Why be mediocre when you can be exceptional? How about some innovation?

[BobTheTeepo]

Sure, this is the first fully voiced MMO. There have been voiced over parts in numerous other games, but this game does it for just about everything except mission boxes. However, this doesn't really impact the game or the story quality IMO. It just replaces the quest text for some of the conversations in the game.

Perhaps, perhaps not. I'd argue that while it may not directly influence gameplay, that it does give people with short attention spans an easy way to get into the story and enjoy it (whereas in most games, you just click accept quest in a chat box and completely ignore story).

 

While I can respect that this may not be a huge innovation to you, it is an innovation and it is huge to a lot of people.

 

I don't really count the aliens as voiced since you still have to read their dialogue (unless you are fluent in wookiee ****** pinchy), but I'll give you that one.

Fair enough.

 

This falls under fully voiced, but the latter part is only partially true. Your choices (other than declining side quests) have virtually no impact on what happens later. The story will still be the same, but you might not get a letter (because you killed someone) or you might not get a few extra credits. It doesn't actually impact your class story at all.

While it may not have huge impact, it does have impact, for example:

If you choose to spare an enemy of Darth Baras' at the end of Nar Shadaa in the SW storyline, he shows up later

Not too much of a spoiler but you get the idea. So with respect, I don't think it's fair to say it falls under fully voiced. A certain aspect of it ties INTO fully voiced, but it is separate as a whole. And again, that IS innovation, even if it's not the innovation you're looking for.

 

his is completely unfinished. I won't count this as anything until it actually does something. The family system IMNSHO is completely hokey and nonsensical. How is my Sith Inquisitor related to my Jedi Knight when he is human and the inquisitor is a pureblood? No comprende. I would have much rather been able to give each character a unique surname.

Your Sith Inquisitor cannot be related to your Jedi Knight is in a separate faction, which it only counts within your own faction. I'm also willing to bet that it will have limits to make sure these things make sense (your brother isn't a twi'lek when you're human, that sort of thing). It's coming soon, and it was partially available at launch so it does count as -- yet again -- an innovative feature.

 

 

Your pets give you missions. Cool? I kind of feel like you're stretching for things to list off. This is really no different from getting a mission from a random NPC.

I'm starting to feel that you're only responding to the parts you like. Did I not mention you're also rewarded uniquely based on your relationship with that companion? Furthermore, honestly, unless you do not understand what innovation is, I don't have to stretch for ANYTHING. Because an innovation is an innovation, no matter how small, innovations do come in all shapes and sizes.

 

You listed a bunch of small stuff. I could do the same for any other game, but none of that really has an impact on the actual gameplay. At its core, this game doesn't innovate. It's the same as every other loot treadmill out there. It has a lot more fluff, yes, which is nice but doesn't amount to much in the long run. I'm not discounting the fluff, but it doesn't do it for me.

Fully voiced is small? Branching story that changes rewards based on your choices is small? UGH. It won't be large unless it satisfies what YOU want it to be in all honesty.

 

You may not like where it does innovate, but it DOES innovate, and it does so in large ways that me and others appreciate. So to be more clear AND fair, when you make your statement, you should say "it does not innovate in the areas I want it to" instead of "At it's core, this game doesn't innovate".

 

It may not hugely innovate gameplay, but gameplay isn't the ENTIRE game for everyone, story is far more important for me. So again, I'll repeat, you may not LIKE the innovations, or you may want different innovations more, but that does not mean that they are not innovations.

Edited January 18, 2012 by BobTheTeepo

[lowflyingmeat]

Agreed. This game at end game - which is arguably 50% of any MMORPG or more - is severely lacking any differentiating aspects when you compare it to other MMORPGs.

 

The whole "Yeah this game is innovative!" thing is true to an extent, when you're leveling. Other than that, it has nothing "innovative" about it.

 

 

You want some innovation? Ask Bioware to actually take a risk, like making combat different and not having the end raids turn out to 16 man op groups DPS/Tank/Healing stuff.

 

I realize it's too late for that, since the game is built on the "Trinity MMORPG model" of DPS/Tank/Healer. Sure you added dialog options in the Flash points, but the game is still completely linear. You guys could've done something about that linearity huh? It's what you guys are FAMOUS for....jeez.

