Stigas Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Balance full geared and max level then. Same difference. Marauder will get absolutely manhandled every time unless they have a significant gear or skill advantage. But some WoW guy can hit 3 level 30s for 6k in one hit, so we're obviously g2g amirite? Nobody really knows if we're "g2g". There's no combat logs or anything, just buggy FlyText and terribly inaccurate tooltips. When we can parse our data, and when there aren't level 13's PvP'ing with 50's we can take these types of comments as something other than anecdotal evidence. For every "we're broken" thread, I can find a livestream or youtube video of someone wrecking house. And for what it's worth, I don't think it was an accident that there are no combat logs. It gives everyone a chance to roll the character they ENJOY, instead of the one reported to do the most damage. Edited January 15, 2012 by Stigas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilrota Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Hello all, We have removed a fair number of posts from this thread and would like to remind everyone of the rules of conduct in this forum. No insults, name calling, or personal attacks Please stay on topic. Please express your opinion and thoughts in a constructive, respectful manner. If someone violates the Rules of Conduct, please flag it instead of replying to it. Keep in mind that everyone has different viewpoints. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please use the Flag function to report their post. Continued rude, insulting and non-constructive posts will result in this thread being closed. Please ensure your discussions are respectful, constructive and on topic. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Hello all, We have removed a fair number of posts from this thread and would like to remind everyone of the rules of conduct in this forum. No insults, name calling, or personal attacks Please stay on topic. Please express your opinion and thoughts in a constructive, respectful manner. If someone violates the Rules of Conduct, please flag it instead of replying to it. Keep in mind that everyone has different viewpoints. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please use the Flag function to report their post. Continued rude, insulting and non-constructive posts will result in this thread being closed. Please ensure your discussions are respectful, constructive and on topic. Thank you. ^ Nisa Thrash noob. /facepalm yeah ok delete my posts i wasn't 'trolling' or insulting him mara is a powerful class. to say that it sucks i have to assume he's playing wrong Edited January 15, 2012 by Nisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klindalol Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 hmmm so my video which is the one that he was talking about in this thread was when i was a rage marauder and it was form the first wee being 50. Once marauders get geared it levels out a lot. You did 450k damage as a marauder in a Voidstar, Meh pretty average. As annihilation as a marauder ive done 710k in a voidstar. Marauders are fine get over it. Its the players not the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 You call it useless complexity i call it separting the good players from the bad. That's why i love my Marauder I can outdps baddies that are better geared than me and i also bring more ultility by knowing when to use my CDs. I'm no "expert" but i had my fair share of experience on other games and in SWTOR with almost a year of Closed Beta. Marauders are FINE. and how did u measure ur dps o.O??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spne Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 and how did u measure ur dps o.O??? In Warzones you can see your total damage, healing, objectives and so on. When you are do more damage, kills, healing and objectives that many geared Marauders you know there is nothing wrong with the class, it's just the players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holydok Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 off topic: the OP is coming off as the biggest egotistical ***** ive ever seen. on topic: i feel like its not that we suck as ourselves but we suck COMPARED to other classes. our classes are fine when you break everything down. good dmg. highly versatile (camo and charge). okay survivability. but compared to other classes... we are gimped like no other. sorc: force lightningx1000 and the second you get close, you get knocked back just so you can get lightninged again. bounty hunter: come on... tracer missile with heavy armor and heals. ops: need i say more? etc. (too tired to list all of em) moving on... PVPing as mara reminds me of ping pong. im getting knocked back constantly by everyone. if i charge a guy that is above me, all i can do is position myself so that i wont get knocked off. either that or make our resolve build faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezenith Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) @Klinda lol I'm not even showing off my damage, fact is marauder has issues. No matter how much you deal, btw I'm not on a pre-release server so there's only 1 or 2 battlemasters and not many with even full champion gear, so gg with your ego at 710k damage which in case you feel egoistic about it and that it makes you 'superior' because you're decked in battlemaster http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9047/editedu.png Just champion gear and good biochem usage, rage not annihilation. I do more as rage, annihilation is survivability. Oh wait, doesn't jugg rage does even more damage + heavy armor + force push etc.? Hmm. Yep marauder is a fantastically powerful class. Honestly can you say this with sincerity, 'Marauders is one of the most powerful classes'. Burst lacking to assassin/operative. CC lacking to any average class we basically have nothing at all. Tank, can't do it. Heals can't do it. So, hmm sustained dps / aoe is what we are for? Or? Hmm. @holydok no, I'm tired of marauder who suck saying that marauder is perfectly fine and powerful compared to other classes. We're average material, we do not 'shine' in any of the departments ^ dealing damage on scoreboard is nothing. So a level 45 marauder decides to come to the forum and finally deals 220k damage scoreboard and go 'damn rage marauder is so powerful, they're great, marauders are BEASST!!!11!!'