Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Veluthurk]

No, no and no.

[Thaolin]

It vexes me, why you would need DPS meters.

 

That is all I want to see, is the same ghastly build and mods on everyone of the same class.....

 

It is a pity that most of you can't do your own math, and certainly can't play a game without your own intuition.

Even if you are an elitist, and I am, you should be able to usurp legitimate bad assness, without the use of mods and meters.

Is it not bad enough, that we get spoon fed our raid gear and level grinding? (50 in 30 hours...8 person raids ROFLMAO, you are worthless)

95 percent of you lack the intellect to play an MMO efficiently, to begin with.

98 percent of you don't even deserve to play a BioWare RPG. Period.

 

and less than 1 percent of you, would actually make a feasible use of DPS mods/meters.

[Nexdine]

This all comes down to what the aim of the player is.

 

If you're an obsessive overachiever and are in it just to win on a downright unhealthy level, you'll love the idea of being able to scrutinize every bit of math that every player character does. Then you can just ignore all the other things about the game - whether or not the player is a fun guy/girl to hang out with, whether or not they are having fun, whether or not you are having fun... for people like that it will be all down to the tiniest stats and if someone doesn't perform to perfection, they can be kicked off and gotten rid of in favor of some other rabid powerplayer.

 

The rest of the people who actually bought the game to play and have fun with probably think, like I do, that the idea of getting a laundry list that's Excel-like in its precision on exact damage/heal/blah blah is a bad idea. It doesn't promote fun playing or social interaction, it promotes a robotic-like obsession with the perfect stats.

 

There was a question in the start if I'd rather be kicked off the team for documentedly poor DPS or because someone didn't like my armor type... I'd rather not get kicked off the team by some obsessive jerk in the first place, does that choice exist?

[Daggerhowl]

... We're figuring out fights without having to look at a log...

 

This is essentially what I am preaching as well.

Even when is not an "operation" scenario, I was having a hard time with the final boss of one of the chapters in the Consular Class' quest, essentially because I got there too fast and was way under the recommended level.

Out of frustration (mea culpa) I went to Youtube and looked how other people were fighting that boss. I found that 1) They were at the right level to face the boss, 2) They were doing pretty much the same that I was doing. However, I didn't give up and went back to face the boss. This time I realized that there were elements in the room that I could use to my advantage, and that no one of the posters of the Youtube videos, either used or even realized being there. Once I made smart use of these elements the fight became doable and one-shot the boss with pretty much 75% of my health up. I didn't complete the challenge using "brute force" DPS, I just thinked and looked around, instead of giving up or keep banging my head stubbornly trying to use what the videos of Youtube were suggesting.

[DaxRendar]

This all comes down to what the aim of the player is.

 

If you're an obsessive overachiever and are in it just to win on a downright unhealthy level, you'll love the idea of being able to scrutinize every bit of math that every player character does. Then you can just ignore all the other things about the game - whether or not the player is a fun guy/girl to hang out with, whether or not they are having fun, whether or not you are having fun... for people like that it will be all down to the tiniest stats and if someone doesn't perform to perfection, they can be kicked off and gotten rid of in favor of some other rabid powerplayer.

 

The rest of the people who actually bought the game to play and have fun with probably think, like I do, that the idea of getting a laundry list that's Excel-like in its precision on exact damage/heal/blah blah is a bad idea. It doesn't promote fun playing or social interaction, it promotes a robotic-like obsession with the perfect stats.

 

There was a question in the start if I'd rather be kicked off the team for documentedly poor DPS or because someone didn't like my armor type... I'd rather not get kicked off the team by some obsessive jerk in the first place, does that choice exist?

 

You have far too much common sense for this thread!

[ChaosDogg]

Yea .... no.

 

Why are there so many posters making generalized statements that people who like using recount are robots or those who just want to spam damage meters without actually using it the right way?

