There is no reason to play a healer other than Sage/Sorc

[DrekorSilverfang]

I'd swap my sage for a commando in a heartbeat.. Sage looks crap, has a boring story, very monotonous healing and is so overpopulated I can't stand it. Doing hm's with 3 sages and a shadow sucks. And commandos are due a buff, the healing will be balanced. The only thing putting me off is that I cant be assed levelling again and I've already levelled a vanguard so know the story. I wish I had made a commando instead.

 

Commandos/Mercs aren't going to get much of buff to healing. Maybe some tweaks but nothing major. Ops are the ones that are likely going to need big changes.

[Remulan]

All you people complaining about the sorc aoe heal obviously have no idea how it even works. You read the talent description on torhead or something and think you know what it is and then proceed to whine about how much healing it does.

 

Here are the facts on the sorc aoe heal:

 

1) it has a 2 sec activation time

2) it is a ground targetted circle, which means anyone not standing in the fairly small area the circle covers get 0 heals from it.

3) it costs a large amount of force

4) it has a fairly long cooldown as far as healing spells go

5) the sage version is much better because it heals the same over the duration with a large upfront heal when cast.

 

 

For all of the other complaining about sorcs, they are actually one of the weakest pvp healers when focused and interupted. Every heal they have except for the weak hot and the shield either has an activation time or a channel time. If you focus and interupt a sorc his only option is to run away and heal himself, not his team.

 

Yes, sorcs do have a few ways to escape (stun, force speed, etc), but they are neccesary because the sorc also wears light armor which means they have the least amount of mitigation in pvp of the healers.

 

Poor mitigation + dependency on cast times = an easy target in pvp for a COMPETANT team to shut down. If you leave a sorc alone in the back, they can put out some great healing numbers, but when they are running back from their spawn, their healing isn't so good. Also, dropping aoe heals on voidstar and racking up huge numbers because of the design of the wz doesn't make sorc healing overpowered. Just because you saw a screenshot with big numbers on it doesn't mean anything, you should maybe think about things in context.

[KujinRen]

As it stands, Sage/Sorc healers outclass the other options by far. The Force Armor ability, which provides excellent protection instantly and can be applied to all teammates, is unrivaled in terms of defensive power. Sages/Sorcs also have access to a Force speed ability (if I am not mistaken) which allows them to have far greater mobility than other healers as well, and in PvP, mobility is key. As it stands if a decent Sage and a decent Scoundrel/Commando/Merc/Operative are both healing, the Sage will undoubtedly come out on top in terms of raw healing. It is also likely the Sage will have more DPS due to Force Armor being able to be "cast and forgotten", reducing the need for Sage's to monitor their teammates and be actively healing.

 

Please give the other classes abilities so they can keep pace with the Sage/Sorc's heals. I am a dedicated healer and I want to be as effective as possible, but I have zero interest in playing Sage/Sorc. Imo saying that all healers are equal is a complete joke.

 

Each healer has their own strengths and weaknesses. The true potential lies behind the person behind the keyboard. I have seen healers that obviously don't know what they're doing as well as average-skilled healers who consider re-rolling because they can't seem to master the mechanics of their current class.

 

Please do not allow a few bad players make the class seem inferior. There are plenty of beast Operatives and Mercenaries out there.

[Damukag]

Each healer has their own strengths and weaknesses. The true potential lies behind the person behind the keyboard. I have seen healers that obviously don't know what they're doing as well as average-skilled healers who consider re-rolling because they can't seem to master the mechanics of their current class.

 

Please do not allow a few bad players make the class seem inferior. There are plenty of beast Operatives and Mercenaries out there.

 

The problem is that between an equal skill Sorc and Operative, the Sorcerer will always win. They have more and better tools at their disposal. Yes, a good Operative can do fine with what he's given. But take that same Operative and give him a Sorcerer's toolset, and he'll be doing more than just 'fine'. He'll breeze through this stuff.

 

Speaking as someone who played an operative first and is now trying out Sorcerer... it's light and day. On the Operative I have to heal a few seconds in advance at all times. I need to do triage. Who's taking damage when, who needs first priority on my heals. Do I spend this TA now or wait for them to drop a little lower so I get the below 30% proc from surgical probe? Is it worth casting one more heal and dropping below the 60% regen threshold for half a few seconds in return for possibly saving this DPS's life?

 

As a Sorcerer, I don't need to plan ahead for any of that. I have a tool for all of those circumstances. And not only do I have more adaptability, I also have more output (at least, for my level so far. From what I've seen, it doesn't drop off at all) and utility.

 

There is nothing a good operative can do that an equally good sorcerer cannot do better. Call me crazy, but that doesn't seem balanced to me.

