Aidank Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) No, the entire pit is much wider than 30m. I'd like to know what your team is doing where this player can freely run around the pit without anyone bothering him. Surely someone down there has a mountain of cc/snare/root they can chuck at him. Charge in it's current state is fine, adds some dimension to the game and makes melee useful. Sorry you can't just run on the ramp and knock back every melee, then continue to free cast on them without worry. A. 30m radial range means you have a 60 meter diameter where you can charge people from. B. And he has plenty of people in the pit bothering him, but incase you didn't know, juggernauts, especially with healers, don't die very fast. C. No, It's not fine. As is it's by far the easiest way in the game to score the huttball, i'm not saying it's broken in any other circumstance, but when it comes to winning in huttball it's blatantly overpowered. And by the way, I play a ranged class and a melee class, I agree that the catwalks are ******** with knockbacks on such low cd and blatantly favor ranged combat. That said, Warriors / knights shouldn't be able to score so easily. Edited January 16, 2012 by Aidank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 And by the way, I play a ranged class and a melee class, I agree that the catwalks are ******** with knockbacks on such low cd and blatantly favor ranged combat. That said, Warriors / knights shouldn't be able to score so easily. If ranged are so blatantly favored on catwalks, how is charge OP again? You're contradicting yourself. It almost sounds like an admission that different classes get different skills that allow them to do different things and gives them certain advantages in certain situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) A. 30m radial range means you have a 60 meter diameter where you can charge people from. B. And he has plenty of people in the pit bothering him, but incase you didn't know, juggernauts, especially with healers, don't die very fast. C. No, It's not fine. As is it's by far the easiest way in the game to score the huttball, i'm not saying it's broken in any other circumstance, but when it comes to winning in huttball it's blatantly overpowered. A. If i'm standing in the center of the pit yes i have a 60m diameter, there is also A HUGE RAMP above my head. Run up this ramp, jump down on the level once you get to the top of it. B. So where are your healers? If you have none and he does, you'd most likely lose anyway.If you have some, jump down there and kill his healers, then kill him. C. Several specs can yank people back down. Just about every spec has a knockback. For every ability there is a counter to it. Stop making excuses and face the fact that you weren't paying attention, ignored the massive purple/yellow beam and let the guy charge you and score. Edited January 16, 2012 by Kricys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Do marauders get a knockback in any spec? I didn't thinkt they did. Oh how I'd like one of those too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Do marauders get a knockback in any spec? I didn't thinkt they did. Oh how I'd like one of those too. We don't need one. Why as a melee class would I wanna knock people away from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalnar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 We don't need one. Why as a melee class would I wanna knock people away from me To leap on them and finish them off while they cannot defend themself ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If ranged are so blatantly favored on catwalks, how is charge OP again? You're contradicting yourself. It almost sounds like an admission that different classes get different skills that allow them to do different things and gives them certain advantages in certain situations. He said charge is overpowered while carrying the Huttball because it's pretty much an unstoppable way of scoring. Charge itself isn't overpowered versus players. Outside of the Sniper, all ranged classes are quite capable of fighting melee at melee range even if it's the situation they're prefer to not be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysdead Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Working as intended, and I hear a bunch of crying in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 To leap on them and finish them off while they cannot defend themself ? If they're gonna give me a knockdown I'm fine with that but I don't wanna knock people away from me. I'm already in range, why would i want an ability that forces me to blow my charge. Actually that would be a really nice change to pommel strike/savage kick. Make one of those have a knockdown affect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) A. If i'm standing in the center of the pit yes i have a 60m diameter, there is also A HUGE RAMP above my head. Run up this ramp, jump down on the level once you get to the top of it. B. So where are your healers? If you have none and he does, you'd most likely lose anyway.If you have some, jump down there and kill his healers, then kill him. C. Several specs can yank people back down. Just about every spec has a knockback. For every ability there is a counter to it. Stop making excuses and face the fact that you weren't paying attention, ignored the massive