People aren't bothering to gear up

[Oawe]

I believe a DPS meter would fix the issue to a large extent.

 

Many players are thinking they do good DPS although they have crappy gear. If they saw that their DPS is actually bad and get complaints, they would probably use AH and dailies to upgrade their gear.

 

People would still need to know how much damage is acceptable. I'm having that issue right now. I don't know how much damage I can or should be doing. I'm still playing my first character and I also just switched from tank to DPS so my gear is suffering from that atm.

 

Still - people that know their stuff will know they need good gear. True they probably shouldn't be sporting greens (or at least not too many) on Heroics. The people that do it intentionally will do it whether there is a damage meter in-game or not. That's the point I was trying to make because adding in damage meters won't make people use it.

 

It might be simpler to tell the people to go to their character sheet and check their damage/healing and then compare that to the boss's total health. No that doesn't take into account the actual damage being dealt. For that people should be monitoring their damage flytexts in bursts. I do this from time to time. You should be looking at your screen anyway so that shouldn't be too hard.

 

I also don't think that someone who is wearing green items doesn't know what they're doing. Gear is important but it doesn't determine who the good DPSers/tanks/healers are.

[Tiron_Raptor]

Yes, advanced content does require better gear than normal level content.

 

Fact is though, DPS meters don't tell you when someone has bad gear. They require you to actually fight in order to see DPS, and DPS on normal pulls can have little to nothing to do with what they're capable of. My Tactics vanguard for example, is going to pull a lot higher DPS on groups than average, because I've got substantial damage boosts to my pulse generator and arcane exp...er.... explosive surge damage(increased crit chance, increased damage bonus from High Energy Cell, a stacking buff that explosive surge activates that increases damage by up to 50%, reduced cooldown on pulse generator...)

 

So you have to fight a boss before you can really see what kind of DPS people are doing. So that wipe you're complaining about? Still happens with DPS meters before you know anything is wrong.

 

All it does is makes it so you don't have to go to the effort of doing an /inspect to figure out who has the bad gear.

 

In other words: it saves you a few seconds of time and effort at best.

 

Even then you'd still be better served inspecting their gear before you started!

 

So you're just lazy, I guess.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Tiron_Raptor

[Karkais]

People are joining heroics wearing greens although lvl 49-50 epic items are cheap and plentiful on AH.

 

They certainly aren't where I play, but I play on a RP server. I cant even properly gear green lvl 50 items like implants and such!

[heavenquake]

And this is why I probably won't stick around very long with the game. Once I finish the main storyline - I'll probably be done.

 

Gear/faction/daily grinds aren't my thing. I am enjoying the storylines, but if raid grinds is the sort of endgame Bioware is going to focus on - that will be disappointing.

 

This is an interesting perspective, and one I somewhat agree with.

 

But do you have any ideas as to what Bioware could feasibly provide other than raid grinds for people who have finished their storylines? Keeping in mind that all signs point to the class storylines being continued in future patches/expansions, that is.

 

As a programmer and developer myself, I have fiddled with RPG-style games before. And I can tell you how difficult it is to create content that isn't grind, that is still appealing to end-level characters. Putting out a Flashpoint or an Operation that can be grinded, optimized and enjoyed again and again by groups of 4-16 seems much more feasible and cost-effecient for a company that also constantly needs to be on their toes with server maintenance and bug fixes. Conversely, attempting to constantly pump out new storyline content, which will become increasingly difficult with time, as players typically burn through story like flaming petrol-soaked paper, would seriously ramp up costs. First for Bioware, then for you. In both real-world currency and, more importantly, time.

 

The better that time is filled with something of some level of interest, like raids, right?

 

TL;DR: I appreciate and agree with your sentiment, but I'm hard pressed to see a solution that doesn't leave us completely dead in the water while waiting for storyline updates.

[WarheartZero]

Noone's asking for cheats. Misusing a word like that doesn't make you look clever; quite the contrary.

 

 

Something I'd expect someone who wants cheats to say. Learn to play and you won't need your self help programs.

Edited January 16, 2012 by WarheartZero

[ferroz]

umm it's still really easy to tell if you can't

a. get enough healing

 

b. get enough dps

 

c. tanks aren't geared well enough

Which one of those was the problem he had on his last wipe.

 

Been raiding since EQ1

Nice; people were using live damage parsing back when the top end raid strats were of the order

1. send in the melee and healers
   
2. once enough of the melee have died so that you won't lag everyone out, send in the casters.
   

