I'm jumping on the Operative rant hear me out..

[riedeas]

I'd like if they nerfed the opener damage but gave scoundrel/operatives some sort of mobility buff outside stealth instead..

[SpaceJ]

Would love to know about this anti-stealth mechanic you keep referring to that sorcs have. You don't seriously expect me to burn my entire force bar casting Force Storm everywhere, do you?

 

And i'm aware of the rock paper scissors mechanic of mmo and have made peace with that along time ago. All I'm asking for is a chance beyond a 2min cooldown to fight back or maybe just even run away from a sure death.

 

As for the buff stacking, i doubt that will fix the OPs/Scoundrels issue - they'll just have to ue an extra GCD to make up for the extra 1-2k hp left.

 

 

It's not the sorc I'm thinking of it's the Assassin AC that can improve force speed with an anti-mez effect and get stealth detection as an innate ability. I assumed that's what he was, perhaps I simply missed it where he stated his exact class. If he is a sorc, well, all I can say to that is that he's a cloth armor wearing mage class. He's going to get killed by a stealth DPS class a lot. Especially since he's rooted by his own abilities most of the time. Makes it really easy to back stab someone that's not even moving. On top of that, he has an absorb shield that negates a lot of the burst damage I've got. He can simply keep shielding himself as I attack and I'll probably never kill him. I've actually had this exact thing happen to me.

 

Also I'd like to point out that the 'vanish' button you guys are referring to is on a 3 minute CD, reducible to a 2 minute CD. You make it sound like people are attacking, vanishing, attacking, vanishing which is simply not true. It's also the only real 'oh crap' button we get. If you think Medium armor is going to save an operative from anything without his vanish up and your resolve bar full from his Hidden Strike opener you're wrong. I might be able to get in, kill someone, and get out with vanish. But then I'm either sitting around waiting for it to recharge or I'm helping team mates. If I'm caught without Vanish up, I get toasted by almost anything. Also, smart bounty hunters spam flamethrower and really ruin my whole day. There are things you can do, like staying near team-mates, that really mitigate Operatives.

Edited January 13, 2012 by SpaceJ

[GotWooD]

I have a level 50 marauder with 400 expertise, after getting rolled by Ops by being knocked down and then critted for all my hp before I stand up I decided to reroll an Op..

 

My Op is 48 now and has 0 expertise and any Op on this forum who is saying they aren't op are delusional.. It is EZ mode compared to my marauder I just have way too many skills packed into 1 kit.

 

I have no doubt they will be nerfed... if they fixed the ability delay **** I would steamroll even harder then I do now which is crazy scarey to think about

[Stormbad]

I have a level 50 marauder with 400 expertise, after getting rolled by Ops by being knocked down and then critted for all my hp before I stand up I decided to reroll an Op..

 

My Op is 48 now and has 0 expertise and any Op on this forum who is saying they aren't op are delusional.. It is EZ mode compared to my marauder I just have way too many skills packed into 1 kit.

 

I have no doubt they will be nerfed... if they fixed the ability delay **** I would steamroll even harder then I do now which is crazy scarey to think about

 

Pic of 400 expertise marauder and your new 48 OP. Thanks.

[Hamchuck]

What about me? I'm complaining about my heavy armor, expertise, centurion/champion gear Power tech class getting killed by a stealth class. Where is your argument for this?

 

Shield and defense don't work against kinetic (or force, for that matter) damage, which is pretty much all of the attacks in the opening sequence. In terms of gear, armor is your only barrier against operative attacks and we have Acid Blade to remove 50% of your armor's effectiveness. Head to the Powertech forums. There's some quite a few discussions there on the subject. If you have an hour or so to spare, read up on the mitigation thread that's usually on the first page of the PvP forum.

[Mr_Gallows]

Again, you think I'm making up not being able to move or being snared? jfc, if u benefit greatly from falsy resolve system don't put it on ppl that are penalized by it.

 

And instead of fixing bugs you suggest nerfing... brilliant.

 

But yes as a BH and Juggernaut my opinion that it's mostly lies and BS... and some poor playing. I have no issues with Ops, snipers, scorcs or any other class. I'm playing the same game. Some people just need to suck it up and stop cruing about getting outplayed, outgeared and outlevelled. It's going to happend always.

[Vant]

What, do you think i'm making up not being able to move while having Force Speed on? If it works out for you that resolve system has hickups rather often, how can i play it anymore "right"? I've dotted op's and shadows/assassins just to never see them again - I was told that OP's can actually cure dots with insta cast - awfully convenient if true.

 

I play a hybrid sorc, mising gloves and boots from champ set and have a high 40's purple helm. Squishy as hell even with Static Barrier and 9% dmg reduction from expertise. Had an OP's wipe the floor with me the other night - saw him later on Ilum and he had 2 more champ pieces than me. He literally crtted me with taht stealth opener twice for 9.9k. Each time i used my CC break just to die seconds later either from vanish and same stealth opener or just other attacks that do 2-3k dmg np.

