The Sith are the dumbest villains ever.

[Thaed]

I'm not sure about the force users, but I had a few actual difficult moral choices on my agent. Take, for example, the end of Act 1.

 

 

I'm trying to stop several galactic weapons poised to strike numerous Republic and Empire planets, which will kill billions. I have a choice: stop the weapons outright, which will likely let the bad guy get away, or allow the weapons to fire briefly killing hundreds of thousands, so I have a chance to stab him in the back and end it.

 

Potentially, choosing the first option could result in many more deaths down the track and an even bigger thread to both the Empire and the Republic. But are hundreds of thousands of lives worth maybe stopping something in the future?

 

 

Took me a while to decide on that one.

[xXCheXGuevaraXx]

The Jedi and the Sith are both pretty moronic.

 

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. , says a Jedi, who deal in absolutes just as much.

 

"Well from my point of view the Jedi are evil."

 

"THEN YOU ARE LOST RAWRAWRAWRRWRAWRWR"

[DarthHogger]

Indeed, there's no real fun in just killing everyone all the time. Personally Sith that value honor in relation to power seem pretty cool to me.

 

Killing everyone all the time is what makes me happy.

[Salmissra]

You guys are completely confusing "Dark Side" with "The Sith" here. You're also confusing "Murderous Rampager" with "Cunning Deception".

 

These are not the same thing.

 

There is a huge difference between a Sith who murders as whimsy and one who twists resources towards her own goals.

 

A Sith is perfectly capable of allowing someone to live (Light Side choice) in return for unquestioning loyalty / betrayal of former masters (furthers Sith goals)

 

The most powerful Sith didn't just kill everyone they met. They gained followers and the loyalty of millions through deception, bribery, shared goals/views/beliefs, etc.

 

I've never had any problem rationalizing my 10,000 LS / 0 DS Bounty Hunter as a member of the Sith Empire.

 

Just like plenty of Jedi could be falling to the Dark Side but working to advance the Republic's goals.

 

my question is.. how can there ever be more than two sith if the apprentice always kills the master? and if a master takes two apprentices, who gets to kill the master and what does the other one do to 'graduate'??

 

The "Rule of Two" http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_of_Two

is not followed/formalized at this time of the game.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Salmissra

[abishe]

I'm sorry but they are.... the whole sith code and thier logic is just completely stupid.

 

"Oh hi, im going to learn from my master, then kill him, then train an apprentice then get killed by him"

 

"Im gonna kill and hurt everyone I see because numbers arnt important in a war, yet we seem to have such a bigger army than the republic out of nowhere".

 

"Im gonna save my wife by killing everyone I ever liked and then kill here... because that makes sense."

 

I dont get it, oh sure opposite of light side, but in a completely stupid manor.

 

you sound just like a sith, you happends to play one?

[Minifarfar]

Jedi Knight

 

If u play a jedi knight u actually turn a trueblooded sith from the dark side and make him join the jedi cuz he thinks you are honorable and stronger

 

[TheUnNamedHero]

I'm sorry but they are.... the whole sith code and thier logic is just completely stupid.

 

"Oh hi, im going to learn from my master, then kill him, then train an apprentice then get killed by him"

 

"Im gonna kill and hurt everyone I see because numbers arnt important in a war, yet we seem to have such a bigger army than the republic out of nowhere".

 

"Im gonna save my wife by killing everyone I ever liked and then kill here... because that makes sense."

 

I dont get it, oh sure opposite of light side, but in a completely stupid manor.

 

Your problem isn't with Sith. It's with what George Lucas says is Sith.

[OOTOC]

To qoute Darth Helmet.

 

"Good always loses becuase good is stupid"

 

 

wow not even close. the quote is "Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb"

 

also, sith aren't the villains, it's a point of view thing

Edited January 14, 2012 by OOTOC

[TheUnNamedHero]

And yet, manage to hide in plain sight of the jedi, manipulating events on a galactic scale.