purple/yellow beam and let the guy charge you and score. A. The area leading up to the middle ramp gives LoS to a guy in the pit. B. To bring additional reinforcements against a guy already in the pit usually involves newly respawned guys arriving to help, except those guys give LoS to the guy in the pit. C. You can charge far more often than you can grapple someone. Grapple also builds resolve. Honestly killing the ball carrier at mid field, as dumb as that is (that implies they never get the ball in any dangerous position so of course you cannot lose) is far more practical than any of the proposed solutions. Edited January 16, 2012 by Astarica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 A. If i'm standing in the center of the pit yes i have a 60m diameter, there is also A HUGE RAMP above my head. Run up this ramp, jump down on the level once you get to the top of it. B. So where are your healers? If you have none and he does, you'd most likely lose anyway.If you have some, jump down there and kill his healers, then kill him. C. Several specs can yank people back down. Just about every spec has a knockback. For every ability there is a counter to it. Stop making excuses and face the fact that you weren't paying attention, ignored the massive purple/yellow beam and let the guy charge you and score. A. If they get on the ramp all you need to do is move the 3 meters to the right and charge them while they're on the ramp. It's still a free score. B. Last time I checked healers don't stop you from getting charged... The issue we're talking about. C. Now you're assuming that he's charging someone with a knockback that hits the knockback before the juggernaut can run past him (considering animation lag this is nearly impossible) or there is a BH down below with grapple off cd waiting to grapple him? Sure there are very specific, unlikely scenarios where this wouldn't work, but it's still incredibly easy to score with a charge, far easier than any other way, that's why it's "overpowered" not "unbeatable". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 A. The area leading up to the middle ramp gives LoS to a guy in the pit. B. To bring additional reinforcements against a guy already in the pit usually involves newly respawned guys arriving to help, except those guys give LoS to the guy in the pit. C. You can charge far more often than you can grapple someone. Grapple also builds resolve. Honestly killing the ball carrier at mid field, as dumb as that is (that implies they never get the ball in any dangerous position so of course you cannot lose) is far more practical than any of the proposed solutions. I'd rather los and get to a position where I can be useful rather than become a stepping stone for him to score. I'm valor 60 and have played god knows how many hutballs, not once have I ever let someone charge me to score. The guys already in the pit, if no one is in his los above him, he's just gonna stand there while people beat on him. Go after his teammates who are most likely using the ramps to get below your spawn so he can pass to them. If they nerf charge so you can no longer charge to anything in range it would simply make that class useless in hutball. Other meleeish classes have either sprint or stealth. This isn't a case of charge being too powerful. It's people not paying attention and making dumb mistakes. Casters have enough in their arsenal, all they to add to it is a brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 We don't need one. Why as a melee class would I wanna knock people away from me Obviously so I can knock people into acid and fire pits, duh. It's become apparent that pvp revolves around huttball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Simpler (and if i had to guess, after feedback from 50s only queue starts to pile up, coming in Patch 1.2) solution: No charging, interceding, extricating, or force speeding with the ball. Got the ball? walk it in or pass it in. Simpler solutions are better. Melee get to keep their mobility for when they need, and have it removed when it breaks the game (ever seen an 8 second cap? i have. Four times. In one game) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 So basically charge is overpowered because people are not intelligent enough to realize there's a guy in the pit who can charge them. Awesome.There's some decent players on my server, they know how I play and how I score. Not once have a few of these guys ever let me get a charge off on them as they run out the spawn.Use your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Sookie Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Just as soon as every knockback and force speed is removed from game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalnar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 You understand that leaps also build up focus and provide certain buffs if talented ? What the simplistic classes like clue hunters will loose ? one arm ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Simpler (and if i had to guess, after feedback from 50s only queue starts to pile up, coming in Patch 1.2) solution: No charging, interceding, extricating, or force speeding with the ball. Got the ball? walk it in or pass it in. Simpler solutions are better. Melee get to keep their mobility for when they need, and have it removed when it breaks the game (ever seen an 8 