Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[Redorbz]

People are being ignorant or they are confused. They keep calling the AC a "class" when , even in the game its called an "Advanced Class". An "advanced class" which , in fact, shares about 6 abilities, the main stat (Aim, cunning etc.) and a talent tree and even the storyline with the other advanced class.

 

Stop calling it a class, if they had meant it to be a class they wouldv'e labelled it as such. Dont go putting words in biowares mouth by trying to call an advanced class a class in its own right, its clearly not.

 

And saying that going from an operative to a sniper is anything even remotely like going from a lock to a rogue is asinine. Your dont know what your talking about, or possibly just a troll if you say something anything like this.

 

This is a critical issue that needs to be fixed. No one coming to swtor from other mmos will accept this for very long. Its the opposite of all other modern MMOs. The whole mmo industry has been moving away from that model for years, and bioware decides to reinvent the wheel?

 

Theres a reason changing specs is good for business. it retains players.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Redorbz

[VanorDM]

they are not, being a Sorcerer or an Assasin is exactly the same story-wise

 

They may have the same story, but the classes do not play anything at all the same way.

[Cadiva]

I know for a fact it's the same up to at least level 13, because I played a Marauder up to 22 in beta and I have played a Juggernaut up to 13 currently. I've decided, however, that the Juggernaut play style is not what I expected it to be and wish I had the time to waste just to do 13 levels of identical content again.

 

I don't, that's why I am playing an entirely different class now instead.

 

I would lose nothing if given the ability to respec my Juggernaut to a Marauder, nothing. The game would not be easier, it would just be less tedious.

 

Level 13 is three levels after you pick your AC, believe me there is nothing remotely similar between the way a Jugg plays and a Marauder plays once you get off the second planet.

[Falkelord]

Well i like the game, i wanted a different AC and i misclicked

 

Let me get this straight:

 

You want Bioware to make it so you don't have to be so stupid that you can't read and make ABSOLUTELY SURE you've selected the right AC?

 

This game is pretty idiot proof as it comes, it doesn't need to be dumbed down any more. Hell WoW didn't even ship with a "show me where to go to do my quest" tool.

 

If you really mis-clicked, then go re-make it. I got an inquisitor to level 10 in less than an hour by skipping all the conversations I already did

 

IT'S ACTUALLY PRETTY EASY.

[VanorDM]

Stop calling it a class, if they had meant it to be a class they woulv'e labelled it as such.

 

Ok...

 

So the Advanced class isn't actually labelled as a class???

 

The ingame dialog you get, about how once you pick your advanced class is a decision that can not be undone, and as such needs to be considered carefully, because it's a one time choice... That doesn't mean anything either right?

[Falkelord]

Stop calling it a class, if they had meant it to be a class they wouldv'e labelled it as such. Dont go putting words in biowares mouth by trying to call an advanced class a class in its own right, its clearly not.

 

AC (noun)

Advanced Class

 

As in not "Advanced Specialization"

 

You lose sorry.

[PJEBarlow]

Level 13 is three levels after you pick your AC, believe me there is nothing remotely similar between the way a Jugg plays and a Marauder plays once you get off the second planet.

 

But I don't care, I am not enjoying the Juggernaut play style, so why do you want me to sink even more time in to a character I don't enjoy just because you claim it'll be a completely different experience than what I'd get from a Marauder. And I doubt this claim, by the way, I actually suspect I'll go to all the same places and do all the same quests unless I switch to a different base class.

 

I just don't want to do the same 13 levels again, that's why I'm not even playing a Warrior now. What does the game lose?

[Cadiva]

I must be the only one in here who have played Rift for a while, and saw how flexibility can greatly improve the enjoyment you get from this kind of games.

 

In Rift you have 4 archetype, and within these archetype you have 9 souls, which are basically 9 different classes.

 

And you know what? It was fun. With my rogue i could main tank during group dungeons, heal as a bard when needed, and enjoy myself in PVP as an assassin.