 

So who is more dumb?

 

George Lucas obviously.

[Mustard]

as a sentinel i have quite a few ds points. there are many 'ls/ds' options where the ds seems to be more of a ls way to go..

 

 

 

On Coruscant there is a quest to obtain some data that will show that a Senator is trying to ally with the Sith Empire

 

If I don't take the documents and give them to the quest giver it is a ls decision. If i ignore the aid who finds me and turns over the documents it is a ds decision..

 

say whaaaa???? /scratches head

 

 

 

 

That's about infringing on a persons civil rights. Denying someone their rights (no matter how noble your reasoning) likely conflicts with the Jedi Code.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Mustard

[HELhikari]

why would anyone live in North Korea? or why do people live in crappy 3rd world war torn countries in Africa? Why do people live in France? ... it happens

 

Because if you're born there it's quite hard to stop living there (beyond dying).

[Katrar]

So... what exactly is the Sith's philosophy?

 

Here's a great quote that nicely sums up the Sith philosophy. Notice how it is 180 degrees different than the TOR experience, which is... everyone sucks and must rely on you:

 

"If you seek to aid everyone that suffers in the galaxy, you will only weaken yourself … and weaken them. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won on their own, that yield the strongest rewards… If you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles." - Darth Treya

 

Beyond that, it was not the "Sith way" to indiscriminately kill those that mildly annoyed you. Killing could have its place, but it was usually in the context of a duel and the end result would be the determining of rank or position. Advancement was achieved through violence when necessary, but it was no solely achieved through violence.

 

TOR's Sith are just psychopaths. In the legit SW universe they would probably be purged. The Sith Empire was a cohesive, results oriented society, not a thunderdome where citizens had a 50/50 chance of being randomly gutted by a passing Sith apprentice or Lord each day.

[Mustard]

because if you're born there it's quite hard to stop living there (beyond dying).

 

truth

[Ansultares]

Empire dark side is overkill, as I imagine any Republic light side stuff is (though smuggler was interesting enough). Empire light side was alright; many of your choices result in greater suffering for the target npc.

 

Until at some point you realize that every choice is accommodated for; I've been light 5 since the mid 30s, but you wouldn't know it by Darth Baras' responses. At one point he contacted me to complain, but in hindsight that was linked to the local planet quest chain.

 

Jedi Knight

You do the same thing in reverse as a Sith Warrior. As Empire light, I was allowed to leave her as a jedi. I'm sure the same is true for Republic dark jedi knights.

 

Edited January 14, 2012 by Ansultares

[Mustard]

Here's a great quote that nicely sums up the Sith philosophy. Notice how it is 180 degrees different than the TOR experience, which is... everyone sucks and must rely on you:

 

"If you seek to aid everyone that suffers in the galaxy, you will only weaken yourself … and weaken them. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won on their own, that yield the strongest rewards… If you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles." - Darth Treya

 

Beyond that, it was not the "Sith way" to indiscriminately kill those that mildly annoyed you. Killing could have its place, but it was usually in the context of a duel and the end result would be the determining of rank or position. Advancement was achieved through violence when necessary, but it was no solely achieved through violence.

 

TOR's Sith are just psychopaths. In the legit SW universe they would probably be purged. The Sith Empire was a cohesive, results oriented society, not a thunderdome where citizens had a 50/50 chance of being randomly gutted by a passing Sith apprentice or Lord each day.

 

 

Hmm... that was beautiful. I find myself far more in line with that sort of thinking.

 

What I find ironic is that Darth Treya was a product of the KOTOR series. Not BioWare's product (as Obsidian developed KOTOR II), but a KOTOR series product nonetheless.