 

 

Oh and for the general combat and world PVP, umm how about you take a risk and put a city or region that is RAIDABLE by the other opposing faction. It's really hard for me as an Imperial player to take PVP seriously when I cannot see where these Republic players live, it's a MMORPG after all.

 

There is so much potential, but all gone for the sake of "taking it the safe path". Coming from a company like Bioware, I'm a bit disappointed, you guys have always taken risks.

[BadgeredMushroom]

Sure there is something innovative in the endgame. Fully voiced story driven choice-enabled content. That IS innovative. It may not be the kind of innovation you want or like, but it sure works for me.

 

That does not exist. You are deluding yourself. I can choose to be dark side, light side, or neutral and the story ends the same exact way. Stop lying. I wish it actually impacted the outcome of the story, but it doesn't. If it did, I'd be praising that as well.

 

I don't doubt that people are going to roll an alt for the opposing faction, but after leveling both a knight and a consular to the level cap, I'm not doing another Republic character. I read/listened (yay subtitles!) to all the dialogue on my knight and I space-barred through it on my consular excluding the class-specific stuff. I don't find the value in repeating a majority of the content on the Republic side a third time for another few hours of unique story content.

[DevonDs]

For me this game is very innovative. This is the first game that really evokes emotion for me. Hating my overseer , feeling some attachment to the old couple who wants help. It's the first game to make laugh. It's more than just the voice acting, the whole game works together for me.

The sum if it's parts creates an experience that is very different than any other mmo.

[BobTheTeepo]

That's nice and all, but didn't start this thread to complain about a lack of fluff, even though that does exist. Why can't we sit in chairs again? Anywho, back on subject.

 

This thread is about the core mechanics of the game, specifically the end game, which is where the majority of the player base (excluding altaholics) will be spending their time. There is nothing even remotely innovative at the end game. It is a carbon copy of any of the myriad of loot treadmills currently out on the market.

 

Most of us are giving suggestions or supporting the ideas I outlined in the OP, not white knighting for BioWare. I'd appreciate it if you'd get on topic or stop trolling my thread. Thanks!

 

I'm going to suggest, that we all knew before buying the game (if we researched the product we were going to purchase, as all people should) that we all knew the focus would not be endgame. While again, that may be the area YOU want innovated, that does not mean that everyone agrees, and at the very least that does not mean the game was not innovative.

 

Honestly? You can't seem to accept our answers just because they disagree with you. Let me remind you, the OP does not ONLY talk about endgame.

 

Please innovate. Don't release nothing but operations and flashpoints. Use the IP to its fullest. Make open-world content for PvE/PvP players that is dynamic, engaging, and not grind-based. The longest-lasting content is player-impacted (dynamic) content, not scripted flashpoints and operations that we blow through in a fraction of the time you spent developing it.

 

"Please innovate" does not suggest ONLY TALK ABOUT INNOVATING END GAME PLEASE! In fact, you talk about a LOT of other areas you want innovated. You said that the game was not innovative, and I guess I have to be called a White Knight because I disagree with you (even though I haven't insulted you, yet you feel the need to insult me), but I was certainly not trolling.

 

You talked about wanting innovation, and that the game lacked innovation, I answered that you got innovation and that it has innovation. You just want innovation to occur in other areas.

[LaManoNera]

Having completed a class story and gotten to 50, I can honestly say I'd rather the millions of dollars spent on voice acting been spent on creating meaningful and long lasting game systems. Deeper, better space combat, a combat system that isn't sluggish and ruined by glitchy, unresponsive skills, better server technology that can allow more than 20 people on a planet, better performance in warzones, an end game PvP zone that isn't a complete and utter joke, social activities like races, gambling, decorating of and interaction with starships as a 10 year old MMO allowed you to do, etc.

 

I genuinely enjoyed my time with TOR but bottom line is the game tried to be the next KoTOR combined with the next "big thing" in MMOs and under-delivered on both accounts, which doubles my disappointment with the final product. BW and EA are simply too afraid to take risks.

