 other things to rip me for that I am not even intilligent enough as to have considered.

 

The solution comes, not just for Pub, but also for Emp, in cross server pvp. This has to happen. I am not saying just WZ's. Ilum needs to be made larger, needs to have the stupid npc fire fights turned off needs to have several starting locations that you choose from. It needs to have more strategic defensive and maybe offensive structures. It needs to have objectives and rewards of its own. And yes, it needs to be cross server as well.

 

There is no perfect pvp system for open world pvp, its darn near impossible. However, if you want to get some idea on both good and bad of pvp in open world format you should do some research on DAoC.

 

No I am not going to cancel my account, no this isn't the end of this game. Yes it was bad. PLEASE GOD DON'T roleback my 16 hours of datacron hunting... please....

 

Please no cross-server anything. It is horrible. It completely destroys any semblance of a PvP community on the server.

[Skylerr]

And you are correct, but as it stands it is nearly impossible for a casual to win which will discourage them leading to a decline in PVP population instead of growth. I'm all for more people PVPing and being fun not a chore getting rolled spending 4-5 hours a day waiting to eek out enough valor to gain a level grinding away to 60.

 

TBH, if you actually pay attention you still earn quite a lot of valor (and coms) in matches even with a loss (depending on how you contribute, awards, etc).

 

There seem to be two factors that are really making valor leveling miserable post 1.1

 

1. Wait time between WZ pop has gone from like 1-5 minutes to 5-15 minutes.

 

2. Average WZ just takes longer... before 1.1 when I pugged against a battlemaster pre-made we got stomped hard (huttball/capture turret would take like 5m tops) but now, with a full ops of 50's, we actually put up a bit of a fight and the WZ drags on for the full time... we still lose but the loss takes 3x longer

Edited January 19, 2012 by Skylerr

[Roast-Beast]

I find the PvP being fun in here, but after today I am not quite sure. Had some matches today and as level 50 I see I can get 3-4 shotted down because I lack the gear of course.

 

It's even more balanced for me playing with my level 17 against a 45-49 then it is 50 vs 50.

 

I mean, what the **** is that? lol

 

Now because I am undergeared I will struggle like a ***** to earn valor points.

 

Guess I continue play with my level 17 so I can about solo kill level 45+ for some balance then fighting my own level & actually have some fun.

 

Getting into pre-mades is not that easy when you just hit 50 and don't have the gear the teams want from you.

 

From a personal egoistic stand this plain sux, but that is my selfish stand on this. lol

 

Guess just play this untill GW2 comes out so one can play against ppl with same gear & skill matter over gear. Never thought I would consider dropping the game but... Sith happens as they say in general chat. lol

 

 

you know they give out that pvp gear for free right?

[TheKroger]

I'd like to add a problem to the level 50 bracket, as a Jedi Sentinel, i find the game getting more and more redicules.

 

I've access to half the amount of medals that any other class has, i have no taunt or any heals - since they removed the medals for pots.

 

People now have so much hp that our damage no longer add up, in 50 only there are so many cc's that its simply impossible to kill anyone.

 

If they make 18k hp for everyone, and our crits are around 4k, it makes no sence.

 

Before the level 50 brackets, you got like 60 kills in a 15 min wz, now its closer to 10.

 

You just made hack and slash for pvpers.

 

Sucks.

 

And to add that i cant do **** as melee in Ilum just makes it even worse.

[DeeMoneyBig]

a few things I noticed yesterday:

 

- As a republic L50 that usually groups with 1-2 other people for WZs, I never waited more than 5 minutes yesterday. Most times the queue was up and a new WZ was available as I was leaving the old. Instant WZs.

 

- Imperials complaining about facing other imperials in Huttball is funny. Now they know what it is like to go up against unstoppable lightning and IA Stealth every WZ.

 

- The win/loss percentage increased yesterday as I was no longer forced to play with a bunch of low level rebs. As much as they say the teams should be balanced, I never saw it that way.

 

- The good Imperial groups on my server were still unstoppable with a Reb PUG. If you are geared, good, and playing with friends, you will win regardless.

 

 

I think the changes overall were good. Open world PvP on Ilum was fun to me and a nice change of pace compared to the same 3 WZs.

[BloatedGuppy]

Any Republic loss from a PvP server is "hefty" and don't think all unsub threats are empty. Oh the hubris. My guild all unsubbed, several other people I know have as well. It will only get worse, especially considering the game caused EA's stock to drop 3% as of today per MarketWatch.

 

I applaud you for calling me on my numbers, but assuming that everything is honky-dory, you fail to back up YOUR claim...so...

 

yeah...

 

I never said anything of the sort. I don't have any DATA, so I'm not going to make wild claims based on anecdotal experience. If more people would do the same, it would make internet forums a lot more tolerable.

 

I by no means think the game is perfect.

[XodoK]

OH MY GOD! This is friggin EPIC! Empire player QQing about loosing to Empire premade!

