Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[MalignX]

Originally Posted by DamionSchubert

Improving our LFG system is high on the list of features that Systems Design wants to add to the game. We want this to be good not just for helping people find Flashpoints and Operations to run, but also other multiplayer content like heroic missions. A key emphasis will be on advertising for specific role needs (healer, tank, DPS). This feature is currently in the design stage, and once this feature has moved beyond this to a development stage and has a firm ETA, I'll be coming back to you guys to give more details.

 

We've known we would need to revisit this feature for a while. In the level-up game, finding players isn't too rough because, with few exceptions, everyone in that level band is either on your planet or on the fleet. Once more and more players hit endgame, and are spending their time in more places, the need for this feature is going to increase. Note that right now, high level players have the opposite problem - there aren't enough other players up there to group with. This problem will dissipate as the game ages, and more players reach the later levels.

 

 

 

Again - it's happening. The only thing keeping x-servers is the possibility of jerks? Heh. Hope no one wanders aimlessly outside their front door for fear of meanies.

Edited January 26, 2012 by MalignX

[Frostbird]

Seriously? 100% accountability on virtual "community"? Come on man, this is a hobby for most of us, something we do for fun. It's not a job, or an essential part of our lives.

 

As said thousands of times before, LFG with the following basic options:

 

- checkbox for intra server only

- checkbox for no teleport to FP

- vote to kick

- Operation loot system (ie, pre-rolled items)

 

Simple, use it however way you like. Afraid of jerks from other servers? Don't use it, or check the box for intra server only. Have time to go from Belsavis north bonus area back to the fleet without Fleet Pass/Quick travel? By all means, enjoy the view.

 

Just don't force your play style on others.

Pretty much /thread.

[HoopzMV]

My god, there's so much discussion on this topic. What I've seen from both sides, I honestly don't know which one to go along with. I can't even tell if even some of you are exaggerating or not. It could also be that my mind is being boggled that there were communities outside of the RP servers.

 

I know for certain that the LFD tool is just for convenience purposes for that don't have the time others have to play the content of the game. If anything does destroy communities, it isn't the LFD tool. I'd say it's more the people who are the cause for destroying communities. The whole argument is pretty much an argument on the same lines of: those saying guns kill people and those that say people kill people.

 

I may not have the experience that most of you have, but I do recognize and know what each side is saying. Unfortunately, I can only offer my experience and words with the WoW LFG system, but I would like to share my words on this subject.

 

The WoW LFG system overall was a nice addition and system that Blizzard has implemented, but it's far from being perfect or the best. Even now the system can be broken from time to time, but at the same time it can work exactly like it was meant to. Yet, the system has a lot of room to be innovated and could be made better.

 

Before the LFG system, non-RP servers really didn't have much of a community to begin with, and many people were looking forward to this convenient tool. And after the system came, nothing really changed in the community for better or worse. Then, I came into the highlights of the RP community and totally loved that opportunity of a rich community. I do understand of where the concerns are with the people claiming it destroys communities, but I also understand the claims people are making about it not destroying communities.

 

Now the only gripe I have with the WoW's LFG system was the queue system. At times the queue wasn't really long as a dps, and it was nice getting instant queues as tank or five or less minute queues as healer. But as DPS, I had the most unsatisfying time with queues. Sometimes it wasn't bad waiting around 10 to 20 mins, while at times the queue could take about thirty minutes, and a lot of other people can easily claim the same amount of time they waited: may it be in guilds, in trade chat, and even in forums. Yet, I and a few others had the queue where it was pretty much broken; where the queue would at times keep on increasing and decreasing for around forty minutes, and then when we do people would mostly be afk to accept the invitation, so we'd be waiting for maybe a minute or few or wait another twenty. I do realize that only a few percent of people were dealing with this, but as well realize that another few percent were fine and another were having some other problem.

 

In truth, the LFG systems can be flawed and somewhat broken, but in the end it leaves room to improve.

[Touchbass]

My god, there's so much discussion on this topic.

 

*SNIP*

 

In truth, the LFG systems can be flawed and somewhat broken, but in the end it leaves room to improve.

 

Welcome to our thread Hoopz. Thank you for your post, that was some interesting original insight into the RP community. Hopefully you'll stay around and contribute some more!

Edited January 26, 2012 by Touchbass

[Frostbird]

My god, there's so much discussion on this topic. What I've seen from both sides, I honestly don't know which one to go along with. I can't even tell if even some of you are exaggerating or not. It could also be that my mind is being boggled that there were communities outside of the RP servers.