[Darth_Conan]

We haven't even seen the first expansion or MAJOR patch yet. The people that used the exploits that were up at first ruined the game for themselves, so piss on them, but as for the rest, the game hasn't even been out a month yet and you're saying throw in the towel. Ridiculous. The only reason that didn't happen to WoW was because it was longer and harder to level up, but the quest and such were stupid and annoying and mostly completely pointless. I.E. Kill boars.

 

Too many whiners. Not enough ppl with imagination to see the potential.

[BobTheTeepo]

That does not exist. You are deluding yourself. I can choose to be dark side, light side, or neutral and the story ends the same exact way. Stop lying. I wish it actually impacted the outcome of the story, but it doesn't. If it did, I'd be praising that as well.

Can you just debate like a civil rational person when someone offers a logical opinion that they believe? You're insulting people just because they do not see things your way, and it reflects poorly on you AND your cause.

 

Next, you are the one with faulty information. It may not change the end of the story in a super massive way, but it does change it pretty well, for example (MAJOR SW SPOILER, WILL RUIN THE END FOR YOU)

You can choose whether or not to kill your master, which may be a ds/ls choice, is still a VERY hard choice to make. It also changes your standing with the Dark Council -- to an extent -- depending on your choice

 

 

I don't doubt that people are going to roll an alt for the opposing faction, but after leveling both a knight and a consular to the level cap, I'm not doing another Republic character. I read/listened (yay subtitles!) to all the dialogue on my knight and I space-barred through it on my consular excluding the class-specific stuff. I don't find the value in repeating a majority of the content on the Republic side a third time for another few hours of unique story content.

Key word with this entire paragraph, it's reused over and over again, "I".

 

Just because YOU feel a certain way, that does not mean EVERYONE ELSE feels the same way. I'm on my 2nd republic character and I'm enjoying taking different paths in the side quests -- not to mention I love the unique class stories.

 

To sum it up, please, start acting civil. You're being rude to those who disagree with you, and it really is not necessary.

 

EDIT: To be clear, I only read you TL;DR. I'm also only responding to responses on these last pages, so if your OP intended to say "only discuss end game" you might want to put that in your TL;DR. Also, if you want people to stop coming in and defending Bioware, back away from the "this game doesn't innovate at all" position, just my advice.

Edited January 18, 2012 by BobTheTeepo

[Ryzerion]

Still sounds lame IMO. It's just my opinion though you are free to have your own, just don't try to force it on me

 

It's only lame because SWTOR doesn't have it and I know for a huge fact you wouldn't think it's lame if they had it included any way.

 

People try to say LFG tools are lame, only because it's not in SWTOR and then when they decided to do something people thank'd them lmao.

 

Same thing with High Res textures, either way the B.D.F would of than'd them and said it was the best move over all even if it did have the issues.

 

Gotta love em

[BadgeredMushroom]

For me this game is very innovative. This is the first game that really evokes emotion for me. Hating my overseer , feeling some attachment to the old couple who wants help. It's the first game to make laugh. It's more than just the voice acting, the whole game works together for me.

The sum if it's parts creates an experience that is very different than any other mmo.

 

ALL OF WHICH ENDS AT THE LEVEL CAP. Including the companion missions. Including the "choices" you get while leveling. Including all the other fluff that doesn't amount to a hill of beans when it comes to actually gameplay.

 

The leveling experience is great. I get it. I like it a lot, too. The end game is completely lackluster and generic. This is the entire point of this thread. Focus on suggestions for end-game rather than highlighting the leveling process. We all know it's pretty neat.

[BadgeredMushroom]

I'm going to suggest, that we all knew before buying the game (if we researched the product we were going to purchase, as all people should) that we all knew the focus would not be endgame. While again, that may be the area YOU want innovated, that does not mean that everyone agrees, and at the very least that does not mean the game was not innovative.

 

Honestly? You can't seem to accept our answers just because they disagree with you. Let me remind you, the OP does not ONLY talk about endgame.

 

I disregard the majority of fluffy innovations because they do not impact the end game--the subject of this thread--in any way, fashion, or form. You bring up the fluff as some sort of defense of the game when it has nothing to do with this thread. I'd appreciate it if you'd focus on the subject at hand rather than the fluff.

