nichtganz Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Video games are once again C Canon. At least the cut scenes and the general plot. You can "lol @ post ROTJ lore" but once again. It's just as Canon as the old republic. Just because you don't like it won't change that fact. Just as if someone doesn't like the TOR it doesn't negate it as Canon either. Oh, and barring post ROTJ it's been stated officially that Yoda was the most powerful Jedi pre - Luke. So even post ROTJ aside. Yoda = More powerful than Revan but then if Sidious was stronger than Yoda.. Sidious = Most powerful Sith. Nihilus still isn't the strongest no matter how you look at it. Except Yoda is blatantly more powerful than Palpy, With powers than dont compare to the ancient jedi. Much like Palpy being a wet noodle compare to the ancient sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Except Yoda is blatantly more powerful than Palpy, With powers than dont compare to the ancient jedi. Much like Palpy being a wet noodle compare to the ancient sith. What has Yoda done that surpasses Palp? He created a Force Storm that could make planets become like Malachor V. His lightning is the most powerful there is, it bent Windu's lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armah Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 What has Yoda done that surpasses Palp? He created a Force Storm that could make planets become like Malachor V. His lightning is the most powerful there is, it bent Windu's lightsaber. Yoda tells better jokes, and does his own cooking and housekeeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nichtganz Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 What has Yoda done that surpasses Palp? He created a Force Storm that could make planets become like Malachor V. His lightning is the most powerful there is, it bent Windu's lightsaber. Except both Widnu, and Yoda kicked the crap out of Sidious. Windu Roflstomped Sidious only to be betrayed by Anakin. Yoda had him running like a ***** in the beginning of the fight, and was saved by the bell by the end of the scene. I guess im just disproving all that crappy post ROTJ lore, he was a weak sith but a very manipulative one, he had no such powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratho Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Just throwing this out there.. "...to become the most powerful Jedi, and the only way you can really do that is to go to the Dark side because the Dark side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side, which is the Dark side..." - George Lucas [AOTC commentary] Yoda is a character. Characters can be wrong. That's just Lucas giving crap for his original work. Yoda said dark side is not stronger because Lucas intended so. I can't believe people will just take whatever crap George is giving us. And the movies>books. Edited January 22, 2012 by Zeratho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Except Yoda is blatantly more powerful than Palpy, With powers than dont compare to the ancient jedi. Much like Palpy being a wet noodle compare to the ancient sith. What? The novelization makes it clear Yoda was weaker. Sidious was playing with him. There came a turning point in the clash of the light against the dark. It did not come from a flash of lightning or slash of energy blade, though there were these in plenty; it did not come from a flying kick or a surgically precise punch, though these were traded, too. It came as the battle shifted from the holding office to the great Chancellor's Podium; it came as the hydraulic lift beneath the Podium raised it on its tower of durasteel a hundred meters and more, so that it became a laserpoint of battle flaring at the focus of the vast emptiness of the Senate Arena; it came as the Force and the podium's controls ripped delegation pods free of the curving walls and made of them hammers, battering rams, catapult stones crashing and crushing against each other in a rolling thunder-roar that echoed the Senate's cheers for the galaxy's new Emperor. It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi; when the lineage of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi. It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark. In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force. Finally, he saw the truth. This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known... just-- didn't-- have it. He'd never had it. He had lost before he started. He had lost before he was born. The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves. They had become new. While the Jedi-- The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war. The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter the light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when the war itself had become the dark's own weapon? He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the galaxy. But if he fell here, that hope would die with him. That's the novelization. Here's a quote from Leland Chee. The man who controls continuity and canon. "Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure. Defeated, Yoda slinked away into the shadows of the Senate chamber's cavernous