Dude, you just made my day, no you just made my WEEK!

 

You live pretty boring and pathetic life it seems, if some no-name on forums has made your day.

Just sayin'.

[TillianZ]

Krylaan,

 

I will not disagree that you can lose some of the competition, knowledge of the competition, and some of the fun when this occurs. However, I didn't get 1 match in 6 hours. I didn't have any of that anyways.

[BloatedGuppy]

Please no cross-server anything. It is horrible. It completely destroys any semblance of a PvP community on the server.

Honestly, I think I'd take competition quality over familiar faces. I know what you're saying, but that level of familiarity can only really exist in Open World PvP, where you can compensate for balance issues with raw numbers/scale/confusion.

 

Not that Open World PvP really works in a 2 faction system, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

[Aden-Kad]

TBH, if you actually pay attention you still earn quite a lot of valor (and coms) in matches even with a loss (depending on how you contribute, awards, etc).

 

There seem to be two factors that are really making valor leveling miserable post 1.1

 

1. Wait time between WZ pop has gone from like 1-5 minutes to 5-15 minutes.

 

2. Average WZ just takes longer... I've seen far fewer short matches because even the premades are slowed down a bit by facing off against full groups of 50s

 

I would love 5-15 minute waits, had 25-30 last night.

[MightyHalo]

For a new 50 the bracket blows. You might not even win a match facing premades with epic gear.

 

I know someone who solo qued who lost 10 games in a row yesterday, never winning a match.

[Mythicrose]

Davik's estate had a ~10 minute que to get a same sided pvp match last night for me. However, people concluding that all level 50 queues are going to remain long based on a single night should re-evalauate their opinions in a day or two. Take my server for example (and many, many others) where just about everyone was rushing for Ilum rather than queing for warzones. The queues are bound to become shorter as soon as Ilum is "fixed" for the fast valor gains by camping enemy graveyards and as people continually hit 50. It's unfortunate, but we have to eat a longer queue in the short term.

[Laikacosmo]

I never said anything of the sort. I don't have any DATA, so I'm not going to make wild claims based on anecdotal experience. If more people would do the same, it would make internet forums a lot more tolerable.

 

I by no means think the game is perfect.

 

Anecdotes make the world go round. Here's another:

 

Everything we see here, we saw in Warhammer Online. Deja vu.

 

The name has changed, but the faces remain the same...

Edited January 19, 2012 by Laikacosmo

[MightyHalo]

Do realms like wow for more options so we don't get stuck facing ridiculous premades.

 

With realms it easier to pair pre-mades with premades of the same type, and those are the only types of players that would be against realms since they might not win every time.

[Feztonio]

bummer for the folks who rushed to 50 and took advantage of facerolling lowbies to grind out gear, now only to be stuck with other geared 50's and the new 50's. low toons in pvp are awsome and engaging and totally enjoyable !!!

 

downer you rushed to 50 in three weeks.

 

the rest of us are enjoying this great game. it's light years ahead of anything else out there.. better than wow, than eq2, lord or the rings, whatever else is out there. i'm definitely glad i quit wow to play tor.

 

if you dont feel the same way, no hard feelings, just enjoy going back to wow or skyrim or whatever floats your boat. we don't care that you're QQ cancelling your sub

[signahead]

TLDR:

Level 50 PvP sucks now. Bracket screwed over the 50's.

 

I don't think I have a lot of sympathy for this.

 

I started PvP last week with a low-level character and before the matches even began I'd have level 50 players telling me to leave. Some of them would complain about my mere presence (and the presence of other low-level characters) over Ops chat for the entire match. Gameplay issues aside, it did not make the experience fun.

 

Now both groups have what we want. These elite players no longer have to worry about low-level characters ruining their chances for victory. And low-level players can queue up for warzones without getting griefed. In time, the gameplay issues will work themselves out as more players reach level 50 and that bracket expands. But yesterday's patch solved a social problem that was only going to get worse as more level 50s appeared in warzones.

Edited January 19, 2012 by signahead

[Dirtydurst]

while i understand the need for lower levels to not face level 50's in champion gear, i'm speaking from a level 50's perspective.

 

On my server, the majority of 50's are empire, so we get more huttball matches then anything else. Now this wouldn't be a problem, except one of the guilds is already battlemasters... They group up, and it's basically a 100% chance that they are going to win. Even if they are up against another premade.

 

While this bracket was necessary, it came to soon for the level 50 population. Our queues are way to long, and in the case of my server, if your playing during a certain part of the day, your going to end up facing the battlemasters...

 

My guild doesn't have enough 50's for operations, so pvp was the thing i was doing to keep myself entertained. I loved it. After two hours of pvp today, i dont ever want to pvp on my level 50 again...

 

Tldr:

Level 50 pvp sucks now. Bracket screwed over the 50's.

 

roll republic