 

I know for certain that the LFD tool is just for convenience purposes for that don't have the time others have to play the content of the game. If anything does destroy communities, it isn't the LFD tool. I'd say it's more the people who are the cause for destroying communities. The whole argument is pretty much an argument on the same lines of: those saying guns kill people and those that say people kill people.

 

I may not have the experience that most of you have, but I do recognize and know what each side is saying. Unfortunately, I can only offer my experience and words with the WoW LFG system, but I would like to share my words on this subject.

 

The WoW LFG system overall was a nice addition and system that Blizzard has implemented, but it's far from being perfect or the best. Even now the system can be broken from time to time, but at the same time it can work exactly like it was meant to. Yet, the system has a lot of room to be innovated and could be made better.

 

Before the LFG system, non-RP servers really didn't have much of a community to begin with, and many people were looking forward to this convenient tool. And after the system came, nothing really changed in the community for better or worse. Then, I came into the highlights of the RP community and totally loved that opportunity of a rich community. I do understand of where the concerns are with the people claiming it destroys communities, but I also understand the claims people are making about it not destroying communities.

 

Now the only gripe I have with the WoW's LFG system was the queue system. At times the queue wasn't really long as a dps, and it was nice getting instant queues as tank or five or less minute queues as healer. But as DPS, I had the most unsatisfying time with queues. Sometimes it wasn't bad waiting around 10 to 20 mins, while at times the queue could take about thirty minutes, and a lot of other people can easily claim the same amount of time they waited: may it be in guilds, in trade chat, and even in forums. Yet, I and a few others had the queue where it was pretty much broken; where the queue would at times keep on increasing and decreasing for around forty minutes, and then when we do people would mostly be afk to accept the invitation, so we'd be waiting for maybe a minute or few or wait another twenty. I do realize that only a few percent of people were dealing with this, but as well realize that another few percent were fine and another were having some other problem.

 

In truth, the LFG systems can be flawed and somewhat broken, but in the end it leaves room to improve.

 

 

A lot of people I've seen posting have an overly rose-tinted view of some great 'Server Community" which, to be honest, I've seldom seen much of. Well, seldom seen much *good* of.

 

Low pop servers are the only place where you generally find a tight community, ditto in guilds - and low pop servers mean that chances are you are going to have a miserable time grouping.

 

High pop servers...the people that interact with the 'community' are usually the toxic /1 trolls. Everyone else is either with their guild or just trying to play the game.

 

As I said earlier - if I want to socialize I will chat with my guildies. If I want to play a Multiplayer game I will attempt to do an instance.

 

In games with automated finders this means 1-20 minutes wait in which I am free to do what I want.

In games without, it means 20-30 minutes of spamming /1, plus getting everyone together, plus going to instance (so lets say 20-40 minutes of overhead) just to do a run. During this time I can't do anything else. And that's *if* I can actually find people. And I play on a High Pop server - I can't imagine how obnoxious it must be for a Low Pop.

 

Personally, I just want to spend the maximum amount of time killing dragons/sith/robots/demons with other players, not faffing around or chatting. As I said earlier - it's a lot like joining a pick up soccer game. You are there to play with others, not to chat. I guess you could call me "Casualcore". I am a longtime gamer who is generally polite, competant but lacks regular 'block' free time these days.

 

The lack of what is now the standard Cross server PvP/instance finder is what is going to make or break this game. Sure, some people are going to moan about server community, casuals on their lawn, how they used to walk uphill to Molten Core in snow back in their day and so everyone should have to do the same in perpetuity. But sod them. I don't have time for that sort of overhead these days.

 

If SWTOR doesn't make an effort to accomodate me (and the other 'casualcores') then they are going to lose a pretty big chunk of their playerbase once they get sick of leveling and want to try the endgame.

 

PS: I see trolls, griefers and idiots in LFD in WoW. I saw them pre LFD in WoW too. I see them here in SWTOR. No one cares in any case.

[Touchbass]

 

.If SWTOR doesn't make an effort to accomodate me (and the other 'casualcores') then they are going to lose a pretty big chunk of their playerbase once they get sick of leveling and want to try the endgame.

.

 

I'm in the leveling process now and it's a real pain just to find planet heroic groups sometimes if a tank isn't around. I don't know how much of this I am going to able to take at 50, I may roll a couple alts to check out a few more stories and then I just may bounce to something else more acccommodating.

[Skann]

Long queues are better than nothing, I suppose. You know that, eventually (within 30-40m, usually) something will pop-up, even if it's 3am.

 

With that said, I blame Bioware for their total lack of vision in terms of classes. Not only you don't have a dual-spec system to facilitate group formation, the tank classes are "locked".