depths, leaping into a waiting getaway speeder piloted by Bail Organa." Even Leland Chee states that he was too powerful for Yoda. He bested Yoda. And Yoda left defeated. Sidious > Yoda. "He studied the ancient ruins on the Sith mausoleum world of Korriban. He unlocked secrets of the Force from a captured Jedi Holocron. The dark side energies flowing through Palpatine's body were so intense, that they ravaged his mortal frame. The very source of Palpatine's strength was killing him." To counter the dark side's consumption, Palpatine turned to a bizarre combination of technology and Sith magic. Palpatine used Spaarti cloning cylinders to create a store of younger bodies, and employed an ancient Sith technique to transfer his consciousness into a waiting clone. Thus, Palpatine could avoid death indefinitely -- as long as his supply of clones remained intact. He would change his form again and again, prolonging his life. Palpatine constructed a secret throne-world deep within the galaxy's core, on a shadowy world called Byss. Here, he kept his clones safe, protected by a loyal cadre of Dark Side Adepts. " “Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.”(The New Essential Chronology, page 84 ) Here we go. Word of God Canon stating Sidious is the most powerful Sith. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course [that the Rebel Alliance would be troublesome]; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith who had ever existed.” (Death Star, page 76) More word of Canon. Funny thing is this takes place prior to ROTJ. Oh look. A Canon source prior to ROTJ calling him the most powerful Sith in history. “Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.” (Vader: the Ultimate Guide, page 19) Yet another. "Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure"-- The Dark Empire Sourcebook. Ah, what's that? The ancient Sith knew powers he didn't? Funny. It says in this he studied jedi disciplines and mastered all known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones on a whim. “[The Galactic Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side. He would journey across the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.”-- The Dark Side Sourcebook. Yet another. ”Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time.”-- The Complete Visual Dictionary. Another source.. "The Sith Order, in hiding for a millennium, had awaited the birth of one who was powerful enough to return the Order to prominence. Darth Sidious was the fulfillment of that prophecy, capable of exacting the Sith's revenge on the Jedi for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side of the Force." -- the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia. Need more? Sure.. "Only Palpatine has been able to spread his darkness completely and totally over an entire galaxy. What has proven to be the lasting genius of Palpatine as Emperor is his devotion to collecting all the knowledge of the Dark Side that he can, as well as what Light Side information he can corrupt and preserve. He is no more altruistic than any other, but his newfound immortality has given him the patience that all before him have lacked." Well, there you have it. Multiple sources. Some post ROTJ. Some prior ROTJ. Your argument is weak. It amounts to this. "I don't like it so I don't believe it. I say Nihilus is more powerful because I don't like him. Facts don't matter I'm right you're wrong." That's no way to settle a debate. As for the fight with Yoda? You realized even before Yoda fell from the senate towers he had his lightsaber blasted out of his hand from Sidious lightning right? He was forced to try to absorb it and reflect it which ended with them both flying backwards. If Yoda couldn't even wield a saber against Sidious how can he possibly win? I also don't recall Sidious "fleeing in terror." I do recall him laughing and acting like a child. Which he didn't do against Windu. Why is that? Edited January 22, 2012 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhilleos Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I love star wars and all but some of you people just need to get a life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratho Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I love star wars and all but some of you people just need to get a life... Maybe a first post in several pages I actually agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Except both Widnu, and Yoda kicked the crap out of Sidious. Windu Roflstomped Sidious only to be betrayed by Anakin. Yoda had him running like a ***** in the beginning of the fight, and was saved by the bell by the end of the scene. I guess im just disproving all that crappy post ROTJ lore, he was a weak sith but a very manipulative one, he had no such powers. Windu beat Sidious in a duel. Except Windu is in my opinion the 2nd best duelist of both Sith and Jedi. And When Sidious was giving him lightning, he was bending his lightsaber. Yoda did not have him running. At first he tried to walk out, and then they engaged in a duel and Yoda Lost. Do you remember what Yoda said, "Failed I have. Into Exile, I must go." I'm not going to even pull out my RoTS novelizaiton, since