[DubLG]

The problem is that between an equal skill Sorc and Operative, the Sorcerer will always win. They have more and better tools at their disposal. Yes, a good Operative can do fine with what he's given. But take that same Operative and give him a Sorcerer's toolset, and he'll be doing more than just 'fine'. He'll breeze through this stuff.

 

Speaking as someone who played an operative first and is now trying out Sorcerer... it's light and day. On the Operative I have to heal a few seconds in advance at all times. I need to do triage. Who's taking damage when, who needs first priority on my heals. Do I spend this TA now or wait for them to drop a little lower so I get the below 30% proc from surgical probe? Is it worth casting one more heal and dropping below the 60% regen threshold for half a few seconds in return for possibly saving this DPS's life?

 

As a Sorcerer, I don't need to plan ahead for any of that. I have a tool for all of those circumstances. And not only do I have more adaptability, I also have more output (at least, for my level so far. From what I've seen, it doesn't drop off at all) and utility.

 

There is nothing a good operative can do that an equally good sorcerer cannot do better. Call me crazy, but that doesn't seem balanced to me.

 

 

Im tired of you... you are a fool and your claims are false. You re-rolled sorc cause your a terrible player and you wanted an easy mood healing mechanic admit it. I re-modded all my ops healing gear last night and now Im doing crit heals on Kolto Injection for 6-7k if thats not enough output on healing then the dps and tank need better gear and more hit points!!

Edited January 26, 2012 by DubLG

[DubLG]

All you people complaining about the sorc aoe heal obviously have no idea how it even works. You read the talent description on torhead or something and think you know what it is and then proceed to whine about how much healing it does.

 

Here are the facts on the sorc aoe heal:

 

1) it has a 2 sec activation time

2) it is a ground targetted circle, which means anyone not standing in the fairly small area the circle covers get 0 heals from it.

3) it costs a large amount of force

4) it has a fairly long cooldown as far as healing spells go

5) the sage version is much better because it heals the same over the duration with a large upfront heal when cast.

 

 

For all of the other complaining about sorcs, they are actually one of the weakest pvp healers when focused and interupted. Every heal they have except for the weak hot and the shield either has an activation time or a channel time. If you focus and interupt a sorc his only option is to run away and heal himself, not his team.

 

Yes, sorcs do have a few ways to escape (stun, force speed, etc), but they are neccesary because the sorc also wears light armor which means they have the least amount of mitigation in pvp of the healers.

 

Poor mitigation + dependency on cast times = an easy target in pvp for a COMPETANT team to shut down. If you leave a sorc alone in the back, they can put out some great healing numbers, but when they are running back from their spawn, their healing isn't so good. Also, dropping aoe heals on voidstar and racking up huge numbers because of the design of the wz doesn't make sorc healing overpowered. Just because you saw a screenshot with big numbers on it doesn't mean anything, you should maybe think about things in context.

 

 

^^^^^ This guy right here knows what hes talking about on PVP and PVE!! I commend you sir my hats off to you for a great post thats full of truth!!

[alanisUDL]

Im tired of you... you are a fool and your claims are false. You re-rolled sorc cause your a terrible player and you wanted an easy mood healing mechanic admit it. I re-modded all my ops healing gear last night and now Im doing crit heals on Kolto Injection for 6-7k if thats not enough output on healing then the dps and tank need better gear and more hit points!!

 

He is actually quite correct. If you had the same gear and skill on a Sorc, you would be healing for more. I'm also an original operative that went Sorc due to the sheer discrepancy between them in PvP (both are at 50). It's literally night and day how easy it is to keep everyone and myself up.

[Damukag]

Im tired of you... you are a fool and your claims are false. You re-rolled sorc cause your a terrible player and you wanted an easy mood healing mechanic admit it. I re-modded all my ops healing gear last night and now Im doing crit heals on Kolto Injection for 6-7k if thats not enough output on healing then the dps and tank need better gear and more hit points!!

 

I'm glad you've managed to figure out how terrible I am from the fact that I dislike playing a gimped class. For the record, I still main my operative. I was just rolling a Sorc to see if they really were as good as most people are claiming.

 

Hint: They are.

 

Kolto Injection is supposed to hit hard. That's why it costs a good amount of energy and has a two second cast time. If you plan to heal 16 man operations just relying on an unsustainable single target nuke, be my guest. I'm sure your group will appreciate it. In fact, feel free to go ahead and do that right now. The rest of us, who judge healing based on what tools you have and how you use them, instead of just how big a number you can get, are talking here.

 

Edit: Did a bit of math, because unlike some people I enjoy facts.

 

Dark Heal has a base healing of 812-844 and a cast time of 1 second, before factoring in talents or anything.