. Guess what? They can have their 'new player / newb' opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that they are inexperienced in terms of end game with biochem consumables and expertise geared when COMPARED to other classes. And they bring nothing to the table as stated, so they do not even have to bother posting in this thread as I'm not interested in reading newb opinions. Edited January 15, 2012 by Rezenith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torkepl Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Im very happy for Your 450k outposter. Heres 800k from powertech. http://imageupload.org/?d=3C3EBAEC1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezenith Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 ^ In case you didn't read, this is a rebuttal to those who say 'marauders are beast / powerful / nothing need to be changed / don't buff us or we're OVERPOWERED' <- lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torkepl Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 ^ In case you didn't read, this is a rebuttal to those who say 'marauders are beast / powerful / nothing need to be changed / don't buff us or we're OVERPOWERED' <- lol. When someone mention Klinda and his pvp video i just abort thread without reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrolleunHunter Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Oh marauder needs a buff, and how and when this is going to happen only time will tell. Carnage could use some major love, and Rage is so gimmicky it's become to easy to read when a heavy smash is coming, and annihilation lacks the omph to knock someone silly. I don't think the class is broken by any means, but when compared to other classes Warriors and Knights are the lowest on the food chain. If Bioware doesn't address damage as the fix then utility, mobility, and survivability needs another pass. I am not a fan of two rage mechanics, back loaded damage, and cd ridden abilities. Why players think and advocate Ravage is fine is merely one example of the more glaring issues for Warriors and Knights in general. Especially when server synching is an issue, ability bugs, and lag that slaps a player in the face when latency isn't an issue, frame rates are fine, but everything still goes to hell because the server and client need to catch up. Bottom line, everyone is doing the same damage no matter if their range or melee. Like I previously stated, I by no means think the class is weak, but Warriors and Knights in general are sub-par when compared to the over all state of PVP in it's current implementation. If a marauder does not fixate on getting medals his commendation in take can, and probably will suffer, if he or she plays an objective base game. Can Marauders obtain 8 too 10 medals a WZ? Yes. Do they need to use biochem, champion or battlemaster gear, and know how to play a piano? Yes. Though if the player can't reach 75k damage at level 50 even in crap blues then they probably will always have issues with the class. Edited January 15, 2012 by BrolleunHunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehn_Freemark Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I don't think the class is broken by any means, but when compared to other classes Warriors and Knights are the lowest on the food chain. Well said, as sentinel I agree. I would encourage everyone to please stop referring to videos and scoreboards that are always, and I mean always the result of champion/battlemaster gear vs low levels/undergeared 50s. The problem is not strictly how much damage you do (tho it certainly is a good indicator, but not when a handful of overgeared players show off their numbers against lesser enemies), it's how the class plays. The truth of the matter is that sentinel/mara is pretty decent in hypotethical 1v1 situations, but there simply is no 1v1 situation in warzones except a very very negligible number of circumstances. Voidstar is a zergfest at the doors. Civil war is usually small groups or big fights, with the occasional 1v1 at the weak turret, but honestly when you arrive/the enemy arrives and you engage, reinforcements on either side are about 15 seconds away, unless one of the teams is made up by a bunch of morons. Huttball grants possibility of proper "duel" fights, provided you don't give a **** about scoring and just go around picking up stragglers. In this situation, the point is very simple: unless there's a healer or someone capping, you, as basically the only melee* class, WILL be focused fire to death by 30yards commando obscene nuclear strikes, force lightnings, snipes, and i'm not even going to mention the absurdity of knockbacks, stuns etc that you eat when you humbly try to close the distance on a target to deal some damage. *(Yes, there's shadow/assassin, but being able to stealth they won't attract the same attention you do.) The bottom line is, because of how much and how easy it is for ranged classes to deal damage and control the battlefield, right now the pvp in this game IS a game for ranged players. So unless we all have to reroll to become a little competitive (and once again I repeat I'm not talking about sheer damage numbers, but instead of being useful and playable in warzones in general), we need to have something that can keep us to par and balance out our disadvantage for being melee, and melee who can't help but draw a lot of attention on ourselves. I might accept to be a standard glass cannon like so many others in other mmos, tho that would be very unsatisfying and repetitive, but if that is the idea I feel atm we have the glass but lack the cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadinaxx Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c233/Shadinaxx/swtor2012-01-1300-46-20-89.jpg ^^ carnage spec, I didn't get very high because of having to chase down targets that root an kite. I agree that rage is a pure pvp spec that dishes out some insane dmg, but I bet, and have utter confidence, that if Klinda applied his skill and equal gearing to a Rage Jugg, he'd prolly come close to doubling his dmg. I frequently get in the top 5 for medals and dmg, but most of the time, it's a jugg that does me in, they are able to control their targets (unchanneled force shoke, knockback, and a stun that isn't broken by dmg), WITH the survivability to deliver. Now, lemme clarify their survivability, because yes, we have awesome "oh s***" buttons, but we cant activate them while stunned, the ability delay pwns are face, etc. Juggs have passive survivability that is associated with heavy armor and their AC build up. Before you ask me to roll a jugg, I wont, I will stay with the marauder through it's infancy and struggles, because I provide feedback to bring this class up to par with the rest, and I LIKE the marauder. Think we can all agree that our biggest problem is ability delay, my force camo wont activate when I NEED it to, I've tried mouseclicks, keybinds, and I even set it to