Expertise is a giant mistake, didn't you learn from Trion?

[Almghty_gir]

Expertise is easily attainable once you hit 50. It takes less than a week to get a solid array of Champ Gear unless you are pathetically unlucky. For the majority of the population, they'll have 4-5 piece champ by the end of week 1.

 

Given that expertise only accounts for 10% extra damage (as well as less damage taken, etc) your point is moot.

 

AT THE MOMENT.

 

this will change once the brackets go live, and the dailys are changed to revolve around player kills. at that point, new 50's are going to struggle big time.

[EternalFinality]

Seriously? Expertise is the BEST decision the devs made with this game. Remember when Vanilla WOW added BGs and people with PVE raid garbage dominated PVP? Let's continue to avoid that kind of disaster. Thanks!

 

I do remember, I was there. Raid gear was the best gear out there because there WAS no gear attainable from PvP that even came close.

 

This "garbage" was due to a gear power disparity (and because the raid people were actually playing as a team using vent) - NOT a lack of an expertise stat. If PvP gear was the same power then there would have been no problem at all.

[KiznaCat]

Didn't bother to read the whole whine threat.

 

But honestly, I'm lvl 22 Sorc, madness tree, and i steamroll some of the lvl 50's with battlemaster gear, So I don't see the problem with expertise at all. It gives them a bit bonus dmg and defense, thats about it. No big deal.

[RealAeiouy]

I do remember, I was there. Raid gear was the best gear out there because there WAS no gear attainable from PvP that even came close.

 

This "garbage" was due to a gear power disparity (and because the raid people were actually playing as a team using vent) - NOT a lack of an expertise stat. If PvP gear was the same power then there would have been no problem at all.

 

There is a reason for that the reason that makes all this expertise handwringing moot.

 

People need to stop saying all they need to do is make gear equal. That is not an option

[ihateyouall]

Expertise is easily attainable once you hit 50. It takes less than a week to get a solid array of Champ Gear unless you are pathetically unlucky. For the majority of the population, they'll have 4-5 piece champ by the end of week 1.

 

Given that expertise only accounts for 10% extra damage (as well as less damage taken, etc) your point is moot.

 

I hit 50 this week and got 18 bags. Didn't get a single piece of champ gear. Valor rank 45.

Edited January 15, 2012 by ihateyouall

[kirorx]

gear advantages are for people that have no skill and have to compensate. Gear with expertise can be farmed by terrible players, so it brings nothing good to the table. IMO.

 

I don't know how they did things over in WoW but people that like this division and have sense of entitlement due to mindless grinding is weak and will only hinder you abilites to play.

 

You should get better by learning to play, not by just standing around in warzones collecting valor.

Edited January 15, 2012 by kirorx

[bodhisattvasw]

I couldn't agree more with op's post. Rift was an ungodly pvp nightmare, and when I found out there was a pvp stat in this game Rift was the first thing that sprang to mind. I just bowed my head and sighed.

 

And if it wasn't silly gear that unbalanced everything it was the fact that even though each class had several specs to play you were still funneled into ONE just to be viable in pvp. I bet clerics are still overpowered in that crappy game.

 

Rift has - arguably - the most hideous PVP in any MMO in recent memory.

 

The most unbalanced, atrocious nonsense ever this side of Warhammer's RR100 lumped in with RR10 garbage PVP system. Yes, a R8 cleric is still - unkillable - well unless you have 30-40 R4's to try to take him out. Even worse are rogues, doing so much burst they can kill you before stun wears and you can even hit a key.

 

Sadly, I feel SWTOR is probably heading in the same direction unless some big changes go in. Expertise will only cause hardship unless it's scaled based on valor, and not gear. I am unsure why companies ALWAYS seem to want to cater to BAD PLAYERS that need all of these toys to compete?

 

I mean right now SWTOR is nothing but a bunch of people that rushed to 50 ganking and farming newbs in PVP with absolutely no chance to even put up a fight back. All of these punks already have full champion gear from FARMING NEWBS. While the rest of the galaxy will have to endure endless punishment farming Champ gear against 50s when the bracket comes in.

 

Basically, anyone 50 farming newbs right now I consider a low-life cheater. They're exploiting a seriously flawed system to gain a huge advantage. Bioware should rollback everyone onces the bracket goes in the V40, and pull the champion gear off them. They certainly didn't earn it, and everyone else that buys the game is at a tremendous disadvantage.

 

Rift pvp is trash, will SW make the same mistakes? Myself and 3 sons canceled Rift due to the hideous PVP, and now the pvp servers are GHOST TOWNS.. All of them are 'low' pop, which means less than 500 people even playing on them!

