Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[Touchbass]

Yeah really, the "work at it" arguments about ANYTHING in the game is ridiculous to me. I can tell you this, if a game starts to feel like work, I stop playing it. I already have a job, I play a game for fun, not for work. I want simple functions like getting a team together and getting into group content to be easy, simple, fast and convenient, not to waste and hour of my 2 hours of play time.

 

More and more people are feeling this way Btw I'm glad you've engaged in our communal voice about the subject. Gotta keep the post live and full of attention!

 

Does anyone know how to flag a post for a star? Don't seem to know how to exactly

[BlueSkittles]

You dont need a LFD tool. I makes people lazier then they already are. Join a guild, make friends problem solved.

 

Here Read. http://www.machiavelliscat.com/lioreblog/2011/12/28/the-cast-against-lf/

Its all FACT. You do not need it.

 

Read the article. States absolutely nothing new, just the same old rhetoric that if you're on a popular server, have active guilds, and people posting on server specific boards, life will be all peaches and cream, bad people will go to hell, and mana will rain down from heaven. Which is completely wrong on low pop servers and on high pop servers at non-peak times. And for people like me who have a hard time putting together groups the old-fashioned way due to many factors, such as being responsible for others fun is not fun.

 

Does anyone know how to flag a post for a star? Don't seem to know how to exactly

 

Hey Touch! Not sure you can flag a single post for a star but you rate the whole thread with one to five stars. When you make a reply, there is an option to rate the thread when you scroll down.

[AeonWeapon]

More and more people are feeling this way Btw I'm glad you've engaged in our communal voice about the subject. Gotta keep the post live and full of attention!

 

Loud and proud brother lol

Edited January 22, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[evildestroyer]

This is what happens when we find a party by spamming chat

"LF3M Hard FP"

"LF2M Need 1 healer and 1 dps"

"LF1M Need 1 healer and good to go""LF1M Need 1 healer and good to go"

"LF1M Need 1 healer and good to go""LF1M Need 1 healer and good to go"

"LF1M Need 1 healer and good to go""LF1M Need 1 healer and good to go"

"LF1M Need 1 healer and good to go""LF1M Need 1 healer and good to go"

 

Party finally forms 30 mins later.

Everyone says "hi"

Dungeon ends

Everyone says "Bye"

 

A LFG tool is optional and no one is forcing anyone to use it. Those people that dont want a LFG have no lives and rather spend 30 mins finding a group. But us for example rather spend 1 minute. People say join guilds, well a lot of people are in guilds and you have to go when everyone is ready not when you are only.

 

Rift has a perfect LFG tool, its Cross server LFG so it even makes getting groups faster.

[Psychode]

Taken part in another post on this subject (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=204696&page=7) and going to make a collage of various things i said there

 

TLDR version: Yes for LFD tool, no for cross-server anything.

Edit: Removed quote tags so it's easier for people to tell me i'm wrong

 

Even with cross-server LFG, it easily took hours for dps to actually get in one, might as well have stuck to server only there.

 

I prefer server only FP finder (/preparing to be yelled at now). If people were good players you could stay in touch, meet people etc.

Most cross-server lfd groups i've done were done in stony silence. Except when somebody did something wrong, then there was "omg you idiot". What also happened quite often is that you ended up with people from the unofficial Russian or whatever server, and they'd be chattering in some random language between them and you'd jsut sit there going "...eyup..."

And kicking people who were bad/jerks? Please, you couldnt afford that if they were a tank or healer, beause then it would be another hour of waiting, and as somebody mentioned earlier, especially the tanks knew that and easily yelled at people, blaming them for their own mistakes, etc....

 

The only place where cross-server might've done some good was pvp, but even then it was kinda sad not being able to joke around anymore with people you knew, being all like "hur dur i killed you", because the chances of seeing them would be.... yeah, lets not go there.

 

If you play on off-peak hours on your server, has it ever occured to you that they will also be off-peak on other servers? Unless of course they throw the world together, which seems rather messy.

Though i do admit there would be a better chance of getting a group then.