 

"Please innovate" does not suggest ONLY TALK ABOUT INNOVATING END GAME PLEASE! In fact, you talk about a LOT of other areas you want innovated. You said that the game was not innovative, and I guess I have to be called a White Knight because I disagree with you (even though I haven't insulted you, yet you feel the need to insult me), but I was certainly not trolling.

 

You talked about wanting innovation, and that the game lacked innovation, I answered that you got innovation and that it has innovation. You just want innovation to occur in other areas.

 

The entire post is about end-game content preceded by some praise for the leveling content. Reading comprehension helps. The end game has no innovation at all. Like I said in the original post, it makes me feel like I'm back to playing all of those other games I quit for the same exact reason. I don't want to quit this game because I see the potential in it and I want to do everything I can to push BioWare to actually make something special of the end game rather than follow in the same mistakes as Rift and every other loot treadmill out there.

 

Focus on the subject at hand or just leave. This is my last reply to you.

[Twixted]

The game has room to grow into a great game even using these rehashed mechanics

( stats on gear and the holy trinity of classes)

 

Personally i am tired of those mechanics,but they are proven to fuel subscriptions so they continue to be revisited. Some mechanics i wanted to see in an MMO are

 

this video shows mechanically what i am looking for, jsut ignore the 2009 graphics. This game died but i believe it was largely due to how it was released.

 

http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/usermovies/312021

 

 

The game's skill deck system with FPS targeting and the fact that it got rid of the need for the trinity of classes was very interesting.

 

I think the replay behind things like CCG's and games like table top warhammer are better than replay value being based on getting better gear. Designing games around the trinity will always have the healer class standing in the back staring at health bars.

 

 

Knowing all this i still had hopes for this game in some aspects, that with further development would greatly enhance the game.

 

Alignment system: currently feels unfinished. A players alignment doesnt feel like it affects the story very much. A jedi consular story is on the same rails no matter if he chooses all light sided options or if he chooses all dark side options. The story could have branched at key points based on the players decisions, what companions are available could be based on alignment or on certain decisions.....

 

Companion system: Currently to static. your companions are set it stone from level 1. No matter what AC class you choose, no matter what alignment you go, no matter what you do this is set. They could have developed 4 companions per AC or atleast had 8 companions per class, but only 4 total available. What 4 you got based on the choices you made through the story.

 

Space combat: has a lot of room to grow. nothing more needs to be said. its a decent mini game.

 

 

As it it this game feels like a "choose your adventure" book with a lot of pages missing. The potential is there, and it was worth my purchase, jsut not worth my monthly fee.

[BadgeredMushroom]

The only reason that didn't happen to WoW was because it was longer and harder to level up, but the quest and such were stupid and annoying and mostly completely pointless. I.E. Kill boars.

 

I distinctly remember having to kill some random creature on Tython and smash their eggs because they might become overpopulated. That seems to me just as trivial and mundane as killing some boars to make a stew for some random NPC.

 

Too many whiners. Not enough ppl with imagination to see the potential.

 

I see the potential, and I want to push BioWare to realize that potential and at least put half as much effort into the end game as they did with the voice acting and leveling content. White knighting will do you, me, nor the game any good.

[Perinn]

'I Raced to 50 and now im bored'

 

Thats all i got out of this...

[Abriael]

That does not exist. You are deluding yourself. I can choose to be dark side, light side, or neutral and the story ends the same exact way. Stop lying. I wish it actually impacted the outcome of the story, but it doesn't. If it did, I'd be praising that as well.

 

First of all, the fact that the final outcome of the story doesn't change doesn't mean that several details don't. They do. As others in this thread already told, and this *Is* an innovation. Whether you like it or not is completely irrelevant.

 

Secondly, the outcome of some flashpoints *does* change with your choices, and those flashpoints *are* present in the endgame as hardmodes.

 

More endgame only flashpoints are going to be added (the first tomorrow, and we already know it's going to be story-driven). So the format is definitely innovative and it *does* apply to the endgame.

 

Sorry, but the one that's deluding himself is not me. You're just deciding that a factual innovation is not an innovation just because it doesn't fit your taste.

