carbocat Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) LOL!! So I'm on my 26 Gunslinger and I get attacked by a 50 Operative. He opens for 40% of my HP on a single hit. As soon as I go face down I hit my CC breaker and start running. He takes another 20% of my HP. I'm moving before the animation of my character being face down has even caught up. Long story short, I put an arrow in his knee and kited him. A bunch of my teammates and myself wiped him out. He had no where to run and couldn't get away. So, why is it that all you 50s can't do the same? Because you're terrible at PvP. That's why. Your reactions are slow, you're bad with your characters, you're mindless in your attacks and even worse with your defenses. MAN..I CANNOT WAIT FOR 50 BRACKET PVP!! 90% of you 50s are about to find out that it's not Operatives/Scoundrels...it's EVERY CLASS in the game that's clowning you. ...because you suck. True, but the big part is, that all of those who svcream for nerf isnt even lvl 50, and they got stomped by a lvl 50 oprative in pvp gear..... I have seen champ/half BM geared maradur own 2-3 ppl, and 1 of them was oprative, he stand up after knock down with 60% hp left and ripped them apart... NERF mara`s!! Edited January 17, 2012 by carbocat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chromakeyz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Even pyromancers in rift and fire wizards in warhammer didn't have stealth, just got out of a super fun game where an operative decided to camp me in spawn in huttball so I couldn't even get a single medal, he just sat outside my spawn and waited for me. I didn't even know the guy, but I could literally do nothing to him before I was killed in his 5 second knockdown out of stealth. Good balance bioware, you made rift and warhammer look good. Or you just couldve walked like 30-50m to the left and jump down in the middle of the map? Good balanced brain op. Edited January 17, 2012 by chromakeyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Long story short, I put an arrow in his knee and kited him. A bunch of my teammates and myself wiped him out. He had no where to run and couldn't get away. So, why is it that all you 50s can't do the same? I play assassin, if you triple my current dps you could still wipe me with a bunch of your teammates. That does not mean if I get triple my current DPS I am balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 True, but the big part is, that all of those who svcream for nerf isnt even lvl 50, and they got stomped by a lvl 50 oprative in pvp gear..... Exactly! Right now, just about ANY CLASS is going to stomp you 1 v 1 if they're in PvP gear, buffed to the 9s, and you happen to be lvl 41. Sorry, unless that guy is shield spec...you're about to be plowed. PvP is hard. It should be. Players should AoE at random looking for stealths. Players should keep an eye out for unstealthed Operatives/Soundrels. Troopers/BHs should always be looking for stealthies. If you have stealth detection talents, spec for them. If you have shields, use them. ...if you find yourself face down this SHOULD NOT BE YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS: "Why didn't that special I hit go off? Why isn't this working? OH CRAP I'M STUNNED! Umm...CC Breaker..where is it?! THERE IT IS!! BREAK CC!!!" For many players, that is THE EXACT THOUGHT PROCESS THEY GO THROUGH!! The following SHOULD BE YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS if you find yourself face down : "BREAK CC!!! SHIELD/SPRINT/KNOCKBACK/SMOKE BOMB/EVADE!! RUN and KITE!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zqsd Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 LOL!! So I'm on my 26 Gunslinger and I get attacked by a 50 Operative. He opens for 40% of my HP on a single hit. As soon as I go face down I hit my CC breaker and start running. He takes another 20% of my HP. I'm moving before the animation of my character being face down has even caught up. Long story short, I put an arrow in his knee and kited him. A bunch of my teammates and myself wiped him out. He had no where to run and couldn't get away. So, why is it that all you 50s can't do the same? Because you're terrible at PvP. That's why. Your reactions are slow, you're bad with your characters, you're mindless in your attacks and even worse with your defenses. MAN..I CANNOT WAIT FOR 50 BRACKET PVP!! 90% of you 50s are about to find out that it's not Operatives/Scoundrels...it's EVERY CLASS in the game that's clowning you. ...because you suck. Rofl, il always find it cute when a newbie tries to give lessons to confirmed players. At level 26 you have absolutely no clue what pvp is, please go back to Tattoïne and ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan_Hoffman Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) 23 pages, hahahahahahahaha. Makes me so happy I am an Operative. You guys are hilarious Wait!! I just made it 24 pages Edited January 17, 2012 by Jordan_Hoffman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsu Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Im a 50 operative and while I do get a few solo kills in I cant compete with, consulors, inqs, juggs, troopers and mercs equally geared. Im squishy compared to the rest I timed how long I stay alive with cs and esc on cooldown and its around 20 secs. While we do have good burst from