 

Part of the fun of playing an MMO is meeting new people and keeping in touch with them, in cross-server things, that doesn't happen. Unless you've gotten cosy enough that you're exchanging e-mails in the period it took to finish (or fail) the fp, and even then you wouldnt really be playing together. The only new people would be new people in your guild, or maybe during leveling, something which eventually does stop if you're not an alt person.

 

Meeting new people is, for me, something which keeps the game interesting. If that gets taken out... Well, i won't quit until the game holds no interest whatsoever for me anymore, but it does make it more boring.

 

And i repeat: No, yelling LFG in a chat channel for 4 hours is not required for that, i agree it'd outdated and annoying, and it does not do anything for any type of "community" since the most words exchanged there are "LFG/LFM" and if you're lucky "inv".

 

I edited my original post with a comment on the article you linked, probably while you were writing your post

Edit2: The article you linked equates a LFG tool with the cross-server version. This is just 1 version of it, and arguably the worst. There are other versions.

A LFG tool isn't needed, no, but it's something that could make our time off better without having any bad consequences, if it's done right.

 

I know about scheduling, i was in a hardcore guild, we've actually tried it on and off in my current guild, and one of the officers vaguely mentioned something about doing some regular scheduling soon now we're starting to get more 50s, funnily enough, our problem is a lack of dps though Scheduling is good i guess, but there will always be conflicts. 1 of our 2 healers can't play weekends, there's a tank/dps couple who i've never seen online seperately.... There's always something.

 

It also feels ridiculous to ask the leaders of a casual guild to go on a recruit drive. The way we recruit is "oh, hey, you seem to have the right attitude, feel like joining us?". For a guild as ours, that's a perfect way to do it.

 

I'm not asking you for suggestions on what to do, i'm explaining my situation, one that isnt so uncommon, to hopefully make you understand that a LFG tool doesn't NEED to be bad. With proper design it can be a very useful tool making life easier for a lot of people.

Including you, who might otherwise have problems finding people with good enough gear and/or FP experience for raiding

Edited January 22, 2012 by Psychode

[Touchbass]

Read the article. States absolutely nothing new, just the same old rhetoric that if you're on a popular server, have active guilds, and people posting on server specific boards, life will be all peaches and cream, bad people will go to hell, and mana will rain down from heaven. Which is completely wrong on low pop servers and on high pop servers at non-peak times. And for people like me who have a hard time putting together groups the old-fashioned way due to many factors, such as being responsible for others fun is not fun.

 

 

Hey Touch! Not sure you can flag a single post for a star but you rate the whole thread with one to five stars. When you make a reply, there is an option to rate the thread when you scroll down.

 

Yeah the dichotomy of the situation is for some of us the game works great and any changes can only hinder thier game play since they are in their perfect state of enjoyment. Flip side is people are in the worst state possible and the only way they can progress is through government, I mean Bioware intervention.

 

Thanks Blue, put that info to good use already You know how to post a "Spoiler drop down menu" option?

[evildestroyer]

Taken part in another post on this subject (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=204696&page=7) and going to make a collage of various things i said there

 

TLDR version: Yes for LFD tool, no for cross-server anything.

 

A cross server tool will be needed eventually. Its a fact and i am sure they will add it when the time comes. If not this game will die without it, for people that are leveling it will be impossible to find a group. When a server has all raid geared lv 50 players, for any new lv 50 player that want to get a party in a FP will take forever also.

[raidyr]

+1 for Flashpoint Finder. Can be same-server at launch but preferably turned into full cross-server system at some point

[svenholio]

No lfd please.

[Zachajariah]

I'm not against an LFD tool, I just feel it will take away from the immersion. At least this is what I used to think.

 

Having a tool that would save time gives players time to do other things like world PvP, guild ship or even ( hopefully ) cantina mini-games, etc. IMO the best option would be to make more mini games, that way people can gather in those places and just say ( with chat bubbles integrated /face palm ) "hey anybody wanna do a heroic?". Instead of everybody standing around twiddling their thumbs while we wait for a queue.

 

P.s. NEVER add x-server ANYTHING, please!