 

This is not about choice being important (they are not, being a Sorcerer or an Assasin is exactly the same story-wise), but about having fun. About being able to be a healer to help your group out, and then beign able to queue up for some mindless pvp as a DPS. About reducing the time spent LFG for a tank or a healer. About having more people playing these role.

 

Not introducing some kind of dual spec will badly hurt this game in the long run, no question about it.

 

And Rift's whole reason for EXISTING was their multi role characters, it's what the game was sold on which is why it works and why most people don't have a problem with people being able to pick a PvE skill tree and a PvP skill tree but NOT switching between a tank and a dps or a healer and a tank in a game which was not designed around that very thing.

[Lethality]

People are being ignorant or they are confused. They keep calling the AC a "class" when , even in the game its called an "Advanced Class". An "advanced class" which , in fact, shares about 6 abilities, the main stat (Aim, cunning etc.) and a talent tree and even the storyline with the other advanced class.

 

Stop calling it a class, if they had meant it to be a class they wouldv'e labelled it as such. Dont go putting words in biowares mouth by trying to call an advanced class a class in its own right, its clearly not.

 

And saying that going from an operative to a sniper is anything even remotely like going from a lock to a rogue is asinine. Your dont know what your talking about, or possibly just a troll if you say something anything like this.

 

This is a critical issue that needs to be fixed. No one coming to swtor from other mmos will accept this for very long. Its the opposite of all other modern MMOs. The whole mmo industry has been moving away from that model for years, and bioware decides to reinvent the wheel?

 

Theres a reason changing specs is good for business. it retains players.

 

Advanced Classes are classes in TOR.

 

Classes are stories in TOR.

 

Once you understand and accept that, this whole mess goes away and even the most zealous realize that, obviously, you do not switch classes in an MMO.

[Falkelord]

But I don't care, I am not enjoying the Juggernaut play style, so why do you want me to sink even more time in to a character I don't enjoy just because you claim it'll be a completely different experience than what I'd get from a Marauder

 

No one forced you to go Juggernaut. If you liked Marauder so much, you should have chosen it knowing it was what you expected/wanted. That's entirely your fault, not Bioware's for letting you not change when you knew what you wanted in the first place.

 

No. Bad. We do that outside.

[SlickDevlan]

I know for a fact it's the same up to at least level 13, because I played a Marauder up to 22 in beta and I have played a Juggernaut up to 13 currently. I've decided, however, that the Juggernaut play style is not what I expected it to be and wish I had the time to waste just to do 13 levels of identical content again.

 

I don't, that's why I am playing an entirely different class now instead.

 

I would lose nothing if given the ability to respec my Juggernaut to a Marauder, nothing. The game would not be easier, it would just be less tedious.

 

 

You had time to level a new class but not enough time to level a new class? Did I just read that right?

[VanorDM]

Every single other thing would be pretty much identical, why do I want to spend hours doing the same 1-13 grind again?

 

If it's so identical, then why switch?

 

I mean if there's so little difference between a Juggernaut and Marauder then there shouldn't be any reason to play one vs the other. Thus no reason to change from one AC to the other.

 

The mere fact that you want to, proves there's a difference.

 

That said, myself and I've seen other say the same thing, wouldn't mind a one time respect that expires between lvl 15 and 20.

[Lethality]

But I don't care, I am not enjoying the Juggernaut play style, so why do you want me to sink even more time in to a character I don't enjoy just because you claim it'll be a completely different experience than what I'd get from a Marauder. And I doubt this claim, by the way, I actually suspect I'll go to all the same places and do all the same quests unless I switch to a different base class.

 

I just don't want to do the same 13 levels again, that's why I'm not even playing a Warrior now. What does the game lose?

 

Well, because quite simply if you rolled a mage in another game, you wouldn't expect to be able to switch it to a warrior if you didn't like it, would you?

 

Plus, what if you DID get to switch? And then you didn't like Marauder either? Then what? "Just one more switch" I guess.

