Halofax Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Why did the original trilogy portray combat like a swordsman duel, The the prequels turned every jedi into a Ledy Gaga back up dancer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tek_Coronado Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The the prequels turned every jedi into a Ledy Gaga back up dancer? I shouldn't have lold as hard as I did with that mental image lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Because movie tech was limited in the 70s/80s? Besides even before the PT came out, the way Luke and Vader fought just didn't seem like what an actual jedi would do. The PT made the jedi seem more...how do I put this...they seem more...like jedi, the jedi invented their own fighting styles after all so the PT made it look they were actually using them instead of swining the sabers around. Edited January 18, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halofax Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Because movie tech was limited in the 70s/80s? Besides even before the PT came out, the way Luke and Vader fought just didn't seem like what an actual jedi would do. Have you ever seen an actual Jedi? I dont see what basis you use for comparison. A lightsaber is a sword. In the original trilogy they fought with swords. In the prequels they fight as though their lightsaber is a pair of nunchucks and CONSTANTLY reveal their back to the enemy. Look dude you dont want to do spinning cartwheels while fighting. It doesnt make you hit harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LrdStryfe Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan in Episode 3 is how I've always thought about saber combat whenever I read any of the Old Republic books. Especially some of Darth Bane's duels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Have you ever seen an actual Jedi? I dont see what basis you use for comparison. A lightsaber is a sword. In the original trilogy they fought with swords. In the prequels they fight as though their lightsaber is a pair of nunchucks and CONSTANTLY reveal their back to the enemy. Look dude you dont want to do spinning cartwheels while fighting. It doesnt make you hit harder. A lightsaber is weightless, the only thing that has weight is the hilt so yes they were like nunchucks in the sense the blade didn't have weight only the hilt did. Edited January 18, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halofax Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 The duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan in Episode 3 is how I've always thought about saber combat whenever I read any of the Old Republic books. Especially some of Darth Bane's duels. Those books didnt exist when the original trilogy was made. I love star wars. I dont like how Lucas doesnt seem to respect his own lore and ideologies. Hes a walking plot hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Have you ever seen an actual Jedi? I dont see what basis you use for comparison. A lightsaber is a sword. In the original trilogy they fought with swords. In the prequels they fight as though their lightsaber is a pair of nunchucks and CONSTANTLY reveal their back to the enemy. Look dude you dont want to do spinning cartwheels while fighting. It doesnt make you hit harder. Actually each Lightsaber form is based on different mixtures of Japanese and European Sword Fighting Forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halofax Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Actually each Lightsaber form is based on different mixtures of Japanese and European Sword Fighting Forms. Proof from somewhere that isnt a wiki written by star wars fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systematic_end Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Proof from somewhere that isnt a wiki written by star wars fans? the fact that george himself has stated that he was influenced by the films of akira kurasawa. go watch yojimbo and seven samurai and then watch the origional star wars films. you will be shocked.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halofax Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 the fact that george himself has stated that he was influenced by the films of akira kurasawa. go watch yojimbo and seven samurai and then watch the origional star wars films. you will be shocked.... That was a good rebuttle. Maybe if i watch them i will feel better about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Proof from somewhere that isnt a wiki written by star wars fans? Curious, Wookieepedia has been recommended by Authors and Leland Chee himself. And I didn't get my info from there, I just know from Ep. 1 "behind the scenes" clips. Ray Park(Ray Park) spoke about how he had to learn a little fencing for the scenes where it was just him vs Liam Neeson. We also see it allot used by Dooku. Makashi- is the closest form to Fencing. Many of the postures and moves are similar to fencing ones. Count Dooku used Makashi(Though, I'd look at Episode 2 more than 3.) Edited January 18, 2012 by BrandonSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newwb Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) because clogging the frame with special effects is the only way to make a compelling story Edited January 18, 2012 by newwb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_freefall Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I actually think Anakin vs obi-wan is a very well done fight. Its face to face lightsaber combat. Not much spinning and jumping around each other. They kick punch and throw each other. They do everything they can to win. The big flashy stuff was mainly jumping to different levels from what i remember, i mainly remember them just going toe to toe in combat without many silly jumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeluc Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I always hated the fight with Obi and Maul. Obi just saw his master killed and he was angry! Ready to kick some Sith as$, but instead of just 'whaling' on him, they go into this wonderfully choreographed 'dance'. Seeing Luke and Vader fight in ROTJ, when Luke was angry, THAT'S the type of fight I wanted to see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durzaka Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I always hated the fight with Obi and Maul. Obi just saw his master killed and he was angry! Ready to kick some Sith as$, but instead of just 'whaling' on him, they go into this wonderfully choreographed 'dance'. Seeing Luke and Vader fight in ROTJ, when Luke was angry, THAT'S the type of fight I wanted to see! Luke just repeatedly smashing his lightsaber onto vaders? Sorry, i loved the original fights, they had great emotion, but the prequel fights were just a type of fighting you dont see. And i expect a jedi to fight in a different way from a regular swordsman. And @the guy about exposing backs, research the lore behind lightsaber duels and why they do all of the moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMyland Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) "He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a