Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[SlickDevlan]

I've already addressed that by saying that I would agree if this weren't a completely new game. When I chose to roll my Juggernaut sites like Torhead were still pretty empty, there wasn't a lot of useful information out there to tell me if the AC was particularly for me unless I tried it for myself.

 

So what would be taken away?

 

 

 

What's taken away from the game if I can respec instead of grinding Korriban again like a spacebar-mashing zombie?

 

 

 

You're not reading a word I've said, have you, because I'm going to need to repeat it now for the third or fourth time: -

 

I was fine with rolling a completely different base class, instead of the same class but a different AC, because I didn't feel like sinking a couple of hours in to the game doing the exact same content with zero challenge like a spacebar-mashing zombie.

 

I'm sure this will be ignored yet again though, when someone else with no real reason for why this would ruin the game, comes along to attack another straw man. The fact someone literally just told me to grind "4 or 5 hours" (their words, I know it would be a bit less) on the previous pages says it all, that there would be nothing of value actually lost in my situation.

 

And I'll repeat myself for the third time also...if you had time to do you had time to do the other. Don't blame the game because you CHOSE how to spend your time.

[Pyrolight]

Wait.

 

 

Let's put this is WoW context. You have a 50 rogue for example. And you don't want to play it anymore, and you want to try out a mage? You want to be able to completely CHANGE your CLASS and have a level 50 mage right of the bat? Because that is exactly what you are saying.

 

No it's not.

 

Both sentinel and Guardian are part of the Jedi Knight parent class. Going from one to another is not changing between two parent classes (gear,resources and story)

 

Hell a druid changed roles and resource with a change of talent tree.

 

Your example is terrible.

 

 

"I don't like being a rogue so i want to be able to switch to a different class at the same level pl0x."

 

Arms -> Fury -> Prot. Prot -> Holy -> Ret.

 

AC just represent roles in function.

 

What don't get is that at ten, you are literally choosing your MAIN CLASS. This AC is what makes you SO different from a sage, because it is literally the complete opposite.

 

Again Druids, Paladins, Warrior, DeathKnights, yawn, etc.

 

It's Bioware just labeling something to try and be unique while functionally it is not. That is, it is a copy of WoW or Rift.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Pyrolight

[PJEBarlow]

It's the same thing as leveling a Orc Rogue after leveling a Orc Warrior. You literally go through the exact same thing, same quests, same content (save for the terrible "story quests").

 

This isn't World of Warcraft, as the anti-respec crowd are quick to point out when it suits them.

 

Levels 1-16 or so are essentially a fixed story quest, there's no other way to get enough XP to level until 10 and that's only if you like PvP. If the game is "all about the story" as Bioware are always telling us, why not let us skip the 1-10 or 1-16 part if we decide our AC is not for us after having a chance to experience it for ourselves?

 

I'll repeat the key question: What does it take away from the game?

 

And I'll repeat myself for the third time also...if you had time to do you had time to do the other. Don't blame the game because you CHOSE how to spend your time.

 

At this point you might as well be putting your fingers in to your ears and shouting "la la la" at the top of your voice, because I already answered you at least once or twice: -

 

After effectively shelving my juggernaut I chose to put my time in to playing a smuggler instead of rolling another warrior to play a marauder because the experience is 100% different from 1-16. Even if I had still gone with an Imperial character like an inquisitor, and I was playing in the same zones, the story quests would be different.

 

That's the difference, let it sink in.

Edited January 13, 2012 by PJEBarlow

[Makade]

I must admit I don't understand the unnecessary strictness when it comes to doing this.

 

I can see where you're coming from, but people should carefully make decisions and live with them. If somebody doesn't carefully make their decision, then the penalty is wasting a couple more hours getting to lvl 10 again. I did my homework, carefully pressed the right button, and haven't had to waste the time re-leveling to 10. /shrugs

[Evilidea]

The class quests are still different. The quests on my Sage at level 12 had different objectives than my boyfriends Guardian at level 12. If all quests were pointless as the side quests, then yes, go for it. But even at level 12 the class quests are different with different characters and objectives.

