"New MMO" isn't an excuse, especially with todays' consumers

[Zaskaszh]

I also take issue with these kinds of posts.

 

As a matter of fact, we WERE promised complete PvP. SWTOR is and has been marketed as an MMO, not an online co-op multiplayer KOTOR. If I cared that much, because I know people demand it, I could find the youtube video AND developer post promising that "SWTOR will have all the features of a triple A mmo players expect." But I don't care that much, you can use google fine if you dont suck.

 

So, no, SWTOR is not a pve story-driven game with PvP added, it's an INCOMPLETE triple A mmo that has plenty of story-driven pve and unfinished PvP. No petulance involved.

 

"An epic adventure awaits you! Play Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ and be the

hero of your own Star Wars™ saga in a story-driven massively-multiplayer online game from BioWare and LucasArts."

 

That quote is taken from the game overview on this very site. You're full of it. This game is PVE first, PvP second. Not an afterthought, just not the focus of development.

 

Deal with your unrealistic expectations now.

[Maasterrcsaw]

Ok, now I'm pissed off. Listen here; the customer may expect bang for his buck, but the customer is also responsible for knowing what the BLEEP he is getting himself into!!!! The customer is NOT always right. That's some lame American conceit. If you march into my French bistro and demand Thai cuisine, I will happily tell you to go cork yourself. It's not up to ME to cater to YOUR stupid desires! I offer a product (French cuisine) and you decide if you want it. You are NOT entitled to order me to redesign my menu around your tastes. Who the hell do you think you are?

 

In your French bistro I take for granted that you offer French cuisine, just like when I subscribe to an MMO I expect PvP. I do not expect PvE, with a bit of PvP on the side, with extra FPS issue sauce.

 

"It's not up to ME to cater to YOUR stupid desires! " - The whole point of business is to satisfy the consumers wants and needs. So it is up to YOU to produce a sufficient PvP side. However, as a French bistro owner, it would obviously be ridiculous if your customers demanded Thai food. It is not ridiculous for MMO customers to deman PvP.

[kettykat]

In your French bistro I take for granted that you offer French cuisine, just like when I subscribe to an MMO I expect PvP. I do not expect PvE, with a bit of PvP on the side, with extra FPS issue sauce.

 

"It's not up to ME to cater to YOUR stupid desires! " - The whole point of business is to satisfy the consumers wants and needs. So it is up to YOU to produce a sufficient PvP side. However, as a French bistro owner, it would obviously be ridiculous if your customers demanded Thai food. It is not ridiculous for MMO customers to deman PvP.

 

Hutts don't have feet.

[Playdohqt]

Firstly why are you comparing a game that launched in 2004 to a game that launched in late 2011? Do you compare a pc made in 2004 to a pc made in 2011? Do you compare an 10 year old athlete to a 20 year old? You don't, so stop with your "it was better than wow launcher story"

 

I still find it funny how Bioware tricked you in believing that they "released" the game early just because they wanted to. No company in their right mind would do that. They preplanned the early release aka letting small groups in at a time so they wouldnt end up like other MMOs whilst pretending it to being a favour to the consumer. Some people will be sheep all their lives.

 

Now let's get to your other point. How many years have they worked on the game? 4-5 years... and you think they would have atleast have all the other features every new mmo has. Oh wait.. TOR doesnt. What a suprise they spent all their budget on VA.

 

Lastly they released the game unfinished because they were scared to release within the same period as Guild Wars 2 and WoW Pandas. What does that tell you about the company? They dont care about the consumer only how much profit they can make.

 

Now quite clearly, you need a tampon. But thats ok. I'll still humor you with a reply. First of all, I don't care when a game was made, the issues at launch are always going to be different, and so are the expectations of people at that specific release. Your comparisons are actually horrendous but thank you for trying.

 

No one was tricked into an early release. Maybe you were? I dunno how intelligent you are really. However, as I said in my previous post, MMO's are WOP's. Have you ever seen a 100% complete MMO at launch?

 

And now lastly, to your point about releasing the game unfinished. Who, in their right mind, would even try to release an MMO at the same time as MOP or GW2 if those are already established games? I would really like to know which dumb *** salesman would pitch something that.