 

In Rift 3 out of the 4 classes could tank. In SWTOR 3 out of 8 ACs can tank. It's almost silly if it wasn't sad. I really hope that down the road BW scraps the AC non-sense and give the 6 trees to every base class. I mean, pure-dps classes in this day and age? I almost feel sorry for Snipers and Marauders.

 

Blizzard knows better: bring the player, not the class.

 

Hopefully BW will learn that lesson in time.

[Frostbird]

Long queues are better than nothing, I suppose. You know that, eventually (within 30-40m, usually) something will pop-up, even if it's 3am.

 

With that said, I blame Bioware for their total lack of vision in terms of classes. Not only you don't have a dual-spec system to facilitate group formation, the tank classes are "locked".

 

In Rift 3 out of the 4 classes could tank. In SWTOR 3 out of 8 ACs can tank. It's almost silly if it wasn't sad. I really hope that down the road BW scraps the AC non-sense and give the 6 trees to every base class. I mean, pure-dps classes in this day and age? I almost feel sorry for Snipers and Marauders.

 

Blizzard knows better: bring the player, not the class.

 

Hopefully BW will learn that lesson in time.

 

 

Another problem is that:

 

1 tank (JK/SW) is currently underpowered, overcomplicated/skillbloated and not too much fun to play unless you have a gaming mouse or a third arm.

 

1 tank (Cons/Inq) is the alternate AC of what is arguably the most popular, powerful pvp spec, healer and ranged dps in game at present.

 

1 tank is a ranged tank - a very new concept that while actually very strong is not familiar or attractive to a lot of people.

 

I love tanking and always find myself in this role in games. Here though...eh. The only class that appeals to me is the Assasain and it's story/levelling experience just does *not* appeal to me.

 

This game needs Dual Spec and a way to switch ACs *badly*.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Frostbird

[Skann]

This game needs Dual Spec and a way to switch ACs *badly*.

 

The concept might appeal on paper, but in reality it's a pain (ACs). Rift spec system is almost the best on the market. Give as many roles to as much people as you can. Let they play together however way the situation requires.

 

Then you get rid of the "mythic" skill tree (hello Pandaria), since inevitably they lead to cookie cutter specs, and you have an ideal class system.

[HoopzMV]

I do agree with most of what you say, Frost, and honestly a community is whatever you make out of it. A lot of people haven't had the opportunity to find a good server community, but no need to force anyone into something they do not want to do. You really don't need to be apart of a community of that kind to enjoy this game, but a few friends or a guild can make the experience better.

 

For now, I'm putting my trust in Bioware in improving their LFG system, and I can't wait to see of what they do. Hell, it may even be better then most systems now, or it could just suck and they may revise their thoughts on cross-server LFD. Yes, it may be the standard to have cross-server systems now, but I respect Bioware in trying something different.

[Touchbass]

 

Another problem is that:

 

1 tank (JK/SW) is currently underpowered, overcomplicated/skillbloated and not too much fun to play unless you have a gaming mouse or a third arm.

 

1 tank (Cons/Inq) is the alternate AC of what is arguably the most popular, powerful pvp spec, healer and ranged dps in game at present.

 

1 tank is a ranged tank - a very new concept that while actually very strong is not familiar or attractive to a lot of people.

 

I love tanking and always find myself in this role in games. Here though...eh. The only class that appeals to me is the Assasain and it's story/levelling experience just does *not* appeal to me.

 

This game needs Dual Spec and a way to switch ACs *badly*.

 

I really want to try out what it's like to tank on a BH, problem is I'm a healer so I took the healer path. I am not going to go through the class quests again

[SilverandGold]

BUMP for dual spec and BUMP for Dungeon Finder and to go out on a limb here maybe do something for the 4+ heroic dailies as well.

[Frostbird]

I do agree with most of what you say, Frost, and honestly a community is whatever you make out of it. A lot of people haven't had the opportunity to find a good server community, but no need to force anyone into something they do not want to do. You really don't need to be apart of a community of that kind to enjoy this game, but a few friends or a guild can make the experience better.

 

For now, I'm putting my trust in Bioware in improving their LFG system, and I can't wait to see of what they do. Hell, it may even be better then most systems now, or it could just suck and they may revise their thoughts on cross-server LFD. Yes, it may be the standard to have cross-server systems now, but I respect Bioware in trying something different.

 

Bioware still seem stuck on the "oh noes server community is gonna die!" stream of thought since everything they have said seems to indicate they are building something similar to the old WoW LFG tool. And we all know how easy that made finding a group for leveling dungeons! /sarcasm.

