Vanguard Tank Spec seems Unbalanced ( weak )

[iraqcombatvet]

I have an awesome Tank Spec build for my Trooper Vanguard. I am level 48 almost 49. As of right now I am very frustrated with how fast my toon gets killed in PVP. Even though I have all specs chosen for tanking in the skill tree. I also have good armor, not the best though. I use all my abilities at the right time, but it still seems like elemental attacks eat me alive. Many times, I have been killed by a one shot of elemental.

 

Its also funny that a level 14-25 has such a good chance at draining my life. I don't get it. I am easy pickings for everyone even though I am a solid tank.

 

I don't get it. But I am here to see if you other ( brothers in arms ) have the same issue. I dont care about DPS. I want to protect other players and live awhile to do so. Leave some of your feedback if you can and I might try it out. I don't have time to post my build on here. Sorry.

 

If the tank tree is in reality under-built or under-performing for others, maybe Bioware will look into it and give us a fix.

 

Oraffok

[origional]

PVP has reached a stage where if your not in PVP specced armour your going to get your butt handed to you fast, especially when you are outnumbered. Its another failure by Bioware to balance out PVP. You should see what a mess they made of PVP in warhammer, which was pretty balanced until bioware got its hands on it and unblanaced it with new pvp armour and stats.

 

For the moment you'll have to level up through the PVP levels and aquire pvp equipment if you want to be competative in pvp.

 

I doubt bioware will ever improve things, they've only ever made it worse elsewhere, so enjoy it while its only slightly rubbish.

[Syas]

PVP has reached a stage where if your not in PVP specced armour your going to get your butt handed to you fast, especially when you are outnumbered. Its another failure by Bioware to balance out PVP. You should see what a mess they made of PVP in warhammer, which was pretty balanced until bioware got its hands on it and unblanaced it with new pvp armour and stats.

 

For the moment you'll have to level up through the PVP levels and aquire pvp equipment if you want to be competative in pvp.

 

I doubt bioware will ever improve things, they've only ever made it worse elsewhere, so enjoy it while its only slightly rubbish.

 

"I doubt bioware will ever improve things..."

 

They are improving it in the FIRST content patch.

 

OP - the reason you are getting smoked in PVP is because you don't have Expertise gear (which is level 50 PVP gear). In patch 1.1 level 50 players will be in their own bracket so if you are not 50, you won't have to deal with Expertise geared players destroying you.

[origional]

yeah i'll believe that when its in place and has been tested. Experience says they constantly make things worse with their tinkering.

[iraqcombatvet]

Well, I do think the 50 brackets will make things a whole lot better for everyone. The special gear for level 50's makes it merely impossible to beat them. Even if your level 49 vs 50. Insane.

 

 

And yes....I just got my *** kicked yet again on PVP.

 

Hutball, hutball, hutball......getting so tired of hutball.

[Syas]

yeah i'll believe that when its in place and has been tested. Experience says they constantly make things worse with their tinkering.

 

All that super indepth 3 week experience, huh?

[SpotlessMind]

These people telling you wait till you get your expertise gear don't know what they are talking about. I am in Champion gear and if I face a DPS class or a Sorcerer with equal gear, I go down fast. Oh, and if you meet an Operative forget about it, they chew through us like we are mages.

 

The problem with tanking in pvp is BW's damage mitigation system. It is all split into so many different type and also there are damages that can't be mitigated.

 

My question is if Vanguards can't tank in PvP then what are we good for in PvP? Guard isn't that great because healing is better. I rather roll a sage and do 300k damage/300k heal rather then guard for much less.

[Dooger]

Just think Vanguards are much better than guardians, it could be worse.

[Morrismonster]

One simple change to increase the viability of all tank specced classes in PVP is to make shields proc on more damage types than just weapon damage.

[Aaoogaa]

"I doubt bioware will ever improve things..."

 

They are improving it in the FIRST content patch.

 

OP - the reason you are getting smoked in PVP is because you don't have Expertise gear (which is level 50 PVP gear). In patch 1.1 level 50 players will be in their own bracket so if you are not 50, you won't have to deal with Expertise geared players destroying you.