 

a damage meter is not going to tell you these things.

Wrong. The damage meter can tell you that there wasn't enough healing, or if the healers were healing at the wrong time (overhealing), or if they weren't clearing off debuffs quickly enough, etc. The damage meter can tell you if there isn't enough damage, or if the dps weren't all on the right targets.. The damage meter can tell you if the tank is taking too many big hits, or just too much damage in general. It can provide information that a human can use to tell, without doubt, which one of those was the issue.

[Holden_Dissent]

Not to this extent. In WoW, people usually get the best gear and enchants available from heroic 5-mans before joining PUG raids.

 

what?

[Darekar]

In the early days of WoW you had to raid with greens and blues, for some items it took 2-3 raid content releases to get epics in those slots, mostly for trinkets...

Skill > Gear, the fact that its a numbers game doesnt mean you cant skew the odds with skill, proper rotation, resource management(esp for Troopers/BH and Smug/Ops) and good situational awareness beats gear, doesn't matter what gear you have you cant simply face roll trough the instance.

Dead DPS = No DPS

Dead Healer = Wipe

I rather have a dps in greens that avoids AoE and other avoidable attacks than having some full calumni wowzer that expects the healer to heal him trough every **** the boss throws at them.

 

from what i seen in hardmode, there is only 2 possible result of dps/healer in green gear:

 

result 1: dps/healer get lucky and survive passive AoE damage but lack the dps to kill the boss with short enrage timer (there is one like that in every HM)

 

resust 2: dps/healer get 1-shot by random attack (double saber on HM eseless for exemple)

 

i feel like you want at least 13k hp in hm to survive and then enough gear to beat the enrage timer that is very short on some bosses.

[Putok]

Also for the story. Kinda lame what they did with HK-47. Its as if he was just a nobody who says meat-bag. I cringe to think of the travesty they probably did to Revan playing Empire side. Geuss ill find out when I roll Empire.

 

It was pretty bad tbh. I was pretty psyched when I got into the instance, and I was like, "Is that who I think it is?" but more than a little bit of a letdown.

 

Say what you want about story in WoW, Blizzard never does major lore characters like THAT.

[DarthMalt]

i've got the orange armor, and some mods from correllia, but they seem to be capped at lvl49. is that still considered epic? actually i need to get more commendations for corr, but i'd rather just buy the mods with creds instead...

 

I've picked up a couple of purple mods that were higher than that. got an armor mod and hilt mod that are rated 124. Got them off the GTN, so availability varies.

[Amiracle]

A tool like a DPS meter can parse out combat information in a temporal format to let you know how long a fight will take at your current DPS, how much damage your group is taking and how much healing is being put out. You cannot get that information objectively in that format without a tool to crunch the numbers for you.

 

Really?

 

If you know your min/max damage and how many times you can use that ability over a set amount of time you cannot figure out some numbers?

 

I know the person who wrote the meter can.

 

Sounds like you just want someone to do it for you. Which is funny because once this is done the best rotations get posted.

 

And basicly all you are using the meter to do is make sure you are hitting the buttons in the correct order.

 

Do you really need 3rd party software to make sure you are hitting the buttons in the correct order?

[Nexusissei]

Really?

 

If you know your min/max damage and how many times you can use that ability over a set amount of time you cannot figure out some numbers?

 

I know the person who wrote the meter can.

 

Sounds like you just want someone to do it for you. Which is funny because once this is done the best rotations get posted.

 

And basicly all you are using the meter to do is make sure you are hitting the buttons in the correct order.

 

Do you really need 3rd party software to make sure you are hitting the buttons in the correct order?

 

No, the person who wrote the meter knows algorithms to determine averages over time. And it's a lot more than min, max and timing. Crit chances, length of fight, statistical anomaly of runs, etc. are all factors. And not all classes are created equally for all fights, so there's a lot of factors in there that matter too. And the fight themselves make huge differences. Sometimes you have to move here, do this, switch targets, use secondaries, etc. All of those are factors that a typical (even highly intelligent) human cannot crunch anywhere near as well as a parsing tool can.

 

Oh, and one is a mediocre player at best if it's thought that a rotation is anything more than a general guideline.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Nexusissei

[oflow]

Maybe its because of all the people Needing gear for their companions?

[Rasstavad]

Maybe its because of all the people Needing gear for their companions?

 

I know, right? See this much too often.

[guided_by_voices]

People are joining heroics wearing greens although lvl 49-50 epic items are cheap and plentiful on AH.

