Extra skills for some is unfair!

[Algorithm]

QQ!! *sad robot eyes*!!!!

 

When a consumable has unlimited use, it becomes a skill. The way it is now, those who are 400 skill in biochem has access to 3 additional combat skills:

 

• Powerfull instant cast self heal on a 90 sec cooldown.
  
• 15 second stat boost (crit, surge, power etc.) on a 3 min cooldown.
  
• Permanent stat boost
  

 

 

Cybertech has a similar extra skill in the form of re-useable grenades. Basically cybertech's get an extra aoe attack on a 5 minute cooldown.

 

All other crew skills get no extra skill unless they are willing to spend thousands of credits for each use of the above mentioned skills. They do however get access to special items faster, for example artificing who get access to battlemaster artifacts once they hit 400. It is important to point out that these items become available to everyone else, it just takes more effort unlike the Biochem and Cybertech bonus skills which are unique to the profession.

 

Already on the PVP forum there is an outcry how subtle differences in skills between factions are ruining the game and people are already at eachothers throats saying this and this class is op compared to others. Yet the situation with the crafting skills, as i have shown above, clearly is unbalanced and unfair.

 

So the question then becomes: What bonus skills should be added to the other professions to compensate for the bonus skills given to biotech and cybertech?

 

Perhaps for artificing we should make all other relics consumable? right now the relics offered at the light/dark vendor are just as expensive as a consumable anyways!

[Mass]

I understand why only biochem people get to make those items; I don't understand why they are the only ones allowed to use those items. Seems like this wouldn't be a problem if those items could be sold to and used by everyone.

[Mormelgir]

Everyone got acces to those skills. Not just a few. You just got to pick the profession youreself.

 

And if biochems was able to sell those reusable consumables there would be no market for other consumables and kill the profession.

 

The game is young yet people demand balance from day one. Guess we all want things to fall in our laps with no work at all.

[Droidist]

I can see in the end that people will level crafting not the stuff you can make, but for the buffs you get, just like WoW... how totally sad. Why not just create those buffs and get rid of crafting... I am personnally still hopeful the game was rushed and crafting wasn't finished because currently it's not all that hot - especially at end game where it counts.

[TrevNYC]

 

Which only possibly matters if you run out of the limited-use consumables. Strictly speaking in terms of reusable vs. non-reusable (and not on differing stats, which is a separate issue), a person who goes into a 5 minute fight with a reusable on a 90 sec CD has the same added "skill" as the person who enters the fight with 100 of the item in their inventory.

 

Because it is possible to stay stocked up indefinitely, the only "unfairness" issue is whether it is unfair to let people who don't pick a crew skill have access to all the same things as people who do pick that skill. I won't add more to that debate, but I'll ask: Is it unfair that people who don't pick say, bounty hunters, don't get the same skills as those who did?

[Guiken]

If they would just let biochems product comparable consumables that could actually be afforded it wouldnt even be an issue. 20k in materials for a 15s adrenal buff, are you kidding me bioware?!

 

Even if stims/adrenals/medpacks had multiple uses, like 10~20 but to entirely reusable it would still go along way towards crew skill balancing and not actually forcing everyone to chose biochem or gimp themselves.

[Leilei]

Which only possibly matters if you run out of the limited-use consumables. Strictly speaking in terms of reusable vs. non-reusable (and not on differing stats, which is a separate issue), a person who goes into a 5 minute fight with a reusable on a 90 sec CD has the same added "skill" as the person who enters the fight with 100 of the item in their inventory.

 

Because it is possible to stay stocked up indefinitely, the only "unfairness" issue is whether it is unfair to let people who don't pick a crew skill have access to all the same things as people who do pick that skill. I won't add more to that debate, but I'll ask: Is it unfair that people who don't pick say, bounty hunters, don't get the same skills as those who did?

 

Considering there are a LOT more movement of reusable stuff than the consumables, Im assuming that people will be more inclined to just get biochem.

 

At least on my server thats how it is...3+ pages of reusable biochem stuff and 1 page of green consumables. No adrenals at all except for the odd one which costs 20+k each

 

Edit:

@above poster

 

Exactly the problem! Thats why I was trying to get people to take notice and have bioware bring down the adrenal to green level!

Edited January 13, 2012 by Leilei

[Algorithm]

If they would just let biochems product comparable consumables that could actually be afforded it wouldnt even be an issue. 20k in materials for a 15s adrenal buff, are you kidding me bioware?!