 

Until you hit 50 and are in the same boat having to grind gear vs. players that are in full expertise gear. The first content patch won't fix this it will just push the pain back a few levels. Warhammer PVP was best in the lower brackets just as PVP in this game will be because of the lack of pvp expertise gear. I am glad I have most of my set already...and it really isn't that hard to earn and will soon be easier (I beleive they are removing the stupid random bags and giving a token to get what you want). Still all this would not be needed if they didn't have pvp gear and made the game more difficult overall.

[Aaoogaa]

Op if you are storming into the main melee you are asking to be focused. You should be sitting on the outskirts throwing taunts and DPSing from range until you see a below 50% enemy then you storm in drop your spike damage on him and chain stun him to death...then storm back out to a ranged healer..dps where your interrupts are more effective. You do not want to be at melee range until you know you are going to kill someone. If melee come after you then kite and AE stun taunt etc. Do everything you can to have them kite you doing no or low damage. If you put guard on a healer they are going to make sure you stay alive over anyone else as long as you are in guard range. If you are fighting in the melee furball and not actually doing anything for them you are no longer priority. You are not there to DPS you are there to lower the damage done by the other team, shut down casters/healers, and keep your healers up. If you are getting focused down then you are overextended. You should be pulling ranged classes to your melee not jumping into their melee. Edited January 14, 2012 by Aaoogaa

[DuriZap]

Click this link, read the OP, and you will understand why you get molested so easily in PvP.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

[sanctified]

Click this link, read the OP, and you will understand why you get molested so easily in PvP.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

Awww, I wanted to link it.

 

Basically, in case you don't want to read it or watch the video it comes down to this: You aren't shielding the damage from special attacks delivered by other players. You shield against NPC's just fine, but you don't shield against other players (yellow damage) at all. All your defensive stats mean ZILCH because they don't reduce your damage in pvp.

 

Until they fix this, tanks are a free kill.

Edited January 14, 2012 by sanctified

[ScootyPuffSenior]

Until you hit 50 and are in the same boat having to grind gear vs. players that are in full expertise gear. The first content patch won't fix this it will just push the pain back a few levels. Warhammer PVP was best in the lower brackets just as PVP in this game will be because of the lack of pvp expertise gear. I am glad I have most of my set already...and it really isn't that hard to earn and will soon be easier (I beleive they are removing the stupid random bags and giving a token to get what you want). Still all this would not be needed if they didn't have pvp gear and made the game more difficult overall.

 

You have three options:

 

1) Allow someone to compete in end-game PvE raids without having to progress through any of the content. Everything's achievable solo and playing mediocre; it's just a matter of time.

 

2) Make end-game PvE gear better than PvP gear. So the only way to be competitive in PvP is to do hardcore PvE raiding.

 

3) Have a PvP-only stat.

 

Complain all you want about (3), it's still the lesser of evils.

[Loxion]

"I doubt bioware will ever improve things..."

 

They are improving it in the FIRST content patch.

 

OP - the reason you are getting smoked in PVP is because you don't have Expertise gear (which is level 50 PVP gear). In patch 1.1 level 50 players will be in their own bracket so if you are not 50, you won't have to deal with Expertise geared players destroying you.

 

True, you will just have to deal with expertise geared players destroying you when you are level 50 instead of at lower levels. Until you get expertise gear you are useless against players that have it.

 

I regularly get 2 shotted in PvP by IA's, but I keep doing the odd PvP warzone just to build up warzone points so I can hopefully get some gear when I hit 50.

 

Having said that, at the low 40s I can tank 3 lvl 50 players long enough for someone to ninja one of the points on Alderaan, so not all bad I suppose

[Dreildrag]

True, you will just have to deal with expertise geared players destroying you when you are level 50 instead of at lower levels. Until you get expertise gear you are useless against players that have it.

 

I regularly get 2 shotted in PvP by IA's, but I keep doing the odd PvP warzone just to build up warzone points so I can hopefully get some gear when I hit 50.

 

Having said that, at the low 40s I can tank 3 lvl 50 players long enough for someone to ninja one of the points on Alderaan, so not all bad I suppose

 

LOL.. wow.. really? Tanking 3 lvl 50's with broken shield's and defense mechanics in ANY gear you wear?

 

You rather forgot to mention the 2-3 healers constantly healing you to keep them from 3 shotting you or you live in a world full of make believe.

 

In PVP 95% of all the classes can and will skip any or all your armor.. your just about the same as running around in orange armor with nothng in the mod slots doing half the damage (by design) as any DPS class.

