Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[Neiloch]

I bet you think your important, seeing as how you just casually quote people and post 30 times a page.

 

and I bet oyu think you some righteous rebel fighting for a just cause to keep the big bag LFD system out of the game. You're not on the losing side, you have already lost.

[MalignX]

not insulting anyone. Just stating a fact. I'll never play in the NFL due to not being talented enough. I don't cry about not being able to play, I can't compete at that level. I can't do software development. I have neither the time or training to be successful at it. In this day and age of 'everyone wins' mentality it's tellin people they don't have to to try or better themselves, be that professinally or personally. They expect the world to fix itself so they can succeed. Some people just don't have the eye and hand coordinaton to handle end game dungeon mechanics just lke I don't have the ability to make rockets or computer programs. I'm not bitter about that because my strengths lie in other areas. Practice, learn, apply. Everyone can do these three things and succeed, but alot of people don't want to.

 

Funny thing was no one wrote Nintendo and whinned about the game being to hard when they played Tetris and falied to get to the last level.

 

And no we have not cleared Nightmare Mode yet. If ya read my post we're working on HM. But we don't expect the game to be dropped down to our level. It gives us something to strive for in our gamming hobby. When did it become a bad thing to have to work to achieve something?

 

Again, there is not gold star in life for being great at video games.

Nothing you said there added anything constructive to the discussion of a system that IS coming.

[Touchbass]

Awesome! Lets get to it. From what I remember of the LFG in WoW, it was click tank/heals/dps and the dungeons you wanted to run, click and boom. Go back to lvling/grinding/whatever until the group got put together and then ported to the dungeon.

 

The fundamental argument I hear is that the people that used that system were utter #%$hats...

 

But that doesn't seem to be a constructive critique of the actual LFG system..

 

People in general are not ******es in the LFD. It's like these boards here, people will make a remark and the person will flip out and throw a tandrum and kick the person. The majority of the groups are fine with a few difficulties that are acceptable if your using the tool for it's intended purpose. I made countless groups without the tool with guildies and friends, so I don't know why people are having issue with finding in server groups.

 

Bioware really, and I mean really dropped the ball by having 2 dps per group and no dual spec. I was hoping for a tank + 4 dps and heals composition but there is no point getting caught up in what hasn't happened.

 

The biggest issues with the new LFD are:

 

1) Teleport

 

2) Automated?

 

3) Queue system?

 

4) Punishment? (will this even be applicable?)

 

5) scroll down menu? Will I see listings for every available player per role? DarkKhoas if you get a chance made up a nice interface

[Neiloch]

Except its not. Bioware has acknowledged the detrimental effects a dungeon finder brings. If they say anything its just to calm people down while they try to figure out the right way of doing things, instead of just copying others who fix the problem the wrong way.

 

We have already established that it is the BEST WAY TO DATE to solve things, not the wrong way. Because, like I said several times before, if it was bad many other MMO's wouldn't be copying it with great success.

 

The idea that a LFD system is inherently bad is factually wrong.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Neiloch

[Touchbass]

Again, there is not gold star in life for being great at video games.

Nothing you said there added anything constructive to the discussion of a system that IS coming.

 

agreed.

[AeonWeapon]

You're right it is a game, and a multiplayer one at that, most people don't play it so they can get the solo experience, and while most guilds haven't lasted for 6 years a fair share of people stay connected to each other even after guilds come and go.

 

I don't like to solo at all, I prefer team play, I had my most fun in MMOs that really support and encourage team play. If I had it my way, I would do every mission in TOR with at least one teammate. Maybe if I had a real life friend or two who played the game. The couple of real life friends I do have who play games both said they weren't impressed enough with the features of TOR to invest in it. I wish Bioware would add all kinds of cool features so I can tell those friends, "hey, the game got really awesome all of a sudden, join in."

 

BUT, despite my inclination towards team play, that doesn't mean I'm here for the complicated friendship-and-community kind of social interactions, that's what real life is for. A game for me is for casual, simple and fun interactions. In fact, I try to keep alot of my real life social interactions casual and fun too. And you know what? Just because I had fun with someone that one time, doesn't mean I want to stay connected with that person forever. They're acquaintances. I might have enjoyed the conversation I had with those people at that party once, but that doesn't mean I want to connect with them forever, or necessarily even talk with them again... I'm just not that needed for long-term social connections, or clingy.