Kolto Injection has a base healing of 1254-1317 and casts in 1.5 seconds (talented).

 

They have almost exactly the same HPS. It's literally only a 4% difference. Operatives are not going to have more single target output that Sorcs, no matter how high you're critting. I'm not even taking into account the fact that Sorcs get Dark Infusion at a 1.5 second cast time with Force bending, which gives them 20% more healing for the exact same cast time every six seconds.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Damukag

[LordIske]

Im tired of you... you are a fool and your claims are false. You re-rolled sorc cause your a terrible player and you wanted an easy mood healing mechanic admit it. I re-modded all my ops healing gear last night and now Im doing crit heals on Kolto Injection for 6-7k if thats not enough output on healing then the dps and tank need better gear and more hit points!!

 

Actually he is spot on with everything he says. Like I said in another thread I never really noticed any imbalance until I started doing hard and nightmare mode ops just how much better a sorc is. Everything I can do the sorc does just as well if not better. He also has tools I don't have.

 

Mercs/ops are indeed viable to heal all content. But its also a fact that a sorc straight up heals better. I am not saying they are "op" but if you don't think that there is an imbalance between the healers then you are just blind. I also think you realize that what he says is true but you just refuse to admit it and that's why you became hostile to him. They say the truth hurts.

[Eileithia]

Having strengths and weaknesses that equal out doesn't mean everything has to be exactly the same. I'd be perfectly happy with Sorcs having the best AoE healing if they didn't also have the best single target healing, instant heals, cooldowns, etc.

 

Instant heals? Cool downs? have you ever played a Sorc/Sage?

 

Instants:

- Force Armor (can not be cast on the same target for 20 seconds, and is down after 1-2 hits)

- WEAK HoT - The only reason to cast this spell is for the buff to your other heals. That's it, that's all. You can't rely on this healing anyone who's taking damage. consider it a buff. and has a 6 second cooldown

 

AE Heal: GROUND TARGETED. Oh Look.. I can heal everyone YAY.. If they all stand on top of eachother and DON'T MOVE.. Powerful yes.. Situational.. YES. Oh.. 2 second cast (Can't move), and 15 second cooldown, and if you spam this, no amout of sacrifice will keep you from being out of force because you'll then have to heal your self on top of it all.

 

We have a puny 1.5 sec cast heal which we never use (Force to heal ratio blows)

We have a large 2.5 sec cast heal (1.5 after blowing a GCD on the crappy HoT)

We have a channeled HoT which we have to stand still to cast, and is really your main spam skill because it's the only way to get force back for free.

 

Long story short. If you have to move alot (Think last boss in Directive 7) we have VERY limited healing. That's our weakness If we can't stand still for MINIMUM 1.5 seconds we can't heal. Realistically we need to be stationary for at least 5 seconds to do anything substantial outside of force armor, assuming we can actually cast it on our intended target.

[Sojella]

I honestly stopped reading this thread due to all of the QQ and Sage glorification.

Are Sages really strong healers? Yes.

If it's such a big deal, reroll already. Leave the classes like Sawbones to people that feel like maneuvering around the shortcomings to still put out the amount of heals required to succeed.

 

I'm sure it's been said, but the key to the Sawbones is mobility. Through Slow-Release Medpac, Kolto Cloud, and Emergency Medpac (2 HoTs and an insta-cast) We're easily more mobile than any other healer. I spend most of my time during Operations running around, using mobility to my advantage. On SoA in particular, I think that Scoundrels are possibly the strongest healers.

 

When we started, we would do the platform phase by stopping every few platforms to let myself and the sage get some heals up, mostly using the Sage's Salvation. Well, I've learned to maneuver my abilities and energy management, as well as relic/adrenal cooldowns, to keep the entire raid healed up throughout the entirety of the platforming phase. With Kolto Cloud as well as a few individually tossed out SRMPs, I've got rolling hots on basically the entire raid. Not to mention via SRMP UH procs, I usually get at least one or two Emergency Medpac insta-heals per platform.

 

Soa is just one example of when I feel mobility is key, Bonethrasher being another, though I won't make this post entirely long.

 

TL;DR: To everyone complaining about their class and glorifying Sages, go play a Sage. I'm not hating on Sages, though I do hate Flavor of the Month players that aren't satisfied until their mechanics are on top.

[LordIske]

Instant heals? Cool downs? have you ever played a Sorc/Sage?