second cap? i have. Four times. In one game) Makes hutball very boring and one dimensional. Makes casters again more desirable on your team than anyone else. With the current resolve system you can get knocked back 4 times before becoming immune, completely ridiculous. Casters can knock the ball carrier off a ramp, melee ball carrier can charge back up the ramp. We have balance. That 8 second cap could have been easily avoided if the players had brains. Edited January 16, 2012 by Kricys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daex Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Simpler (and if i had to guess, after feedback from 50s only queue starts to pile up, coming in Patch 1.2) solution: No charging, interceding, extricating, or force speeding with the ball. Got the ball? walk it in or pass it in. Simpler solutions are better. Melee get to keep their mobility for when they need, and have it removed when it breaks the game (ever seen an 8 second cap? i have. Four times. In one game) Simple solution to simple solution - charge without the ball and receive the pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Simple solution to simple solution - charge without the ball and receive the pass. And we'll be back to this thread again. Ranged classes will not ever be happy unless they can dominate melee in every aspect of an mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Makes hutball very boring and one dimensional. Makes casters again more desirable on your team than anyone else. With the current resolve system you can get knocked back 4 times before becoming immune, completely ridiculous. Casters can knock the ball carrier off a ramp, melee ball carrier can charge back up the ramp. We have balance. That 8 second cap could have been easily avoided if the players had brains. Allow me to educate you: Jugg grabs ball. Jugg leaps to any enemy near the pit, jumps in, runs for four seconds. Assassin destealths, Jugg intercededs. Jugg caps, Assassin restealths. Second enemy jugg grabs the newly respanwed ball as the first runs back to center. Repeat. There was no way to prevent it. It doesn't make huttball one-dimensional, it makes it so you have to.. pass the ball, or brute-force walk it in. It actually inspires whole-team teamwork, instead of one tank queueing with a stealther buddy and scoring 8 second caps. Before you even try the "well the other team shouldnt have let him leap to them" - there's no way, even in an organized team game, that you're going to have NO ONE defending your scaffoldings trying to prevent enemies from getting into pass positions. There is always somene to jump to on the center-side of the pit. Avoiding giving LoS to a tank when coming out of your rez zone.. sure. Reasonable to expect good playres not to be stupid.. but he doesnt need you, he's got an OPerative/Assassin or their mirror to jump to instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Simple solution to simple solution - charge without the ball and receive the pass. Works for me. It required someone to pass it to you and gives my team the opportunity to intercept it. And that's all huttball really needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Sounds like your team would've gotten beaten regardless if they used that tactic or not. Why hasn't anyone on your team grabbed the ball? No one could yank the jugg back? Cc him as he grabs the ball? What exactly was going on after this jugg scored and before he got the ball again. Outplayed. Edit. Oh they had 2 juggs.... lol. Where are your juggs? Seems like they just have a better class comp for hutball. Counters are counters. Edited January 16, 2012 by Kricys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'll keep saying it too. Make it so the ball carrier can't be pulled by a teammate, or sprint abilities can't be used with the ball. It's just far too easy for one or two players to completely dominate a huttball match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Sookie Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Allow me to educate you: Jugg grabs ball. Jugg leaps to any enemy near the pit, jumps in, runs for four seconds. Assassin destealths, Jugg intercededs. Jugg caps, Assassin restealths. Second enemy jugg grabs the newly respanwed ball as the first runs back to center. Repeat. There was no way to prevent it. It doesn't make huttball one-dimensional, it makes it so you have to.. pass the ball, or brute-force walk it in. It actually inspires whole-team teamwork, instead of one tank queueing with a stealther buddy and scoring 8 second caps. Before you even try the "well the other team shouldnt have let him leap to them" - there's no way, even in an organized team game, that you're going to have NO ONE defending your scaffoldings trying to prevent enemies from getting into pass positions. There is always somene to jump to on the center-side of the pit. Avoiding giving LoS to a tank when coming out of your rez zone.. sure. Reasonable to expect good playres not to be stupid.. but he doesnt need you, he's got an OPerative/Assassin or their mirror to jump to instead. Hillarious. Other premades seem to have no problem preventing that when i do it. "No way to prevent" lmao. Kill the second jugg, pull/push him away, take the ball yourself etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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