[Cadiva]

Oh, you edited your post to elaborate, so I will reply to that: -

 

You obviously miss the point. The play style is what I would like to change, and the play style is the only thing that would change if I had the opportunity to respec my Juggernaut to a Marauder.

 

Every single other thing would be pretty much identical, why do I want to spend hours doing the same 1-13 grind again?

 

I don't miss the point, it's not the point of the argument. What you're asking for is to change between playing a dps class and playing a tank. That's like saying, as I've mentioned before, in Dark Age of Camelot which used the same set up as SW:tOR does, that you started playing as a Skald, realised you didn't like being the speed class and wanted to switch to being a Warrior, which is the straight up tank. It's a CLASS change not a specialisation change.

 

But I don't care, I am not enjoying the Juggernaut play style, so why do you want me to sink even more time in to a character I don't enjoy just because you claim it'll be a completely different experience than what I'd get from a Marauder. And I doubt this claim, by the way, I actually suspect I'll go to all the same places and do all the same quests unless I switch to a different base class.

 

I just don't want to do the same 13 levels again, that's why I'm not even playing a Warrior now. What does the game lose?

 

Yes you'll go to all the same places and do all the same CLASS quests because you're playing a Sith Warrior. That's NOT what people have been arguing.

The way a Sith Marauder plays in their abilities and styles is absolutely different to the way a Sith Marauder plays once you hit around level 15 as two of us have said a couple of times in this thread already. Where you level and the class quests you do aren't any different, no-one's ever claimed they were though.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Cadiva

[Freyar]

One Million Credits (Base, may increase each subsequent AC change..)

 

48 Hour Debuff, Persists Thru Death

-20% Credit/XP gains.

When expired, AC changes.

 

6-month cooldown. Cooldown suspends if account is no longer active.

[Jett_Skirata]

Stop calling it a class, if they had meant it to be a class they wouldv'e labelled it as such. Dont go putting words in biowares mouth by trying to call an advanced class a class in its own right, its clearly not.

 

Are you for real? I would call labeling something as an advanced class labeling it as a class. It's right there, they use the word class in the phrase "advanced class".

 

Brain surgeons, and Dermatologists both start off as "doctors". Doesn't mean they're the same thing, and should decide to switch when they feel like it..

Edited January 13, 2012 by Jett_Skirata

[JabbaCG]

No, thanks.

 

Anyway I think AC story class should be at least a bit different.

Edited January 13, 2012 by JabbaCG

[LucaProv]

They may have the same story, but the classes do not play anything at all the same way.

 

That's exactly my point. A feral druid play nothing like a Moonkin. In Rift, a rogue can be a Rfitstalker (tank), a Bard (healer), Ranger (pet class) Hunter and so on. They play nothing alike, but you can easily swap between them and enjoy completety different playstiles with one just toon. And it's fun, really fun to have this kind of different option available to you. But most important, you could group up more easily, which is already one of the biggest problem this game have right now.

 

If the choice of an advance class had a big impact on the personal story, i'd have been the first against it, i can guarantee you that. But it's not like that, and this restriction will only prove detrimental in the long run.

Edited January 13, 2012 by LucaProv

[PJEBarlow]

No one forced you to go Juggernaut. If you liked Marauder so much, you should have chosen it knowing it was what you expected/wanted. That's entirely your fault, not Bioware's for letting you not change when you knew what you wanted in the first place.

 

No. Bad. We do that outside.

 

Like I said earlier, and I'll repeat it because you clearly didn't read it: -

 

If this wasn't a completely new game, I would accept that point, but I did not know what to expect from the Juggernaught when I chose the AC apart from the fact that it can tank or DPS and other little bits of information I gleamed from previewing the spec tree.

 

It was only until I got to level 13, trained new abilities and played it for a while, that I thought "in fairness this AC is not really for me, I did play a Marauder in beta and I'd rather play one again".

 

It's a very simple change of mind for completely understandable reasons, and I don't know why people get so upset just because people like me would rather respec than grind out 13 levels of the exact same content again. It isn't difficult or challenging, it's just tedious.