[bodhisattvasw]

When Rift launched, there was no valor.

 

Then the kiddies rushed to 50 (less than 10% of total game pop), then they wanted a 'grind' to keep them playing, and they wanted 'special perks' for having rushed.

 

Trion tossed in Valor without much thought. It seemed OK at first.

 

Then suddenly people started getting really high valor, and everyone else realized people with high valor had a huge advantage over people without. Unfortunately getting it required you to quit your job, and play Rift 10 hours a day for weeks. Suddenly PVP became tremendously imbalanced, the 10% totally owned over the other 90%.

 

Trion added valor to PVE gear to try and balance it, the babies cried, and they removed it from PVE gear.

 

Trion released a big patch, adding in up to Realm Rank 8. Big problem got HUGE as suddenly the kiddies that play 10 hours a day had R8 super-gear with even MORE valor!

 

Within a couple weeks of doing this, it became clear that PVP was IMPOSSIBLE against people in R8 gear with very high valor. Trion went into 'panic' mode, and added the same valor as Rank 8 to ALL pvp gear prior to rank 8. Which means a Rank 2 guy had same valor as Rank 8.

 

This kind of helped, but it was too late. The people that rushed to 50, rushed to r6 and rushed to r8 were already there, in MUCH better gear - valor or otherwise - so you literally had to grind out MONTHS getting owned by unskilled kiddies to get R8. Lots of people resorted to AFKing in Warfronts, and other tactics.

 

But the sad reality is, most of their core pvp base simply quit the game.. Most of Rifts servers are dormant, struggling to keep their populations above 'LOW', and I really do not know more than a few people that stayed. Who are they? Of course the 10% that have a severe advantage over everyone else. Unfortunately you CANNOT pay your bills with 10% of your playerbase still active.

 

Trion deeply regrets this design decision, and has paid dearly for it.. I heard a rumor that Trion is 'heavily' increasing the quality of lower rank gear to try and offset the kiddie 10% in a last ditch effort to draw people back. But I think its too late.

 

SWTOR is heading down the same slippery slope.. You got 10% (probably much less) of your kiddies farming your majority playerbase for severe advantages that may never be able to be corrected. I am stunned that this design decision was made - personally - as it makes no sense business wise to piss off your majority to keep a few kiddies happy.

[oOoPipeoOo]

PvP stat is wrong. I think they have approached it, along wiht most other MMOs, the wrong way.

Instead of adding +/- damage/healing etc to PvP gear they need to just add a negative to raid gear when used in PvP areas/WZs.

So your super duper Sword of Ultimate Slaughter found off of a big nasty Womp Rat gives a minus 3% to players. And each piece of raiding gear you are wearing adds another 3% (random figure used for display purposes only) so if you are in full raid gear you may have a 24% decrease against other players.

 

This way you can still compete in PvP because your base stats are higher from good gear, yet you may need to mix in some other gear.

 

PvP gear, therefore, can just be earned thru PvP and will give no particular advantage/disadvantage against others in PvP. A similar stat (minus) should be applied to high end PvP gear being used against end game raid content.

 

 

I am only talking about high end raid/pvp gear. The usual levelling dungeons etc stuff that is on par with base PvP gear doesnt need to have this stat applied.

 

Makes sense to me.

[bodhisattvasw]

PvP stat is wrong. I think they have approached it, along wiht most other MMOs, the wrong way.

Instead of adding +/- damage/healing etc to PvP gear they need to just add a negative to raid gear when used in PvP areas/WZs.

So your super duper Sword of Ultimate Slaughter found off of a big nasty Womp Rat gives a minus 3% to players. And each piece of raiding gear you are wearing adds another 3% (random figure used for display purposes only) so if you are in full raid gear you may have a 24% decrease against other players.

 

This way you can still compete in PvP because your base stats are higher from good gear, yet you may need to mix in some other gear.

 

PvP gear, therefore, can just be earned thru PvP and will give no particular advantage/disadvantage against others in PvP. A similar stat (minus) should be applied to high end PvP gear being used against end game raid content.

 

 

I am only talking about high end raid/pvp gear. The usual levelling dungeons etc stuff that is on par with base PvP gear doesnt need to have this stat applied.

 

Makes sense to me.

 

Wow that makes so much sense they wouldn't do it! Amazing how players seem to have the best ideas, companies should hire gamers to sit around and discuss this stuff. Stardock does, look at their games as a result - games you can feel a gamer made.