 

Instants:

- Force Armor (can not be cast on the same target for 20 seconds, and is down after 1-2 hits)

- WEAK HoT - The only reason to cast this spell is for the buff to your other heals. That's it, that's all. You can't rely on this healing anyone who's taking damage. consider it a buff. and has a 6 second cooldown

 

AE Heal: GROUND TARGETED. Oh Look.. I can heal everyone YAY.. If they all stand on top of eachother and DON'T MOVE.. Powerful yes.. Situational.. YES. Oh.. 2 second cast (Can't move), and 15 second cooldown, and if you spam this, no amout of sacrifice will keep you from being out of force because you'll then have to heal your self on top of it all.

 

We have a puny 1.5 sec cast heal which we never use (Force to heal ratio blows)

We have a large 2.5 sec cast heal (1.5 after blowing a GCD on the crappy HoT)

We have a channeled HoT which we have to stand still to cast, and is really your main spam skill because it's the only way to get force back for free.

 

Long story short. If you have to move alot (Think last boss in Directive 7) we have VERY limited healing. That's our weakness If we can't stand still for MINIMUM 1.5 seconds we can't heal. Realistically we need to be stationary for at least 5 seconds to do anything substantial outside of force armor, assuming we can actually cast it on our intended target.

 

I don't know much about ops. But as a bounty hunter this post did make me lol a bit. This is ALL of my heals:

 

Kolto shell: Is a buff I can place on a target(only one person at a time tho) that has 10 charges and heals them when they take damage for about 400ish and is instant cast.

 

Kolto Missile: ground targeted aoe that heals 3 people for about 1k. Is not a smart heal tho so it can heal somebody already at full hp and can even heal vanity pets like the CE droid instead of a player. Is instant cast on a 6 sec CD. With talents can apply a 5% healing buff on the target for 15secs and when used with super charged gas also applies a 10% damage shield.

 

Healing scan: 1.5 sec scan that heals for about 2k and has a 9 sec CD with talents. With talents gives critical efficiency which reduces the cost of my next rapid scan by 16. With talents can also give a 10% armor buff and a weak 9 sec hot. Supercharged gas removes the CD when active.

 

Rapid scan: 2 sec cast with talents and heals for about 3k and cost 25 heat.

 

Rapid shot: when combat support cylinder is active allows rapid scan to heal targets based on your tech power.

 

Emergency scan: Instant cast no heat heals that heals for about 2k and has a 21sec CD.

 

And supercharged gas which is a CD that consumes 30 stacks of combat support and increases healing by 10% and vents 16 heat. Also gives the above mentioned buffs to certain healing ability. Last 10 secs.

 

And thats it.The healing numbers are approx based on what I do with mostly full columi gear and of course will alter based on gear and stats. Also some of the CDs will be lower due to set bonuses.

 

Notice the lack of a combat rez and a decent aoe heal? Notice how my class is designed so that in order to avoid overheating I have to follow a set "rotation" with my abilities rather than being able to chose which ability would best suit the situation? Notice how I share your "weakness" of not being able to do any meaningful healing while moving? Notice the lack of utility and variety of abilities?

 

You have now seen my full healing arsenal and I ask you do you really believe that my class is on par with yours when it comes to healing potential? I am not saying sorc/sage is op or anything but there is a definite performance imbalance here. Mercs and ops have to work harder than a sorc does.

Edited January 26, 2012 by LordIske

[Damukag]

Instant heals? Cool downs? have you ever played a Sorc/Sage?

 

Instants:

- Force Armor (can not be cast on the same target for 20 seconds, and is down after 1-2 hits)

- WEAK HoT - The only reason to cast this spell is for the buff to your other heals. That's it, that's all. You can't rely on this healing anyone who's taking damage. consider it a buff. and has a 6 second cooldown

 

AE Heal: GROUND TARGETED. Oh Look.. I can heal everyone YAY.. If they all stand on top of eachother and DON'T MOVE.. Powerful yes.. Situational.. YES. Oh.. 2 second cast (Can't move), and 15 second cooldown, and if you spam this, no amout of sacrifice will keep you from being out of force because you'll then have to heal your self on top of it all.

 

We have a puny 1.5 sec cast heal which we never use (Force to heal ratio blows)

We have a large 2.5 sec cast heal (1.5 after blowing a GCD on the crappy HoT)

We have a channeled HoT which we have to stand still to cast, and is really your main spam skill because it's the only way to get force back for free.

 

Long story short. If you have to move alot (Think last boss in Directive 7) we have VERY limited healing. That's our weakness If we can't stand still for MINIMUM 1.5 seconds we can't heal. Realistically we need to be stationary for at least 5 seconds to do anything substantial outside of force armor, assuming we can actually cast it on our intended target.