 

This is a big part of the problem. It is unrealistic to rely on consumables in swtor if you are not a biochemist. It is simply too expensive.

[Maximelene]

You do know that it exists reusable versions of these items for the non biochemists, yes ?

 

Exemple ?

 

Biochemist only : http://www.torhead.com/item/79Bok9Y/rakata-reflex-stim

Usable by anyone : http://www.torhead.com/item/8UdUYdP/exotech-reflex-stim

[Leilei]

You do know that it exists reusable versions of these items for the non biochemists, yes ?

 

Exemple ?

 

Biochemist only : http://www.torhead.com/item/79Bok9Y/rakata-reflex-stim

Usable by anyone : http://www.torhead.com/item/8UdUYdP/exotech-reflex-stim

 

Bro thats not reusable. lol

[VioletZero]

They should be able to produce equal non-reusable items to sell to others.

 

That would be fair. Well, that is if the other crew skills were worth a damn. No notable stat advantages, just convenience advantages.

[Wallach]

They should be able to produce equal non-reusable items to sell to others.

 

That would be fair. Well, that is if the other crew skills were worth a damn. No notable stat advantages, just convenience advantages.

 

That's basically how it was intended to work. They just broke the meta system with two very large errors regarding Exotech consumables.

[TrevNYC]

This is a big part of the problem. It is unrealistic to rely on consumables in swtor if you are not a biochemist. It is simply too expensive.

 

Immature markets have immature (and unreliable) prices. As more money enters the economy and people get a better sense of what things really are worth, then prices stabilize. Not only that, but what seems expensive now won't seem so expensive when you have more credits than you can spend.

 

Remember, unlike real life, you can effectively print credits at will, and you don't have to worry about taxes and many other expenses. Consumables are one of the only things that consistently require expenditures, and they have in-game competition. Vendors sell stims and medpacks too, which places competitive pressure on biochemists. A biochemist probably won't be able to charge 5x the price of a vendor item for 10% more benefit (just an example, numbers are made up).

[Algorithm]

Immature markets have immature (and unreliable) prices. As more money enters the economy and people get a better sense of what things really are worth, then prices stabilize. Not only that, but what seems expensive now won't seem so expensive when you have more credits than you can spend.

 

TrevNYC, Out of curiosity, what crew skill do you have?

[Arellea]

They should be able to produce equal non-reusable items to sell to others.

 

That would be fair. Well, that is if the other crew skills were worth a damn. No notable stat advantages, just convenience advantages.

 

The material requirements and crafting time probably need to come down as well if biochems are going to be able to supply these at a reasonable price. The basic green lvl 50 stim takes 9 mats and has a base crafting time of 5 mins to make. I have far more demand from just friends than I can supply, so forget actually selling them. If someone was using medpacks on CD I would need to have 3 companions continuously crafting them just to supply that individual.

[GnatB]

Everyone got acces to those skills. Not just a few. You just got to pick the profession youreself.

 

And if biochems was able to sell those reusable consumables there would be no market for other consumables and kill the profession.

 

The game is young yet people demand balance from day one. Guess we all want things to fall in our laps with no work at all.

 

Absurd argument. The reuseables should simply be far more expensive in materials than the non-reuseables. (assuming they aren't already). Which will mean there still is a market for the reuseables.

 

As is, the profession will be dead enough once everybody finishes whatever they need in the other professions and switches over. When everybody is biochem, where do your sales go then? Even of the mega expensive/profitable reuseables? Finally, even if it *doesn't* cost way more than regular ones. If you make 'em useable by other professions, then biochem is just like the other professions. High end "ultimate" stuff that takes the buyer "out" of the market. Just like with weapons/armor/etc. Armortech doesn't get to keep selling the same armor to a particular player, what gives Biochem that apparently undisputable "right"?

 

That being said, they should *definitely* be Bind on Use. (presumably they'd work like lockboxes or such, with the actual item inside the box BoP, whereas the box isn't B on anything)

 

Nothing a tradeskill (crewskill) makes should EVER be only useable by practicioners of that tradeskill. The only advantage a tradeskill *should* provide to somebody who puts the time in over somebody who completely ignores them should be *easier* access to items/money. Not exclusive access. Otherwise everybody becomes tradeskillers and the market evaporates as everybody can just do it themselves.