[Husanak]

This thread is like a bad train wreck it's terrible but somehow you just can't stop reading it. It's the classic carebear argument "they get it, and I don't it's not FAIR!". Yes a person who grinds battlemaster should be able to beat you 1 experience they have dealing with other classes and their own 2 they should beat someone in pvp when they farmed "pvp" specific gear 3 because hardcore raiders generally suck at pvp (while pvp'ers are generally good at both because of the knowledge of limitations and strengths of other classes along with their own. Tbh you don't deserve instant gratification just by siting behind the keyboard, just as you wouldn't expect a fresh 50 in greens to get in your raid (ops) group so stop crying about it.

 

So let me see if I get this right... PvPers are the ultimate MMO gamer. (I am not disagreeing) I am just not following the logic that a PvP Uber Stat is an entitlement because you PvP all night for a few weeks.

 

Honesty its a Gate Keeper stat that is ALL... and as such I hate it completely. No I don't suck at PvP no I don't PvE all night instead. I PvP I have gear... I will complete my set... I DON"T need the handicap.

 

This is like going golfing with Tiger Woods and then spotting him a nice handicap advantage too boot.

 

I mean really its the exact same thing... if Everyone who defends this stat is as good as they claim... and are the Tiger Woods too other players Joe Smoe. Why exactly do they need to be spotted points?

 

Yes we don't want Raid gear too take over PvP.... NO we don't need a handicap to let us beat up on the Joe Smoe Weekend Warriors...

 

I say remove the stat from the PvP gear... ADD it too the Raid Gear (and drop the raid gear stats to equal the Top end PvP gear).... and then Make Expertise effect PVE not PvP... problem solved. If Mr. Weekend Warrior want's too que up and compete in his EQUAL PvE gear let em... they are still going to get smacked around.... unless of course the people defending the badly designed stat aren't as good as they claim. lol

[Antipiety]

Seems like alot of QQ either they put in pvp gear with a pro pvp STAT or you scrubs crying are just gonna get rolled by Dragon killers in better gear.

 

If you want to play a game where gear means nothing then go play an FPS a MOBA or Guild Wars and G.T.F.O.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Antipiety

[GtsVash]

Expertise, resilience, and all other stats like that need to be in a game that has PvP and PvE content.

 

Why?

 

To stop PvE players from absolutely stomping in warzones. If you ever played vanilla WoW you might remember T3 warriors, PoM pyro mages for some big examples of how people with top end PvE gear decimated everyone in their path.

[Freewareplayer]

99 % of the people that want expertise removed argue with the most stupid argument i ever heard in an MMO.

 

 

Argument that most people seem to use:

They got no skill, they just farmed their expertise and therefore hes stronger than me.

 

So your argument is he spend more time so he has a better charecter?Following that logic the Maximum Level in an MMORPG should be One. 1. Uno. Fkin ONE. Cause the other guys got no skill and just nolifed to 50.

Same Argument, mighty fkin stupid.

 

If someone elsed leveled/farmed more than you, you catch up and dont whine. And you will catch up because there is a cap for everything, like level, or Battlemaster gear.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Freewareplayer

[halfhourofpower]

There should be NO special stat for 50 pvp, it makes no sense. In every old pvp mmo that's ever came out they didn't need special stats, it was about your build, and skill. That's enough, only bad's require special stats that put them at an extreme advantage. Nobody else does.

 

Trion made a GIANT MISTAKE with Valor, and they admit it! They tried to remove it, then they tried to add it to PVE gear, then they decided 'screw it' and tossed the same valor on ALL pvp gear! Essentially they realize any special stat people can 'grind out' in PVP places a tremendous imbalance into the game that isn't easily fixed.

 

I foresee a huge problem with the 50's bracket when new 50's enter it and become 'food' for people that have high expertise they got from GRINDING LOW LEVELS, while the new 50's won't have this luxury. They will be slaughtered. Therefore, choose your solution;

 

1) Expertise needs to be removed.

2) Expertise needs to be added to lower level pvp gear.

3) Entry-Level 50's PVP gear needs to be added that has expertise, and is purchasable with Warzone Coms prior to reaching 50.

 

Take your pick, one of the three has to happen or the noob farming won't stop with the 50's bracket. If someone needs their own special stat to compete in pvp then they can just give up pvping. There is little logic in these 'special' stats, and they only serve to cause more imbalances.

 

So the reason we have expertise is so that raiders can't just decide to pvp on a whim and dominate. Without expertise raiders would -dominate- everybody easily. The other side of the coin is people could farm high level pvp gear with good stats and then trivialize operation fights. The idea is to build up gear slowly in whichever route you decide to go.