 

The analogy to ******* in WoW battlegrounds fighting on a road but being top on damage makes no sense. That's an incorrect use of the tool because those ******* aren't doing what they're supposed to. If you want to compare yourself to other people, you look at those in the same situation as you. The job analogy which shopkeeper posted is good because it has two people doing the same job.

 

I also do not understand the sentiment that if you want recount you're a robot and everyone else is having fun. Maybe some people actually have fun looking for the optimal builds/stats/priorities when they are focused on endgame and actually like having perfect play. Just because you don't share the same notion of fun doesn't invalidate someone else's.

 

A combat log should be an optional part of the game no question. Take the example from the opening post. If someone is hindering the group because their dps is important and the group cannot progress further with them slacking, then using recount and telling them off or kicking them is fair use, I think (after all it isn't fair to the other players in the group when you waste their time). What many people seem to forget about the little things that separate a good player and a great player is that the better player will be able to execute the fight correctly while being a top performer damage wise and such. You can also tell what people did wrong in recount because the one in WoW shows interrupts, damage taken and death logs so the argument that recount can't show other aspects of play is wrong.

[Worfius]

Yes.

Put Recount but allow players to toggle it on and off and to chose who can see your dps with option show to me, show to party, show to raid.

And i think problem would be solved. Those who like to raid in raid guilds which need dps for better coping with hard modes/nightmare they will have their option and others will have their own option or turn it off.

 

At least give in game "my own recount" so i could know what i am doing. This way you could know what are you doing wrong and what you need to change.

[noodlehaus]

Made a thread in the suggestion box section for a proposed solution:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=367882

 

---

 

Problem:

 

1. Players want to have info on how they're performing damage-/healing-wise

2. Players don't want to be discriminated in runs because of these meters

 

Solution:

 

Put the DPS meters on the training dummies (overhead, holographic). Make the meter visible to everyone, BUT don't put them anywhere else.

 

1. Want to audition a recruit? Watch them whack that dummy and pump up the meter.

2. Want to see if your rotation/build is good? Just keep beating that dummy.

[ConanArthurLager]

What will a sophisticated combat log give? Numbers.

 

What do these numbers tell? Well that depends. Even with such tools people will continue guessing their performance. Most skills (defensive, healing and offensive) have a potential (a minimum value up to a maximum value). This potential depends on several factors (e.g. crit rate, crit modifier, damage modifier, etc.).

 

What are most people doing? They take the numbers from a single run and think they are that good. They may be neglecting that they might have had a lucky day. Or they optimized their rotation against a single type of enemy and their gear hides that they do worse against other enemies. Sometimes numbers just give the illusion of certainty. I doubt that a lot of players are going to do a sphisticated statistical analysis of the data provided by such tools. Especially considering data from multiple runs (a lot of runs!). So they could be sure that their decision (concerning gear, rotations and build) are statisctically significant.

 

 

p.s.

Please. If you use such tools then learn to use it (i.e. interpret the numbers). Don't just do MAX(highest DPS number from a previous run | current run's DPS number). And don't use this arbitrary number to discriminate your fellow players.

[livnthedream]

Made a thread in the suggestion box section for a proposed solution:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=367882

 

---

 

Problem:

 

1. Players want to have info on how they're performing damage-/healing-wise

2. Players don't want to be discriminated in runs because of these meters

 

Solution:

 

Put the DPS meters on the training dummies (overhead, holographic). Make the meter visible to everyone, BUT don't put them anywhere else.

 

1. Want to audition a recruit? Watch them whack that dummy and pump up the meter.

2. Want to see if your rotation/build is good? Just keep beating that dummy.

 

 

the problem with your solution is its a terrible one. we already have much better solutions available for both build tweaking and priority system determination.

 

having feedback in real time, or close to real time, is key. for both players and the raid mobs themselves.

 

also, taking away the "right" to discriminate is frankly impossible. are there players that i outright dont want to group with for whatever reason, i wont. and yes, there are those players that i frankly refuse to carry.