 

They get away with it because there are no DPS meters. It's hard to find good people for PUGs.

 

Please add damage meters to the game to improve the quality of players.

 

lol because that worked so well for wow. You might mean item level requirement to even enter the instance/flashpoint?

[Nexusissei]

lol because that worked so well for wow. You might mean item level requirement to even enter the instance/flashpoint?

 

Even WoW uses ilvl requirements just as a general guideline for only players unfamiliar with the system. It's not there to keep people who don't belong in content out of the content.

[kevlarto]

lol dps meter makes a player worse takes away any skill they may have had, a bad player will still be a bad player only with a meter, learn to play my skill as player will trumph your silly meters anytime, I have proved it over and over again meters are a cruch not a fix..

[Nexusissei]

lol dps meter makes a player worse takes away any skill they may have had, a bad player will still be a bad player only with a meter, learn to play my skill as player will trumph your silly meters anytime, I have proved it over and over again meters are a cruch not a fix..

 

Does a meter make a good player? No. But if gives you objective data to locate the bad ones.

[samaael]

I like both wow and swtor, pls dont talk about stuff u dont know anything about.

 

Looks like someone is taking it personally.

 

The day I hit 50 I joined a group to fo HM BT as a healer. We did wipe a couple of times but we did complete the flashpoint. It may be harder with green/blue gear but it is not impossible. People are used to being able to go in, aoe a pack of mobs, move to the next, rinse and repeat. Learn you class, learn the fights, and improve yourself. As we said in the military-improvise, adapt, and overcome.

[guided_by_voices]

Which one of those was the problem he had on his last wipe.

 

Nice; people were using live damage parsing back when the top end raid strats were of the order

1. send in the melee and healers
   
2. once enough of the melee have died so that you won't lag everyone out, send in the casters.
   

 

Wrong. The damage meter can tell you that there wasn't enough healing, or if the healers were healing at the wrong time (overhealing), or if they weren't clearing off debuffs quickly enough, etc. The damage meter can tell you if there isn't enough damage, or if the dps weren't all on the right targets.. The damage meter can tell you if the tank is taking too many big hits, or just too much damage in general. It can provide information that a human can use to tell, without doubt, which one of those was the issue.

 

you are completely twisting information around. Staying on topic of people not gearing up.

you don't need a damage meter like recount to determine if someone is undergeared for a flashpoint.

 

tanking dying to fast? -->is there cc going on? if not cc a few of the adds. cc being broken? no?--> inspect tank and look at gear. -->Still dying? check healer

 

trash not dying fast enough? ask them to focus first marked targets try again. still a problem inspect the characters. This is not rocket science folks.

[darthbored]

so theres no inspect option you can use and then boot them from the group when you see full greens?

[Varghjerta]

The more this game will automate or provide more convinience things (like LFG,Dual Specc + more)

"For every player that can handle it there is also a player that can't handle it"

The more the game provides that ,things like

Gear score, performance meters will be needed more and more in the game.

 

But i am not surprised that people is disregarding gearing up these days.

 

These days alot of players do feel entitled doing the hardest content straight away,

 

And if the game do demand that players must gear up they come to these forums complaining that it is a "grind"

Edited January 16, 2012 by Varghjerta

[Aleeha]

People are joining heroics wearing greens although lvl 49-50 epic items are cheap and plentiful on AH.

 

They get away with it because there are no DPS meters. It's hard to find good people for PUGs.

 

Please add damage meters to the game to improve the quality of players.

 

Please post more QQ dumb things, I don't laugh enough and reading posts like this gives me the giggles...

[Baaddare]

People are joining heroics wearing greens although lvl 49-50 epic items are cheap and plentiful on AH.

 

They get away with it because there are no DPS meters. It's hard to find good people for PUGs.

 

Please add damage meters to the game to improve the quality of players.

 

If your argument is that havign green gear is bad why do you need a DPS meter for this you can easily inspect a player before you have even entered a FP to see his gear. Seems this would be much better than waiting for a fight to look at a dps meter

[guided_by_voices]

so theres no inspect option you can use and then boot them from the group when you see full greens?

 

you can inspect a player don't know about booting. but that wasn't my point. people need to run through the basic "checks" of what is happening and not instantly blame dps or greens or whatever. meter won't tell you the healer missed a heal or tank didn't use a cool down properly. people need to rely less on a the app and more on being able to observe the activity themselves.

Edited January 16, 2012 by guided_by_voices