 

Also, i'm pretty sure snares ignore resolve bar it does at times when I use it and when i'm on the receiving end. So when an OP's can snare u with ur CC break down, it's game over.

 

Our knockdown doesn't count as a snare, it counts as a stun. Our snare is something else entirely and practically deals no damage. And yes, I think your perception is not reality. First off, the knockdown animation is way longer than the actual knockdown due to some animation issues, you can actually be doing damage back to someone while the knockdown animation is still going on.

 

I know this, Not once have I been knocked down on my Guardian and not been able to get distance immediately after if I needed. Also, I have never had my Scoundrel be able to land Dirty Kick directly after a Shoot First, not once in PvP.

 

Also, if I'm not mistaken Snares like Leg Blast do not effect the Resolve bar because in essence they are not Crowd Control, they are snares and function differently. Leg Blast wouldn't count against Resolve because the ability itself only slows the target, only when talented does it snare for 2 seconds. However, it doesn't prevent action. Therefore, it's not a CC.

 

I don't think you quite grasp what a CC is. In general, CCs are abilities that prevent action and debilitate your character.

[UjellyTrollicus]

i just got out of a game where a single operative managed to top both the damage, AND the healing charts, getting 70 kills, and only 2 deaths.

 

maybe operative/scoundrel could use some slight changes?

[Vant]

i just got out of a game where a single operative managed to top both the damage, AND the healing charts, getting 70 kills, and only 2 deaths.

 

maybe operative/scoundrel could use some slight changes?

 

Fraps, Screenies or it didn't happen. Tired of the rumormongering with no proof.

[UjellyTrollicus]

Fraps, Screenies or it didn't happen. Tired of the rumormongering with no proof.

 

i have no proof, but just because you don't want to believe it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

even if this was the most skilled operative in the world some of those numbers on that score board were a bit insane.

[Thundartwothree]

Played several WZs this evening, I counted one class from the opposing teams all night that was not a Sorc or an Op, at one point, I was killed mid force leap 100-0. Too much front loaded damage from these classes.

[Reenolols]

Fraps, Screenies or it didn't happen. Tired of the rumormongering with no proof.

 

These 4 screenshots are EVERY single warzone I'm in. http://imageshack.us/g/824/screenshot2012011312094.jpg/. I'm top damage every single warzone, rarely die, and will always top the heal charts if there's not a dedicated healer in it. (Sometimes i outheal the lowbie healers that do zero damage and only heal.) I play the objectives, so don't play that card. The class has to get nerfed a little bit; my gear is at the point where I can 5k fully geared 50's with zero buffs. I 3k every single gcd if I crit. I'm not a stuck up or arrogant guy, but all the Op/scoundrel players defending the class are just average players. Every class I play I'm the best, and I happened to get stuck with the class that has the most potential currently. All you people, it needs nerfed, why are we even debating this?

 

I will post screenies in wz's against the best competition my server has / against the other 50 ops/scoundrels if someone says I'm just killing lowbies, none of them even compare.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Reenolols

[Crujido]

Fight one who is geared out and uses consumables.

4.9k 4.5k 4.9k 3.2k dead

[Hayken]

Indeed, the people defending Operatives/Scoundrels are average PvP players enjoying the faceroll.

 

Everyone loves to be THE bad*** in PvP, and if class imbalance makes sure one is just that, then obviously, you wouldn't want it to change.

 

 

 

Seen an Operative crit 9.9k, take out the 10% dmg increase from expertise, and it's still a solid 9k crit, with a follow up of 6k! lol.

 

This was against a bolstered lvl 26, but again, we took expertise out of the equation.

 

don't believe me?

 

 

 

This dude even says so himself, that it's over the top, he hopes it get's nerfed.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Hayken

[Mackuss]

The game isn't particularly unbalanced from one class's point of view (though the Op does need to have tow things done to him: his burst pulled back a LOT, and his toe-to-toe combat brought up).

 

Where the game is unbalanced is the amount of buffs via abilities/consumables/trinkets/relics, etc. that allow you to DO that burst.

 

LITERALLY I watch fully and equally geared 50s one shot eachother when they have all their stuff popped.

 

That's just terrible game design.

 

The entire idea of Expertise in this game is utterly broken and *********** stupid as hell. Atleast Resilience from WoW, for the most part, its entire concept is to make you LAST longer.

 

Honestly, it just comes down to the stream-lined effect. Noone wants to die a lot, and quickly. It's stupid, and the game's going to fail until they fix that aspect of PvP.