 

I am not saying make every instance accessible through automated finders. Top tier content should be guild exclusive (and with challenge/rewards to reflect that). I am actually for incentivizing same server groups (social points etc.). But a lot of us just want to jump in and play - Blizzard got this which is why the LFD/LFR system is what is holding that rotting community together (seriously, just check stats of how many people use it compared to traditional grouping).

 

At this rate, while they have made one hell of a cool game here, Bioware are making the same mistake Blizzard did in T11 - trying to appeal to the 'oldschool' demographic, without realizing that most of those people are...well, like me now. We didn't give up on games because they were too 'casual' - we became casuals ourselves.

[Frostbird]

I really want to try out what it's like to tank on a BH, problem is I'm a healer so I took the healer path. I am not going to go through the class quests again

 

Bingo.

 

I love to tank! I would *love* to do so at endgame. However leveling as that spec is a horrible prospect to me on an Inq. If Bioware let me level as a sorc and then cross over (even for say a million creds) I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

Ditto Merc/Powertech.

[Manathayria]

 

A lot of people I've seen posting have an overly rose-tinted view of some great 'Server Community" which, to be honest, I've seldom seen much of. Well, seldom seen much *good* of.

 

Low pop servers are the only place where you generally find a tight community, ditto in guilds - and low pop servers mean that chances are you are going to have a miserable time grouping.

 

High pop servers...the people that interact with the 'community' are usually the toxic /1 trolls. Everyone else is either with their guild or just trying to play the game.

I think, some of the difference is - rp servers. RP servers usually have a much stronger sense of community than normal servers. Quite possibly because we do enjoy just sitting around chatting as much as running the dungeons, usually if I end up in groups (again, going back to wow) where there are more people from rp servers, we talk more in the dungeons too.

 

As I said before, I'm pro LFD tool, and if it falls flat (which I expect - because I don't have the rose tinted glasses on regarding low pop servers/off hours) I'm open to LFD-cross server, though I'd like it if that gave those that are strong anit-cross servers the option within the system to go server only.

[Skann]

I think, some of the difference is - rp servers. RP servers usually have a much stronger sense of community than normal servers. Quite possibly because we do enjoy just sitting around chatting as much as running the dungeons, usually if I end up in groups (again, going back to wow) where there are more people from rp servers, we talk more in the dungeons too.

 

As I said before, I'm pro LFD tool, and if it falls flat (which I expect - because I don't have the rose tinted glasses on regarding low pop servers/off hours) I'm open to LFD-cross server, though I'd like it if that gave those that are strong anit-cross servers the option within the system to go server only.

 

Everybody pro-LFG advocates this option. We don't want to force people to play cross-server as much as we don't want to be forced to play within our server only.

 

I rather it comes sooner rather than later. It today's age of instant profits of huge companies, it's not like a 100+ million USD project has forever to return the investment. The IP is strong, all involved is "filthy rich", but still, 6 months from now if the number of subscribers is smaller than the "board" expectation, who knows where things will head.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Skann

[HoopzMV]

Bioware still seem stuck on the "oh noes server community is gonna die!" stream of thought since everything they have said seems to indicate they are building something similar to the old WoW LFG tool. And we all know how easy that made finding a group for leveling dungeons! /sarcasm.

 

I am not saying make every instance accessible through automated finders. Top tier content should be guild exclusive (and with challenge/rewards to reflect that). I am actually for incentivizing same server groups (social points etc.). But a lot of us just want to jump in and play - Blizzard got this which is why the LFD/LFR system is what is holding that rotting community together (seriously, just check stats of how many people use it compared to traditional grouping).

 

At this rate, while they have made one hell of a cool game here, Bioware are making the same mistake Blizzard did in T11 - trying to appeal to the 'oldschool' demographic, without realizing that most of those people are...well, like me now. We didn't give up on games because they were too 'casual' - we became casuals ourselves.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Despite it being about a month since it came out, the game is still relatively new and Bioware has a lot of options to choose from continue to make this game better, but at the same time they are taking a lot of risks with the plan they have now.

 

Yet, they could make a lot of good out of not starting out with everything, and with time we may get the functions other MMOs have that could possibly be better than what most MMOs have. I just hope they can make those decisions to add them before it's too late.

[Touchbass]

Shouldn't this thread of capped by now?

[Neiloch]

How about this: If we can't spend several hours a day dedicated to setting up friends/guilds just so I can run group content, and you don't want a LFD system in place, what do you propose we do? I await your answer.

 

PS: if your answer is' this game isnt for you' or 'quit' take that over to BioWare and see how well that strategy goes over.

 

Never did see an answer to this.