 

Edit: And yes, I'm saying ideally, only "tradeskillers" would dabble in tradeskills, maybe 10% or whatever of the population. Not every single person because they are required to compete "end game". Maybe *knowing* a tradeskiller is. Maybe having them in your guild. But not actually *being* one. (and yes, this is somebody who is *always* a tradeskiller in every MMO I've played)

Edited January 13, 2012 by GnatB

[Maximelene]

Bro thats not reusable. lol

 

****, wrong link.

 

Biochimist only : http://www.torhead.com/item/79Bok9Y/rakata-reflex-stim

Non biochimist version : http://www.torhead.com/item/c7Zp7JU/reusable-hyper-battle-reflex-stim

 

Everybody can use the second, and it works exactly like the first. yes, it's a bit less powerful, but it's the sole advantage of it.

 

Sto whining, and get one yourself.

[Aradax]

QQ!! *sad robot eyes*!!!!

 

When a consumable has unlimited use, it becomes a skill. The way it is now, those who are 400 skill in biochem has access to 3 additional combat skills

When someone choose a Sith Sorcerer at level 50 "Reanimation" becomes a skill. The way it is now, those who are level 50 in Sith Sorcerer has access to 1 additional combat skill!

 

I'm a Bounty Hunter and I WANT my "Reanimation" too!

 

P.S.

Force Storm also.

 

...

...

 

What the hell! I want all the Sith Sorcerer skills.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Aradax

[Nesso]

****, wrong link.

 

Biochimist only : http://www.torhead.com/item/79Bok9Y/rakata-reflex-stim

Non biochimist version : http://www.torhead.com/item/c7Zp7JU/reusable-hyper-battle-reflex-stim

 

Everybody can use the second, and it works exactly like the first. yes, it's a bit less powerful, but it's the sole advantage of it.

 

Sto whining, and get one yourself.

 

Wish I could but the item description currently in game matches this one: http://db.darthhater.com/recipes/669/reusable_hyper_battle_reflex_stim/

 

380 biochem requirement, for some reason torhead doesn't add that very important detail to it's item description.

[Damon_Mott]

So allow Armormechs, Armstechs and Artificers to make a set of BoP, customizable, "non decomposing" armor/weapons/items and it will balance itself out. It may not be a skill, but it would save a ton on repairs for those who choose to take those classes. Edited January 13, 2012 by Damon_Mott

[Maximelene]

Wish I could but the item description currently in game matches this one: http://db.darthhater.com/recipes/669/reusable_hyper_battle_reflex_stim/

 

380 biochem requirement, for some reason torhead doesn't add that very important detail to it's item description.

 

I don't think there's a requirement.

 

It's an improved version of an item without requirement, AND biochemists already have a better version, so this item would be TOTALLY USELESS.

 

I think Darthhater listed the retro engineering requirement.

[Nesso]

I don't think there's a requirement.

 

It's an improved version of an item without requirement, AND biochemists already have a better version, so this item would be TOTALLY USELESS.

 

I think Darthhater listed the retro engineering requirement.

 

Nope, trust me, I've looked it up for sale on the trade market, it's right there on the item window in red lettering (just to drive the point home that sub 380 biochemists can't use). Requires 380 biochem.

[Pherdnut]

It is silly for crafting to give PvP advantages. Everybody should be able to buy grenades and like-stimpacks and use them (if only consumable versions in biotech's case).

[StealthStalker]

Nope, trust me, I've looked it up for sale on the trade market, it's right there on the item window in red lettering (just to drive the point home that sub 380 biochemists can't use). Requires 380 biochem.

 

But, he's linking you to torhead...

[uziforyou]

I can see in the end that people will level crafting not the stuff you can make, but for the buffs you get, just like WoW... how totally sad. Why not just create those buffs and get rid of crafting... I am personnally still hopeful the game was rushed and crafting wasn't finished because currently it's not all that hot - especially at end game where it counts.

 

I guess what I don't understand is where it is written or even implied that crafting was meant to augment game gear/consumables etc.?

 

Crafting is supposed to be a fun diversion in addition to questing, heroics, flashpoints and such. It was never meant to be anything more than this so why do people think it should be?

 

Crafting is supposed to be a game play option. If the gear/augments/consumables are superior to what can be obtained through questing/heroics/flashpoints that would make crafting no longer optional and while I don't know for sure, I'm doubting that was the intent of the game designers.