 

I don't doubt that people are going to roll an alt for the opposing faction, but after leveling both a knight and a consular to the level cap, I'm not doing another Republic character. I read/listened (yay subtitles!) to all the dialogue on my knight and I space-barred through it on my consular excluding the class-specific stuff. I don't find the value in repeating a majority of the content on the Republic side a third time for another few hours of unique story content.

 

You =/= Everyone =/= The Majority. What doesn't work for you, will very possibly work for others.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Abriael

[BobTheTeepo]

I disregard the majority of fluffy innovations because they do not impact the end game--the subject of this thread--in any way, fashion, or form. You bring up the fluff as some sort of defense of the game when it has nothing to do with this thread. I'd appreciate it if you'd focus on the subject at hand rather than the fluff.

 

 

 

The entire post is about end-game content preceded by some praise for the leveling content. Reading comprehension helps. The end game has no innovation at all. Like I said in the original post, it makes me feel like I'm back to playing all of those other games I quit for the same exact reason. I don't want to quit this game because I see the potential in it and I want to do everything I can to push BioWare to actually make something special of the end game rather than follow in the same mistakes as Rift and every other loot treadmill out there.

 

Focus on the subject at hand or just leave. This is my last reply to you.

 

As I put in my edit, I only read the TL;DR, which did NOT make it clear that this was only about the end game. So I'll stop, but if people -- unfairly -- attack the WHOLE game saying it ALTOGETHER lacks innovation then I will be sure to correct them on that. Just to help you learn how to avoid future misunderstandings like this (with people who only read TL;DR), remember, the TL;DR is supposed to sum up the entire first post, you never made it clear the only discussion was about end game IN THE TL;DR.

 

Here's how I would improve end game (regarding open world PvP):

 

Each day a certain planet that is contested (so no Coruscant/Tython/Ord Mantell/Korriban/Nal Hutta/Drommund Kaas), becomes a different kind of contested ground (For example, even though Hoth has contested areas, add a new area to Hoth) where a certain part of that planet becomes a battle for control over it.

 

So like, on wednesday at 5 PM (for EVERYONE, 5pm in Europe, not 5pm in America) Tatooine becomes the contested battleground. All players are given notice that Tatooine is opening up for a major battle and are directed to where to go on Tatooine to get to it. They fight (for say, control of a central objective, like an objective or something), one defends (whoever owned it last) one attacks (whoever does not own it).

 

After say, 2-3 hours the event ends, whoever won gets a FACTION WIDE bonus. Now say, 7 planets become true warzones (Hoth, Corellia, Tatooine, Belsavis, Balmorra, Alderaan, and Taris). So each day at 5PM-8PM people battle for a bonus that affects everyone in the faction. Let's say the bonus is 5% extra damage in PvE, if Empire owns 3 planets and Republic owns 4 then the empire gets 15% extra PvE damage and the Republic gets 20%. Also perhaps good Valor EXP for each player kill?

 

Now, let's say Empire outnumbers republic 2-1 on a server, the battleground on each planet would have to be regulated. So like, the Empire CAN outnumber the republic, but only up to a certain amount (say 10 people), everyone who wants in joins a queue. So every time the republic gains one more person, everyone is moved up in the Empire queue by 1. This will also help to get people to roll republic.

 

TL;DR:

Every day at a certain time (my suggestion 5-8PM in Europe AND America separately), certain areas created by Bioware can open up for faction v faction PvP. To ensure balance, one side cannot outnumber another side by more than 10, if one side does, the people who haven't already joined on that side must join a queue (that moves up as the other side gains players).

 

The planets Hoth, Corellia, Tatooine, Belsavis, Balmorra, Alderaan, and Taris would each have their own contested grounds. Each one would open up once a week (all 7, so once a day we'd have the PvP). For every planet your side controls, you get 5% PvE damage boost (or something similar), as well as Valor EXP being boosted for all people participating. Whoever had it last defends whatever objective Bioware makes, whoever didn't have it has to attack.

 

In conclusion, I'd like to say that although this would take a LOT of time to implement, it could give the game a life of it's own. It would make a LOT of endgamers stick around, and PvPers I'm sure would be thrilled.

[BadgeredMushroom]

'I Raced to 50 and now im bored'

 

Thats all i got out of this...