[TheSkate]

the problem with your solution is its a terrible one. we already have much better solutions available for both build tweaking and priority system determination.

 

having feedback in real time, or close to real time, is key. for both players and the raid mobs themselves.

 

also, taking away the "right" to discriminate is frankly impossible. are there players that i outright dont want to group with for whatever reason, i wont. and yes, there are those players that i frankly refuse to carry.

 

Typical "I NEED meters" response. Unless it involves adding group/ops wide meters to the game you people say it sucks.

 

If you have a decent build and rotation who gives a frack what your real time dps is? NOT MOST OF US. That's who.

 

What do you do with a meter when someone doesn't have an AoE attack and there are many packs of multiple mobs in the ops? You say they suck because their overall DPS isn't as high as yours, even though when it really counts they have just as high or higher DPS than you.

 

This game does not need real-time public meters.

[livnthedream]

Typical "I NEED meters" response. Unless it involves adding group/ops wide meters to the game you people say it sucks.

 

If you have a decent build and rotation who gives a frack what your real time dps is? NOT MOST OF US. That's who.

 

What do you do with a meter when someone doesn't have an AoE attack and there are many packs of multiple mobs in the ops? You say they suck because their overall DPS isn't as high as yours, even though when it really counts they have just as high or higher DPS than you.

 

This game does not need real-time public meters.

 

no, morons say dps suck in aoe vs single target. i personally cant help that other than to show WHY thats a stupid assumption to make. in general any sim, assuming its calibrated correctly, will give you a much better result when determining spec and/or priority. dummies in particular are terrible for anything other than practice due to them being statistically insignificant.

 

real time info would be nice, but i agree, not required. meters in general are. meters, when used correctly, can be fun as well as useful. having quick and easy access to other info, like who took damage from what, got interrupts, what killed who and how, etc are all very important for improving your play as a character beyond just ZOMG TEH DEEPS!

 

also, as a rebuttle against your silly post. the typical argument that we shouldnt have the tool because it will be misused is horrible. if that was the case we wouldnt be allowed to drive, own a gun, drink, etc. i still maintain, and have yet to be shown and argument that even comes close to convincing me otherwise, that the benefits far exceed the costs.

[TheSkate]

no, morons say dps suck in aoe vs single target. i personally cant help that other than to show WHY thats a stupid assumption to make. in general any sim, assuming its calibrated correctly, will give you a much better result when determining spec and/or priority. dummies in particular are terrible for anything other than practice due to them being statistically insignificant.

 

real time info would be nice, but i agree, not required. meters in general are. meters, when used correctly, can be fun as well as useful. having quick and easy access to other info, like who took damage from what, got interrupts, what killed who and how, etc are all very important for improving your play as a character beyond just ZOMG TEH DEEPS!

 

also, as a rebuttle against your silly post. the typical argument that we shouldnt have the tool because it will be misused is horrible. if that was the case we wouldnt be allowed to drive, own a gun, drink, etc. i still maintain, and have yet to be shown and argument that even comes close to convincing me otherwise, that the benefits far exceed the costs.

 

If a sim tells you what spec and rotation (spell priority) are best, a test dummy lets you work on actually doing that rotation without endangering your ops group.

 

Meters in general are not needed. A combat log tells you everything you asked for in the second paragraph, with the exception of the "ZOMG TEH DEEPS!"

 

Stupid comparisons are stupid.

What if I think bots make the game fun for me? I mean I'm not going to use a bot to make me credits, just to skip the tedious grind that I hate so much. So, should I be allowed to let my computer play for me while I sleep? After all I'm allowed to have someone drive me to the store instead of doing it myself.

See how stupid comparisons are stupid?

 

I maintain the opposite point of view. I have yet to be shown where REAL benefits outweigh the costs. Meters in general are not needed.

[Esproc]

No it's not fine. Well not unless you don't actually care in the slightest about whether or not you're performing as well as you could be or if you're holding your group back.