[Touchbass]

Taken part in another post on this subject (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=204696&page=7) and going to make a collage of various things i said there

 

TLDR version: Yes for LFD tool, no for cross-server anything.

 

Thanks for taking the time to selectively pick up some posts Psychode. The thought of the FP thread didn't even occur to me, great addition to our conversation.

 

Even with cross-server LFG, it easily took hours for dps to actually get in one, might as well have stuck to server only there.

- This is misrepresentation, the most in demand content at most has a 30 minute queue and it drops from there to as little as 5-11 minutes for leveling content and normal dungeons

 

I prefer server only FP finder (/preparing to be yelled at now). If people were good players you could stay in touch, meet people etc.

- In it's current state in WoW, you can group again with people through the Real I.D feature, I've grouped with people numerous times through X-server features

 

Most cross-server lfd groups i've done were done in stony silence. Except when somebody did something wrong, then there was "omg you idiot". What also happened quite often is that you ended up with people from the unofficial Russian or whatever server, and they'd be chattering in some random language between them and you'd jsut sit there going "...eyup..."

- This is opinion on a small biased sample size. Most groups in SWTOR don't have pivotal discussion from what I've personally witnessed. Players are more forgiving now because people don't know what they are doing, that issue you are referencing is not a X-LFD issue but a game maturity issue when the players who remain become jaded

 

And kicking people who were bad/jerks? Please, you couldnt afford that if they were a tank or healer, beause then it would be another hour of waiting, and as somebody mentioned earlier, especially the tanks knew that and easily yelled at people, blaming them for their own mistakes, etc....

- Yes agreed

 

If you play on off-peak hours on your server, has it ever occured to you that they will also be off-peak on other servers? Unless of course they throw the world together, which seems rather messy.

Though i do admit there would be a better chance of getting a group then.

- This is really where people need the X-LFD

 

 

Part of the fun of playing an MMO is meeting new people and keeping in touch with them, in cross-server things, that doesn't happen. Unless you've gotten cosy enough that you're exchanging e-mails in the period it took to finish (or fail) the fp, and even then you wouldnt really be playing together. The only new people would be new people in your guild, or maybe during leveling, something which eventually does stop if you're not an alt person.

- This is a constant theme I keep witnessing. Do you use the tool then. While you are out questing do a /1 Hey is anyone interested in forming a group or ask in /fleet. After a reasonable amount of time if no one replies then simply use the tool then.

 

Meeting new people is, for me, something which keeps the game interesting. If that gets taken out... Well, i won't quit until the game holds no interest whatsoever for me anymore, but it does make it more boring.

- There are other ways of meeting players, and again do not use the tool.

 

 

I know about scheduling, i was in a hardcore guild, we've actually tried it on and off in my current guild, and one of the officers vaguely mentioned something about doing some regular scheduling soon now we're starting to get more 50s, funnily enough, our problem is a lack of dps though Scheduling is good i guess, but there will always be conflicts. 1 of our 2 healers can't play weekends, there's a tank/dps couple who i've never seen online seperately.... There's always something.

- The X-LFD tool or any improved internal tool would fix that, scheduling is a nightmare for people when they haven't been screened for availability

 

 

I'm not asking you for suggestions on what to do, i'm explaining my situation, one that isnt so uncommon, to hopefully make you understand that a LFG tool doesn't NEED to be bad. With proper design it can be a very useful tool making life easier for a lot of people.

Including you, who might otherwise have problems finding people with good enough gear and/or FP experience for raiding

- Hopefully

[Zachajariah]

One thing to add:

 

Please don't ever integrate an LFR(aid) system.

 

I quit WoW right before firelands and came back right when Deathwing was released. Well, I think around 4.3 with LFR. First time I did the new raids I was in full season 10 PvP gear on my priest, specced disc. Also note, I was highly intoxicated! The 2 new raids took about half an hour / 45 minutes each to complete. Deathwing included. I topped the healing charts in full PvP gear.... Kinda sad.

 

This experience, while neat, was absolutely pathetic. It felt like a regular dungeon( not heroic ) with 25 players. It completely took away from the immersion and just overall raiding experience. The ADHD generation of gamers was listened to by Blizzard and I REALLY don't want Bioware to go in this direction.

