I'm jumping on the Operative rant hear me out..

[Evinac]

This is a lie.

 

The first attack gives you a FULL RESOLVE BAR, making you 100% immune to any further CC from anyone.

 

Why do you "learn2play" types always commit this lie?

 

 

Again, you think I'm making up not being able to move or being snared? jfc, if u benefit greatly from falsy resolve system don't put it on ppl that are penalized by it.

[Trews]

L2adapt

 

Seriously, this games pvp seems pretty balanced to me so far. You nerf operatives, then what? Better nerf sorcerors because they can blow you up at range before you can get to them...and thats not fair amirite?

And after that we can nerf the juggernauts because they take way too little damage, and thats not fair.

Better get rid of the cover mechanic too...and stuns....and stealth....and....y'know....on and on and on until all the fun and unique gameplay is gone so its "fair" for everyone. A nice communist fantasy world where no one is unique, and everyone is the same, so that no one feels op......ever.

 

Sounds fun..

[Evinac]

L2adapt

 

Seriously, this games pvp seems pretty balanced to me so far. You nerf operatives, then what? Better nerf sorcerors because they can blow you up at range before you can get to them...and thats not fair amirite?

And after that we can nerf the juggernauts because they take way too little damage, and thats not fair.

Better get rid of the cover mechanic too...and stuns....and stealth....and....y'know....on and on and on until all the fun and unique gameplay is gone so its "fair" for everyone. A nice communist fantasy world where no one is unique, and everyone is the same, so that no one feels op......ever.

 

Sounds fun..

 

Do enlighten on this adapt theory u got going for yourself. Am i missing a CC break reset? Or is there something else i can do to break a 2nd snare or 2nd cc when there is a a life expectancy of 5 seconds? get over yourself and this bs l2p garbage.

 

The fact that a single ability is 1. out of stealth 2. has insane burst and 3. places a cc on you is simply overpowered to begin with. The fact that you're defending that is pathetic in its own right, but hey, as long as once every 2 mins there is a chance a player may live an extra 10-20 seconds is ok though.

 

And this sorcs crap needs to stop. After a sorc uses his CC break they're toast. A third of the classes have a charge ability, second third has stealth and the other also has 30m range that doesn't need dots or channelled abilities to do dmg.

[Maurdiib]

Learn to play

 

can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.

[Maurdiib]

L2adapt

 

Seriously, this games pvp seems pretty balanced to me so far. You nerf operatives, then what? Better nerf sorcerors because they can blow you up at range before you can get to them...and thats not fair amirite?

And after that we can nerf the juggernauts because they take way too little damage, and thats not fair.

Better get rid of the cover mechanic too...and stuns....and stealth....and....y'know....on and on and on until all the fun and unique gameplay is gone so its "fair" for everyone. A nice communist fantasy world where no one is unique, and everyone is the same, so that no one feels op......ever.

 

Sounds fun..

 

So where does Resolve fit in, in this little magic-playhouse fantasy world of yours?

[Dreadspectre]

I'm not gonna say Ops/Smuggs are OP...but let me say this:

 

Yes, you get a full resolve bar from the knockdown. But what good is it when half my HP is gone by the time my character stands up. That's WITH using my 2 MINUTE break free. Then what? I play a Vengance Jugg, where's my 6k opener? Oh, I don't have one. I have a bunch of 900-1500 dmg moves that crit for maybe 2-2.5k depending on gear level.

 

I can CC them but they will most likely break one with their own break free leaving me with one more which buys me a few seconds and then THEY have the full resolve. Not enough time to burn them down faster than they finish what's left of my hp. It's not like Ops/Smuggs do zero damage out of stealth and it's not like they don't come with 13-15k HP themselves.

 

Add in combat vanish, other CC's to use once my resolve is drained(assuming I live long enough for it to empty.) The only time my Jugg has beaten Ops/Smuggs with HP to spare is when I'm in the middle area of Huttball and force push their asses into acid and choke them in it.

 

Too much Alpha on them imo, take some of it out and spread it to their out of stealth abilities, everyone wins then. Ops become less of a 1 trick pony and everyone else gets a chance to try and fight back somewhat.

 

Edit: I am a Valor 53 Jugg with almost 400 expertise. I am not Biochem FOTM, just posting this for credentials. I have been around the block a few times.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Dreadspectre

[FalmeseReb]

What, do you think i'm making up not being able to move while having Force Speed on? If it works out for you that resolve system has hickups rather often, how can i play it anymore "right"? I've dotted op's and shadows/assassins just to never see them again - I was told that OP's can actually cure dots with insta cast - awfully convenient if true.