Jedi trait." That's in regards to a kid who doesn't know what he's doing. Now apply that notion to actual, trained Jedi. These guys are countering moves the other hasn't even thrown yet. They're steps ahead in dreamy Force world versus the actual physical movement. Also why I love the Ani/Obi fight in III. These guys KNOW each others tricks inside and out, and they're still playing that game on top of that. It's an absolute mind ****. Versus the original trilogy where you had Luke, who was kinda sorta trained but not like he would have been in the old days (not to mention the scant amount of time he actually had to train)... and old men, one of whom suffers from severe physical duress. Yeah, there's going to be a difference in the fighting style. Edited January 18, 2012 by HMyland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talyn_Rahl Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 well tbh it's changed because in the original trilogy the combat was based around Kendo, which is about direct attacks, no extraneous movement. In the Prequal trilogy the combat is more based around Wushu, and the other chinese martial arts, which while being less effective in actual combat, look alot more flashy and 'cool' for big on screen fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinbale Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) The sword fights in EP IV were very static. they couldn't club the swords together like a pair of claymores. That battle was quite medieval and a bit Samuraiesque. Just like wielding heavy swords. In the prequels, sword fighting took a wide jump to Chinese and Asian martial arts. I'm doing chinese sword fighting myself and a lot of the moves are just standard tricks you learn in the beginning. For a weightless blade these moves are much more realistic than the heavy and slow moves from EP IV - VI. And about turning your back: Yes, you shouldn't do it, but sometimes it's better than getting off balance. So spin around and be ready for the next strike. By the way, a realistic fight would be comparably boring. I loved the fight sequence! So much action, so much fun! Edited January 18, 2012 by Trinbale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdAraujo Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 In A New Hope, Lucas asked the choreographer (Peter Diamond) to simulate a broadsword combat style. In the others movies, he changed his mind to a mix of lighter swords combat styles. There was a problem about how the fake sword they used to shoot was fragile and something like that too. Watch Empire of Dreams: The Story of the Star Wars Trilogy. There you will see more of this topic. As about wookieepedia, there are actually terms invented there that was later added to the canon star wars lore. Don't minimize community work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinbale Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) well tbh it's changed because in the original trilogy the combat was based around Kendo, which is about direct attacks, no extraneous movement. In the Prequal trilogy the combat is more based around Wushu, and the other chinese martial arts, which while being less effective in actual combat, look alot more flashy and 'cool' for big on screen fights. I wouldn't subscribe to that. While it is true, that Kendo strikes are devastating, the wushu way is to be quick and move around a lot. You do little cuts and slashes, which will hinder your opponent until he loses. With a light sabre this is more effective than brute force, which you don't really need with a light sabre. And while you do your devastating blow, I have hit you 2 or 3 times. But just a bit Edited January 18, 2012 by Trinbale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Axil- Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I also thought most of the prequel saber combat was pretty poorly choreographed. The flips and spinning were completely meaningless most of the time, and precognition doesn't account for it at all. I wish we had saber combat with the martial effectiveness of the first movies, and the flair and special effects of the prequels =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrockjew Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) I actually think Anakin vs obi-wan is a very well done fight. Its face to face lightsaber combat. Not much spinning and jumping around each other. They kick punch and throw each other. They do everything they can to win. The big flashy stuff was mainly jumping to different levels from what i remember, i mainly remember them just going toe to toe in combat without many silly jumps. I re-watched this scene just so I could have it fresh in my mind. at 1:40 the two of them are literally doing lightsaber spinning tricks while staring at each other. If the hilt of a lightsaber is the only part with any weight, spinning the weightless blade around wouldn't give it any additional heft or force. It's just silly. The Jedi lore draws (or at least drew) heavily from Samurai film and culture. Samurai don't spin katana blades around 15 times before swinging, the kata is usually very direct and lethal. The of the prequels EVENTUALLY has a section on lightsaber combat and how the prequels use lightsabers poorly. I know it even opens with the simple critique of why do Obiwan and his master draw their lightsabers when they 'sense' poison gas, but he gets further into it if you have the time to watch (in my opinion) genius via internetz. Edited January 18, 2012 by shamrockjew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdAraujo Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) I re-watched this scene just so I could have it fresh in my mind. at 1:40 the two of them are literally doing lightsaber spinning tricks while staring at each other. If the hilt of a lightsaber is the only part with any weight, spinning the weightless blade around wouldn't give it any additional heft or force. It's just silly. The Jedi lore draws (or at least drew) heavily from Samurai film and culture. Samurai don't spin katana blades around 15 times before swinging, the kata is usually very direct and lethal. The scene where they just spin the lightsabers I see as a more force intuition combat, where they are foreseeing every other maneuver and countering before it happens, in a loop. There is a combat scene on the book about Revan that explains a little bit this. He attacked a emperor guard, the emperor guard defended the attack and went to counter the follow up. Revan foresaw the counter of the follow up and managed to change the said follow up attack to kill the guard. In this scenario, the guard isn't force sensitive, he just went for the style counterattack, making it easier to Revan dispatch him. Edited January 18, 2012 by EdAraujo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazysam Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The duels in the OT were awefull and they are illogical in the prequel, end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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