 

1. Force Shield/Static Barrier is probably the best instant heal in the entire game at the moment. It instantly adds ~4k effective health to any target you stick it on. That's far superior to healing. That means if you know big damage is about to come out (Saber Toss from that one boss whose name escapes me at the moment, for example) you can heal BEFORE it even appears. That's a huge tool. Add to that the fact that, talented, the only cooldown is the debuff, meaning you can keep it rolling on multiple targets if need be.

 

2. That 'weak HoT' has about the same HPCT as your 1.5 second heal, and is probably your most force efficient heal. Correct me if I'm wrong but base value it heals 446 instantly and then (talented) 51.2 a second for 15 seconds. That gives it 1221 total healing for a single GCD (as a base value). Only spell I could imagine comparing with that is the shield, which we can't see the base value of. Also it gives a 10% armor buff, which is huge.

 

3. Again, the strength of your AoE is that 1) it is the only AoE heal with unlimited targets and 2) Even if someone only stands in it for half the time it's up (which is unlikely, most of the time they'll spend a lot more) it still outheals both other classes' AoEs in that 5 seconds alone. The two second cast time means very little when the Operative's 'instant' heal still gives a 1.5 second GCD and then a 1-2 second buffer to wait for energy to regen. You may not think it's great, but it's really not hard to see that it's the best AoE heal in the game currently. Certainly the only one an operation group can rely on, unless they give Mercenary and Operative AoEs smart targeting.

 

4. Your large 2.5 second cast has the second best HPCT in the game with force bending, behind only your '****** HoT'.

 

5. Your channeled HoT does more healing over 3 seconds than the Operative's 3 second stack time (2 GCDs) HoT does in 18 seconds.

 

6. Reread points 1-5, come back with math or facts that refute them, then I will give credence to your claims.

 

Edit: Boss I was thinking of was Vokk on HM.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Damukag

[Eileithia]

I don't know much about ops. But as a bounty hunter this post did make me lol a bit. This is ALL of my heals:

 

Kolto shell: Is a buff I can place on a target(only one person at a time tho) that has 10 charges and heals them when they take damage for about 400ish and is instant cast.

 

This is your version of our Force armor. Mechanics are slightly different, but you're guaranteed 10 hits for 400, force armor can be down after one hit. Force armor is better at handling a huge spike, but this would be a good sustained HoT on a target. Different mechanic, but both have their strengths.

 

Kolto Missile: ground targeted aoe that heals 3 people for about 1k. Is not a smart heal tho so it can heal somebody already at full hp and can even heal vanity pets like the CE droid instead of a player. Is instant cast on a 6 sec CD. With talents can apply a 5% healing buff on the target for 15secs and when used with super charged gas also applies a 10% damage shield.

 

Why anyone would have a vanity pet up on a raid blows my mind. However, I feel this is somewhat underwhelming and could use a boost. Either increase the healing amount or number of targets. Either way it's instant cast on a 6 sec CD which means it can be cast on the run, and in reality our AOE heal outside of ops RARELY hits more than 2-3 people. You also get an added damage sheild which alone makes this worth casting.

 

Healing scan: 1.5 sec scan that heals for about 2k and has a 9 sec CD with talents. With talents gives critical efficiency which reduces the cost of my next rapid scan by 16. With talents can also give a 10% armor buff and a weak 9 sec hot. Supercharged gas removes the CD when active.

 

This is much larger than our 1.5sec cast and has the ability to be instant recast. Yes, our 1.5 sec is spammable, but the cost to heal ratio makes this extremely inefficient and you would be out of power after about 10 seconds.

 

Rapid scan: 2 sec cast with talents and heals for about 3k and cost 25 heat.

 

This is on par with our 2.5 sec cast (1.5 with HoT buff blowing a second gcd)

 

Rapid shot: when combat support cylinder is active allows rapid scan to heal targets based on your tech power.

Free, on the run healing. Sure, it doesn't heal a lot, but it's free and mobile.

 

Emergency scan: Instant cast no heat heals that heals for about 2k and has a 21sec CD.

An "Oh ****" heal, we don't have one. Force armor works kinda, but doesn't give back any health, you still have to cast another heal to bring hitpoints back up. That's also assuming we can actually cast it on our target (Wasn't on in the last 20 seconds)

And supercharged gas which is a CD that consumes 30 stacks of combat support and increases healing by 10% and vents 16 heat. Also gives the above mentioned buffs to certain healing ability. Last 10 secs.

This is like our HoT buff. Doesn't do much, but increases the effectiveness of your other heals. Yours gives "Power" back. We have to cast a specific ability after it to do that which is a 3 second channel with a CHANCE to proc and 2 GCDs to do so

 

And thats it.The healing numbers are approx based on what I do with mostly full columi gear and of course will alter based on gear and stats. Also some of the CDs will be lower due to set bonuses.