 

Maybe you need the tools, just keep your eyes on what's going on (don't stand in the fire), to be able to play, sorry.

 

Relying on tools to play takes the fun out of the game and the mechanics set up by the Devs to make it so. If you need tools to beat the game, that tells me a couple of things, one being that you do not trust in your own mind your ability to think and to play accordingly, and two that you need tools tells me you are unwilling to learn how to play your character with out being told how to choose your class, skill, armor and stats, and moves to use with out prompts.

 

I understand not wanting to "hold up the group", but what you want is a Hard Core Raiding guild so that you can all get together and parse to your hearts content, that does not require you to PuG and harass others because they do not follow your "Cookie Cutter" plans.

 

They do of course have all of that and more bells and whistles (in excess of what the games Devs who made it now regret) on another game.

 

They have allowed Personal Logs that you can use and that you may share with those who wish to do likewise. Please be thankful for the concession as many of us do not want this to be a clone of another, that is why we are here.

[rigormortua]

This all comes down to what the aim of the player is.

 

If you're an obsessive overachiever and are in it just to win on a downright unhealthy level, you'll love the idea of being able to scrutinize every bit of math that every player character does. Then you can just ignore all the other things about the game - whether or not the player is a fun guy/girl to hang out with, whether or not they are having fun, whether or not you are having fun... for people like that it will be all down to the tiniest stats and if someone doesn't perform to perfection, they can be kicked off and gotten rid of in favor of some other rabid powerplayer.

 

The rest of the people who actually bought the game to play and have fun with probably think, like I do, that the idea of getting a laundry list that's Excel-like in its precision on exact damage/heal/blah blah is a bad idea. It doesn't promote fun playing or social interaction, it promotes a robotic-like obsession with the perfect stats.

 

There was a question in the start if I'd rather be kicked off the team for documentedly poor DPS or because someone didn't like my armor type... I'd rather not get kicked off the team by some obsessive jerk in the first place, does that choice exist?

 

I have to agree 100%

trying to make people look small seems to be EGO driving this. not common sense.

plus it is just a game.

[livnthedream]

If a sim tells you what spec and rotation (spell priority) are best, a test dummy lets you work on actually doing that rotation without endangering your ops group.

 

that is indeed the ONLY real purpose they serve. my comment was actually directed at the person before you who attempted to state that dummies were great for parsing.

 

Meters in general are not needed. A combat log tells you everything you asked for in the second paragraph, with the exception of the "ZOMG TEH DEEPS!"

 

and what exactly is a meter? a graphical representation of a combat log. meter and combat log are pretty synonymous. unless you are actually going to say that we should be parsing all of that data by hand/eye.

 

Stupid comparisons are stupid.

What if I think bots make the game fun for me? I mean I'm not going to use a bot to make me credits, just to skip the tedious grind that I hate so much. So, should I be allowed to let my computer play for me while I sleep? After all I'm allowed to have someone drive me to the store instead of doing it myself.

See how stupid comparisons are stupid?

 

i see a pointless story that is actually a whole different issue brought into a discussion that has absolutely no bearing on the matter. if anything i see you unwilling to see reason and attempting to distract with drivel. my point stands, if you actually want to refute it, make a similar point instead of one that doesnt make any sense at all.

 

I maintain the opposite point of view. I have yet to be shown where REAL benefits outweigh the costs. Meters in general are not needed.

 

so now your just going to plug your ears and repeat "nah nah nah nah nah" until we go away? i, and many others, have shown direct benefits related to both combat logs, and having easy access to it ingame. the only even semi rational arguments against both stem from either misuse, or not wanting to have to use them, both of which have been addressed.

 

if you truly want to attempt to prove you point, please do so from a position that actually answers the question at hand, instead of from a position of hearsay and prejudice.

[TheSkate]

that is indeed the ONLY real purpose they serve. my comment was actually directed at the person before you who attempted to state that dummies were great for parsing.

 

O.K.