 

No I do believe that their are 8 total story quest. Same for Juggler and Marauder for example, not 16.

[Redorbz]

Wait.

 

 

Let's put this is WoW context. You have a 50 rogue for example. And you don't want to play it anymore, and you want to try out a mage? You want to be able to completely CHANGE your CLASS and have a level 50 mage right of the bat? Because that is exactly what you are saying.

 

 

"I don't like being a rogue so i want to be able to switch to a different class at the same level pl0x."

 

 

What don't get is that at ten, you are literally choosing your MAIN CLASS. This AC is what makes you SO different from a sage, because it is literally the complete opposite.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: And to people who say they didn't have enough info for you to choose on your AC, you were able to look at the given trees for each AC so you get a more in-depth look at that AC. If you looked into more, you probably wouldn't be regretting your AC.

 

 

Both ADVANCED classes of each of the 4 actual classes share about 6 abilities, the main stat (Aim, cunning etc.) a talent tree and even the storyline with the other advanced class.

 

 

Am I confused or are you guys? because we can both be right.

 

Operative and Sniper share 6 abilities

mage and rogue share 0

 

operative and sniper share the main stat cunning

Rogue vs mage= Agi vs Intell so chalk it up to 0

 

Operative and sniper share a talent tree.

Mage and rogue shared trees? 0

 

Same storyline in operative and sniper too. Someone said ACs have differnet storylines. This is a lie a best and terrible ignorance at worst.

 

So we can clearly all see how both advanced classes are directly related in 4 major ways.

 

So stop with the "QQ Im a mage but I wanna be a rogue" BS, its not correct at all.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Redorbz

[Pyrolight]

The class quests are still different. The quests on my Sage at level 12 had different objectives than my boyfriends Guardian at level 12. If all quests were pointless as the side quests, then yes, go for it. But even at level 12 the class quests are different with different characters and objectives.

 

Sage and Guardian are from different base classes.

[smason]

And for those who picked a advanced class they didn't like then what? I would hate to rerole and spend all of that time getting back to the point I was at. For example I chose Assassin think it would be fun, it wasn't. I fully understand how to use it but I hate it so much. But I am a lvl 20 and I don't want to rerole becuase unlike some people I don't have that much time.

 

Anyway there are no cons to respecing your advanced class so /signed.

 

Same for me as a marauder, i got to 43 and from reading everyones post, its gets better, it doesnt, i friggin hate marauder but i dont have a choice of rerolling because of time. My guild has a deadline to hit 50 and there is no way i can get another character that high in the amount of time left, so iam stuck with a class i friggin hate for now.

 

A one time AC swap per account would be a god send.

[Cadiva]

Neither do the AC. They are all still coke.

 

No they're really not. A Sith Juggernaut is nothing like a Sith Marauder and it plays nothing like it, it has no skill tree in common, uses different armour and different weapons.

[PJEBarlow]

Same storyline in operative and sniper too. Someone said ACs have differnet storylines. This is a lie a best and terrible ignorance at worst.

 

I hope this isn't the case because it would be sad if they'd stoop so low as to flat out lie to support their argument.

[Keihryon]

It's a subclass, that's like saying different specs in WoW are different classes entirely, each spec has a different way of playing so it MUST be a different class right?

 

You are referencing the wrong game. DAoC had Fighter, scout, mage, as base classes.

 

At level 5 a fighter could then choose Paladin, Mercenary, Armsman (Albion Faction) Those three Advanced classes ahd the same skills up to level 5, but after that their skills varied.

No-one, when lfg, said "lvl 15 fighter-paladin lfg. They just said paladin, because that was their class! And they could never switch between the three either, they could however, respec their specialization points within their CLASS.

 

 

Just like I don't say level 37 Knight-Guardian looking for group. I say 37 Defense Guardian, Because Guardian is my class and defense is my spec.

 

 

Sorry if this has been hashed, but I got to the umpteenth version of this reply before I had to respond.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Keihryon

[SlickDevlan]

I hope this isn't the case because it would be sad if they'd stoop so low as to flat out lie to support their argument.