[AeonWeapon]

One thing to add:

 

Please don't ever integrate an LFR(aid) system.

 

I quit WoW right before firelands and came back right when Deathwing was released. Well, I think around 4.3 with LFR. First time I did the new raids I was in full season 10 PvP gear on my priest, specced disc. Also note, I was highly intoxicated! The 2 new raids took about half an hour / 45 minutes each to complete. Deathwing included. I topped the healing charts in full PvP gear.... Kinda sad.

 

This experience, while neat, was absolutely pathetic. It felt like a regular dungeon( not heroic ) with 25 players. It completely took away from the immersion and just overall raiding experience. The ADHD generation of gamers was listened to by Blizzard and I REALLY don't want Bioware to go in this direction.

 

Don't get your point... an LFR tool is bad because you felt new dungeons were added and they were too easy when you ran them in the best gear in your game? I don't understand how A leads to B there.

 

Then again, I'm not a warcraft player.

 

One thing though... I am really tired of people thinking that because they had some bad experience in warcraft that all games will be the same. I've played other games with great tools for finding teams and they didn't have any problems. Maybe the problem is that warcraft is a cartoon game geared towards kids, so there's less mature players?

Edited January 22, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[BlueSkittles]

Here are two great videos by Devolore from Tankspot who puts together a logical argument of why a Dungeon Finder system may partially hurt community, but in the long run is better for gameplay. It's a long-ish video (13 minutes) but worth watching for an elegant argument that applies to SWTOR.

 

The Weekly Marmot - Is LFG/LFR Ruining the WoW Community?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amkywcdK1RI&feature=colike

 

And a newer video discussing "How can Blizzard rebuild the WoW community?" and "Does LFR make people burn out faster?" Some great arguments for Blizzard's new upcoming Battle Tag system which lets players friend people from other servers by using their Battle Tag username only, which would go a long way to keep that sense of "community" if a similar system was implemented in SWTOR .

PST - Episode 63 (starts around the 9 minute mark where the relevant discussion starts)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsDFoQiED7A&feature=colike#t=09m29s

 

Thanks Blue, put that info to good use already You know how to post a "Spoiler drop down menu" option?

 

That I do not know, sorry.

[Psychode]

Even with cross-server LFG, it easily took hours for dps to actually get in one, might as well have stuck to server only there.

- This is misrepresentation, the most in demand content at most has a 30 minute queue and it drops from there to as little as 5-11 minutes for leveling content and normal dungeons

I admit it's been a while, and "hours" is an exageration, but whenever i, as a dps, used the cross server-tool, i expected to have a wait time of at least 30-45 minutes.

 

I prefer server only FP finder (/preparing to be yelled at now). If people were good players you could stay in touch, meet people etc.

- In it's current state in WoW, you can group again with people through the Real I.D feature, I've grouped with people numerous times through X-server features

The Real ID for me was used to stay in touch with RL friends and people i got close to online, it's not something i'm randomly going to give out to people simply because i thought they played well and enjoyed their company. Also at the point i played, it was only possible to use it for talking, i didn't know they went further there.

 

Most cross-server lfd groups i've done were done in stony silence. Except when somebody did something wrong, then there was "omg you idiot". What also happened quite often is that you ended up with people from the unofficial Russian or whatever server, and they'd be chattering in some random language between them and you'd jsut sit there going "...eyup..."

- This is opinion on a small biased sample size. Most groups in SWTOR don't have pivotal discussion from what I've personally witnessed. Players are more forgiving now because people don't know what they are doing, that issue you are referencing is not a X-LFD issue but a game maturity issue when the players who remain become jaded

People i've met so far in SW:tOR are chattier during random things than they were in WoW, they give compliments on good play, ask about your class, how you are liking the game (admittedly, that last question is quite common for new games).

They seem very curious about the notion of an assassin tank /sigh

From all i've heard from others and seen, people are simply more interested in each other now. This might also be because SW:tOR hasn't jsut got old WoW players, but also the ex-SWG crowd, people who play MMOs for the first time, etc. It's a mix of people.