I've already posted it 2 pages ago. Edit: Just saw the Rhyltran took out his novel. Edited January 22, 2012 by BrandonSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 That's just Lucas giving crap for his original work. Yoda said dark side is not stronger because Lucas intended so. I can't believe people will just take whatever crap George is giving us. And the movies>books. Indeed, movies are greater than the books. However, Lucas hired someone to lay down rules for his Canon. As long as anything outside the movies don't contradict with the movies. It's Canon. Can you prove without a doubt that Yoda is more powerful than Sidious? Or how about that the dark side isn't stronger? A person's opinion doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmcbo Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Vader was weak, Palpatine enslaved him as easy as Jabba his Twi'lek dancers. Sith list should have persons like Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd tho. palpatine didn't enslave him, and if we all remember, when vader chose to attack sidious, he owned him. who is more powerful, the sith who achieved galactic domination, or the one who killed him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armah Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 That's just Lucas giving crap for his original work. Yoda said dark side is not stronger because Lucas intended so. I can't believe people will just take whatever crap George is giving us. That was crap he gave us as well...just saying. Who starts training someone to fight and enforces that there is no way they can win? It's not hard to believe the dark side could be stronger or else why set up everything to have Luke "the son of the chosen one" be the champion. Obi-Wan could have actually fought Vader instead of letting Luke see him killed. Yoda could have tried to fight again. But they didn't they placed all their hope in someone they believed would be more powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 palpatine didn't enslave him, and if we all remember, when vader chose to attack sidious, he owned him. who is more powerful, the sith who achieved galactic domination, or the one who killed him? Sidious is more powerful... but Vader is still pretty powerful. Just not as powerful as Vadi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nichtganz Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) TLDR POST ROTJ lore again, yoda kicked his *** in ROTS. Palps manipulated a republic and destroyed it from within the inside. Nihilus consumed entire planets and nearly destroyed the jedi order BECAUSE OF HUNGER FOR THE FORCE. Only the exile could harm Nihilus because of his force wound, Palpy would be an appetizer for Nihilus debate this. Edited January 22, 2012 by nichtganz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) TLDR POST ROTJ lore again, yoda kicked his *** in ROTS. Palps manipulated a republic and destroyed it from within the inside. Nihilus consumed entire planets and nearly destroyed the jedi order BECAUSE OF HUNGER FOR THE FORCE. Only the exile could harm Nihilus because of his force wound, Nihilus would eat be an appetizer for Nihilus debate this. Sources? Only the exile during that time could hurt Nihilus. There was a super weapon long after KOTOR 2 that basically did the same thing as Nihilus and a technique was invented to block it. Pretty much anything in the radius was instantly drained of all life. This is before post ROTJ too. Tyranus knew this technique as did Yoda and Sidious. Again, you said Yoda was kicking his behind. Prove that Sidious wasn't holding back. Where's your sources? I posted mine. Where's yours? All I see is "I have opinions but I'm right!" Edited January 22, 2012 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmcbo Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 and also remember, the only reason vader died after killing sidious was because of the cybernetics. without being restricted by them, I can't even imagine how powerful he would be.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 and also remember, the only reason vader died after killing sidious was because of the cybernetics. without being restricted by them, I can't even imagine how powerful he would be.. He was 80% as strong as Sidious with his cybernetics. According to George he'd have been 200% stronger than Sidious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nichtganz Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Sources? Only the exile during that time could hurt Nihilus. There was a super weapon long after KOTOR 2 that basically did the same thing as Nihilus and a technique was invented to block it. Pretty much anything in the radius was instantly drained of all life. This is before post ROTJ too. Tyranus knew this technique as did Yoda and Sidious. Again, you said Yoda was kicking his behind. Prove that Sidious wasn't holding back. Where's your sources? I posted mine. Where's yours? All I see is "I have opinions but I'm right!" Your just mad because my sith lord is stylin' on yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 TLDR POST ROTJ lore again, yoda kicked his *** in ROTS. Palps manipulated a