 

 

and what exactly is a meter? a graphical representation of a combat log. meter and combat log are pretty synonymous. unless you are actually going to say that we should be parsing all of that data by hand/eye.

 

Meters and combat logs are not even close to synonymous. A meter is a real-time graphical representation of some portions of the combat log. A meter does not tell you in what sequence the boss made attacks on you. A meter may say that you died to the boss' x attack, but it does not tell you that you had 10k of unhealed damage before the boss attack hit you. However a combat log does do all this plus everything you said you needed to enjoy the game. Also there will be parsers available within a day or two of the game having an exportable combat log (v1.2)

 

 

i see a pointless story that is actually a whole different issue brought into a discussion that has absolutely no bearing on the matter. if anything i see you unwilling to see reason and attempting to distract with drivel. my point stands, if you actually want to refute it, make a similar point instead of one that doesnt make any sense at all.

 

I was just pointing out that stupid comparisons like yours about cars, guns and alcohol ARE stupid, just like the one I posted and I SAID MINE WAS JUST AS STUPID AS YOURS.

I guess I should have just called your statement pointless, distracting drivel and not added my own to show comparison.

 

 

so now your just going to plug your ears and repeat "nah nah nah nah nah" until we go away?

i still maintain, and have yet to be shown and argument that even comes close to convincing me otherwise, that the benefits far exceed the costs.

My reply was just an exact opposite to your statement.

 

i, and many others, have shown direct benefits related to both combat logs, and having easy access to it ingame. the only even semi rational arguments against both stem from either misuse, or not wanting to have to use them, both of which have been addressed.

if you truly want to attempt to prove you point, please do so from a position that actually answers the question at hand, instead of from a position of hearsay and prejudice.

 

Combat logs will be in v1.2.

There are no questions at hand. A meter is not needed. It may be wanted by a small but very vocal minority of players, but it is not needed. I personally see no actual benefits to having meters, and no one has convinced me otherwise. There is only the "oh, so that is what damage I am actually doing" that is of very little benefit and absolutely zero entertainment value. Compared with the negatives: elitism, ostracization of players not as good at playing the meters, decay of the game community, and yes hurt feelings (in today's society the worst of crimes possible), this to me says that the incorporation of meters into the game is a very bad idea. This is not hearsay or prejudice, but facts learned from watching thousands of players on other MMOs do this to other players.

[livnthedream]

Meters and combat logs are not even close to synonymous. A meter is a real-time graphical representation of some portions of the combat log. A meter does not tell you in what sequence the boss made attacks on you. A meter may say that you died to the boss' x attack, but it does not tell you that you had 10k of unhealed damage before the boss attack hit you. However a combat log does do all this plus everything you said you needed to enjoy the game. Also there will be parsers available within a day or two of the game having an exportable combat log (v1.2)

 

recount in particular actually broke down the entirety of the combat log. thats the point. it even broke down the last 5 seconds of damage vs heals tuimestamped to show the very whine you are preaching about. from your posts it sounds like you are one of the many that had no clue what that mod was actually capable of, and therefore used it incorrectly.

 

I was just pointing out that stupid comparisons like yours about cars, guns and alcohol ARE stupid, just like the one I posted and I SAID MINE WAS JUST AS STUPID AS YOURS.

I guess I should have just called your statement pointless, distracting drivel and not added my own to show comparison.

 

this is funny, especially because you then turn around and say

 

Combat logs will be in v1.2.

There are no questions at hand. A meter is not needed. It may be wanted by a small but very vocal minority of players, but it is not needed. I personally see no actual benefits to having meters, and no one has convinced me otherwise. There is only the "oh, so that is what damage I am actually doing" that is of very little benefit and absolutely zero entertainment value. Compared with the negatives: elitism, ostracization of players not as good at playing the meters, decay of the game community, and yes hurt feelings (in today's society the worst of crimes possible), this to me says that the incorporation of meters into the game is a very bad idea. This is not hearsay or prejudice, but facts learned from watching thousands of players on other MMOs do this to other players.