stealth we die quickly after so I see it as a trade off, the amount of cc in this game is just insane, imo ill trade some damage for some survivability. Hope the knockdown stays, without it the class is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I play assassin, if you triple my current dps you could still wipe me with a bunch of your teammates. That does not mean if I get triple my current DPS I am balanced. You missed the point. I was significantly undergeared by comparison. I was not out, alone, hanging by my lonesome and not paying attention. I was around other players, and ensured THROUGH MY OWN ACTIONS AND NOT A NERF CRY TO THE DEVS, that the Operative was UNSUCCESSFUL and ended up dead. See, you want to be "Billy Bad @-ss". You want to be all muscle and no brain...and that's why you're crying on a forum, because your approach doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperThomas Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 "BREAK CC!!! SHIELD/SPRINT/KNOCKBACK/SMOKE BOMB/EVADE!! RUN and KITE!" You do realize that CC breaker is on a 2 min cooldown for most classes right? In that massive *** stun that operatives have if you cannot CC break they can get you down to 10-20% health just while in the stun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Rofl, il always find it cute when a newbie tries to give lessons to confirmed players. At level 26 you have absolutely no clue what pvp is, please go back to Tattoïne and ****. Oh I'm sorry, is my current lvl 50 Commando not good enough? Were my 50s (Gunslinger, Merc, and Juggernaut) in beta not good enough? ****. You're a crybaby and you don't know what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoredJuneBug Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I witnessed a lvl 49 Operative absolutely destroy a Powertech in FULL tank spec with a FULL set of Champion PVP gear. The Operative had him down to 45% in seconds. That's partly due to another issue, namely that defensive stats do **** all in PvP. Your Defense and Shielding/Absorption stats only work against attacks that do weapon damage, not Force/Tech. Operatives/Scoundrels do mostly Kinetic damage with their poking abilities, which can't defended or shielded against. Add a 50% armor ignore debuff and tanks are generally worse off against Operatives/Scoundrels than anyone else because their conventional defenses don't work. The best defensive abilities in PvP are damage shields like the Sage/Sorcerer bubble and hard mitigation abilities (those that reduce incoming damage by xx%). On topic: As a Shadow tank and Operative healer myself I'd wait to see what the stacking consumables fix will do first. Heck, I'd advocate getting rid of the PvP damage buffs altogether - the last thing PvP needs is more burst. If that's not enough I'd say the next step is start making more attacks (for most classes mind, not just Operatives/Scoundrels) respect defensive stats and take a hard look at the armor ignore percentages. It's likely that there need not be any significant changes to the classes in question, most likely it's a number of different issues stacking to exacerbate the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosefeathers Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I had gripes with operatives too until i hit the level cap and got some gear, I'd hope that bioware would never address issues largely presented by people not even playing the game at its most balanced state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastercosby Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) "BREAK CC!!! SHIELD/SPRINT/KNOCKBACK/SMOKE BOMB/EVADE!! RUN and KITE!" You do realize that CC breaker is on a 2 min cooldown for most classes right? In that massive *** stun that operatives have if you cannot CC break they can get you down to 10-20% health just while in the stun. An OP without his stun breaker will get owned just as bad by any other class if he gets stunned without cooldowns so this argument is pointless. Edited January 17, 2012 by mastercosby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan_Hoffman Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Even pyromancers in rift and fire wizards in warhammer didn't have stealth, just got out of a super fun game where an operative decided to camp me in spawn in huttball so I couldn't even get a single medal, he just sat outside my spawn and waited for me. I didn't even know the guy, but I could literally do nothing to him before I was killed in his 5 second knockdown out of stealth. Good balance bioware, you made rift and warhammer look good. I one time, at Band Camp on Hoth, saw a Wampa One hit a Sage!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 "BREAK CC!!! SHIELD/SPRINT/KNOCKBACK/SMOKE BOMB/EVADE!! RUN and KITE!" You do realize that CC breaker is on a 2 min cooldown for most classes right? In that massive *** stun that operatives have if you cannot CC break they can get you down to 10-20% health just while in the stun. So what you're telling me is that PvP = you undergeared, locked in a phone booth with a level 50 fully geared Operative while you're just...well...you? How about this. How about at the end of the match you divide that Operative's damage by the number of kills. See what the average damage on target is. Then do it for yourself. I'm willing to bet you come out with a higher Time On Target (more damage per target). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 http://www.deviantart.com/download/100883333/Crying_baby_by_dash_foto_c.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You do realize that CC breaker is on a 2 min cooldown for most classes right? In that massive *** stun that operatives have if you cannot CC break they can get you down to 10-20% health just while in the stun. No, you don't understand. When there is an Operative about in the warzone you're supposed to save every cd you have to be used on them because they're perfectly balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 That's partly due to another issue, namely that defensive stats do **** all in PvP. Your Defense and Shielding/Absorption stats only work against attacks that do weapon damage, not Force/Tech. Operatives/Scoundrels do mostly Kinetic damage with their poking abilities, which can't defended or shielded against. Add a 50% armor ignore debuff and tanks are generally worse off against Operatives/Scoundrels than anyone else because their conventional defenses don't work. The best defensive abilities in PvP are damage shields like the Sage/Sorcerer bubble and hard mitigation abilities (those that reduce incoming damage by xx%). On topic: As a Shadow tank and Operative healer myself I'd wait to see what the stacking consumables fix will do first. Heck, I'd advocate getting rid of the PvP damage buffs altogether - the last thing PvP needs is more burst. If that's not enough I'd say the next step is start making more attacks (for most classes mind, not just Operatives/Scoundrels) respect defensive stats and take a hard look at the armor ignore percentages. It's likely that there need not be any significant changes to the classes in question, most likely it's a number of different issues stacking to exacerbate the situation. QF *mother F-ing* T!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No, you don't understand. When there is an Operative about in the warzone you're supposed to save every cd you have to be used on them because they're perfectly balanced. Your tears make me happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Your tears make me happy. I'm not crying, just stating the obvious. lol I've survived through the opening before and won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lushbits Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I had gripes with operatives too until i hit the level cap and got some gear, I'd hope that bioware would never address issues largely presented by people not even playing the game at its most balanced state QFT. As I said before: Wait until there is a 50's only bracket and everyone is up to par on PvP gear. THEN BW can start looking at balancing individual classes, especially a class ONLY made for coming-out-of-stealth-burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Add a 50% armor ignore debuff and tanks are generally worse off against Operatives/Scoundrels than anyone else because their conventional defenses don't work. BH/Troopers are generally worse off against Operatives/Scoundrels, in your experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiussat Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Going to go out on a limb and actually suggest that the Pyromancers' ability to one-shot multiple players consecutively was even less balanced. Just saying. And it's still there. Trion got the wise idea in 1.6 to take away the pyro nerfs and bring them back to their old status. And they also buffed stormcaller (lol) which made them godlike for a few weeks before they gave them a flat 30% nerf in PvP. Rift's class balance is the worst ever. Trion is constantly buffing and nerfing some class every patch making it FoTM with tons of people rolling alts to join the fun. It's almost like they do it for the lulz. Let us hope BW does not make such sweeping changes to classes every patch. Lets see if the stim and adrenal stacking nerf doesn't help this first (which I think it will -- a lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm not crying, just stating the obvious. lol I've survived through the opening before and won. That being said, have you caught an Operative/Scoundrel in the out in the open and won? ...just curious...because you're saying you've beaten a class that had an UNSTOPPABLE/INSURMOUNTABLE ADVANTAGE. If this is the case, well, by the logic of people in this thread... ...you need a HUGE NERF because you're OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belialle Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm not crying, just stating the obvious. lol I've survived through the opening before and won. So.... You have been jumped by an operative/scoundrel and .... you somehow managed to live to tell the tale?? How can this be?? It's hard to concentrate with all the shrieking going on in this thread, and I think you have just BLOWN MY MIND, MAN. Everyone knows that they are so OP that no one could ever survive the opener from a level 50 scoundrel. I mean, I have survived, too.....but I'm only in my 30s and a healer, so what I do is survive and escape. But you.....You survived and won. I guess, using the logic apparent in this thread, that someone ought to nerf you, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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