republic and destroyed it from within the inside. Nihilus consumed entire planets and nearly destroyed the jedi order BECAUSE OF HUNGER FOR THE FORCE. Only the exile could harm Nihilus because of his force wound, Palpy would be an appetizer for Nihilus debate this. And Palpatine actually did destroy the Jedi Order and destroy the Republic and become the all galactic ruler of the galaxy... Nihilus is EU therefore we use Palps EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explosive_Lasers Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Your just mad because my sith lord is stylin' on yours. He's mad because he posted enough sources to kill a bull elephant, and you still won't look at the truth. Edit: There was an extra 'e' in there. Edited January 22, 2012 by Explosive_Lasers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nichtganz Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 He's made because he posted enough sources to kill a bull elephant, and you still won't look at the truth. /mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Your just mad because my sith lord is stylin' on yours. Now it's become clear that you're trolling however if you must know my favorite star wars characters are Obi Wan Kenobi, Vader, Dooku, and Bane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratho Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Indeed, movies are greater than the books. However, Lucas hired someone to lay down rules for his Canon. As long as anything outside the movies don't contradict with the movies. It's Canon. Can you prove without a doubt that Yoda is more powerful than Sidious? Or how about that the dark side isn't stronger? A person's opinion doesn't count. As for which side of the Force is stronger, I got the image, that they are equal. Light side is maybe slower and harder, but you don't lose yourself, you keep your mind pure and the Force won't enslave you. Dark side is easier and quicker, but the dark side will consume you, inprison you. I don't think any Jedi or Sith is stronger because they are using that side of the Force, some people are just stronger than the other. It's just that simple. I think Sidious was more powerful than Yoda, but not because dark side would be overall stronger, but because Sidious was just more stronger with the Force than Yoda. And I don't have to prove that dark side isn't stronger because it was said in the frickin movie! This is exactly why I don't like the EU anymore that much since it confuses people from facts that are said in the movies. Not every Star Wars fan read those books. Movies should be original source of information here since they are Lucas' original works. Edited January 22, 2012 by Zeratho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 As for which side of the Force is stronger, I got the image, that they are equal. Light Side is maybe slower and harder, but you don't lose yourself, you keep your mind pure and the Force won't enslave you. Dark Side is easier and quicker, but the Dark Side will consume you, inprison you. I don't think any Jedi or Sith is stronger because they are using that side of the Force, some people are just stronger than the other. It's just that simple. I think Sidious was more powerful than Yoda, but not because Dark Side would be overall stronger, but because Sidious was just more stronger with the Force than Yoda. And I don't have to prove that Dark Side isn't stronger because it was said in the frickin movie! This is exactly why I don't like the EU anymore that much since it confuses people from facts that are said in the movies. Not every Star Wars fan read those books. Except my quote didn't come from the books but Lucas' own mouth when discussing his own film. In one of the novels, I believe it's dark rendezvous, Sidious does muse that if Yoda practiced the dark side he may be much stronger than even him. Of course that's Sidious opinion. Note that quote was taken out of context. I admit as much. Lucas stated that the dark side is more powerful but only when it comes to powers. He followed that up with that the dark side inevitably leads to one's own destruction. In a sense that does make it weaker than the light side. So the dark side does give an edge when it comes to combat prowess but it doesn't matter because it'll destroy you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulta Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I can't say I care much for the canon, that stuff has become extraordinarily twisted Sidious being so uber powerful doesn't even make sense considering at the end he just got dropped down a giant pit and died (yes yes eu sidious all powerful, george says he's a god). When it comes the EU that has got to be some of the most erratic stuff out there I mean at this stage Luke Skywalker may as well be god since nothing can kill him and he has aced every bad guy in his time, hell he's about to kill a darkside god (Abeloth). On a side note after reading a bunch of this does nobody else think that star wars has turned into dragonball Z? Or better yet has always been like DZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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