 

Peope havent mentioned it much but even in PVE Vanguards lvl 35 on up its a drag to lvl since mitigation becomes crap also, most likely due to the same reasons Vanguards are becomming hated by the republic in BG's... They are a waste of a class that often brings a groups progression down since they dont have much to offer currently.

 

Currently my 50 Van is shelfed as well as 6 others by other players for the exact same reasons, but its all classes and companions that use heavy armor and a shield, not just a Vanguard.

 

Dont belive me count how many times you see your shield bubble go off PVP and late game PVE.. wont be much.

 

And again the link for reference with detailed instructions and video's on how to see how broken you really are for yourself. And while your reading and watching this ask yourself "Why did Bioware remove the combat logs?"

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

Edited January 14, 2012 by Dreildrag

[silentsurfer]

Op if you are storming into the main melee you are asking to be focused. You should be sitting on the outskirts throwing taunts and DPSing from range until you see a below 50% enemy then you storm in drop your spike damage on him and chain stun him to death...then storm back out to a ranged healer..dps where your interrupts are more effective. You do not want to be at melee range until you know you are going to kill someone. If melee come after you then kite and AE stun taunt etc. Do everything you can to have them kite you doing no or low damage. If you put guard on a healer they are going to make sure you stay alive over anyone else as long as you are in guard range. If you are fighting in the melee furball and not actually doing anything for them you are no longer priority. You are not there to DPS you are there to lower the damage done by the other team, shut down casters/healers, and keep your healers up. If you are getting focused down then you are overextended. You should be pulling ranged classes to your melee not jumping into their melee.

 

Um, what exactly is your definition of a tank then? So who exactly is suppose to charge in then? This is the problem with Vanguards they really aren't a tank. They are a ranged class with lots of melee attacks that can mitigate some damage both from ranged and melee. If a Vanguards place wasn't suppose to be in the thick of it, then why do abilities like Storm exist? Why are there so many skills that add to Stockstrikes damage and crit? Why does the skill Gut exist? Why are the most powerful attacks only useable within 5 meters like Pulse Cannon? Look at the skills and abilities, this class was intended to be a close up fighter but sadly it's just not durable enough to be one. If they ever change how shields and absorbs work in pvp then this class might be able to be played as it was intended.

[SoldieroftheOne]

A lot of instant kills has to do with biochem stacking and pvp consumables as well. Add a relic critic into that rotation and you crit for a high amount of damage. Its not all class base its consumables and relics as well. Look at the developement tracking post. They nerf biochem for this very reason. Patch 1.1 will stop a lot of stacking on adrenals and consumables.

[Lyability]

After three people posted why, people are still posting dribble.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

Just in case one of you all missed it.

[Iccon]

"I doubt bioware will ever improve things..."

 

They are improving it in the FIRST content patch.

 

OP - the reason you are getting smoked in PVP is because you don't have Expertise gear (which is level 50 PVP gear). In patch 1.1 level 50 players will be in their own bracket so if you are not 50, you won't have to deal with Expertise geared players destroying you.

 

omg it takes pvp gear to excel in pvp? I cry nerf nerf nerf.

 

 

Seriously, you people crying need to step back and take a look at things.

 

I personally don't pvp. If I want competitive gaming, I'll go play an FPS. If you're in pve gear and not at level cap and getting wrecked by level 50's in expertise gear, then I really don't know what to tell you besides ****.

[Maedel]

Get pvp gear...own faces.

 

Seriously though I can easily put out 300k damage a game plus the protection points means I never have less then 8 medals a game. Just keep at it trust me you will stockstrike faces off.

[Fafryd]

A lot of the games where I see 300k damage personally are:

- both teams have a lot of healing to stay up (particularly keeping you up)

- the opponents are sub 50s with you benefitting from Expertise

- you had a few chances to use mortar volley or pulse cannon

 

If you find yourself in a warzone where its 50s in gear going at other 50s in gear, I tend to see the Vanguard falling behind in damage. I haven't fully concluded if the Vanguard DPS spec puts out enough or not - I suspect it's an also ran when opponents are geared as you need to get into melee range for sustained periods and it becomes easier to get nuked by others from range. Those fights become a test of which team overall heals best (and Vanguards cannot heal).

 

Any class getting focused that cannot heal is in trouble. A healer may live longer. A class with the annoying absorb bubble (as opposed to ours) may live longer.

 

It's nice to play like Oozo sometimes though.