 

- This is a constant theme I keep witnessing. Do you use the tool then. While you are out questing do a /1 Hey is anyone interested in forming a group or ask in /fleet. After a reasonable amount of time if no one replies then simply use the tool then.

The reasonable amount of time would pass without a doubt, unless i contact people i already know, friends, guildies, and they contact their friends. But for that, they need to be online, available, etc.

The chances of getting a full FP group together through General while there is a LFG system (which is more convenient and wouldn't just reach out to people in whatever area you're in) is so silly you might as well just use the tool.

 

Meeting new people is, for me, something which keeps the game interesting. If that gets taken out... Well, i won't quit until the game holds no interest whatsoever for me anymore, but it does make it more boring.

- There are other ways of meeting players, and again do not use the tool.

Yes, but not in the same way, and definately to a lesser extent.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Psychode

[Nemmar]

Some people need to realise that an MMO is a social game. Its not just a game where you do everything by yourself and when theres group content i just hit a button and use other players to do it without ever having to say a word, and beeing able to do what i want without fear of social reprimend.

 

All i have to say is: grow up. In society you need to communicate, and theres no way to avoid that.

 

Better LFG yes i support that. Cross-server LFG tool? No, never. It would be the end of the game there and then just as its beeing for WoW (losing 2 million subs a year).

[evildestroyer]

Some people need to realise that an MMO is a social game. Its not just a game where you do everything by yourself and when theres group content i just hit a button and use other players to do it without ever having to say a word, and beeing able to do what i want without fear of social reprimend.

 

All i have to say is: grow up. In society you need to communicate, and theres no way to avoid that.

 

Better LFG yes i support that. Cross-server LFG tool? No, never. It would be the end of the game there and then just as its beeing for WoW (losing 2 million subs a year).

 

Not having Cross server will be the end of the game.

WoW lost people cause the game is 7 years old.

Its people like you who are against Cross server that will cause this game to die eventually. No new player in a year or two will want to play this game when they would spend for ever finding groups.

Edited January 22, 2012 by evildestroyer

[BlueSkittles]

Even with cross-server LFG, it easily took hours for dps to actually get in one, might as well have stuck to server only there.

Never took "hours" even in the worst of times. I believe I waited between 45 minutes to an hour when playing at 5am on a Wednesday. Other than that, for heroics it takes about 10 to 20 minutes and regular leveling dungeons took at most a half hour.

 

If you play on off-peak hours on your server, has it ever occured to you that they will also be off-peak on other servers? Unless of course they throw the world together, which seems rather messy.

Though i do admit there would be a better chance of getting a group then.

But the amount of people also playing on all other servers in your time zone/battlegroup creates a substantially higher pool of players than just your server alone. Making wait time mostly not a problem.

 

Part of the fun of playing an MMO is meeting new people and keeping in touch with them, in cross-server things, that doesn't happen. Unless you've gotten cosy enough that you're exchanging e-mails in the period it took to finish (or fail) the fp, and even then you wouldnt really be playing together. The only new people would be new people in your guild, or maybe during leveling, something which eventually does stop if you're not an alt person.

Actually just added some info to a post about what Blizzard is doing for this. They are creating a Battle Tags system where you can create an account wide user name for yourself then let people add that to their friends list. This way, you can then later ask them to join your groups for cross server Dungeons/Raids. Would be nice for Bioware to add something like this.

 

And kicking people who were bad/jerks? Please, you couldnt afford that if they were a tank or healer, beause then it would be another hour of waiting, and as somebody mentioned earlier, especially the tanks knew that and easily yelled at people, blaming them for their own mistakes, etc....

- Yes agreed

Yes you can kick them because if you're already in a Flashpoint/Dungeon your group is put at the highest priority for a new Tank/Healer. This has happened to me quite a few times in WoW and it was usually at most a 5 minute wait. If it took longer, yeah the whole group probably dropped. But then you personally re-queue and voila, 15 minutes later you're in a whole new group.