 

I really don't think most people want those kinds of difficult, complex interactions with people when they play a game, even if they are sociable. Most are just here to play the game, and the only connection they want to have with you or I is just having fun together playing, and don't want it to run any deeper than that.

 

And as far as guilds, I don't consider hierarchies and ranks to be social groups, I consider them organizations.

Edited January 25, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[navarh]

Talk to any dps on WoW and you'll hear about 40 minute waits for dungeon finder.

it's a LIIEEEEEE

in reality it's 7-14 m at max

 

+ in that_game you can do both rLFG and chat search for group

or find a tank and get invite instant

or find a healer and get invite in 1-4m

[Skann]

Bioware, I know its easy to listen to the most vocal voices out there. Right now the vocal voice is the one who are asking for a cross server LFG system, because there isn't one in the game right now.

 

Consider though that those know how bad a LFG system is aren't speaking out even though they should be, since they are satisfied with how the game is right now. As soon as a LFG is added that voice will be raised and then we have another situation on our hands.

 

I know you realize that adding a LFG would kill communities and destroy the game. Its happened to others and if its added to TOR its going to have the same effect.

 

Please please don't cave in to the crybabies and don't kill TOR with a LFG system.

 

Yes, yes. And please Bioware don't look at your competitor with 10m+ subscribers. I mean, they are CLEARLY doing it wrong.

 

Keep listening to the hyperbolic comments about how much a features that will make people play MORE will kill your game. Because, it does make a lot of sense.

[BlueSkittles]

I bet you think your important, seeing as how you just casually quote people and post 30 times a page.

 

To be honest, sorry if it seems like I'm spamming. There are just certain posts that bug me enough that I have to respond directly to them. As for thinking I'm "important"? No, of course not. I'm just one player out of 2million+. But I've been on this thread quite a bit and if you ask Touch or Aeon...oh my god! We've created a *********** community here! Crap, now I'm against LFG!

 

Edit to add: Thank you Neil for sticking up for me.

Edited January 25, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[MalignX]

People in general are not ******es in the LFD. It's like these boards here, people will make a remark and the person will flip out and throw a tandrum and kick the person. The majority of the groups are fine with a few difficulties that are acceptable if your using the tool for it's intended purpose. I made countless groups without the tool with guildies and friends, so I don't know why people are having issue with finding in server groups.

 

Bioware really, and I mean really dropped the ball by having 2 dps per group and no dual spec. I was hoping for a tank + 4 dps and heals composition but there is no point getting caught up in what hasn't happened.

 

The biggest issues with the new LFD are:

 

1) Teleport

 

2) Automated?

 

3) Queue system?

 

4) Punishment? (will this even be applicable?)

 

5) scroll down menu? Will I see listings for every available player per role? DarkKhoas if you get a chance made up a nice interface

 

I agree that dual spec would be great. But that's neither here nor there.

 

1) Teleport would be awesome, seeing as they have it for Warzones.

2) Automated? Meaning what?

3) Queue system yes, even better if they took into account people on your friends list or guild.

4) No matter what system is in place, it seems silly for a game to impose "punishments", but maybe a increased queue time for getting kicked? (Seems like anything you implement that allows players to "punish" other players will get abused to death.)

[Raynn]

Wow, thanks for putting all the effort into making a post with your concerns. I don't agree with your reasoning but I can understand the concerns you are bringing forth. Although I will say your lack of empathy for people stuck on small servers doesn't strike me as a community minded mentality.

 

I wasn't trying to be a jack *** and say 'screw everyone on small servers'. Its sucks that those servers dont have a strong population to support those individuals in the game. And I'm not going to say 'just re-roll' cause that option sucks as well. Bioware will probably make the LFD tool and it will probably be cross-server. Lets face it, its an amazing cash cow when it comes to keeping people in game. As a business thats what you want. But until then would be nice if they offered server xfers for those who are stuck on low server pops. They probably won't because it gives the wrong image as a healthy MMO but it would show that the players matter to them.

[Vrumpt]

What about a dungeon finder do you have issue with so that we can find a way to address that?

 

The entire aspect of killing any kind of social aspect to the game.