[TheUnNamedHero]

Here's a great quote that nicely sums up the Sith philosophy. Notice how it is 180 degrees different than the TOR experience, which is... everyone sucks and must rely on you:

 

"If you seek to aid everyone that suffers in the galaxy, you will only weaken yourself … and weaken them. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won on their own, that yield the strongest rewards… If you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles." - Darth Treya

 

Beyond that, it was not the "Sith way" to indiscriminately kill those that mildly annoyed you. Killing could have its place, but it was usually in the context of a duel and the end result would be the determining of rank or position. Advancement was achieved through violence when necessary, but it was no solely achieved through violence.

 

TOR's Sith are just psychopaths. In the legit SW universe they would probably be purged. The Sith Empire was a cohesive, results oriented society, not a thunderdome where citizens had a 50/50 chance of being randomly gutted by a passing Sith apprentice or Lord each day.

 

TBH Treya wasn't a Sith. She started out as a Jedi master who's students, including Revan although she questions if he actually fell or was simply true to his nature, fell to the darkside after Malacor V. After being outcast, she began studying Sith teachings, taking on the mantle of Darth, but was eventually cast out from the Sith as well. After having been exiled by both the Jedi and Sith, she held an abhorrence of how both Orders were used by the Force to its own ends, harboring delusions of freeing the galaxy of its influence. Thus, she was neither Jedi nor Sith. Her philosophy was her own.

[lokdron]

Here's a great quote that nicely sums up the Sith philosophy. Notice how it is 180 degrees different than the TOR experience, which is... everyone sucks and must rely on you:

 

"If you seek to aid everyone that suffers in the galaxy, you will only weaken yourself … and weaken them. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won on their own, that yield the strongest rewards… If you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles." - Darth Treya

 

Beyond that, it was not the "Sith way" to indiscriminately kill those that mildly annoyed you. Killing could have its place, but it was usually in the context of a duel and the end result would be the determining of rank or position. Advancement was achieved through violence when necessary, but it was no solely achieved through violence.

 

TOR's Sith are just psychopaths. In the legit SW universe they would probably be purged. The Sith Empire was a cohesive, results oriented society, not a thunderdome where citizens had a 50/50 chance of being randomly gutted by a passing Sith apprentice or Lord each day.

 

When you reach a certain dark side rank in the game she then tells a DS exile to accept other peoples problems because they challenge you mentally and physically and while doing so it weakens the person who gave you the said problem. Plus she tells you to view everyone has tools to strengthen you and when you are done with them dispose of them and if you agree with her you get dark side points.

 

@Hero well in my opinion traya teachings are pretty much how to improve the sith and whenever you manipulate someone she gains approval. hell i persuaded someone to commit suicide in kotor 2 since my exile found the fool to be weak and pathetic and guess what she gained approval from me doing that plus a good net of dark side points. Lets not forget lieing to the man that all the monsters are gone casuing him to run to his death and you picking up the lightsaber part for free. These are pretty much sith acts. Lets not forget at the end of the game kriea pretty much states that if the exile murders their companions they will be stronger in the dark side and if she saves them she will be weaker for it.

 

Since the sith philopshy is pretty much about breaking your chains and your companions are chains. In my opinion even if she wants to deny it she is still sith and become one again at the end of the game to test the exile. since if you listen to her she talks about disposing of people who are no longer useful to you and using a companion to destory a certain sith lord. Pretty much she is spouting sith teachings and a LS exile pretty much disagrees with her at every turn.

 

Here is the video of the scene. When kriea is talking about the exile being dark side.

Edited January 15, 2012 by lokdron

[KelbornX]

One thing to consider is that the Sith Empire in TOR is doomed to fail. It's going to fall, the Republic is going to rise to prominence again, then the Dark Brotherhood is going to come and attack some thousands of year from now, and they will give us Darth Bane who completely reorganizes the Sith.

 

The Sith in this era of the game are complete morons. They're all over the top murdering psychopaths in this age. In fact, the Sith Inquisitor was designed to be like Emperor Palpatine: either manipulative / deceptive, or ******* insane. The Sith of ages past (Exar Kun, Ajunta Pall, Marka Ragnos, etc etc) were arguably smarter at leading at Empire than these fools.

