Concealment Operative and Tree's

[astrolite]

I'm torn between 10% shiv damage and -4% damage taken for the last 2 points. Maybe it's because I'm low expertise at this point, but I find the reduced damage taken to be really helpful in the 1-on-1 setting. Probably because I don't have enough expertise to burst someone down in 1 cycle and I end up having to play games with sever tendon...

 

Not worth it.

 

3k damage hits it would only be reduced by 120 points. The 1 point talented stim boost probably provides overall better mitigation through the healing (100HP/second for me, overall).

 

Getting rid of the shiv damage means you'll take slightly longer (good luck quantifying it overall) to kill some one, so at the best you'd break even but I am doubtful here. I think the 10% shiv damage is necessity for any concealment build.

[Spatzimaus]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401McZGIModkrbfzZhM.1

 

Been using this forever now.

 

I'm identical, except that instead of two points in Jarring Strike, I put two points in Scouting. JS gives your Hidden Strikes a knockdown... except that in solo PvE, you're not going to be using HS more than once per fight, if that, so it's not really that useful. Scouting's stealth detection isn't worth anything in PvE, really, but the +2% defense is kind of nice when you're soloing with Lokin. If I grouped more then I'd probably switch to your exact build.

 

But other than that, yes, exactly the same in every way. You really can't ignore the usefulness of Incisive Action, even as a Conceal Op; not only does it make Kolto Injection's 2.5s cast time a more manageable 2.0 (which is great when you're spot-healing in your group), but being able to add TAs while healing (to use for your Stim Boosts) is great. Even better, it gives you a way to start ANY fight with a TA already in place, simply by healing yourself before the fight starts.

 

And you just can't go wrong with Cunning and crit chance boosts, or the Shiv damage boost.

[Spatzimaus]

I really like this build. Just one question: How did you start? Did you go into concealment first to get Laceration asap or did you spend your first points in Medicine and Lethalty to get a solid foundation?

 

Since I have an almost identical build, I'll tell you what I did:

 

> Up to 19, take whatever you want of those low-level talents.

> At 20, respec to pure Conceal, take Laceration, and then from 21-23 Collateral Strike and Waylay,

> Up to level 33, take those ten points in the Medicine and Lethality trees.

> Up to 39, take more Conceal talents.

> At 40, respec back to pure Conceal to get Acid Blade.

> Up to 50, retake the ten points in the other trees.

 

Respecs reset in cost every week, so don't feel bad about using a few on the way up to leapfrog back and forth like that.

[Menoske]

I've used both the 5 - 31 - 5 build (improved injection basically) and hte cookie cutter 3-31-7 build for pvp extensively. Both have their advantages and are kind of a wash IMO. It really just depends on yer playstyle, although with the changes to medpacs the 5-31-5 might get my attention now.

 

Slip Away changes yer debilitate's cooldown to 30 seconds from 45 and gives a speed boost. I've seen a lot of people dissing this talent and saying its unneeded, however it's quite nice in 2v1 and WZ situations, or if you have a healer trying to save yer target. Use debilitate on the healer, speed boosts gets you back to yer target faster. If the healer uses his break free then you throw a flashbang on him and go back to yer target. This pretty much negates a healer (if theyre standing right next to my target at opener ill flatten my main target, debilitate the healer, and back to mine..flashbang as needed). The reduced CD is very nice for prolonged encounters or even when chaining kills > hidden strikes in warzones. I don't know how many times i've been able to solo a healer +1 on the alderaan sides to take the point for my team.

 

The 5-31-5 build is nice in that you ALWAYS have TA up. Get injured/back out of a fight, move around corner/safe, start healing. 2.0 sec > 2.5 second heals any day. Use the TA to pre-load a stim boost and have 2 lacerates ready right after the hidden strike. (1 TA from HS, 1 from KI).

 

To each their own, but either one of these builds has advantages.

[Spatzimaus]

Slip Away changes yer debilitate's cooldown to 30 seconds from 45 and gives a speed boost. I've seen a lot of people dissing this talent and saying its unneeded, however it's quite nice in 2v1 and WZ situations, or if you have a healer trying to save yer target.

 

This is the big reason I'd ever consider a 3-31-7 build. Debilitate is the one of the few skills that I have where I use it every time it comes up, even in PvE. (Stim Boost is the other.) Being able to set up our Acid Blade-Backstab-Eviscerate combo 50% more often is just huge, and I've used it to save my healer's life quite a few times, stunning the enemy until the tank regains control. So even without the PvP side of things, it'd be a fantastic talent to get... but then there's the opportunity cost. Do you drop the massive improvement to Kolto Injection (which makes it good enough to allow you to act as a support healer temporarily AND lets you start any tough fight with Stim Boost active)? Do you drop 6% from Cunning? (You can't drop 4% from your crit chance or 10% Shiv damage, since those talents would still be needed to get your 5 in Lethality.) Sure, if you only ever PvP and don't care about flexibility, then Incisive Action isn't too great. But it's saved my PvE groups SO many times, where I helped out the healer against tough flashpoint mobs (especially now, with the stimpack changes), and I couldn't have done it without that talent. I've had it where the healer had to immediately drop from the group, leaving us healerless, and I filled in for an entire flashpoint using only my dinky heals... not easy, but it works.