 

WoWs dungeon finder killed that, and you ended up with queued up dungeons while everybody sits in town. Nobody talks to each other. The tanks think of themselves as elitist thugs which you can't really do anything about, since they are all like that. The healers aren't any better. It turns into a silent run where all you do is hope the others aren't giant ******es. The removal of being punished for being a douche just turns dungeons into a horrible horrible experience.

 

Thats my problem with a cross-server dungeon finder. Same server is just a slippery slope to cross server so it doesn't matter if they only add that, because when they do they're already working on cross server.

[Skann]

Join LFG dialog should have the following options:

 

- Checkbox for "intra-server" only groups

- Checkbox for "no teleport" only groups

- Vote to kick

- Operation style loot system (pre-rolled, not need/greed on anything, not even green items)

[navarh]

WoWs dungeon finder killed that, and you ended up with queued up dungeons while everybody sits in town. Nobody talks to each other.

how about that is exact thing that people whanted? no?

any chance?

why so shure?

Edited January 25, 2012 by navarh

[Vrumpt]

Yes, yes. And please Bioware don't look at your competitor with 10m+ subscribers. I mean, they are CLEARLY doing it wrong.

 

Keep listening to the hyperbolic comments about how much a features that will make people play MORE will kill your game. Because, it does make a lot of sense.

 

Simply copying the same system isn't going to make your game any better. Look at every WoW clone ever. Tell me how many of them actually did as good as the original?

 

The goal to beating a system is to make something better than whats doing well. If you want to make a dungeon finder, instead look at what a dungeon finder does and try to accomplish that goal but in a better way.

 

Go above and beyond what your competition has and you'll attract them over, but if you just offer the same thing that your competition has, they won't flock over at all since they already have it in the game they are already happy and established in.

[Skann]

The entire aspect of killing any kind of social aspect to the game.

 

WoWs dungeon finder killed that, and you ended up with queued up dungeons while everybody sits in town. Nobody talks to each other. The tanks think of themselves as elitist thugs which you can't really do anything about, since they are all like that. The healers aren't any better. It turns into a silent run where all you do is hope the others aren't giant ******es. The removal of being punished for being a douche just turns dungeons into a horrible horrible experience.

 

Thats my problem with a cross-server dungeon finder. Same server is just a slippery slope to cross server so it doesn't matter if they only add that, because when they do they're already working on cross server.

 

News flash: it is a silence run already. The game doesn't support a voice chat/web-cam to allow proper communication. You have to literally STOP playing to be able to "talk". Nobody (or the large majority of players) won't bother slowing the others down for chit-chat "sup dude? how are you doing? where are you from?".

 

Don't like LFG? Don't use it.

[MalignX]

Join LFG dialog should have the following options:

 

- Checkbox for "intra-server" only groups

- Checkbox for "no teleport" only groups

- Vote to kick

- Operation style loot system (pre-rolled, not need/greed on anything, not even green items)

 

Hooray more intelligent comments.

 

I agree with the checkbox for in-server only groups if you want it.

 

What's the deal with no teleport? What does being able to teleport hurt? Especially when they've spread the Flashpoints across planets. Asking, not arguing

 

And again I agree with the loot restrictions in Flashpoints.

[TumblerSW]

I want running flashpoints to be as simple as getting into pvp warzones. Just click join Queue as solo, select the flashpoint you want, then go about your business and the game pops up and lets you teleport to the mission. Such a waste of time to try and do this missions at the moment.

 

Put a limit on them for once every hour or something so people can't just farm them constantly. (I would assume this would be bad) If you want to run them non stop then you can go start them manually at the terminals.

 

I had a lot of fun playing through 2 of them but the hassle of getting into them quickly made it feel like a waste of time. PvP would feel the same way if they'd made us manually setup our teams and wait in a random spot in the game for the match to start. Thank fully they made the pvp grouping system accessible to eveyrone.

 

Do the same thing with flashpoints.

[Vitiock]

The entire aspect of killing any kind of social aspect to the game.

 

WoWs dungeon finder killed that, and you ended up with queued up dungeons while everybody sits in town. Nobody talks to each other. The tanks think of themselves as elitist thugs which you can't really do anything about, since they are all like that. The healers aren't any better. It turns into a silent run where all you do is hope the others aren't giant ******es. The removal of being punished for being a douche just turns dungeons into a horrible horrible experience.