[Senefera]

Relevant section bolded in red.

 

Application development is a time-intense process, and MMOs are literally some of the most advanced software developed by mankind. I'm dead serious, consider: a database-driven application with 3D graphic front end interface, designed to accommodate hundreds of thousands of users, in real-time, across the world.

 

Developing these applications is in every way as involved as srs bzns companies like Google or Microsoft developing the next greatest software solution.

 

Please cut the devs some slack. They have a list over 9000 items long and each one could drill down into months of development. These systems are complex, and engineered by highly technically proficient, educated people. They take time, lots of time, to get right.

 

I need to quote you in case someone miss your original post.

[Ellegy]

Ok, now I'm pissed off. Listen here; the customer may expect bang for his buck, but the customer is also responsible for knowing what the BLEEP he is getting himself into!!!! The customer is NOT always right. That's some lame American conceit. If you march into my French bistro and demand Thai cuisine, I will happily tell you to go cork yourself. It's not up to ME to cater to YOUR stupid desires! I offer a product (French cuisine) and you decide if you want it. You are NOT entitled to order me to redesign my menu around your tastes. Who the hell do you think you are?

 

Bioware made a PVE STORY-DRIVEN game which ALSO offers PVP.

 

Is that what you want? No? You want a finely-honed, competitive, e-sports level entry in Player versus Player gaming? You want stats tracking, trophies, achievments, razor perfect balance and flawless technical performance? Up yours. You were never promised that by Bioware. No. Don;t tell me you were, because you weren't. Find me the evidence that Bioware promised this as a PvP game first and foremost "....and if you want to, you can go live an adventure in the Star Wars universe, too. You know...if you're not into PvP that is...". Go ahead. I dare you.

 

If the PvE story-driven game ain't for you, then live with the foibles in the PvP game until they get them straightened out. But stop pretending you've been screwed somehow, you petulant little child.

 

Lmfao THANK YOU!!! Dead on! But FYI, he only represents about half of America... And hey, as long as BW keeps their consumers in the loop about what they're working on I'm happy.

[kettykat]

Have you ever seen a 100% complete MMO at launch?

 

When are MMOs ever 100% complete? New content will always be there while there is a decent amount of subscribers

Edited January 16, 2012 by kettykat

[Pashgan]

Correct. I played StarWars: Galaxies for almost 2 years - despite it was missing end-game completely + it was full of bugs + it wasn't balanced. But since when I've played WoW, EVE, LotRO, PotBS, etc. etc. And Rift. And now we see the game there developers don't fix bugs for months and don't have any clues how to create working open world PvP.

 

It's not 2003th and there is plenty of fish - developers don't have a chance to treat paying subscribers base as laboratory rats for their own money. Sorry, I don't want to pay for someone's mistakes and education - I want enjoyable game instead. I feel like i'll be much happier when my SWTOR game time expire - no more 30 champion bags-o-duplicates in a row, no more bugs in 40% of daily quests on ilum, no more 8fps on 1 year old laptop, no more stupid points flipping on ilum for yet another bag with failtokens.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Pashgan

[Kayse]

Really?

 

I am a level 50 BH, Bebop, on Shien. Sure PVP may seem "unbalanced."

 

 

But fact is i can roll a low lvl toon, and id o all the time, with NO problem at all killing level 50's. If you have any skill at all or know how to play your class you will be fine. Stop trying to find excuses and blaming it on Bioware for you not being able to pvp. Most ppl on my server dont even have any problem with the pvp brackets. Most actually enjoy the challenge. And i also firmly believe this lvl 50 brackets is too soon esp on the RP servers. 3 hour q's? Why not...

 

Fact is if you can play your class or get premades, regardless of level, you will win. Play Shien which ironically obviously has better pvpers than the pvp servers. Because this QQ gets old.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Kayse

[Jesmcalli]

Really?

 

I am a level 50 BH, Bebop, on Shien. Sure PVP may seem "unbalanced."

 

 

But fact is i can roll a low lvl toon, and id o all the time, with NO problem at all killing level 50's. If you have any skill at all or know how to play your class you will be fine. Stop trying to find excuses and blaming it on Bioware for you not being able to pvp. Most ppl on my server dont even have any problem with the pvp brackets. Most actually enjoy the challenge. And i also firmly believe this lvl 50 brackets is too soon esp on the RP servers. 3 hour q's? Why not...

