Fenwich Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Oh wait, they don't. http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9967/screenshot2012011317354.jpg These coming buffs are gonna make PvP hilariously easy. So what's your biggest hit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neocoma Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Who cares about fully drugged sweep crits anyway? It is bad gameplay by design from my pov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FtenEQ Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Oh wait, they don't. http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9967/screenshot2012011317354.jpg These coming buffs are gonna make PvP hilariously easy. So what's your biggest hit? So you can take 12 seconds and stack up a bunch of debuffs, chain stack consumables and then pull of a C-C-Combo involving force leap/zealous leap and an auto-crit force sweep for 8k damage? Grats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenwich Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 So you can take 12 seconds and stack up a bunch of debuffs, chain stack consumables and then pull of a C-C-Combo involving force leap/zealous leap and an auto-crit force sweep for 8k damage? Grats? Why thank you. Just proving that guardians are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorc Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 can i has your spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenwich Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 can i has your spec? 3/6/31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiqui Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Don't hate on his playstyle. If he wants to sweep bomb let him. Mines no where near that though, granted I haven't been really gear. Maybe 4kish? On Dispatch. 14/27/0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorc Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 3/6/31 the other focus trees ive seen are all 6/3/32 what do u do different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaManoNera Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Vigilance will be able to get DPS like that once (if) BW fixes the terrible delay and stuttering of skill animations. That is seriously the biggest thing holding back Guardian effectiveness in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FtenEQ Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Why thank you. Just proving that guardians are fine. Fine is one thing I am on board with. OP(which if you look around the forums is starting to pop up more and more) I will fight to the death until the forums explode or I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenwich Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 the other focus trees ive seen are all 6/3/32 what do u do different? I don't get the free freezing force, and I instead get +4% shii-cho damage and +6% strength. I also pvp in shii-cho since the only real benefit to soresu is guard (which is great) and 6% all dmg reduction (which is ok). I prefer to be DPS in PVP though. Even with saber ward only i'm fairly tanky. Also, I use the spec to DPS in PVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FtenEQ Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) See fen, my post was predicated on thinking you were saying we are OP. My bad. Yes Guards are fine and unfortunately the forums are already a-stir with the crying of how OP we are. >.< Edited January 14, 2012 by FtenEQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorc Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 So then its 3/7/31? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenwich Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 So then its 3/7/31? Yeah sorry, 3/7/31 not 3/6/31 i knew i lost a skill point somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ixigan Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Here's the problem with Guards - It's not that they're UP. It's that they're poorly designed. Our, arguably, best skill tree is the SHARED tree. Which means our other two AC SPECIFIC trees have relatively little value. On top of this, our BEST tree is ENTIRELY dependent on ONE skill. We're not trying to combo anything, we're really just trying to dance around long enough to get 4 stacks of singularity. Then we can try our uber burst...which isn't even that uber. An operative/scoundrel can burst down a target from 100-0 with four attacks - to draw a comparison off another stim-doping burst class. The fact that we have our two specific skill trees just completely over shadowed by our shared tree indicates a weakness in the way the class is designed. Couple this with the fact that a VERY small percentage of JK players can actually handle the class well and you have all the proof you need. I have been able to pull off close to 300k damage as a focus Guard, BUT I very rarely see any other Focus Guards doing even remotely close to the same amount of damage. Another massive problem with Focus is that JKs are supposed to be masters of fighting with a lightsaber.....but Focus makes us basically gimped casters. TL:DR It's poor design to design a class that isn't viable across all three of their particular talent/skill tree. It's also poor design when the -majority- of players can't make a class perform at at least 90% of its maximum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenwich Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Here's the problem with Guards - It's not that they're UP. It's that they're poorly designed. Our, arguably, best skill tree is the SHARED tree. Which means our other two AC SPECIFIC trees have relatively little value. On top of this, our BEST tree is ENTIRELY dependent on ONE skill. We're not trying to combo anything, we're really just trying to dance around long enough to get 4 stacks of singularity. Then we can try our uber burst...which isn't even that uber. An operative/scoundrel can burst down a target from 100-0 with four attacks - to draw a comparison off another stim-doping burst class. The fact that we have our two specific skill trees just completely over shadowed by our shared tree indicates a weakness in the way the class is designed. Couple this with the fact that a VERY small percentage of JK players can actually handle the class well and you have all the proof you need. I have been able to pull off close to 300k damage as a focus Guard, BUT I very rarely see any other Focus Guards doing even remotely close to the same amount of damage. Another massive problem with Focus is that JKs are supposed to be masters of fighting with a lightsaber.....but Focus makes us basically gimped casters. TL:DR It's poor design to design a class that isn't viable across all three of their particular talent/skill tree. It's also poor design when the -majority- of players can't make a class perform at at least 90% of its maximum. In response to you saying that our burst isn't that uber... it actually is. I rarely see any other class pull over a 5k single hit, much less an AOE 5k single hit. I pull 5k without expertise buffs ALL THE TIME. Yeah, great, ops can burst 15k hp in 4 hits but again.. that's 4 hits. I can burst half that in 1. Do I wish the other trees were better? Sure. But to say the class on a whole is bad is misinformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Oh wait, they don't. http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9967/screenshot2012011317354.jpg These coming buffs are gonna make PvP hilariously easy. So what's your biggest hit? Proves nothing once again, I really wish people would stop posting these screendumps of Stimmed up more than Keith Richards on a Saturday Night session nonsensical falsities. What will you do when Bioware take away those toys from PvP leaving you with only the expertise stim, your gear, the pvp damage buff, your trinket and pvp hp stims? And trust me, with the amount of damage that Biochem is doing to PVP, it's inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FtenEQ Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Honestly fen, the only thing this picture has done is give people ammo to shoot at us at. In my experience in gaming communities where loud forumgoers are involved, you want to stay as quiet as possible in regards to your awesomeness. My old feral druid cries about this. Here's the mantra: "Guardians are fine." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsarii Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) In response to you saying that our burst isn't that uber... it actually is. I rarely see any other class pull over a 5k single hit, much less an AOE 5k single hit. I pull 5k without expertise buffs ALL THE TIME. Yeah, great, ops can burst 15k hp in 4 hits but again.. that's 4 hits. I can burst half that in 1. Do I wish the other trees were better? Sure. But to say the class on a whole is bad is misinformed. First of all - I think Guardians are fine, and that the guy you quoted is wrong on a few points. But you're wrong. Our burst is not that uber. Many, many classes pull over 5k hits, and most are capable of surpassing our single target burst hugely. Our strengths are in that we can control it (and the only reason our WZ damage can be high is because it's AoE). Operatives can 100-0 in 4 hits, as has been said. Mercenaries can literally spam one button that does the same damage (but single target) as Sweep does after our entire combo, and in worse gear than us. Powertech's can do damage almost the same as the operatives by going up the shared tree (admittedly after they do that they're pretty much out of ammo though, so it's way more balanced). edit: I totally forgot about what GS/S can do. They're up there too. Edited January 14, 2012 by lsarii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwnzie Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 We're not trying to combo anything, we're really just trying to dance around long enough to get 4 stacks of singularity. That. Any competent player will stomp you hard while you take your time. It is so bad game play, it is such garbage. That's what Guardians are reduced to. And we're fine? I laugh at you OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenwich Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 That. Any competent player will stomp you hard while you take your time. It is so bad game play, it is such garbage. That's what Guardians are reduced to. And we're fine? I laugh at you OP. Really? Guardians are a tank class. The one thing we have when killing another player IS time. Saber ward is a great tool to give you time. And it's not like you're not hitting any other abilities.. 2500 crit blade storm, master strike, put up a sunder, whatever, are all tools you use. I've gone up against competent players. If you think that you should have an easy time killing a mage, you're wrong. Warriors in Wow were weak to kiting from mages, why should it be different in TOR? But.. if you ever manage to get in that mages face, he's dead. I'm not seeing anything different in this game. Operatives 4 hit squishies, not you. They hurt you, but then you get up and 3 hit them back. I've gone up against competent operatives as well. In fact, the ONLY problem with this build is that force sweep can whiff due to people ghosting around or ability delay. But that's not the builds problem. I can't believe you consider it to be bad game play. What's good game play to you? Faceroll tracer missile spam? Force lightning spam? Our abilities are way more interesting and engaging than that. Also of course, in group pvp, with a healer backing you up, you're practically invincible. Which is what this game's all about (note, i was solo queued in that SS, didn't have a pocket healer). Lastly, to address the comments about how all 3 builds should be viable in pvp.. keep in mind that this is DESIGNED to be the pvp tree. Were WoW protection warriors good in pvp? No. Were fire mages? No, just the 3 minute mage for a time, but mostly ice reigned supreme. There will always be a best pvp spec. Should the others be usable in pvp? Sure, that'd be great. Is it a requirement? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annerlon Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 TS learn guardian mechanic - so huge crit only under adrenal (cooldown 3 minuts afaik) and relic (2 minuts cd) and good pvp armor also AND only once in 24 seconds guardian can make this huge crit - and it is much less without adrenal and relic, and after this huge -all other your damage are full crap and can not be even close compared with operative. Also - yes this is class with POSSIBILITY to do tanking in pvp or pve - you must be in fcking soresu form to use guard. As other classes can be healers or dps, and if they want be dps - they are much more powerfull and effective than guardian in his loldps. Those ppl who said that guardian is fine just miss one point - in dps mode you are "one ability" class and this abillity NOT on short cd. So while this ability on cd, you are muuuuch muuuuch worse than other dps classes. p.s. and just wonder - Are "burning purpose" and "burning blade" in vigiliance tree so dumb designed or they just bugged and not affected by strenght, power etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugeneration Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Were WoW protection warriors good in pvp? No. Yes they were. If you don't remember them before the Armor Pen/Shield Slam/Trinket/Reckless Burst nerf that's your fault, but they were. I could get 36k+ crits and I seen screenshots of others managing 44k+ Edited January 14, 2012 by Nugeneration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwnzie Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Really? Guardians are a tank class. GUARDIANS ARE NOT A TANK CLASS! THEY MERELY HAVE A SUPPOSEDLY TANK TREE WHICH BTW IS UTTER *****! Saber Ward? A friggin 3 minutes cd for 12 secs? Sure, mine is always on bloody cd, you know thats what happens with 3 minutes cd abilities! It's even more sporadic than relying on pulling off a bloody Force Sweep! 2k damage Blade Storm should be good damage for you? What kind fo scrubs do you play with? Any class will blast your puny 2k out the window and without any cd and having a truck full of ranged control that our class utterly lacks. Oh jesus, I stopped reading there. edit: and anyway, I have nothing against you, I just completely dont agree the class is fine and the changes with patch 1.1 dont fix anything AT ALL which makes me even more angry Edited January 14, 2012 by Pwnzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakks Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Oh wait, they don't. http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9967/screenshot2012011317354.jpg These coming buffs are gonna make PvP hilariously easy. So what's your biggest hit? Kellhus > Fenwich http://i.imgur.com/mMJf5.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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