Assassins suck

[Vyrion]

These threads make me giggle. Granted I haven't pvp'd in this game yet, but the people that post about being unable to kill class quest elites just leave me dumbfounded. I killed most of the class quest elites while they were 2-3 levels above me and killed Thanaton at 49 without dying.

 

Just use your head people, you can't just spam thrash, you have kick, you have gouge, you have kidney shot, use them. Also, I leveled as deception spec but in dark charge, good damage and survivability. Also, how do people come up with the idea that Assassin is not a rogue analogue? Most of the abilities are directly lifted from rogue, I don't even remember what some of them are called here because I know them by their rogue names, the only difference is that instead of combo points you have stacks of induction/voltaic slash.

 

The funny part is that the induction capping at 2 instead of 5 isn't even that big of a difference because mutilate gave 2 CP anyway, and 3 on a crit, so dumping after 2 mutes is normal for assassination spec anyway.

[Nocorras]

These threads make me giggle. Granted I haven't pvp'd in this game yet, but the people that post about being unable to kill class quest elites just leave me dumbfounded. I killed most of the class quest elites while they were 2-3 levels above me and killed Thanaton at 49 without dying.

 

Just use your head people, you can't just spam thrash, you have kick, you have gouge, you have kidney shot, use them. Also, I leveled as deception spec but in dark charge, good damage and survivability. Also, how do people come up with the idea that Assassin is not a rogue analogue? Most of the abilities are directly lifted from rogue, I don't even remember what some of them are called here because I know them by their rogue names, the only difference is that instead of combo points you have stacks of induction/voltaic slash.

 

The funny part is that the induction capping at 2 instead of 5 isn't even that big of a difference because mutilate gave 2 CP anyway, and 3 on a crit, so dumping after 2 mutes is normal for assassination spec anyway.

 

 

They say assassins arent a rogue, because well... if you play an assassin like a rogue you will fail hard.

[Vyrion]

How? Why? The abilities at least for deception mirror assassination, the only real difference is that you don't have to apply rupture, though since CttC rolls Slice and Dice anyway I hardly consider that a significant difference. I guess instead of rupture you maul on proc, so yeah, big difference there. Again, I haven't PvP'd yet, but it seems similar enough, there's a snare, there's sap, there's gouge, and there's a KS that doesn't take combo points.

 

You probably just don't understand how rogues worked in WoW, it was never about zomagad burstdeepeess from BC on when resilience was introduced in PvP (except arguably for a short while when AR/prep PvP builds existed) and never about it in raiding, in PvP it's about control and in raiding it's about watching timers and keeping your cycle as smooth as possible without energy capping or wasting combo builders.

[Nocorras]

How? Why? The abilities at least for deception mirror assassination, the only real difference is that you don't have to apply rupture, though since CttC rolls Slice and Dice anyway I hardly consider that a significant difference. I guess instead of rupture you maul on proc, so yeah, big difference there. Again, I haven't PvP'd yet, but it seems similar enough, there's a snare, there's sap, there's gouge, and there's a KS that doesn't take combo points.

 

You probably just don't understand how rogues worked in WoW, it was never about zomagad burstdeepeess from BC on when resilience was introduced in PvP (except arguably for a short while when AR/prep PvP builds existed) and never about it in raiding, in PvP it's about control and in raiding it's about watching timers and keeping your cycle as smooth as possible without energy capping or wasting combo builders.

 

 

Yeah, Gladiator rogue doesn't know how rogues work. If you want to play a rogue go play an operative.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Nocorras

[Vyrion]

Ok buddy, you tell yourself whatever you want, but if you are honestly arguing that Deception does not play like Assassination rogue then you don't know how rogues work. Voltaic Slash = mutilate Shock = envenom Mind Trap = sap Low Slash = gouge etc etc. There are analogues for every skill other than rupture and slice and dice, of which one was just a passive self raid buff essentially (and didn't really affect cycle because CttC rolled it) and rupture, which gets replaced more or less with Maul, except that instead of using spare combo points it's just spammed on CD. The mechanics are the same though, down to the silly +10 energy talent and overkill making vanish a weak dps CD!