 

You had time to level a new class but not enough time to level a new class? Did I just read that right?

 

Well, because quite simply if you rolled a mage in another game, you wouldn't expect to be able to switch it to a warrior if you didn't like it, would you?

 

Plus, what if you DID get to switch? And then you didn't like Marauder either? Then what? "Just one more switch" I guess.

 

And now we're in straw man zone, attacking arguments I went out of my way to clear up in advance...

 

I said I don't like the idea of re-rolling my Juggernaut to a Marauder because it's 13 levels of grinding the exact same content, because it doesn't add any difficulty or challenge and only serves to be a tedious waste of a couple of hours.

 

The reason I was happy to invest that time in to a completely different base class is because the entire experience from 1-13 is completely and utterly different.

 

Now, do you understand, or do you have more scare crows to stuff with straw?

Edited January 13, 2012 by PJEBarlow

[Motoeric]

hahaha i find it funny when people apose simple quality of life ideas. As if by changing this, it would ruin everything they (the players) worked so hard on to create, and by changing it it would just flush every bit of integrity this game has down the drain.

 

I mean come on, this community is so up its own *** about lore and what is or isnt right for **** its such a joke. They said they would in the Q&A, rerolling is a long *** process, and quite frankly i shouldnt have to level the same class and go through the same class quest twice just because i want to see everything my character can do.

 

I get really annoyed with all the fanboys acting like THEY had the idea in their head of what SWTOR should be and THEY brought it to life. No, your playing a game made by Developers (you players are not developers). The game is in their image, and your opinion should be humbly placed, rather than acting like your on some self righteous crusade to save this game from your understanding of doom.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Motoeric

[SnoggyMack]

What's being lost if I could respec my level 13 Juggernaut to a Marauder now?

 

About 4 to 5 hours of gameplay to just get a new character to 13. Not really much of an issue in the grand scheme of things.

[Falkelord]

It isn't difficult or challenging, it's just tedious.

 

But it's really not. It takes an hour to an hour and a half to get back to 13.

 

It's simple: Press space bar in every conversation. You skip everything you've already done, and get to enjoy your new class.

[Narcrus]

Absolutely not.

 

 

Half of the classe's ACs make that class COMPLETELY different.

 

Example: Shadow = Rogue

Sage = Mage

 

 

If they were to allow this, I would then be able to COMPLETELY change my class. I am tired of being stealth? Let me just strut on over and become a mage. -trollface-

 

They even give you the talent trees to look at before you choose your AC, if you didn't like what you picked, you should have given it more thought.

 

 

What is even the point of having an AC if you are allowed to just switch back and forth at will? It defeats the whole purpose, might as well just add a bunch of new classes to the game and just scrap the AC idea if you want to do that.

[Freyar]

I get really annoyed with all the fanboys acting like THEY had the idea in their head of what SWTOR should be and THEY brought it to life. No, your playing a game made by Developers (you players are not developers). The game is in their image, and your opinion should be humbly placed, rather than acting like your on some self righteous crusade to save this game from your understand of doom.

 

> People disagreeing with me are self-righteous and don't know what they're talking about.

[Redorbz]

Ok...

 

So the Advanced class isn't actually labelled as a class???

 

The ingame dialog you get, about how once you pick your advanced class is a decision that can not be undone, and as such needs to be considered carefully, because it's a one time choice... That doesn't mean anything either right?

 

 

Your correct, the advanced class is NOT labelled as a class. Words matter, especially placement and definition.

 

Think of Coke as an example. You have Coke, then you have Cherry Coke. See how that word Cherry changes everything

 

Both ADVANCED classes of each of the 4 actual classes share about 6 abilities, the main stat (Aim, cunning etc.) a talent tree and even the storyline with the other advanced class.

 

 

Advanced: adjective; meaning = ahead of or further along in progress, complexity, knowledge, skill, etc.

 

By its very definition an AC is a subset of class, not seperate from. You act like allowng to change AC is going to break the game.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Redorbz