 

P.S. It's funny that in WoW the game is horrendously unbalanced before level cap, but at level cap it's....eh. Could be better, could be worse, but it's pretty fun. In SWTOR, it's actually insanely balanced (in warzones against non 50s) before level cap, but once you get to level cap they didn't proportionalize health pools to the immense amounts of damage that the game lets you do.

 

P.S.S. It's amazing that your average Joe could have designed parts of the game better than this "professionals".

Edited January 14, 2012 by Mackuss

[fuzzyfelix]

Keep telling yourself that. They are not, any changes will be bugs and minor issues not working as intended.

 

When duelling any class against any class and NOT using consumables, both level 50 and similar gear, the game is so damn balanced that there is not a single class that stands out at all.

 

What an operative has going for him is selecting his fights. That said you must have some poor gear, be low level or really play blind folded. Yes Ops do kill me, but it's not the class I get killed by the most. Yes sometimes I am at half health and an operative kills me where I am defenceless... so what. I could do the same on my bounty hunter - the only difference would be the fact that I don't surprise him from stealth. End result is the same though.

 

People who claim to be continously owned by operatives of same level and gear while they have full health, simply need to learn how to play the game. I know I'm not magic, I wish I were, but I'm just an average guy not blowing a few deaths out of proportions.

 

I have no issues with ops/scoundrels or any other class for that matter. Some players do give me trouble sometimes, but then they may have a better gear and level advantage when I am or my alt or SHOCK, they could be better players than me. I don't suck, but I have met a few snipers I really respect, mainly because I've found the class easy to beat and then I meet a sniper who teach me a lesson... good stuff.

 

Simply put... stop being babies.

 

 

I bet you cried and defended slicing just as it was trampled just as the Operative is about to be.

[naniyo]

Have you ever lost to an Operative when you caught them unstealthed and they didn't have vanish up?

 

^^ exactly

do you know that if every operative is going to whine how many time they died without a chance in the world how many pages of that c.rap will we get, seems ops/scoun are more mature then any other whiney class player.

 

there is a lot of unbalance, the fact that you get another memory imprint with the defeat being on your face instead of standing and being zapped from 35 meters away by a sorcerer that does a ton of damage and kills you doesnt have the impact an operative/scoundrel has due to the on your face skill.

 

have you seen the idiotic scores some classes get in these warzones and they dont even have to stealth to do that? over 150-250k always, sorcerers doing 150-350 k many times with healing at 100k, bounty hunters doing always 100-350k damage depending on matches lets say best case scenario they are rediciulous

 

also force push, wth is that, the moment of using that skill for someone to float backwards then on his back takes over 6 seconds in total, the skill is supposed to be a 2 second knockdown...so once again these ability delays with animations, getting up it totals 6 seconds, and you cant even trinket the first phase of that skill which is the animation of you flying backwards which takes 2 seconds then you fall on floor 2 seconds and you getting up 2 seconds... lol still an awesome skill.

 

so on that note look here and see what other classes do and do better out of stealth even though they have stealth or camo. remember that operatives rely on stealth whereas these classes /assassin/sent/mar/shadow do not, since they do not have cooldown other then global on their main damage skills.

 

 

 

[Hayken]

^^ exactly

do you know that if every operative is going to whine how many time they died without a chance in the world how many pages of that c.rap will we get, seems ops/scoun are more mature then any other whiney class player.

 

there is a lot of unbalance, the fact that you get another memory imprint with the defeat being on your face instead of standing and being zapped from 35 meters away by a sorcerer that does a ton of damage and kills you doesnt have the impact an operative/scoundrel has due to the on your face skill.

 

have you seen the idiotic scores some classes get in these warzones and they dont even have to stealth to do that? over 150-250k always, sorcerers doing 150-350 k many times with healing at 100k, bounty hunters doing always 100-350k damage depending on matches lets say best case scenario they are rediciulous

 

also force push, wth is that, the moment of using that skill for someone to float backwards then on his back takes over 6 seconds in total, the skill is supposed to be a 2 second knockdown...so once again these ability delays with animations, getting up it totals 6 seconds, and you cant even trinket the first phase of that skill which is the animation of you flying backwards which takes 2 seconds then you fall on floor 2 seconds and you getting up 2 seconds... lol still an awesome skill.

 

so on that note look here and see what other classes do and do better out of stealth even though they have stealth or camo. remember that operatives rely on stealth whereas these classes /assassin/sent/mar/shadow do not, since they do not have cooldown other then global on their main damage skills.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Funny you mention all those numbers as if that was high?....

 

Guess you missed it, so I'll post it again...

 

 

 

Scoreboards in the end of video. (500k+ dmg)

Edited January 14, 2012 by Hayken

[Hamchuck]

You do realize that Eve-Online had ships that could cloak and then uncloak and engage you. I don't remember Rogues having this move either. Yes, I did read your post. Did you read mine? The one where I stated that a team of 4 OP's would blow any team of 3 plus a healer out of the water due to 4 people instantly dying due to that burst DPS?