 

I play a hybrid sorc, mising gloves and boots from champ set and have a high 40's purple helm. Squishy as hell even with Static Barrier and 9% dmg reduction from expertise. Had an OP's wipe the floor with me the other night - saw him later on Ilum and he had 2 more champ pieces than me. He literally crtted me with taht stealth opener twice for 9.9k. Each time i used my CC break just to die seconds later either from vanish and same stealth opener or just other attacks that do 2-3k dmg np.

 

Also, i'm pretty sure snares ignore resolve bar it does at times when I use it and when i'm on the receiving end. So when an OP's can snare u with ur CC break down, it's game over.

 

So you're crying about your light armor caster class getting beat by a stealth burst dps class? LOL. comon man, thats pathetic.

[Evinac]

sigh. ok i'll play that game - where is my guaranteed insta kill then?

 

[Edit] just asking for a chance to win one out of 5 or even 10.

 

Still though, stop defending an ability that is a huge burst out of stealth that is also a cc, lack of logic is unreasonable.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Evinac

[Vyron_Deckard]

I hope BW introduces an armory type of feature in the forums at some point - I'd like to see just how pro all the 'learn to play' posters are.

[Torothin]

So you're crying about your light armor caster class getting beat by a stealth burst dps class? LOL. comon man, thats pathetic.

 

What about me? I'm complaining about my heavy armor, expertise, centurion/champion gear Power tech class getting killed by a stealth class. Where is your argument for this?

[_Scattered_]

Their damage assist absolutely ridiculous.

 

An operative opening up on someone already getting trained is guaranteed kill.

 

The rate of damage is that high that operatives easily restealth before the enemy even knows he is there. No need to use a vanish.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

It does't even matter if he is weak after the opener when they are already 1 man up.

[Ashanor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfWx_mcAQBY

 

 

hmmm

 

I'm sorry, but it's not just operatives that are the problem. First and foremost, consumable stacking is the biggest problem this game faces. It just so happens, consumable stacking is even more helpful for a class that relies on burst.

 

My money is that crit came from that fully geared shadow.

Your money would be wrong, watch the video.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Ashanor

[ChaoslegionX]

You have a CC break and plenty of tools to keep him away from you. Just like every other class here. I have an operative, it's not all sunshine and rainbows for us either.

 

LOL realy you meen the cc break that has a 2 minute cd and the 2 stealths you have start in stealth oh he didnt die stealth again for finish you can do 80% of my health in dps to me before i can even get up from your 6 sec knock down

[Trews]

sigh. ok i'll play that game - where is my guaranteed insta kill then?[Edit] just asking for a chance to win one out of 5 or even 10.

 

Still though, stop defending an ability that is a huge burst out of stealth that is also a cc, lack of logic is unreasonable.

 

^this is exactly what im talking about.

 

If its that big a deal, go roll your own operative.

 

or,

 

l2adapt.

[Kellindell]

Have you ever lost to an Operative when you caught them unstealthed and they didn't have vanish up?

 

That isnt that often.

 

It doesnt matter how often they do it, any class being able to auto win with little to no effort is not ok.

 

The combo they use to bring anyone down is the same set of skills, no difference for a class.

 

Even in wow rogues would bleed high armor targets, stun some casters and open up with ambush on others.

 

In this game its the same basic combination to no skill anyone. That isnt right.

The cooldowns dont have a long enough cooldown to justify it.

 

So yeah maybe someone may get lucky one day and get an operative out of stealth after he just fought a few people. But that is by far any kind of balance.

 

Think about how many kills the operative gets and how much damage he inflicts per kill he takes.

 

Also lets not forget about the utility of stealth. You can guard a point unseen, stealth to the doors of the voidstar etc.

 

Its great CC, great positioning, great damage, and all the utility of stealth wrapped in that package.

 

People talk about the damage alone, but they dont think about all the other stuff that comes along with it.

 

IE- HEALING.

 

Anyone remember a wow rogue sitting back in a fight and throwing out spot heals to save a friend?

 

At least WoW rogues were "Selfish" and self serving, this class gets all this stuff and the option of healing.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Kellindell

[Ossos]

The issue is damage mitigation. It means nothing in this game unless your PvE-ing. It's broken, the mechanics are bad, the coding is poor (delays), and crying about damage when mitigation is the major issue is just stupid.

[Trews]

So where does Resolve fit in, in this little magic-playhouse fantasy world of yours?

 

In the fridge...right beside my homogenized milk....

[Stormbad]

Wow, people are so ignorant of the facts.

 

A: OPs always crit for 123123123123 dmg and insta kills me out of stealth!!!