 

As was said, eventually Darth Bane purges the Sith and establilshes the Rule of Two: One Master, one Apprentice. One to embody the power, the other to crave it. But then Palpatine screws that all up, and if he had any brains whatsoever he would have killed Padme and blamed it on the Jedi or Sepratists before Anakin could father twin Force sensitives... but that's just my pro-Sith wishful thinking. XD

 

Things get a little more sensible during Darth Krayt's reign; the Jedi are kept around as Imperial Knights and not made an enemy, and infighting among Sith is nowhere near as prevalent.

Edited January 15, 2012 by KelbornX

[BrandonSM]

I'm sorry but they are.... the whole sith code and thier logic is just completely stupid.

 

"Oh hi, im going to learn from my master, then kill him, then train an apprentice then get killed by him"

 

"Im gonna kill and hurt everyone I see because numbers arnt important in a war, yet we seem to have such a bigger army than the republic out of nowhere".

 

"Im gonna save my wife by killing everyone I ever liked and then kill here... because that makes sense."

 

I dont get it, oh sure opposite of light side, but in a completely stupid manor.

 

Read the Darth Bane trilogy and you'll understand the philosophy.

[smartalectwo]

It's not so much stupidity as faith. The Sith are a religious cult as much as the Jedi, and they really do believe their way - of the power of the will and of the individual - is the true way. Thus, they'll follow it to the end, even sacrificing themselves to it through their apprentices. Individual Sith may have their own ambitions, but in the end all that matters is that they defeat the Jedi some day by sticking to their beliefs, and prove themselves right.

 

If they win by going against their beliefs, then it was all for nothing.

Edited January 15, 2012 by smartalectwo

[Dezzi]

I'm sorry but they are.... the whole sith code and thier logic is just completely stupid.

 

"Oh hi, im going to learn from my master, then kill him, then train an apprentice then get killed by him"

 

"Im gonna kill and hurt everyone I see because numbers arnt important in a war, yet we seem to have such a bigger army than the republic out of nowhere".

 

"Im gonna save my wife by killing everyone I ever liked and then kill here... because that makes sense."

 

I dont get it, oh sure opposite of light side, but in a completely stupid manor.

 

On the point about the code: It's meant to be a sort of "survival of the fittest" mantra, encouraging strong Sith to wipe out weaker Sith so that only the strong remain. It's actually a very good philosophy for an organization that has little moral dilemma concerning death. It's also a process that has me sitting here typing on a computer.

 

Palpatine manages to steal the entire Galactic Republic from the inside. He simply just takes it. That makes him a pretty damn good villain if you ask me.

[Idunhavaname]

Agree which is why I rolled Republic. Im a big fan of Empire and galaxy domination but to be ruled by incompetent morons is just sad. At least with Thrawn's empire you knew you were in good powerful hands (not to mention that he couldve probably stoped Vong invasion). Edited January 15, 2012 by Idunhavaname

[Piratekinq]

The sith follow a Darwinian style code. Which is survival of the fittest/strongest. Their code ensures that they are always in competition for power which is why the sith keep bouncing back with a bigger badder army every 1000 years. Story wise they make a good villain because they are the exact opposite of what the jedi believe.

[bfishback]

The Rule of Two is hardly dumb. It was the reason why the Sith actually destroy the Jedi..

 

And they didn't care that their apprentice would one day kill them, most understood that it was needed for the Sith to succeed. Despite being selfish people they thought of the bigger picture, the destruction of the Jedi.

Edited January 15, 2012 by bfishback

[Stormcloudx]

The game overdoes the whole kill kill thing a bit. I respect Baras and JAdus though..jadus is smart and manipulative, and baras just does things to further his goals. However the player has the option for mindless killing the most.

 

 

The most successful sith (and primary sith leaders that formed the empire in this era) were balanced and excellent thinkers.