 

PvP wise it's actually MORE similar, the only difference is that you don't have to worry about equipping poisons because your snare is just a skill, and there isn't a wound or mind numbing analogue. But the general idea is extremely similar, interrupt and control. There is a reason some top Cata arena rogues used warglaives, because it didn't matter much, it's not about damage, it's about control.

[Nocorras]

Ok buddy. Keep acting like you have pvp'd once in this game when you admit you haven't. Go ahead and play like a rogue, you'll be on these forums crying too that assassins suck. Edited January 16, 2012 by Nocorras

[daverhaze]

Ok buddy. Keep acting like you have pvp'd once in this game when you admit you haven't. Go ahead and play like a rogue, you'll be on these forums crying too that assassins suck.

 

Take you blinkers off fella, seriously. Near 90% of the abilities mimic a wow rogue.

 

Granted they arnt 100% identical but they do have a remarkable similarity and play style.

[swtornabooo]

assasin really suck.Can someone lauch a petition to bioware to fix assasin

[daverhaze]

They dont suck at all, infact quite the opposite.

 

Its just some of the mechanics need fixing ie force cloak and maul

[Nocorras]

Take you blinkers off fella, seriously. Near 90% of the abilities mimic a wow rogue.

 

Granted they arnt 100% identical but they do have a remarkable similarity and play style.

 

Take your bad glasses off. If you can't look at what your spells do an figure out why the playstyle won't work in this game then no one can help you.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Nocorras

[daverhaze]

Take your bad glasses off.

 

Explain how they are different then instead of coming back with the child like replies

Edited January 16, 2012 by daverhaze

[FRISKI]

Couldn't agree more op, got to 50 with my assassin a week ago. Currently at 45 valor rank and I just could not be more disappointed with this class. Just the way it functions, it's weak and NOT ENJOYABLE to play.

[-Shadowfist-]

Totally agree with the OP. ALMOST every class is better than assassin for DPS/Tank/Heals.

 

I too have a mercenary now... and omg... they're just better in every single way.

 

It's a shame so many dolts keep defending assassins... they obviously haven't reached the point of realization where it becomes obvious that you're just spinning your wheels. I'm getting my assassin to V60 (so close..) and parking him until they fix deception.

 

The point is, assassins take a lot of skill and comprehension to play effectively. I, and other, have reached this point, and we're damn good at playing our assassins. An assassin playing at the top of their game will NEVER be as good as most other classes playing at the top of theirs.

[kainsec]

I have said it before and I will say it again there is nothing inherently wrong with the class. The class is in a very good spot. Does it need some tweaking of course but what class in this game can't use tweaks up or down that's the nature of PvP.

 

All 3 trees are very good but do play differently. Ppl whine about not doing Sco/Op burst in deception but guess what they don't have a secondary gap closer (force speed), good resource management, or defensive cds. They only have burst in their burst spec and nothing else.

 

Incoming crit for wall o' text skip to last paragraph for summary.

 

 

Now I do think their is an issue with sins and all melee classes which is why all melee classes feel weak (except sco/op who have enough burst to outwiegh the disadvantages of melee). I believe the real issue is the relationship between Range and Melee in this game. In a standard relationship between range and melee the ranged players are given tools to kite and evade melee bc if melee reaches them melee is suppose to wreck them. Melee should have to work to get in range for this benefit which is why ranged get kiting tools to keep melee balanced.

 

This is normally done by giving melee tools to punish range in close range (minimum range on ranged abilities, melee has better damage, or melee has higher survivability one of those 3 are the standard).

 

In SWtOR range has all the advantages of melee and more. They have all the CC melee has (normally at higher range), they have virtually the same damage as melee but can project that damage anywhere in a 30m range (35 for sniper/gun and some sorc/sage abilities) in fact many warzones have areas while in a straight line are 30m have terrain blocking that requires more than double that to reach ranged, They all have at least medium armor some have heavy armor (one has heavy armor and heals), tanking stats except armor are useless in PvP so range has no problem burning down tanks either, and normal anti range tools such as push back and interrupts are fairly weak in this game.