 

Fact is if you can play your class or get premades, regardless of level, you will win. Play Shien which ironically obviously has better pvpers than the pvp servers. Because this QQ gets old.

 

You're Empire, rolling with premades, of course you're going to kill level 50s. Not terribly shocking when you have a team you know for sure is backing you up. Not everyone can get premades, nor should they have to in order to be remotely competitive.

[Maasterrcsaw]

But fact is i can roll a low lvl toon, and id o all the time, with NO problem at all killing level 50's.

 

What has been previously discussed in this thread is the performance of PvP in this game, not the balancing of it.

 

In response to what you want to talk about, which is balance, does "expertise" mean anything to you?

[Marisblood]

"Give it a chance, it's just been released PvP will EVENTUALLY be fixed"

 

Sorry, but no. Releasing a current gen mmo with broken PvP is absurd in a game with a subscription fee.

 

The consumers of today, regardless of their financial status, expect bang for their buck, it goes without saying. I am not being ignorant here. I have a limited understanding of the immense difficulty in producing these kinds of games, but patches are becoming far too convenient for developers. Ofcourse, it's all about money (see the EA icon on the front of the box?), and asking for £8.99 a month while the developers work on the other half of the game is robbery.

 

I want to make it clear here that I am not saying this game should have been released in a perfect state, and it is undeniable that the PvE side is brilliant in terms of leveling content. I am, however, stating PvP should be at a functional level when I enter the multitude of Warzones on offer (3, well, actually just 1 really).

 

For those of you who may reply "uninstall game please" or "if you don't like it go play something else", you have missed the point completely.

 

It is us, the gamers, in this respect; that are being played.

 

 

Ignorant players that lay OP classes (casters or cowboys) should not post here and make jokes for free. They are absurds. And if u dont understand the point go learn what is respect for payers/players and the meaning of words that rulles all bussniss in the wolrd no mater the forms they took: Our clients are the masters!

[kettykat]

We want PvP!

[XenonParsec]

"An epic adventure awaits you! Play Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ and be the

hero of your own Star Wars™ saga in a story-driven massively-multiplayer online game from BioWare and LucasArts."

 

That quote is taken from the game overview on this very site. You're full of it. This game is PVE first, PvP second. Not an afterthought, just not the focus of development.

 

Deal with your unrealistic expectations now.

 

You sound like one of those fanboy purists that wrote 1000 word threads on why SWTOR shouldn't have PvP servers back in 08.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this game is marketed as an mmo. Because that other, more popular mmo has more complete pvp systems, the consumer expects that here as well. If EA is interested in losing about 30-50% of it's subscriber base, it will adhere to obtuse thinking like "well, SWTOR is story-driven so lets focus on moar flashpoints, we don't need that other revenue."

 

Thankfully, measurable effects like retention and profit guide my expectations for this game, not some baseless neckbeard prejudice against another player's preferred method of play.

Edited January 16, 2012 by XenonParsec

[Maasterrcsaw]

Ignorant players that lay OP classes (casters or cowboys) should not post here and make jokes for free. They are absurds. And if u dont understand the point go learn what is respect for payers/players and the meaning of words that rulles all bussniss in the wolrd no mater the forms they took: Our clients are the masters!

 

I'm going to redirect you to the post again. Preferably this time could you read it with a dictionary at hand, seeing how the way you have phrased your response makes you seem like you had trouble reading it the first time.