 

which is the very argument that frankly doesnt fly. if that was a viable argument then there are number of things that we wouldnt have. such as those i posted above. ill even say it again, taking away tools because they may be misused is not a viable argument.

 

elitism/ostracization is going to happen regardless, and infact already is. look at the evidence in the fp/op forum with people being excluded from groups based on hp alone.

also, in terms of ostrisizing people, attempting to base that entire on meters is a fallacy in and of itself. not to mention the fact that who are you to say who i can and should group with. if i make the choice not to group with you, for whatever reason, then that is my right. if, as you say, one is not "good at playing meters" then that pretty blatantly makes them a terrible player. why should i be forced to carry him to victory? besides, you can already control all of this, since we have an ignore button. even with the coming lfg tool its staying single server atleast for now, and hopefully period. if anything thats what you should be blaming for your "breakdown of community". making yourself completely anonymous and outside of censure means the public will act there worst, and has.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Meluna
rude

[TheSkate]

Meters and combat logs are not even close to synonymous. A meter is a real-time graphical representation of some portions of the combat log. A meter does not tell you in what sequence the boss made attacks on you. A meter may say that you died to the boss' x attack, but it does not tell you that you had 10k of unhealed damage before the boss attack hit you. However a combat log does do all this plus everything you said you needed to enjoy the game. Also there will be parsers available within a day or two of the game having an exportable combat log (v1.2)

recount in particular actually broke down the entirety of the combat log. thats the point. it even broke down the last 5 seconds of damage vs heals tuimestamped to show the very whine you are preaching about. from your posts it sounds like you are one of the many that had no clue what that mod was actually capable of, and therefore used it incorrectly.

 

If that is true (it wasn't true in the last version I used about 1 month before SWTOR went live) then you are right, that completely blows my argument out of the water. After all knowing what happened in sequence for the last 5 seconds of a fight is much more important than knowing what happened during the entire fight.

 

 

Combat logs will be in v1.2.

There are no questions at hand. A meter is not needed. It may be wanted by a small but very vocal minority of players, but it is not needed. I personally see no actual benefits to having meters, and no one has convinced me otherwise. There is only the "oh, so that is what damage I am actually doing" that is of very little benefit and absolutely zero entertainment value. Compared with the negatives: elitism, ostracization of players not as good at playing the meters, decay of the game community, and yes hurt feelings (in today's society the worst of crimes possible), this to me says that the incorporation of meters into the game is a very bad idea. This is not hearsay or prejudice, but facts learned from watching thousands of players on other MMOs do this to other players.

which is the very argument that frankly doesnt fly. if that was a viable argument then there are number of things that we wouldnt have. such as those i posted above. ill even say it again, taking away tools because they may be misused is not a viable argument.

 

You didn't answer my pov that meters bring nothing to the game that a combat log doesn't already bring except the "ooh, look at my DPS" which really does nothing to enhance game play.

Well, considering the tool DOESN'T EXIST it can't be taken away now can it?

 

 

elitism/ostracization is going to happen regardless, and infact already is. look at the evidence in the fp/op forum with people being excluded from groups based on hp alone.

also, in terms of ostrisizing people, attempting to base that entire on meters is a fallacy in and of itself. not to mention the fact that who are you to say who i can and should group with. if i make the choice not to group with you, for whatever reason, then that is my right. if, as you say, one is not "good at playing meters" then that pretty blatantly makes them a terrible player. why should i be forced to carry him to victory? besides, you can already control all of this, since we have an ignore button. even with the coming lfg tool its staying single server atleast for now, and hopefully period. if anything thats what you should be blaming for your "breakdown of community". making yourself completely anonymous and outside of censure means the public will act there worst, and has.

 

I did not say that meters are the only way people can do any of those things. BUT meters do make this happen more often and rude people act like the meters justify it.