 

You mean as opposed to saying that something you chose to do is somehow a flaw in the game...?

[hashieno]

I do not support the idea put forth by the OP.

 

Advanced Class is your actual class. Everything 10> is training to get a basic feel for your role.

 

I have seen this comment a lot, but if this is the case then why in the class forums is "sith inquisitor" the class forum, and then you can view the subforums from there for sorc and assassin? Are you telling me they devoted the main page for the sith inquisitor to what occurs between levels 1-10?

[Dunzo]

Since there's so much semantics here and some people don't seem to understand how this game works, I'll draw it out using JK as an example.

 

Step 1 - Pick Class (Jedi Knight)

 

Step 2 - Level 10, Pick Advanced Class (Jedi Sentinel)

 

What just happened? Did I suddenly stop being just a Jedi Knight and become something else entirely? No. You have specialized into an Advanced (adj.) Class (n.), something completely dependant on your core class. If this was not the case, we would all simply start as Jedi and specialize into Sage, Shadow, Guardian or Sentinel each with their own stories and zones. The game itself does not distinguish between your AC. You get the same ship, story, companions and titles regardless of your AC. All it is - is play style.

 

Bioware did this instead of making more central classes because it would mean more class stories, more gear, different companions, so forth. So they made 4 classes each with different specializations. This is like being a Doctor and specializing as a Heart Surgeon. In the end, you're still a Doctor but you specialize in heart surgery. This is blatantly obvious. It's not a matter of opinion, it's just the way it is.

 

Step 3 - Pick a tree (Combat)

 

Each subclass has it's own trees to further specialize your play style - PVP, PVE, DPS, heals, tanking, etc. This gives players a more refined character overall. Good idea, if not unbalanced for several classes at the moment.

 

So at this point you are for all effective purposes a Jedi Knight Sentinel, or Jedi Sentinel for short. You still go to a Jedi Knight trainer, and you still learn shared Jedi Knight abilities in addition to your Jedi Sentinel abilities. You enter Jedi Knight story zones, titled as such, and even your codex puts entries as (Knight).

 

So finally, should players be allowed to respec CLASSES? No. Knight->Consular? No. Should we be allowed to respec our advanced classes for a multitude of reasons? Yes. Why? Because nobody stands to lose anything and everyone stands to gain something. It doesn't hurt the game in any way, and it gives players the ability to change their role in PVE, PVP and so forth.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Dunzo

[PJEBarlow]

You mean as opposed to saying that something you chose to do is somehow a flaw in the game...?

 

I'm not saying it's "a flaw in the game", not in the sense of a design flaw.

 

I am saying it would be a nice option to implement because there would be no downside to it, if someone rolls an AC without knowing if its combat style suits them then there's nothing taken away by them skipping grinding from 1-13 or 1-16 again for no reason.

[LordEberon]

Ok, this is just MY opinion:

 

I'm leveling a 34 Bounty Hunter Mercenary Healer at the Moment and it's great fun so far. But I already think "Hey, could be fun to try out the Powertech tanking spec for a change".

 

So what harm would it do (to you, to the class story or to white fluffy kittens) if I respeced to Powertech (with a month cooldown or costing extremely large amounts of credits or whatever), because I get bored with healing, just to try out if I would have more fun tanking?

 

Now two things can happen:

1. Changing AC won't be allowed: I level to 50 (want to see how the story ends of course), get bored with healing, can't be a**** to level a 2nd Bounty Hunter since I put a lot of Effort in my 1st char and since I only have time to play 1-2 hours tops in the evening after work. Eventually I will just quit the game -> less money for Bioware.

 

2. Changing AC will be allowed: I level to 50 (want to see how the story ends of course), decide to try Powertech, maybe like tanking, keep playing a little longer -> more money for Bioware.

 

This is only MY point of view, but allowing players more flexibility and more stuff to try out, will keep more players subbed in the long run. And after all Bioware is just a company trying to make as much money as they can.