 

For example the paragon of range classes atm Merc/Vanguards (don't think they are OP atm as I don't think any classes are OP given that I feel we haven't had enough time to compare and contrast) have 2 kbs through speccing one with a snare component and both can through set bonuses and speccing have less than 20 seconds cd giving them virtually no excuse to ever let melee into range if they are actually kiting and not just standing still doing long casts. They have heavy armor and limited healing capability if DPS spec. They do fantastic damage in both Pyrotech/mirror (free moving spec) and in Arsenal/mirror (omgwtfbbq long cast spec). Fortunately most of the have not yet figured out kiting and our still standing still atm.

 

What does melee have, well they have CC most within 10m range which means they already had to close the distance while range was projecting damage and using superior ranged CC, they have gap closers well unless your Sco/Op then your screwed totally but even then every single range classes has more than one way to shut down gap closers and melee classes only get one in combat gap closer, melee does have interrupts but they are fairly high cd and only lock out a single ability for 4 seconds hardly punishing, melee admittedly does have better damage but not by any margin that one would describe as significant given the amount of damage range can project before melee gets into range.

 

So since melee has not one single advantage over range the relationship between the two is broken. So what possible solutions are there. Well since range has very little incentive to kite one solution would be to give melee classes ground damage abilities. These abilities would do damage to anyone standing in the area dealing progressively more the longer a person stays put, and unlike most sustained GTAoE these would be fire and forget.

 

Another option is adding a second in combat gap closer or in sco/op case a first one which will make getting into range a bit easier and faster. Another option si to increase pushback caused by melee attacks which will deincentivize standing still and laughing in melee's face. A final option is to give all melee classes and proactive CC defense.Aan ability one a long cd that doesn't remove CC but prevents them from being applied for 3 seconds.

 

So to sum it all up. The existing relationship between melee and range is heavily in ranged favor which makes all melee classes feel they are weak. Until the relationship is fixed Sins/Mara/Juggs/Ops will always feel weak bc range classes outperform them simply by being ranged.

Edited January 16, 2012 by kainsec

[FRISKI]

^ except not,

all the other melee classes that you sought to be weak are not.

Yes there is skill involved in having to close the gap between you and your opponent and managing to maintain that throughout a fight but there is no reward involved with it... your opponent should not even be afraid of you force speeding to them or opening on them out of stealth like they would be with OPs, simply because Sins are weak.

[LordbishopX]

I swear I be happy with one decent gap closer force leap or force pull yes please.

[Gryn]

most underpowered class in the game.

 

I swear I be happy with one decent gap closer force leap or force pull yes please.

 

we have a pull. its in the darkness tree. so to get it you have to go tank spec. ...but... it doesnt work all the time. if someone is on a different plane it wont work. where as warriors can force leap across planes and sorcs can grip across planes.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Gryn

[golfwang]

For those who were wondering, I use the build http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bZhGMRkMR0zZf0cRrMz.1

 

I use surging charge as a filler since I sometimes do flashpoints, other than that I stay in Dark Charge for pvp, keep a shield in my offhand, and go half tank gear/dps gear.

 

This build has decent survivability with Dark Charge active, and tons of control on the battlefield. Instant whirlwind with a stun, a 4 second incapacitate, 30% aoe damage reduction, burst from maul, shock, and death field.

 

I will prob switch discharge 2/2 over to avoidance 2/2.

 

I'm sorry but that build is horrible, so unfocused. you're better off going 23/0/18 because I don't see where the damage is coming from in that spec.

 

Aoe reduction talents are instantly skipped, always. Maybe useful as PvE filler.

[Astarica]

Huttball is grossly favored for ranged. You can't hope to fight another ranged character in high elevation since if they knock you down, it's basically over. For that map, Assassins pretty much should stick to the middle or the flat side areas and leave the high elevation fights to other ranged classes unless absolutely necessary.