I also never said you had to group with anyone you don't want to. I only said that meters make it easier for rude people to hurt others.

[Kaidimao]

I'd just like to state that I believe combat meteres are a good thing.

 

Back when recount first came out in wow I picked it up almost right away and that was in the days when "ZOMG The *********** tank died!!" What the **** were you doing you stupid healers. blah blah blah.. Guess what, after viewing recount and looking most of the time it really wasn't healers fault at all. So instead of more and more people just yelling at healers every wipe, we now had an answer not so that everyone can yell at someone else but so that person could do something different. Perhaps it was a tank that accidently turned his back or got crushed because his gear wasn't up to scratch and the guild didn't know.

I personally had a guild back in Burning Crusade, and I didn't use the meters as a reason to boot people from guild but to help people at the bottom do better. Our guild was quite close as friends e.t.c and I seen some of my friends move from the bottom to near the top and the overall dps % to even out a lot more.

Of course some people will use it to think they are better at the game than others. And guess what, Perhaps they are. Fact is that not everyone is equal in anything that we do. And in everything there always has to be someone that is last place. But doesn't mean that is the end of the world. Last place doesn't always make you bad. Just means that others are better.

Anyways. Bring on the meters.

[djrocklyn]

I'd like a damage meter.

there are so many reasons I read here about not to have it.

however they are not really solid..

You are not going ops alone and people are investing thier time to do things with you.

If you are not doing well in ops or cause the wipe,

I know it will hurt your ego, there are times when i looked at the recount and felt embarrased in wow.

but it's life. People deserve to get what they worked hard for,

and those who don't, could always join a casual guild and enjoy game content in normal mode.

why we have to hide our combat log to each other and ask them personnally?

it is at the end the same isnt it? unless you do not wish certain people to look at it.

if you think meter is not needed and your calculation works fine.

then just simply dun look at it for yourself, at the end it is still the same..

many things could happen in a boss fight, and people will judge it based on facts and not assumption. and trust me and your guildmates they will know wether theres exception if the tool is good enough.

if u wanna get best gears in game and feel superior or.. not getting embarrased

why not try to accept the fact and improve your game?

you have to put in extra effort to get extra..

is that what you call elitist?

elitism always exists.. it is not the meter that makes them, it is the people.

 

transparency, i believe, is only good for protect unwanted behaviour from ppl, whether it's in real life or in game.

Edited April 12, 2012 by djrocklyn

[Daggerhowl]

...if u wanna get best gears in game and feel superior or.. not getting embarrased

why not try to accept the fact and improve your game?....

 

I want to improve my game, I find it fun and interesting and I strive to do my best every single time. Gear is the tool that will help me to do it better. I honestly would love having end game gear without any distinctive look so I dont stand out in the crowd.

 

If you are trying to get the "best gear" and "feel superior" or "not getting embarrased", I think that you need to revisit your priorities in real life, just sayin'.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Daggerhowl

[djrocklyn]

Good that you try to improve your game.

i believe you can do without recount even if it's in game.

and those who cant can improve with recount.

so it is still same issnt it?

why not have it?

 

Im just sayin "if", however, I do somewhat want to get best gears(preferbly good looking) in the game and stand out if i got a chance, i cant lie. Im not that humble and never that great as a person i guess lol.. sorry for that.

Edited April 12, 2012 by djrocklyn

[uniz]

NO i am not in favor of recount. a raid leader who knows what he is doing doesnt need any tools to tell who is or isnt performing to his standard. if guild idiot is always dieing or the healer says i have to heal gi alot then you know what is going on.

 

why is it so many of the blizzard generation of mmo players need a feature or addon for something that a EXPERIENCED or above average mmo player knows how to do?

[Daggerhowl]

You won...we are now playing Galaxy WoW

 

 

Happy?

 

WARNING: I tried to download this yesterday and IT SEEMS THAT IT HAS KEYLOGGERS

Edited April 13, 2012 by Daggerhowl