[MandoArc]

Yes plzz take it out and let us gear up base on what we like to do if i like to pvp let me get gear from it and if i like to pve let me get gear from it put dont you ever tell me well you cant pve cuz you have PVP GEAR or you cant pvp cuz you have PVE GEAR how about

 

a new set of gear ONE I WILL LIKE TO CALL

 

GEAR YOU KNOW GEAR

 

NOT PVP GEAR NOT PVE GEAR

 

 

GEAR ONE MORE TIME

 

GEAR

 

all this 2 sets bs is from wow

 

I wish to god that this game had a swg gear system where gear is GEAR

[malevs]

As a raider please remove expertise, so I can faceroll people even harder in full raid gear, lol.

 

It will be vanilla WoW all over again!

[MandoArc]

As a raider please remove expertise, so I can faceroll people even harder in full raid gear, lol.

 

It will be vanilla WoW all over again!

 

The point is to make pvp gear the same level us raider gear so no little men there will be no faceroll you will; have to be good you know hiting something the think something the HAVE A BRAIN

[Kelticfury]

@OP and others whining about expertise.

 

its pvp. you are going to die, man up and work for your bonuses like everyone else.

I bet most of these people crying about expertise are just bad at pvp anyways so they should be glad they have something like expertise to blame it on.

[Amythiel]

There will be no need for expertise on <50 gear once 1.1 rolls in. As for level 50 gear they simply need to introduce entry level PvP gear (the gear they removed LOL). 20% damage difference is pretty huge. Edited January 16, 2012 by Amythiel

[malevs]

The point is to make pvp gear the same level us raider gear so no little men there will be no faceroll you will; have to be good you know hiting something the think something the HAVE A BRAIN

 

Yes lets add good gear you can lose your way into

 

weeeeee

[Coinkee]

They just don't realize that the whole mess that people find themselves in now (50s with pvp gear in the same bracket as lvl 10s with 2 skill moves) is temporary.

 

The 50 bracket is coming in. Expertise in NO way will affect the 1-49 bracket at that point.

 

They don't realize that it is next to impossible to create new content around 1 set of gear if it is used for both linear progressions (pve/pvp)

 

They are scared (or just whining) that people that play more will have better gear (Hello? This is an MMO, Deal with it) or that fresh lvl 50s (or alts) will be pounded into the ground and demoralized upon hitting 50 and stepping foot into the 50 bracket for the first time. Welcome to the Big Boys Club, Here's your *** neatly packaged. As it should be UNLESS the fresh 50 is skilled and the geared 50 just sucks.

 

They don't realize that the rated warzones (coming soon) will detract the fully geared people into ratings ones instead of sitting in the open 50 bracket farming them when they already have gear. Sure there will be geared groups or geared ppl in the reg warzones but not nearly as many when it becomes pointless. atm it's all people got to play.

 

They are calling people that currently have gear unskilled or needing a crutch to win. Because that's really the only thing that will make them feel better.

 

They don't realize that you can get BOTH sets of gear once the initial push to 50 and starter gear is gotten. It's just the beginning that sucks. It always does.

 

Is there griefing now? Sure is.

Is it in a bad state ATM? Sure is.

Will most of that be fixed with the lvl 50 bracket. You bet. (excluding lvl 50s on tatooine beating up lvl 20s for the heck of it)

Will the masses of fresh 50s die to the masses of geared people? Indeed

Will the fresh 50s, once geared, beat new fresh 50s? Obviously

Can a premade of fresh 50s beat a pug of geared people? Yes, they can.

 

Such is the way of the MMO. Deal with it.

[Knockerz]

I don't really care about expertise, but I would like for BW to add mods with expertise. Thus, I can use some orange gear and not be force into the same style of gear for pvp as every one else. That's my only complain with expertise. Edited January 16, 2012 by Knockerz

[Vincedaddy]

gear advantages are for people that have no skill and have to compensate. Gear with expertise can be farmed by terrible players, so it brings nothing good to the table. IMO.

 

I don't know how they did things over in WoW but people that like this division and have sense of entitlement due to mindless grinding is weak and will only hinder you abilites to play.

 

You should get better by learning to play, not by just standing around in warzones collecting valor.

 

Someone could easily say the same thing about durps being carried in raid groups it's a double sided coin with each having something to say about the other. Only issue with gear are the ones created by the player..

[Vincedaddy]

There will be no need for expertise on <50 gear once 1.1 rolls in. As for level 50 gear they simply need to introduce entry level PvP gear (the gear they removed LOL). 20% damage difference is pretty huge.

 

Lol as if there weren't all ready enough welfare epics in the game