[Manathayria]

Originally Posted by Neiloch

How about this: If we can't spend several hours a day dedicated to setting up friends/guilds just so I can run group content, and you don't want a LFD system in place, what do you propose we do? I await your answer.

 

While I think some people would like to give the answer you mentioned - truth so far appears to be that we're all looking at the LFD tool and going 'Neat, we're getting something!'

 

What people are still resistant to is the concept of cross server, which, it appears bioware is just as hung up on the concept that it may (or may not) harm community and wishes to see how people fare in a server only LFD tool.

 

I think some would answer with 'well you can farm till you have enough time' or 'well get a guild'. However, if you really hate both that doesn't leave many options - and I think Bioware and the rest of us that do enjoy instancing can agree - that's not acceptable. You should be able to enjoy the game your way - just as the rest of us should be able to.

 

I've seen several times the option for a compromise for the different play styles (within system) proposed - now we really just need to see what action Bioware takes as it's up to them in the end.

[Touchbass]

I've seen several times the option for a compromise for the different play styles (within system) proposed - now we really just need to see what action Bioware takes as it's up to them in the end.

 

I like your Signature Mana

[AeonWeapon]

I haven't posted for a few pages, so: still here! lol

*spampost*

[Apache]

Just thought I would check in here. Earlier in this thread I stated that I was mostly a solo player but that I supported a LFG tool.

 

However I was curious to see just how bad all these claims were about not being able to find groups during leveling content. So I rolled a Tank alt. Sith warrior wich is now level 25.

 

And yep. They were right. Its like pulling teeth with a toilet plunger when trying to find groups.

 

I still have group quests on Balmorra and even DK that I havnt finished because I couldnt find a group and Im easily more than half way done with Nar Shadda. I dumped the DK ones because I cant get any xp for those anymore now anyway.

 

I still go back to Balmorra from time to time and sit in /1 and spam: Tank LFG <insert whatever quest> for atleast 1 hour before getting bored and moving back over to Nar Shadda, but I suspect I will be dumping the Balmorra quests too. In the time I spend sitting around spamming /1 on Balmorra, I could be level 30 if I just moved on.

 

I think a lot of people do this. They finish thier normal quests and then try and find a group by spamming /1 to find a group. But they dont want to waste All thier time standing around spamming /1 so they run off to the next planet. And since they are unable to see the last planets /1 chat, they miss any chances at seeing other people looking for groups.

 

And the /who command to find groups only works if your on That planet. So it does no good if you decide to go on your way and hope to find groups for the planet you just left.

 

So Im glad BW is looking into creating a LFG tool. Now that Ive actually expierenced how difficult it is right now to find groups, I feel it is definately needed.

 

/cheers

[Touchbass]

Just thought I would check in here. Earlier in this thread I stated that I was mostly a solo player but that I supported a LFG tool.

 

However I was curious to see just how bad all these claims were about not being able to find groups during leveling content. So I rolled a Tank alt. Sith warrior wich is now level 25.

 

And yep. They were right. Its like pulling teeth with a toilet plunger when trying to find groups.

 

I still have group quests on Balmorra and even DK that I havnt finished because I couldnt find a group and Im easily more than half way done with Nar Shadda. I dumped the DK ones because I cant get any xp for those anymore now anyway.

 

I still go back to Balmorra from time to time and sit in /1 and spam: Tank LFG <insert whatever quest> for atleast 1 hour before getting bored and moving back over to Nar Shadda, but I suspect I will be dumping the Balmorra quests too. In the time I spend sitting around spamming /1 on Balmorra, I could be level 30 if I just moved on.

 

I think a lot of people do this. They finish thier normal quests and then try and find a group by spamming /1 to find a group. But they dont want to waste All thier time standing around spamming /1 so they run off to the next planet. And since they are unable to see the last planets /1 chat, they miss any chances at seeing other people looking for groups.

 

And the /who command to find groups only works if your on That planet. So it does no good if you decide to go on your way and hope to find groups for the planet you just left.

 

So Im glad BW is looking into creating a LFG tool. Now that Ive actually expierenced how difficult it is right now to find groups, I feel it is definately needed.

 

/cheers

 

Bioware dropped the ball on all these group quests on planets, it's been shown that group quests don't work very well in leveling content.

[BlueSkittles]

Bioware dropped the ball on all these group quests on planets, it's been shown that group quests don't work very well in leveling content.

 

While I agree on your point, Touch. I'm very curious to see what Bioware pulls out of their hat with their LFG tool. Since they included group quests as one of the things they want to improve in the tool. Personally, and this is just off the cuff, I would love to see a full LFD-like tool for group quests: get quest from quest giver, queue by specific quest/s, teleports you there, do quests with group, teleports you back to where you were.