 

Let's do some simple math so the sheep can follow the chain of logic.

Crit dmg = base damage + (base damage x surge)

Example: 1500 (base) + (1500 x 75%) = 2625 dmg (this assumes you crit)

 

There is no magic here. It is just math. Those seeing the super high crit damage have something called "stacking buffs."

 

Example: (1500 base + 700 (from using something to temporarily buff power) + (2200 x 175% from using something to temporarily buff surge)) x (9% expertise from pvp gear + 15% from pvp buff) = 7502 dmg (this assumes you crit and got stim and pvp buff and pvp gear.)

 

Obviously, this crit number goes up or down depending on how good the buffs and gear are but there is nothing inherently magic in an Op/Scoundrel that makes high crit damage exclusive to their class.

 

What the OPs DO have a benefit (and remember, this is only if you spec this way) is that they have a dot that activates at the same times as their opener so as they do their big opener, their dot also starts to tick which also get the same benefits of all of the buffs and temp stims.

 

B: OPs knockdown out of steath, I use my cc break and he cc's me again!!!

 

The stealth opener fills resolve bar to full. However, the resolve system is stupd and you can still get rooted by the 10m ranged 2 second root, although, you don't HAVE to sit there and pretend to be stunned while you are rooted. You can actually do stuff like... use a medpac, or knockback the OP, or stun/mez/root the OP, or use defensive skills... or you can sit there and pretend to be stunned when all that's been done to you is rooted for 2 seconds.

 

Also, animations are borked in this game. When you are knocked to the ground and use your CC break, DON'T WAIT FOR YOUR ANIMATION before you do something!!! You can do whatever you want and the animation for standing up happens about a second later. Test this. Have an OP knock you down, use your CC break then hold down W and watch as your character moves forward all the while slowly getting to his knees then eventually stand up.

 

Finally, resolve only protects you from the person who filled it. There is nothing stopping a 2nd person stunning you and making you claim OPs did it all.

 

C: OPs simply restealth and comeback and kill me in .00001 nanoseconds!!!

 

Ops can cure normal dots but they cannot cure force dots. Also, OPs go out of steath when damaged so throw down an AOE where the OP vanished or run over and do a knockback or do ANYTHING.

 

Summary: OP/Scoundrels do not need tweaking until they address stacking buffs and animations. And people really need to learn to play and especially don't pretend to be stunned when all that's happaned is a root.

[SpaceJ]

What, do you think i'm making up not being able to move while having Force Speed on? If it works out for you that resolve system has hickups rather often, how can i play it anymore "right"? I've dotted op's and shadows/assassins just to never see them again - I was told that OP's can actually cure dots with insta cast - awfully convenient if true.

 

I play a hybrid sorc, mising gloves and boots from champ set and have a high 40's purple helm. Squishy as hell even with Static Barrier and 9% dmg reduction from expertise. Had an OP's wipe the floor with me the other night - saw him later on Ilum and he had 2 more champ pieces than me. He literally crtted me with taht stealth opener twice for 9.9k. Each time i used my CC break just to die seconds later either from vanish and same stealth opener or just other attacks that do 2-3k dmg np.

 

Also, i'm pretty sure snares ignore resolve bar it does at times when I use it and when i'm on the receiving end. So when an OP's can snare u with ur CC break down, it's game over.

 

Again, you can negate what operatives do with points in your anti-stealth. If you're an assassin you also get two mez breaks instead of one. (Although it might only negate movement penalties instead of hard-holds, haven't checked.) Also, I've highlighted your problem in your above post for you for ease of respec.

 

If you're up against an amazing player, that does everything right, you're going to die no matter what class they're playing. Using the best player in the universe as an example, that did everything perfectly, is always a fail argument. QED.

[SpaceJ]

Wow, people are so ignorant of the facts.

 

A: OPs always crit for 123123123123 dmg and insta kills me out of stealth!!!

 

Let's do some simple math so the sheep can follow the chain of logic.

Crit dmg = base damage + (base damage x surge)

Example: 1500 (base) + (1500 x 75%) = 2625 dmg (this assumes you crit)

 

There is no magic here. It is just math. Those seeing the super high crit damage have something called "stacking buffs."

 

Example: (1500 base + 700 (from using something to temporarily buff power) + (2200 x 175% from using something to temporarily buff surge)) x (9% expertise from pvp gear + 15% from pvp buff) = 7502 dmg (this assumes you crit and got stim and pvp buff and pvp gear.)

 

Obviously, this crit number goes up or down depending on how good the buffs and gear are but there is nothing inherently magic in an Op/Scoundrel that makes high crit damage exclusive to their class.