 

1. Players like me stay around longer rolling and playing classes from the beginning.

 

2. I quit playing sooner because I just dont feel like my choices mean anything and I get frustrated with everyone switching to the AC de jour.

 

I am tellin ya things like dual spec and class changes make as many people unhappy as they make happy. You cant make the its good for bioware argument on this. You can only make the its good for 'me' argument.

[Cadiva]

It's Bioware just labeling something to try and be unique while functionally it is not. That is, it is a copy of WoW or Rift.

 

No it isn't, it follows the mechanics of Dark Age of Camelot or EverQuest II before it gets anywhere near WoW or Rift.

[Redorbz]

Since there's so much semantics here and some people don't seem to understand how this game works, I'll draw it out.

 

Step 1 - Pick Class (Jedi Knight)

 

Step 2 - Level 10, Pick Advanced Class (Jedi Sentinel)

 

What just happened? Did I suddenly stop being just a Jedi Knight and become something else entirely? No. You have specialized into an Advanced (adj.) Class (n.), something completely dependant on your core class. If this was not the case, we would all simply start as Jedi and specialize into Sage, Shadow, Guardian or Sentinel each with their own stories and zones. The game itself does not distinguish between your AC. You get the same ship, story, companions and titles regardless of your AC. All it is - is play style.

 

Bioware did this instead of making more central classes because it would mean more class stories, more gear, different companions, so forth. So they made 4 classes each with different specializations. This is like being a Doctor and specializing as a Heart Surgeon. In the end, you're still a Doctor but you specialize in heart surgery. This is blatantly obvious. It's not a matter of opinion, it's just the way it is.

 

Step 3 - Pick a tree (Combat)

 

Each subclass has it's own trees to further specialize your play style - PVP, PVE, etc, DPS, heals, tanking, etc. This gives players a more refined character overall. Good idea, if not unbalanced for several classes at the moment.

 

So at this point you are for all effective purposes a Jedi Knight Sentinel, or Jedi Sentinel for short. You still go to a Jedi Knight trainer, and you still learn shared Jedi Knight abilities in addition to your Jedi Sentinel abilities. You enter Jedi Knight story zones, titled as such, and even your codex puts entries as (Knight).

 

So finally, should players be allowed to respec CLASSES? No. Knight->Consular? No. Should we be allowed to respec our advanced classes for a multitude of reasons? Yes. Why? Because nobody stands to lose anything and everyone stands to gain something. It doesn't hurt the game in any way, and it gives players the ability to change their role in PVE, PVP and so forth.

 

Thank you for your precision and eloquence. I tried to get the same point across but you have a much better way of describing it for those who dont seem to have clue. Thank you!

[Esaru]

ummm no

[Lugosi]

Bioware,

 

Please allow Advanced Class Respec. There's no reason for this, give players the choice! If you're worried it will hurt your story or something - don't. You don't seem to care you send Jedi to go slaughter hundreds of Sand People, so why care about something that is needlessly restricting players?

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT:

If you want to say "NO" or "Bioware will never do this!"...

 

WATCH:

 

Thanks to Salzwasser for the link.

 

...and to finally put matters to rest, read: http://torwars.com/2011/12/01/stephen-reid-on-advanced-class-switching/

 

re-roll

 

/thread

[Cadiva]

I hope this isn't the case because it would be sad if they'd stoop so low as to flat out lie to support their argument.

 

I believe the person concerned was talking about two different base classes and was mistaken/confused about the point being made.

[Pyrolight]

No they're really not. A Sith Juggernaut is nothing like a Sith Marauder and it plays nothing like it, it has no skill tree in common, uses different armour and different weapons.

 

Different weapons you say? Armour I will give you as it is heavy vs medium. They do use the same resources, have the same story, both are melee.

 

Inquisitor is a better example but they still are a carbon copy of a druid.

 

That is why I keep wondering why people are making it seem like AC are something unique and special.

 

AC just restrict roles for whatever reason but "functionally" play like WoW talent trees.