my "1" key, all the same results. Similer with Predation, undying rage, cloak of agony and saber ward, however cloak tends to work a tad quicker than the rest. I've spoken with our brethren on republic side, and seems sentinals are experiancing slightly similer ability delay, but it's only about .25-.5 sec, to our 3-6 second delay. Before I see us get a knock back or a "true cc" I'd wanna see how we do without the ability delay, which is how it sounds like the dev's are going with the upcoming patch notes and not giving marauders any "love". Granted, we still have issues in PvE content, I'm not dealing the amount of dmg I should be with the gear I have, in comparison to similerly geared ranged classes, even on "tank and spank" bosses that require little to no movement. I feel this could be fixed by giving a slight buff to our weapon's base dmg, they are currently the lowest of all the base weapon damages (go compare 136 rating lightsabers base dmg to a 136 rating gun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I can't speak for sentinel or marauders, but i have a guardian is virtually the same as a juggernault and the rage/focus spec is not all that, since each fight ends me with 50% health when facing a strong and a few normals and when facing an elite, my companion dies and i nearly die. Its not due to my lack of skill, even bioware have admitted that the core classes Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior do indeed have survivability issues that cause them to not scale as the other classes do. I am currently in the process of leveling a sentinel and going the bleeding spec, it reminds me alot of how the feral druid played, as in, it did its dps via bleeds and i honestly look forward to bioware fixing those survivability issues that cause us jedi and sith trouble to do things that troopers, smugglers, Imperials and bounty hunters can do with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadinaxx Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 The bottom line is, because of how much and how easy it is for ranged classes to deal damage and control the battlefield, right now the pvp in this game IS a game for ranged players. So unless we all have to reroll to become a little competitive (and once again I repeat I'm not talking about sheer damage numbers, but instead of being useful and playable in warzones in general), we need to have something that can keep us to par and balance out our disadvantage for being melee, and melee who can't help but draw a lot of attention on ourselves. I might accept to be a standard glass cannon like so many others in other mmos, tho that would be very unsatisfying and repetitive, but if that is the idea I feel atm we have the glass but lack the cannon. Smuggler's and operatives are also melee heavy, but the sheer number of stuns and front end burst they have is their benefit, plus the good ones blow their cd's, then vanish. I'd like to see the mara/sent be able to burst like that, or even have another 30 rage popper that makes us un-CC-able for 7 seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehn_Freemark Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Think we can all agree that our biggest problem is ability delay yeah... not really. You do realize all classes suffer from it, don't you? If that was our biggest problem, we'd probably be the best class in the entire game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadinaxx Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 yeah... not really. You do realize all classes suffer from it, don't you? If that was our biggest problem, we'd probably be the best class in the entire game. Yet other people I speak to also agree that they have ability delay as well, just not the 3-6 seconds marauders are complaining about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draexnael Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Yes our class is fine because we post big numbers with 2 pocket healers /facepalm. Sadly my server is full of good players, the highest in WZ's is usually 300-400k no-one gets over that and I'm rank 50 Valor and PVP'd a lot. The class needs changes/tweaks I love the fact combat animation causes 2 of our biggest abilities to fail and still haven't been fixed. Combine that with the fact I've recieved 9 duplicate Champion items so far and seen players in my guild at sub-rank 10 Valor getting legs/chest/helm in 3 drops its certainly getting harder to warrant paying to play the game as its a glorified beta. p.s. I rolled a Sorcerer and its Level 12 - the difference in ease of play is just staggering I find it very sad the incompetence of the developers that they let this game go live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docetic Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I'm really trying to understand whyt people are trying so hard to reject the fact that marauders have serious issues and use the word 'fine' to describe their class? It should be awesome like every other class. Not fine. Fine is boring and it translates to not completely useless, not completely broken and most of all 'no i didn't waste my time for 50 levels'. Alternatively, you could be supportive on the issues so your class gets fixed instead of defending an obviously ~broken is quite harsh~ well a class with issues to be corrected. You aren't a bioware employee. We are discussing fine tuning in a new game in most threads and buggy skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getdownsb Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Nobody really knows if we're "g2g". There's no combat logs or anything, just buggy FlyText and terribly inaccurate tooltips. When we can parse our data, and when there aren't level 13's PvP'ing with 50's we can take these types of comments as something other than anecdotal evidence. For every "we're broken" thread, I can find a livestream or youtube video of someone wrecking house. And for what it's worth, I don't think it was an accident that there are no combat logs. It gives everyone a chance to roll the character they ENJOY, instead of the one reported to do the most damage. I've seen all of the popular ones. The youtube videos edit out the times they get facerolled by people that are at the same or better level of skill/gear. Stmp's stream is full of him wrecking shop... with bull BM gear vs mostly sub 50 pugs. When he does encounter the random 50 that is also in BM gear he can't do anything to them until it becomes 2+v1. Marauder has problems, and it can't not compete with any of the other classes when gear and skill level is equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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