 

You must not have met a lot of rogues in WoW, which I find kind of odd. In any case, the PvP is pretty different.

 

These are just (old) basics. I haven't played WoW in a LONG time so I'm not sure how accurate this is anymore. However, in the time I poked at WoW (2005-2008, then on and off after that), much of this was pretty constant.

 

WoW rogues have stealth. From there, they can open up on you with Cheap Shot, which stuns you and lets them wail their pretty heavy damage on you, or Ambush, with gives you a heavy opener damage but no stun. WoW rogues can wipe all dots except bleeds with Cloak of Shadows, Vanish to go back into stealth and do the opener all over again without worrying about a full resolve bar because that didn't exist. However, there were diminishing returns on stuns, so a player can't be stun-locked too often too long.

 

That said, part of the operative problem is that Hidden Strike + Jarring Strike is the WoW Rogue's Ambush and Cheap Shot all at once. As a rogue in WoW, you had to choose which opener to use. Evasion is a "combined ability" as well, in comparison. TOR Evasion is WoW Evasion (+dodge) + WoW Cloak of Shadows. The difference is that a player could still make them work the same way because we had access to macros. We could set up a macro to hit CloS and Vanish or CloS and Evasion. What TOR has done is remove our access to macros and just put the skills together that we would have used anyway.

 

So basically my only way to take on an OP as a PT is to use my stealth detection droid after every step in the hopes that I uncloak him. This doesn't seem very feasible in pvP...is this "L2P"?

 

It's perfectly feasible in PvP. You really can't say it isn't if you're not using it. My other half is a PT like you and he's caught plenty of stealthers with it. You should be using that whenever it's available. It doesn't cost heat and if all it does is take ONE stealther out of hiding, it's one whose advantage you've taken away.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Hamchuck

[NinjaScroll]

Learn to play

 

We always come back to this "L2P" catch phrase!

Really, IA are OP and something should be done about it.

Their burst is a big laugh ... but that's not the only thing that's a laugh in this game.

Mitigation, expertise, name them... many things are laughable/broken or maybe "working as intended" lol

 

The Lear 2 Play is getting old very fast, just like you guys...

Maybe someday, some1 will take that blindfold off your eyes...

[THorsblood]

I HAVE POSTED HERE, was interested in the scoundrel class since my Gunslinger had major issues getting into party's, ( not a healer or tank? ****, was what i got all the time) i think what you have to consider is that LORE plays into this game a bit...Scoundrels don't fight fair and flee toe-to-toe fights stuff like that... any way lets fix the buff stacking or w/e that gets old..

 

.also unrelated but did you know that if you pass the hutt ball to the other teams spawn zone you insta-kill whoever gets it AND you get the ball back? we got camped and exploited HARD CORE a couple nights ago...

[Vant]

These 4 screenshots are EVERY single warzone I'm in. http://imageshack.us/g/824/screenshot2012011312094.jpg/. I'm top damage every single warzone, rarely die, and will always top the heal charts if there's not a dedicated healer in it. (Sometimes i outheal the lowbie healers that do zero damage and only heal.) I play the objectives, so don't play that card. The class has to get nerfed a little bit; my gear is at the point where I can 5k fully geared 50's with zero buffs. I 3k every single gcd if I crit. I'm not a stuck up or arrogant guy, but all the Op/scoundrel players defending the class are just average players. Every class I play I'm the best, and I happened to get stuck with the class that has the most potential currently. All you people, it needs nerfed, why are we even debating this?

 

I will post screenies in wz's against the best competition my server has / against the other 50 ops/scoundrels if someone says I'm just killing lowbies, none of them even compare.

 

Ok, on those screenshots you were outdamaged once by a Bounty Hunter and there were Sorcerors right with you. So how is Operative unbalanced? To me, that is perfectly balanced if all of you are pulling off great numbers.

[Monterone]

Dont worry. Your not the only one. They are getting a nerf when class balances come.

 

I think it's funny that everyone says -- 'oh don't worry, they're getting a nerf', because it sounds like common sense, but has anyone actually heard that from a dev?

 

Maybe they won't get fixed at all. Perhaps it would be a better idea just to roll one and enjoy the easy mode.

[Dietyz]

Just wait till everyone is geared and you meet up against those unkillable, unkitable monsters known as sentinels Edited January 14, 2012 by Dietyz

[Reenolols]

Ok, on those screenshots you were outdamaged once by a Bounty Hunter and there were Sorcerors right with you. So how is Operative unbalanced? To me, that is perfectly balanced if all of you are pulling off great numbers.

 

Are you even looking at the correct name? No one is ever anywhere near my damage. It's not even close. I don't even understand this paragraph.