[Cherlin]

The thing that is over looked is so far we have payed only 60-150 bucks (if you got CE) for ths game which has 8 seperate story lines each 3 times as long as KotoR, which was $60 when i bought it. in my mind that is almost like buying 8, fairly long, games for $60, and thats just pve solo leveling to 50. Now i am paying $15 a month in order to have the MMO aspect, which includes PvP, and PVE endgame content, Flashpoints with other players, and weekly (or bi-monthly) patches that add new content to the game, i will say i have put a lot of play time into this game in a short amount of time, im not proud of it but i have like 9 days of play time already (i know i need to go see the sun or something) which equates to 216+ hours of play time, now i divide 60 by 216, that meens so far i have payed $0.27 per hour to play this game which has entertained me, thats fairly cheap entertainment i would say, and it will continue to lower the amount i pay per hour as time goes on to a point were it will be probably around $0.15 an hour to play a moderate amount of time. that is pretty cheap entertainment i think

[Kryptorchid]

When are MMOs ever 100% complete? New content will always be there while there is a decent amount of subscribers

 

The big thing that people like you fail to understand is, while MMO's always evolve content-wise, they usually have pretty concrete mechanics/system design when they launch, save for a few unintended bugs. What a lot of people are complaining about are issues with the core design of these mechanics and/or systems.

[kettykat]

Lol jk Edited January 16, 2012 by kettykat

[kettykat]

The big thing that people like you fail to understand is, while MMO's always evolve content-wise, they usually have pretty concrete mechanics/system design when they launch, save for a few unintended bugs. What a lot of people are complaining about are issues with the core design of these mechanics and/or systems.

 

So what you are saying that they are not 100% upon launch and then proceed to evolve over time?

 

Thx for agree

[Cherlin]

The big thing that people like you fail to understand is, while MMO's always evolve content-wise, they usually have pretty concrete mechanics/system design when they launch, save for a few unintended bugs. What a lot of people are complaining about are issues with the core design of these mechanics and/or systems.

 

what mmo in history has launched with a completely stable platform? the largest MMO, WoW, has gone through 4 different platforms, and 2 or 3 graphics engines to get to the point it is at. the reason an MMO cannot be perfect on launch is because during beta they do not have enough players in to get enough data to fix everything, the only time they were able to get data for large amounts of players was during the beta stress test, which still was not as many players as there currently are. at the begining of an MMO they are still discovering new bugs, its to be expected, and the success is determined on how efficiently they iron out those bugs. yes they need to optimize this game heavily, but this all takes time. They are working on it and i have high hopes for this MMO

[golfwang]

PvP content is shallow, I agree. Right now, what is there outside of three warzones? Next to nothing.

 

The obvious amount of polish that's gone into pve vs pvp has me unwilling to resub, i'll follow patch notes for a while and see if its worth the $$.

 

If you're looking for a MMO to primarily pvp in at cap, if you're looking for something very different from WoW, if you're looking for depth and variety, this isn't it.

 

Guild Wars 2 is going to revolutionize MMO pvp, it'll become an e-sport more than likely.

Can't say that about TOR at all.

[Revanmug]

Firstly why are you comparing a game that launched in 2004 to a game that launched in late 2011? Do you compare a pc made in 2004 to a pc made in 2011? Do you compare an 10 year old athlete to a 20 year old? You don't, so stop with your "it was better than wow launcher story"

 

You... no... can't be... You just gave a point to bioware right there. No, you don't compare a 10 years old to a 20 years. You actually wait until the yougest reach 20 then compare to second athlete old stats...

 

This irony is just full of win.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Revanmug

[Maasterrcsaw]

what mmo in history has launched with a completely stable platform? the largest MMO, WoW, has gone through 4 different platforms, and 2 or 3 graphics engines to get to the point it is at. the reason an MMO cannot be perfect on launch is because during beta they do not have enough players in to get enough data to fix everything, the only time they were able to get data for large amounts of players was during the beta stress test, which still was not as many players as there currently are. at the begining of an MMO they are still discovering new bugs, its to be expected, and the success is determined on how efficiently they iron out those bugs. yes they need to optimize this game heavily, but this all takes time. They are working on it and i have high hopes for this MMO

 

Comparing the launch of WoW to SWTOR is irrelevant. There is no disputing over the fact MMO's launch with bugs and imperfections. The fact is a core mechanic, PvP, is not up to scratch. The fact is it is needed to be FIXED by patches, not IMPROVED.

[MPagano]

Not a pvp game

[Senefera]

The big thing that people like you fail to understand is, while MMO's always evolve content-wise, they usually have pretty concrete mechanics/system design when they launch, save for a few unintended bugs. What a lot of people are complaining about are issues with the core design of these mechanics and/or systems.

 

Name one that had this at launch.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Senefera