 

Sith Jugg -> Arms, Prot

Sith Mara -> Fury

 

Sith Sorcerer - Tree/Boomkin

Sith Assassin - Cat/Bear

 

 

To add more fuel to the fire

 

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/sith-inquisitor

 

They do call them specializations not AC.

 

 

No it isn't, it follows the mechanics of Dark Age of Camelot or EverQuest II before it gets anywhere near WoW or Rift.

 

See what I am getting at above.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Pyrolight

[PJEBarlow]

I believe the person concerned was talking about two different base classes and was mistaken/confused about the point being made.

 

The person I have in mind was specifically talking about Juggernaut vs. Marauder, trying to re-assure me that when you get a couple of planets in the storyline diverges.

 

See, you're looking at the wrong way. The "reason" is... you ready? The reason is... seriously, you ready? The reason is... BECAUSE YOU ROLLED A NEW CLASS AND CHARACTER! How is this concept still confusing to you? You managed to somehow roll the initial character and you claim to have managed it a second time. I just don't know if I believe you since you appear to have no knowledge of the process...

 

I don't know how you're not seeing my point, because you're still not. I'll take it slow...

 

I was happy to roll a new base class instead of the same class

 

Because

 

A different base class has an entirely different story, different locations, different quests

 

Essentially

 

I don't feel like grinding through Korriban and Dromund Kaas like a spacebar-mashing zombie, which I am not doing on my smuggler because it's an entirely different experience.

 

Do you get it now or are you going to come back a third time saying it's the same thing?

Edited January 14, 2012 by PJEBarlow

[ViperI]

So you want people to be miserable leveling the same class with the same story just because they found at level 30 the AC they picked sucked? I am going on a hunch and going to say you don't own a business, because in business the name of the game is keep customers happy not miserable.

 

Why would they be miserable just because they're playing the same story? Most games have the same plot/story for every class and people still play alts all the time. You don't hear people complaining about alts in other games. But if someone truely is upset about playing through the same story, they can simply re-roll any other class that has a different story. No one says they absolutely have to play the opposite AC of their original class.

[Cadiva]

Both ADVANCED classes of each of the 4 actual classes share about 6 abilities, the main stat (Aim, cunning etc.) a talent tree and even the storyline with the other advanced class.

 

 

Am I confused or are you guys? because we can both be right.

 

Operative and Sniper share 6 abilities

mage and rogue share 0

 

operative and sniper share the main stat cunning

Rogue vs mage= Agi vs Intell so chalk it up to 0

 

Operative and sniper share a talent tree.

Mage and rogue shared trees? 0

 

Same storyline in operative and sniper too. Someone said ACs have differnet storylines. This is a lie a best and terrible ignorance at worst.

 

So we can clearly all see how both advanced classes are directly related in 4 major ways.

 

So stop with the "QQ Im a mage but I wanna be a rogue" BS, its not correct at all.

 

Which is irrelevant. Whether they SHARE abilities or not does not make them the SAME thing. In DAoC every single Viking base class had the same abilities until they chose to SPECIALISE. Then they received different ones based on which Class they chose. Then, within that ADVANCED class, there were up to five different skill areas in which to place points giving a further specialisation. But no way in hell was the Berserker anything like the Warrior, the Skald anything like the Thane even though they both could hit things with a bl**y sword!

 

Different weapons you say? Armour I will give you as it is heavy vs medium. They do use the same resources, have the same story, both are melee.

 

Inquisitor is a better example but they still are a carbon copy of a druid.

 

That is why I keep wondering why people are making it seem like AC are something unique and special.

 

AC just restrict roles for whatever reason but "functionally" play like WoW talent trees.

 

Sith Jugg -> Arms, Prot

Sith Mara -> Fury

 

Sith Sorcerer - Tree/Boomkin

Sith Assassin - Cat/Bear

 

 

To add more fuel to the fire

 

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/sith-inquisitor

 

They do call them specializations not AC.

 

Can the Jugg duel wield? Is the Marauder able to use Shields? No, therefore they are NOT the same. They do not function like WoW's talent trees. The SKILL TREES within each AC function like WoW's skill trees in exactly the same way.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Cadiva