[BlueSkittles]

The Real ID for me was used to stay in touch with RL friends and people i got close to online, it's not something i'm randomly going to give out to people simply because i thought they played well and enjoyed their company. Also at the point i played, it was only possible to use it for talking, i didn't know they went further there.

 

Yeah, you can now do Dungeons/Raids with any of your Real ID friends. And coming soon is a new more anonymous Battle Tag system where you just use a "user name" instead of your email address in which you can give to people who you liked playing with. Just more tech SWTOR needs to add to catch up.

[AeonWeapon]

Some great arguments for Blizzard's new upcoming Battle Tag system which lets players friend people from other servers by using their Battle Tag username only, which would go a long way to keep that sense of "community" if a similar system was implemented in SWTOR .

City of Heroes had "global chat names" 7 years ago at launch. These were names you had that could add to friends lists and chat and everything with people no matter what character they were playing or what server they were on.

 

I feel other MMOs could learn alot from CoH, it had such a refined UI and quality of life features and systems. It really doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

[BlueSkittles]

Some people need to realise that an MMO is a social game. Its not just a game where you do everything by yourself and when theres group content i just hit a button and use other players to do it without ever having to say a word, and beeing able to do what i want without fear of social reprimend.

 

All i have to say is: grow up. In society you need to communicate, and theres no way to avoid that.

 

Better LFG yes i support that. Cross-server LFG tool? No, never. It would be the end of the game there and then just as its beeing for WoW (losing 2 million subs a year).

 

The "social game" is only 1 part of a whole lot of parts to an MMO. It may be #1 for you, but that's not true for everyone, sorry.

 

WoW only started losing subs after Cataclysm. They actually plateaued with the start of Wrath of the Lich King and even after LFD was released, the subscriber numbers stayed the same. Here's a link to a Kotaku article explaining as such. http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/02/world-of-warcraft-no-growth-since-2008/

[AeonWeapon]

Some people need to realise that an MMO is a social game. Its not just a game where you do everything by yourself

 

Right, which is why it needs to be easy to form a team, because if people aren't doing ti easily, they give up on spamming LFG in general and they go solo missions.

 

With things as they are now, the real majority of players aren't being social at all, many are skipping heroics altogether, and when they do do them they don't even bother sharing dialogue for social points before they leave the team.

 

This glorified sense of community you preachers have is just doesn't really exist.

 

And the truth is, many of us are just here to play a game, not to be BFFs or form deep complicated relationships with our teammates. We just want casual, fun, simple gaming interactions.

[Apache]

I think its time for me to change my stance on a LFG tool.

 

I havnt opposed a LFG tool but I definately havnt been a supporter of one either. Having a mostly solo/pvper playstyle, I didnt really care either way. Untill now.

 

Ive noticed that here in SWTOR most people bypass group content while leveling wich leaves the few people who want to do group content struggling to find groups. Hopelessly spamming /1 trying to find people to group with untill they just simply give up and move on.

 

It makes me feel bad for these people. All they want to do is enjoy the game and they miss out.

 

And with server populations seeming to dwindle its making it harder for these folks.*

 

*Note: I have no hard numbers to confirm or deny server populations nor am I implying in any way that SWTOR is dying. Just my own observation and personal opinion.

 

I say give them a legitimate LFG tool that will make thier MMO life a little easier if they so choose to use it.

 

So for the record: I am in full support of a functional LFG tool and I hereby officially request such a tool.

 

please dont hate me

Edited January 22, 2012 by Apache

[BlueSkittles]

So for the record: I am in full support of a functional LFG tool and I hereby officially request such a tool.

 

please dont hate me

 

Welcome to the Dark Side. You'll like it here. We have the best cookies.

 

But in all seriousness, thanks for posting. And much

[savionen]

Having to actually look for a group isn't a big deal to me, looking in chat and all that. But having to spend 15 minutes actually traveling to the flashpoint is stupid.

 

Why not force us to fly to Alderaan every time that Warzone pops up.

 

 

Edit: I'm refering to the level 50 flashpoints, like False Emperor where you have to go through something like 4 loading screens and 6 maps to get there, and then in reverse when you want to go back to the fleet afterwards.

Edited January 22, 2012 by savionen