 

You might try reading before posting.

 

I'm not complaining about a lack of content, but the lousy end game design in general. You will be there one day too, and unless your idea of fun and engaging content is repeating the same dailies/operations/flashpoints ad nauseum for the next few years, you'll have the same complaints.

 

Less white knighting, more actual conversation. Thanks!

[Abriael]

You might try reading before posting.

 

I'm not complaining about a lack of content, but the lousy end game design in general. You will be there one day too, and unless your idea of fun and engaging content is repeating the same dailies/operations/flashpoints ad nauseum for the next few years, you'll have the same complaints.

 

Less white knighting, more actual conversation. Thanks!

 

I'll make you aware of the fact that pointing out obvious flaws in your arguments fully qualifies as "actual conversation".

Edited January 18, 2012 by Abriael

[BadgeredMushroom]

Here's how I would improve end game (regarding open world PvP):

 

Each day a certain planet that is contested (so no Coruscant/Tython/Ord Mantell/Korriban/Nal Hutta/Drommund Kaas), becomes a different kind of contested ground (For example, even though Hoth has contested areas, add a new area to Hoth) where a certain part of that planet becomes a battle for control over it.

 

So like, on wednesday at 5 PM (for EVERYONE, 5pm in Europe, not 5pm in America) Tatooine becomes the contested battleground. All players are given notice that Tatooine is opening up for a major battle and are directed to where to go on Tatooine to get to it. They fight (for say, control of a central objective, like an objective or something), one defends (whoever owned it last) one attacks (whoever does not own it).

 

After say, 2-3 hours the event ends, whoever won gets a FACTION WIDE bonus. Now say, 7 planets become true warzones (Hoth, Corellia, Tatooine, Belsavis, Balmorra, Alderaan, and Taris). So each day at 5PM-8PM people battle for a bonus that affects everyone in the faction. Let's say the bonus is 5% extra damage in PvE, if Empire owns 3 planets and Republic owns 4 then the empire gets 15% extra PvE damage and the Republic gets 20%. Also perhaps good Valor EXP for each player kill?

 

Now, let's say Empire outnumbers republic 2-1 on a server, the battleground on each planet would have to be regulated. So like, the Empire CAN outnumber the republic, but only up to a certain amount (say 10 people), everyone who wants in joins a queue. So every time the republic gains one more person, everyone is moved up in the Empire queue by 1. This will also help to get people to roll republic.

 

TL;DR:

Every day at a certain time (my suggestion 5-8PM in Europe AND America separately), certain areas created by Bioware can open up for faction v faction PvP. To ensure balance, one side cannot outnumber another side by more than 10, if one side does, the people who haven't already joined on that side must join a queue (that moves up as the other side gains players).

 

The planets Hoth, Corellia, Tatooine, Belsavis, Balmorra, Alderaan, and Taris would each have their own contested grounds. Each one would open up once a week (all 7, so once a day we'd have the PvP). For every planet your side controls, you get 5% PvE damage boost (or something similar), as well as Valor EXP being boosted for all people participating. Whoever had it last defends whatever objective Bioware makes, whoever didn't have it has to attack.

 

In conclusion, I'd like to say that although this would take a LOT of time to implement, it could give the game a life of it's own. It would make a LOT of endgamers stick around, and PvPers I'm sure would be thrilled.

 

Very similar to what I proposed for PvP. There'd have to be a PvE alternative too, but that's a great start. There could be more objectives that provide long-term benefits (such as schematics, legacy XP, etc.) that would be useful outside of simply taking that damage bonus into raids a well.

 

Imagine a PvE scenario similar to what you described where the opposing faction's NPCs randomly siege a part of a planet, coming in on dropships (similar to how NPCs spawned in Tabula Rasa) and causing all kinds of problems for your faction. Things like this would add some spice to the game and would make the world feel more alive as well.

[Slightlycampana]

It actually is pretty easy to do. This is what makes me so angry with the genre in general. Few people are trying to do anything innovative at all, and when they do they don't utilize it to it's full potential. See Rift for a perfect example of what I mean when I say wasted innovation.

 

Or if they do, they don't have the resources/expertise to make it work.