 

Notice the lack of a combat rez and a decent aoe heal? Notice how my class is designed so that in order to avoid overheating I have to follow a set "rotation" with my abilities rather than being able to chose which ability would best suit the situation? Notice how I share your "weakness" of not being able to do any meaningful healing while moving? Notice the lack of utility and variety of abilities?

 

I completely agree on the combat rez. Every class should have one. However, to debunk the glory of this skill, the combat rez can only be used 1 time every 5 minutes by ANYONE in the raid. It puts a debuff on the entire raid when it's cast making it a one-shot deal. It's not like you could have multiple Sorc/Sages combat rezzing all over the place. It's nice to have but not gamebreaking, and the fact the person that comes back has <10% health, chances of them surviving are little to none in a tight situation where this is usually used. Combat rez also has a 2 sec cast and if someone goes down it's usually a wipe anyway. The current rez is situational at best.

 

As to rotation. We DEFINATELY have to follow a rotation or we're screwed. It may take longer to go out of power, but we also have the slowest innate regen of all of the classes. If we don't stick to a rotation popping sacrifice and blowing a GCD to bring it back we don't last long

 

You have now seen my full healing arsenal and I ask you do you really believe that my class is on par with yours when it comes to healing potential? I am not saying sorc/sage is op or anything but there is a definite performance imbalance here. Mercs and ops have to work harder than a sorc does.

 

Our healing styles are different, and both have their strengths.

[Qoojo]

I've been sampling all three healers (32 smuggler, 27 Commando, and 18 Sage), and I have come to same conclusion. I know my sage is the lowest level, but that shield is quite good. I think I will continue on with the commando, and hope things even out. The smuggler energy regen and energy management gets on my nerves too much.

[LordIske]

Our healing styles are different, and both have their strengths.

 

And what "strengths" do I have again? You admit that every ability I have you have a counterpart that is just as effective if not outright better. Yet you have things I don't have(combat rez, force run, life grip etc) as well as having a more forgiving resource mechanic.

 

So again I ask what exactly is the advantage I have as a BH over a sorc?

 

Keep in mind the question here is not whether or not mercs/ops are "bad" healers because they are not. The question here is are they as good as a sorc?

[matthewcreech]

The only reason I play an Op over a Sorc is the story.

[Eileithia]

1. Force Shield/Static Barrier is probably the best instant heal in the entire game at the moment. It instantly adds ~4k effective health to any target you stick it on. That's far superior to healing. That means if you know big damage is about to come out (Saber Toss from that one boss whose name escapes me at the moment, for example) you can heal BEFORE it even appears. That's a huge tool. Add to that the fact that, talented, the only cooldown is the debuff, meaning you can keep it rolling on multiple targets if need be.

 

2. That 'weak HoT' has about the same HPCT as your 1.5 second heal, and is probably your most force efficient heal. Correct me if I'm wrong but base value it heals 446 instantly and then (talented) 51.2 a second for 15 seconds. That gives it 1221 total healing for a single GCD (as a base value). Only spell I could imagine comparing with that is the shield, which we can't see the base value of. Also it gives a 10% armor buff, which is huge.

 

3. Again, the strength of your AoE is that 1) it is the only AoE heal with unlimited targets and 2) Even if someone only stands in it for half the time it's up (which is unlikely, most of the time they'll spend a lot more) it still outheals both other classes' AoEs in that 5 seconds alone. The two second cast time means very little when the Operative's 'instant' heal still gives a 1.5 second GCD and then a 1-2 second buffer to wait for energy to regen. You may not think it's great, but it's really not hard to see that it's the best AoE heal in the game currently. Certainly the only one an operation group can rely on, unless they give Mercenary and Operative AoEs smart targeting.

 

4. Your large 2.5 second cast has the second best HPCT in the game with force bending, behind only your '****** HoT'.

 

5. Your channeled HoT does more healing over 3 seconds than the Operative's 3 second stack time (2 GCDs) HoT does in 18 seconds.

 

6. Reread points 1-5, come back with math or facts that refute them, then I will give credence to your claims.

 

Edit: Boss I was thinking of was Vokk on HM.

 

1. I'm not disputing that Force armor is useful. it's an incredible skill if you spend the points. However if you were to spam this on your entire group/ops every time you can you would be out of force in about 1 minute. Negating damage is extremely powerful, however it doesn't give back health. It's a stop gap on a 20second cooldown so you have breathing room to fill up the bars again.

 

2. This is actually only 9 seconds, not 15. It doesn't do enough healing over it's time period to negate incoming damage, let alone increase health for anyone being hit. Again, a stop gap to give you breathing room, nothing more.