 

If you're in a flat map like Alderaan or Voidstar, what often happens is you'll see like 4 Commandos lining up in a firing squad. If you're the first melee to run in (and Assassins are generally best suited for this out of all melee as long as you're using Dark Charge). However, you're being focus fired by 4 people so even using Dark Charge you can go down quick, and then they perceive the class as 'weak'.

 

The problem is that if you didn't charge in and eat 4 Grav Rounds in the face, most likely your healer will eat 4 Grav Rounds in the face instead and that's infinitely worse. There is no reason to approach a firing squad stealthily because all that DPS has to go to someone, and with the exception of Ops whose DPS actually depends on being in stealth, you really want those 4 guys to fire on the same melee compared to anyone who can heal, or even another ranged DPS because ranged DPS suffer damage pushback from being attacked. The fact is that if 4 Commandoes are all shooting at the same target, that guy is likely to die and just because you offload the guy who die to someone else doesn't make you a better class/player, especially if the guy who died instead of you is a healer.

[Guertyras]

Totally agree with the OP. ALMOST every class is better than assassin for DPS/Tank/Heals.

 

I too have a mercenary now... and omg... they're just better in every single way.

 

It's a shame so many dolts keep defending assassins... they obviously haven't reached the point of realization where it becomes obvious that you're just spinning your wheels. I'm getting my assassin to V60 (so close..) and parking him until they fix deception.

 

The point is, assassins take a lot of skill and comprehension to play effectively. I, and other, have reached this point, and we're damn good at playing our assassins. An assassin playing at the top of their game will NEVER be as good as most other classes playing at the top of theirs.

 

Exactly feeling the same, except i use trooper now . They just cant admit they picked the broken class.

[RadehX]

I used to play Eve Online for years...and if I learned one thing it's: NEVER pick the FOTM, it'll get nerfed. In Eve, there's a race called Minmatar, and when the game got launched, that race was the worst for a while too. It's now the best. Also, while it was called the worst for years, if you adapted your play style totally around the races strengths/limitations, you made up for it.

 

I have a feeling it's going to be the same here. Just pick a class you enjoy playing, stats will change

[Snaex]

Assassins are fine, its the other classes that are the problem. We do great damage, have a decent amount of escape tools. The real problem are the classes like Mercenary that have heavy armor, can heal themselves and spam tracer missle for 3k a clip.

[Abiza]

I think the problem is that Assassin is supposed to be a creative tank, but everyone is trying to play it like a rogue. If you want the 'rogue' class, you have to play IA. Assassin is a tank.

 

Oh really? So is that why I have two dps trees?

[Keengamer]

Could use a small buff to the deception tree, darkness will probably be fine once they fix the self heal and shield.

[Korzinski]

I used to play Eve Online for years...and if I learned one thing it's: NEVER pick the FOTM, it'll get nerfed. In Eve, there's a race called Minmatar, and when the game got launched, that race was the worst for a while too. It's now the best. Also, while it was called the worst for years, if you adapted your play style totally around the races strengths/limitations, you made up for it.

 

I have a feeling it's going to be the same here. Just pick a class you enjoy playing, stats will change

 

 

You have no idea what you are talking about, sir.

Things are not nerfed in EVE. Slight adjustments are made to bring things on par with each other, i.e., hybrids in Crucible. Want to know why Minmatar ships are the "best" right now? Because since tech 3 cruisers were implemented, the way PVP was done has changed. Now it is about high mobility hard hitting ships, which is exactly what minmatar are. Previously, it was gallente that were the best, because they were able to chase targets down, tackle them, and melt them under huge DPS at point blank range. Between then and Crucible, hybrids never became bad, instead, people played their PVP in a different manner and hybrids became obsolete. They still did huge DPS, they still had the same stats, but people started to fly ships that were capable of avoiding the strengths of that playstyle.

I hope I've helped.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Korzinski