 

This game at end game - which is arguably 50% of any MMORPG or more - is severely lacking any differentiating aspects when you compare it to other MMORPGs.

 

The whole "Yeah this game is innovative!" thing is true to an extent, when you're leveling. Other than that, it has nothing "innovative" about it.

 

This.

 

I think the only way BW can make something out of this game is to implement ways that a) draw a server community together and b) allow more cosmetic character customisation options. For instance, make crafting into an end game. Implement some kind of territory control, or evolve the story so that cumulative player decisions take their server in one storyline direction or another.

[BadgeredMushroom]

I'll make you aware of the fact that pointing out obvious flaws in your arguments fully qualifies as "actual conversation".

 

Fluff has nothing to do with end game, so no, it doesn't. You're coming into a thread about end game content and defending the blandness by invoking the neat features we get to experience while leveling. We all know how fun leveling is (at least the first time).

 

Feel free to get on topic whenever you want. Until then, you don't exist.

[Twixted]

As long as you use the trinity in class design and have stats / attributes on gear you will change in effect very little.

 

An example maybe a bad one would be dragon ball Z. the first time through "WOW super sayian" then you have to ramp up the epicness you get super sayian 2, then super sayian 3, etc etc. Once the story has evolved to super saiyan 4 you cant go back to telling anything less.

 

Now apply that "super sayian" to gear. This is fuel of this genre's mechanics. Gett new epic gear so i can achieve "super sayian" 4 and take on cell or whatever.

 

Its never ending, its the only replay available.

[BadgeredMushroom]

As long as you use the trinity in class design and have stats / attributes on gear you will change in effect very little.

 

An example maybe a bad one would be dragon ball Z. the first time through "WOW super sayian" then you have to ramp up the epicness you get super sayian 2, then super sayian 3, etc etc. Once the story has evolved to super saiyan 4 you cant go back to telling anything less.

 

Now apply that "super sayian" to gear. This is fuel of this genre's mechanics. Gett new epic gear so i can achieve "super sayian" 4 and take on cell or whatever.

 

Its never ending, its the only replay available.

 

I don't think the two are joined at the hip. Trinity design is easy to work with, as is the loot treadmill. They're both paths of least resistance and lazy developers will use them both simultaneously in a futile attempt to out loot treadmill the king of loot treadmills.

 

There have been many other games that used the trinity but had alternatives for content at the level cap. Galaxies, for example, had a wide open "end game" for players that did include some raiding but that wasn't the sole focus of the game. Earth and Beyond didn't have the trinity but it did have a loot treadmill system in place. Same with Tabula Rasa.

[Twixted]

I don't think the two are joined at the hip. Trinity design is easy to work with, as is the loot treadmill. They're both paths of least resistance and lazy developers will use them both simultaneously in a futile attempt to out loot treadmill the king of loot treadmills.

 

There have been many other games that used the trinity but had alternatives for content at the level cap. Galaxies, for example, had a wide open "end game" for players that did include some raiding but that wasn't the sole focus of the game. Earth and Beyond didn't have the trinity but it did have a loot treadmill system in place. Same with Tabula Rasa.

 

I did not experience those games, so you have more experience than me.

 

I agree the two mechanics are not joined at the hip. Most commonly i think they are right? have you read my previous post about different actual mechanics?

 

So what drives "replay" outside of new gear for a scaled up "boss" is what the thread is really looking for.

 

My point was that as long as stats are on gear you always have to ramp up the damage, health of new content, which requires new stat levels ( gear ) to complete. I dont see this cycle ending.

 

Games using these mechanics have to offer that plus alternatives. Maybe for this game it would be alternate stories are unlocked, giving players a better reason to revisit planets. Maybe more companions to unlock another idea.

 

Games have tried some of the ideas you listed, like making planets PVP and being able to take over a planet. However this is exploited by faction / server imbalances. Leads to people complaining they never get to see or experience that content, which ends up with no one ever using the system. ( I imagine Illum is like this for empire players or getting there)

[I_Sithed_MyPants]

These forums move faster than a Jawa chasing a bag of credits in a sandstorm. Yeesh.

 

These forums move faster than the vote page on 9gag...9gaggers will get it