 

3. Our AE IS powerful if it's hitting multiple targets. All of our heals that actually increase health in a fight (IE Healing being greater than damage taken) are on cast times, and we can't stack multiple HoT outside of our crappy HoT (number 2) and our channeled heal which leaves us stationary.

 

4. This is the style of healing. We try to stop incoming damage and take time to bring health back up, instead of stacking multiple consistant smaller heals on the party.

 

5. See #4 and #2

 

This is burst v sustained healing. They are both very different styles. Ultimately you'll want to bring multiple classes to any raid to get the benefits of all while reduceing eachothers shortcomings.

 

Think EQ2 with the Cleric, Druid, Shaman trios.

 

Cleric = Reactive Heals (Heal on hit)

Druid = Heal over time (Sustained)

Shaman = Wards and burst healing (Stop damage and burst)

 

You needed all three to be sucessful end-game, and I see this game being similar if not the same.

[Lokiliesmith]

1. I'm not disputing that Force armor is useful. it's an incredible skill if you spend the points. However if you were to spam this on your entire group/ops every time you can you would be out of force in about 1 minute. Negating damage is extremely powerful, however it doesn't give back health. It's a stop gap on a 20second cooldown so you have breathing room to fill up the bars again.

 

 

2. This is actually only 9 seconds, not 15. It doesn't do enough healing over it's time period to negate incoming damage, let alone increase health for anyone being hit. Again, a stop gap to give you breathing room, nothing more.

 

3. Our AE IS powerful if it's hitting multiple targets. All of our heals that actually increase health in a fight (IE Healing being greater than damage taken) are on cast times, and we can't stack multiple HoT outside of our crappy HoT (number 2) and our channeled heal which leaves us stationary.

 

4. This is the style of healing. We try to stop incoming damage and take time to bring health back up, instead of stacking multiple consistant smaller heals on the party.

 

5. See #4 and #2

 

This is burst v sustained healing. They are both very different styles. Ultimately you'll want to bring multiple classes to any raid to get the benefits of all while reduceing eachothers shortcomings.

 

Think EQ2 with the Cleric, Druid, Shaman trios.

 

Cleric = Reactive Heals (Heal on hit)

Druid = Heal over time (Sustained)

Shaman = Wards and burst healing (Stop damage and burst)

 

You needed all three to be sucessful end-game, and I see this game being similar if not the same.

 

You are a guy who does not understand healing very well:

 

1) Damage prevention is always, 100% of the time, better than an equivalent amount of healing. The fact that the 4k damage prevention can be applied to either a single hit or multiple hits makes it even better because taking 100 damage and receiving a 400 HP heal (say from an add) means you have wasted a charge of Kolto Shield, a problem you can never have with Static Barrier.

 

2) The HoT component itself is actually very good because not only does it provide one of the stronger HoTs in the game it also provides an armor buff. One with a 100% uptime. A 10% armor buff is a lot of mitigation for a tank considering most of their incoming damage is kinetic. In addition it procs Force Bending, which makes all of the other heals more appealing. The HoT is the central feature of the healing rotation. You're going to try to call it crap because... why again? The HPCT is high, the HPF is high, the HPS is higher than most HoTs because of the front load, and it procs not one but two high utility skill points.

 

3) Our AoE is hands down the best in the game. Most efficient, most healing, fastest healing, you can step into it after it's down and it hits the most targets. If you can't manage to land it on more than one person your problem is not the ability, it is the utter lack of skill from the players you are playing with. Doing Karagga/EV last night I can't think of a time I dropped it without hitting at least 3 out of 8 people. Sometimes as many as 6.

 

4) Yes. And because we have damage prevention and powerful, fast heals, we are easily the best tank healers. This would be "fair" (debatable, but it's a model others have run with) if we weren't also the best RAID healers. However because of the low CD on Innervate and the high uptime on Revivification we ARE the best raid healers. Best single target + best multitarget = best overall.

 

5) I'm looking at 2 and 4 and not seeing a counter point. The channeled heal does a ton of healing and other classes really have no answer for it. On top of that the CD is short (shorter with PvE set bonus) and it is pretty much free even before you factor in Force Surge.

 

6) You are wrong. You do not need all 3 types of healers, nor are all 3 even remotely preferable. Sorc/Sage has the highest burst healing. They have the highest sustained healing. They have the best single target mitigation. They have the most CC. They have the most utility. They mitigate the most incoming damage. Their class buff even synergises best with healing by mitigating the other two types of incoming damage that the armor buff misses. They have the highest base healing/resource pool if you are spamming, they have the highest rate of recovery if you get low on resources and they have the best ability to sustain their own resource pool.