 

What the OPs DO have a benefit (and remember, this is only if you spec this way) is that they have a dot that activates at the same times as their opener so as they do their big opener, their dot also starts to tick which also get the same benefits of all of the buffs and temp stims.

 

B: OPs knockdown out of steath, I use my cc break and he cc's me again!!!

 

The stealth opener fills resolve bar to full. However, the resolve system is stupd and you can still get rooted by the 10m ranged 2 second root, although, you don't HAVE to sit there and pretend to be stunned while you are rooted. You can actually do stuff like... use a medpac, or knockback the OP, or stun/mez/root the OP, or use defensive skills... or you can sit there and pretend to be stunned when all that's been done to you is rooted for 2 seconds.

 

Also, animations are borked in this game. When you are knocked to the ground and use your CC break, DON'T WAIT FOR YOUR ANIMATION before you do something!!! You can do whatever you want and the animation for standing up happens about a second later. Test this. Have an OP knock you down, use your CC break then hold down W and watch as your character moves forward all the while slowly getting to his knees then eventually stand up.

 

Finally, resolve only protects you from the person who filled it. There is nothing stopping a 2nd person stunning you and making you claim OPs did it all.

 

C: OPs simply restealth and comeback and kill me in .00001 nanoseconds!!!

 

Ops can cure normal dots but they cannot cure force dots. Also, OPs go out of steath when damaged so throw down an AOE where the OP vanished or run over and do a knockback or do ANYTHING.

 

Summary: OP/Scoundrels do not need tweaking until they address stacking buffs and animations. And people really need to learn to play and especially don't pretend to be stunned when all that's happaned is a root.

 

You, sir, have restored my faith in sanity on these forums.

[BDutch]

Wow, people are so ignorant of the facts.

 

Well this is funny, eat some humble pie.

 

C: OPs simply restealth and comeback and kill me in .00001 nanoseconds!!!

 

Ops can cure normal dots but they cannot cure force dots. Also, OPs go out of steath when damaged so throw down an AOE where the OP vanished or run over and do a knockback or do ANYTHING.

 

http://db.darthhater.com/abilities/1054/avoidance_training/

 

All stealth classes get a skill like this that makes their 1 minute cooldown evasion into a DoT cleanser that cures force dots. I've dueled my shadow friend and had him place 2 different force dots on me, both of which get removed when I pop evasion. His evasion skill removes my melee/ranged bleeds, despite the immunity saying its for force and tech.

 

Now AoE can remove stealth, but:

1) You must have an untargetted AoE

2) It must have the right damage type. This is where the immunity damage type does matter. If I pop evasion/vanish on my scoundrel and a sorc/sage does the baseline force knockback, it will knock me out of stealth. However, it will not knock another sorc/sage out of stealth.

 

Anyway, if you are unstealthing someone that is trying to escape then either they did not pop their evasion with their vanish (no GCD), or you got lucky.

[Evinac]

Again, you can negate what operatives do with points in your anti-stealth. If you're an assassin you also get two mez breaks instead of one. (Although it might only negate movement penalties instead of hard-holds, haven't checked.) Also, I've highlighted your problem in your above post for you for ease of respec.

 

If you're up against an amazing player, that does everything right, you're going to die no matter what class they're playing. Using the best player in the universe as an example, that did everything perfectly, is always a fail argument. QED.

 

 

Would love to know about this anti-stealth mechanic you keep referring to that sorcs have. You don't seriously expect me to burn my entire force bar casting Force Storm everywhere, do you?

 

And i'm aware of the rock paper scissors mechanic of mmo and have made peace with that along time ago. All I'm asking for is a chance beyond a 2min cooldown to fight back or maybe just even run away from a sure death.

 

As for the buff stacking, i doubt that will fix the OPs/Scoundrels issue - they'll just have to ue an extra GCD to make up for the extra 1-2k hp left.

[Gliese]

ops are fine. nerf stacking consumables.

 

if getting killed by op NOT using consumables, l2p

 

 

Exactly.....

[FalconDroid]

You're a PT. Are you flame sweeping to check for stealth? What about your stealth search ability?

[Torothin]

Cloaking is not the problem here. it's the burst dps that happens after uncloaking obviously.

 

So basically my only way to take on an OP as a PT is to use my stealth detection droid after every step in the hopes that I uncloak him. This doesn't seem very feasible in pvP...is this "L2P"? The same goes with the flame sweep which requires a lot of heat just in hopes of uncloaking him. So either flame sweep or stealtjh detection droid after every step. This is "L2P"? Anyone? Anyone?

Edited January 13, 2012 by Torothin