 

Thats my problem with a cross-server dungeon finder. Same server is just a slippery slope to cross server so it doesn't matter if they only add that, because when they do they're already working on cross server.

 

But are you fine with a same server if you were guaranteed 100% that cross server wouldn't happen? Also the difference technically between cross server and single server are quite large, blizzard already had that infrastructure there because of pvp, bioware has no infrastructure for cross server stuff currently, so to say they are working on cross server because they are working on single server is not truthful.

 

Also you admit that you used the x-server dungeon finder and more than a little, why was this. What was it that drew you to the dungeon finder when you had a preference to do things otherwise.

[Neiloch]

Simply copying the same system isn't going to make your game any better. Look at every WoW clone ever. Tell me how many of them actually did as good as the original?

 

The goal to beating a system is to make something better than whats doing well. If you want to make a dungeon finder, instead look at what a dungeon finder does and try to accomplish that goal but in a better way.

 

Go above and beyond what your competition has and you'll attract them over, but if you just offer the same thing that your competition has, they won't flock over at all since they already have it in the game they are already happy and established in.

 

and in the mean time keep a complete crap system while they develop a new LFG system from the ground up? Yeah I'm sure they will be satisfied once they launch it, look up and realize they hemorrhaged subscribers.

 

Ideally they would have released a game with a more refined LFG system then any other MMO but instead they released the worst one that is currently on the market. They need to fix this post-haste, and if that means going with a safe bet of a system that has been proven to work for years, good.

[navarh]

Thank fully they made the pvp grouping system accessible to eveyrone.

and still not cross-server, that's a example of poor copy of working solution

[Skann]

Simply copying the same system isn't going to make your game any better. Look at every WoW clone ever. Tell me how many of them actually did as good as the original?

 

The goal to beating a system is to make something better than whats doing well. If you want to make a dungeon finder, instead look at what a dungeon finder does and try to accomplish that goal but in a better way.

 

Go above and beyond what your competition has and you'll attract them over, but if you just offer the same thing that your competition has, they won't flock over at all since they already have it in the game they are already happy and established in.

 

You have to copy what's good, improve what's bad, create what's missing. Basic product strategy. LFG has been established as good (it's inclusive, time saving, effective, practical, don't penalized low-pop servers, etc). The bad aspects people keep on bringing up are hyped myths (breed jerks, ninjas, kills "communities" and whatever else).

 

Bioware went above and beyond with the voice over, class quests, companions, energy/heat/focus based healing system, to name a few of the SWTOR highlights.

 

The absence of cross-server grouping mechanisms and dual-spec ISN'T copying the good, neither improving. It's the contrary, it's total lack of vision and basic understanding of modern MMOs.

[Touchbass]

To be honest, sorry if it seems like I'm spamming. There are just certain posts that bug me enough that I have to respond directly to them. As for thinking I'm "important"? No, of course not. I'm just one player out of 2million+. But I've been on this thread quite a bit and if you ask Touch or Aeon...oh my god! We've created a *********** community here! Crap, now I'm against LFG!

 

Edit to add: Thank you Neil for sticking up for me.

 

Don't let anyone tell you that you aren't entitled to post, you're a valuable member of this thread. He's clearly reading all your stuff otherwise he wouldn't be posting about how many times he sees your posts.

 

If someone keep posting nonsense it would derail the thread and people would stop posting in it and the thread would die. I don't see that happening here anytime soon.

[AeonWeapon]

WoWs dungeon finder killed that, and you ended up with queued up dungeons while everybody sits in town. Nobody talks to each other.

 

As opposed to what? Everyone standing in town shouting LFG LFG LFG LFG LFG? That's not "talking to eachother"

[Touchbass]

I wasn't trying to be a jack *** and say 'screw everyone on small servers'. Its sucks that those servers dont have a strong population to support those individuals in the game. And I'm not going to say 'just re-roll' cause that option sucks as well. Bioware will probably make the LFD tool and it will probably be cross-server. Lets face it, its an amazing cash cow when it comes to keeping people in game. As a business thats what you want. But until then would be nice if they offered server xfers for those who are stuck on low server pops. They probably won't because it gives the wrong image as a healthy MMO but it would show that the players matter to them.

 

The problem with transfers is it leaves people who are stuck there for friends/family/server name fetish even worse