 

Yes, Ops get more HoTs. Yes, BH get more direct heals. But the Sorc has the BEST, Most well rounded, and most effective kit of any of the healers. If you don't think they do we have been waiting all thread, PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, tell us which healing class has a better kit than Sorc/Sage.

[Damukag]

 

2. This is actually only 9 seconds, not 15. It doesn't do enough healing over it's time period to negate incoming damage, let alone increase health for anyone being hit. Again, a stop gap to give you breathing room, nothing more.

 

 

15 seconds with the basically mandatory talent. I'd think any Sorcerer would at least know that.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Damukag

[bobudo]

Dear Sorc/Sage healers:

 

We are not a threat to you! Stop fighting.

 

Us other healers are not asking for you to be nerfed - in fact, if you were nerfed there would be no effective healing in the game.

 

We're merely asking that our classes receive a little attention so that we can be almost as useful as you are.

 

We want to be able to do just as good a job as you; we want our hard work to be worthjust as much as yours. Is that too much to ask?

 

Thanks,

Op/Smug & Merc/BH healers.

[Lokiliesmith]

Please. Do not speak the name of the horned destroyer of worlds. The one you call...*gulp* "Nerf" is not some cute, lovable animal. He has tormented my people since the dawn of time. We fear him. Do not call for him.

[LordIske]

Please. Do not speak the name of the horned destroyer of worlds. The one you call...*gulp* "Nerf" is not some cute, lovable animal. He has tormented my people since the dawn of time. We fear him. Do not call for him.

 

This made me lol bravo sir.

 

But yeah I have no desire to see sage/sorc nerfed. As a general rule I support buffs instead of nerfs to address balance issues unless the class in question is like god mode op(and sorcs are not).

 

But the fact remains that ops/mercs are inferior in healing when it comes to sorcs. While they can get the job done that have to work harder to accomplish this. And while I like my merc I am growing tired of struggling to heal things our sorc healer just breezes through. I mean hell I don't even have a freaking combat rez as a healer.

[bobudo]

This made me lol bravo sir.

 

But yeah I have no desire to see sage/sorc nerfed. As a general rule I support buffs instead of nerfs to address balance issues unless the class in question is like god mode op(and sorcs are not).

 

But the fact remains that ops/mercs are inferior in healing when it comes to sorcs. While they can get the job done that have to work harder to accomplish this. And while I like my merc I am growing tired of struggling to heal things our sorc healer just breezes through. I mean hell I don't even have a freaking combat rez as a healer.

 

Regarding Op/Smug healing - the amount of healing done in pure numbers is ok. The issues - in my opinion - are more to do with the lack of utility.

 

The lack of shield - or any form of incoming damage mitigation - is the worse. We need some sort of synergy/utility buff added to our skills. We need something similar to extracate (maybe we could cast a short unbreakable stealth on players to wipe their aggro, though I am super jealous of the pull mechanic). Sleep dart needs to have its out-of-combat restriction lifted.

 

These are the things we need so that we can be just as useful as Sage/Sorc.

 

You'll note I'm specifically not asking for things to be easier, cost less, or give more energy/TAs. I just want to be given the same tools.

[Zellandine]

Regarding Op/Smug healing - the amount of healing done in pure numbers is ok. The issues - in my opinion - are more to do with the lack of utility.

 

The lack of shield - or any form of incoming damage mitigation - is the worse. We need some sort of synergy/utility buff added to our skills. We need something similar to extracate (maybe we could cast a short unbreakable stealth on players to wipe their aggro, though I am super jealous of the pull mechanic). Sleep dart needs to have its out-of-combat restriction lifted.

 

These are the things we need so that we can be just as useful as Sage/Sorc.

 

You'll note I'm specifically not asking for things to be easier, cost less, or give more energy/TAs. I just want to be given the same tools.

 

I don't even want the same tools. I'd be happy enough with other utility buffs that do something different, but impart an integral tool that is at least as equally useful.

 

For example, what about some sort of ability that redirects damage from the group to a singular target, and at the same time lowers the amount of damage occurring? Almost like an illusory misdirection. I can see an Operative doing something like that. Or, what about some sort of buff that raises defense chance by the Operative lending some of their cloaking screen to a nearby ally, thus making that ally harder to hit as they flicker in and out of visibility?

 

Just some examples of how you can have tools that make sense for an Operative to have without having them be forced to be identical to Sages/Sorcs.

 

EDIT: I did not mean to leave poor Scoundrels out in the cold, but I am, alas, much more well versed with the Operative. And another thought... A large part of an Operative's healing is done by small droid aides. What if they had a droid that could inject a player (or players?) with some sort of chemical/medical solution that increased that player(s) health bar by a certain percentage or flat amount for a limited amount of time? Just some thoughts to get the ball rolling.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Zellandine