 

But here's the thing I realized: someday, the level 50 cap will be raised. If they raise it to 55, OR provide some other way to gain a handful of additional talent points, realize what you'll be able to spend it on in that 5/31/5 build: Slip Away, Endorphin Rush, Chem-Resistant Inlays, Lethal Injectors, or some of the skills in Concealment that you bypassed. Lots of good stuff in those low tiers... so even if I don't take Slip Away or Jarring Strike right now, I'll be able to get them eventually. Of course, if they provide other high-end talents to spend those extra points on, then maybe we'd be right back where we are now...

Alternately, they might implement one of the dual-spec ideas that have been floated and allow us to store complete builds and swap between them at the fleet. If they do that, then my second build would almost definitely be a Medicine-based one, in which case Incisive Action isn't quite as useful; it'd still be nice for being able to create TAs before combat, but the other motivation (emergency healer) would no longer apply as often.

 

But I still like the 5-31-5.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Spatzimaus

[Niddi]

Since I have an almost identical build, I'll tell you what I did:

 

Thanks a lot for the detailed description. I have to admit that I've never thought about using respecs this way.

[Grendol]

I'm torn between 10% shiv damage and -4% damage taken for the last 2 points. Maybe it's because I'm low expertise at this point, but I find the reduced damage taken to be really helpful in the 1-on-1 setting. Probably because I don't have enough expertise to burst someone down in 1 cycle and I end up having to play games with sever tendon...

 

I may be right or wrong on this but as soon as you hit 50 you are very reliant on your gear such as Expertise like you are saying. I noticed one piece of gear boosted me on my 1v1 fights with my buds.

[Grendol]

Wondering how many of you guys pick up Survival Training and drop Conditioning or what not. Been chatting with members in my guild about this...

[Spatzimaus]

Wondering how many of you guys pick up Survival Training and drop Conditioning or what not.

 

The build AmandaBynes had posted earlier, which is nearly identical to my own, does exactly this.

Taking three ranks of Inclement Conditioning boosts your max HP by 4-5%, which also boosts your rather piddly innate HP regeneration. Taking three ranks of Survival Training does three things: boosts when others heal you by 9%, boosts when you heal yourself by 12%, and boosts when you heal others by 3%.

So:

> If you only care about your survivability when receiving a massive burst of damage (say, from a Smuggler in PvP, or the massive counterattack you'd get after you gank the other team's healer), then you need the higher max HP from Conditioning; Survival Training only helps if your group has time to react before you die (and if they're in range in the first place).

> If you care about being able to win in a sustained fight, like in PvE, then max HP doesn't really matter, but the increased incoming heals DO make a difference. (I haven't checked; do stimpacks count as heals for this?)

> If you're healing other people, then there's no debate: like many defensive abilities, Conditioning does nothing if you're not the person getting hit. Sure, if you're Conceal then you won't be the main healer for a group, and 3% isn't huge, but it's better than nothing. If you're soloing then you'll be hit a lot, but in a group the tank will be taking most of the beating while you burst down one target at a time.

 

So in PvP I could see the Endurance being more important, but in PvE there's really no question of which is better; the question is really whether you should take EITHER of these, and that depends mostly on your opinion of Culling, Jarring Strike, Pin Down, Scouting, etc. (the other talents in Concealment that people might skip on the way up).

[Grendol]

The build AmandaBynes had posted earlier, which is nearly identical to my own, does exactly this.

Taking three ranks of Inclement Conditioning boosts your max HP by 4-5%, which also boosts your rather piddly innate HP regeneration. Taking three ranks of Survival Training does three things: boosts when others heal you by 9%, boosts when you heal yourself by 12%, and boosts when you heal others by 3%.

So:

> If you only care about your survivability when receiving a massive burst of damage (say, from a Smuggler in PvP, or the massive counterattack you'd get after you gank the other team's healer), then you need the higher max HP from Conditioning; Survival Training only helps if your group has time to react before you die (and if they're in range in the first place).

> If you care about being able to win in a sustained fight, like in PvE, then max HP doesn't really matter, but the increased incoming heals DO make a difference. (I haven't checked; do stimpacks count as heals for this?)

> If you're healing other people, then there's no debate: like many defensive abilities, Conditioning does nothing if you're not the person getting hit. Sure, if you're Conceal then you won't be the main healer for a group, and 3% isn't huge, but it's better than nothing. If you're soloing then you'll be hit a lot, but in a group the tank will be taking most of the beating while you burst down one target at a time.

 

So in PvP I could see the Endurance being more important, but in PvE there's really no question of which is better; the question is really whether you should take EITHER of these, and that depends mostly on your opinion of Culling, Jarring Strike, Pin Down, Scouting, etc. (the other talents in Concealment that people might skip on the way up).

 

Sweet thanks for your reasoning on this!