Vexas Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's only going to matter when end game content matters. People also don't want to be invasive, I really believe they just want to theorycraft/make sure their guild has optimum players on the one hand, or make sure there isn't someone doing absolute bare minimum in their flashpoints on the other. But whatever, this is a tough argument for BW to win no matter which way they go. Ultimately, if they are serious about supporting this game's pve, they'll have to have it. Something tells me this won't happen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeloDaoC Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 They dont want you to see the operatives hitting you for 10k damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korialstrazs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Seems a fair compromise. If anyone asks me for a copy of my DPS numbers i'll tell them where to stick it, if people want that information they should also have to take CC, interrupts and off-healing/tanking into account - but they never do. Anyone saying that people like me are just trying to hide our crap numbers is an idiot TBH, i'm a DPS but a damage meter doesn't say that i helped heal the tank through some spike damage. Sure it does, because recount also tracks interrupts and healing done, and to whom. CC is implied in everyone's job, if a top dps isn't using cc then it doesn't matter what their dps is. Honestly, the assumption that a combat log parsers sole purpose is to boast is ridiculous. I can be just as much of a dick now if I wanted, claiming that my sorcerer must be the highest dps in the group because that's what I read somewhere on some forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonAgeOrgins Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Shouldn't you be attempting to counterpoint my post Mr. "Back in EQ"? Or are you tired of being wrong and proving my points? You didn't prove anything. Everquest never had recount/add on's. What people are claiming they had parsers back then. If you will see only one person out of other's have said that. In fact they were not used AT ALL. PROVE me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Seems a fair compromise. If anyone asks me for a copy of my DPS numbers i'll tell them where to stick it, if people want that information they should also have to take CC, interrupts and off-healing/tanking into account - but they never do. Anyone saying that people like me are just trying to hide our crap numbers is an idiot TBH, i'm a DPS but a damage meter doesn't say that i helped heal the tank through some spike damage. Hah. Someone obviously thinks the only purpose of combat parsing is for "DPS". Have you ever used Recount or worldoflogs? You know there are things like <Heailng Done> <Interrupts> <Buffs Cast> <Damage Taken>, etc. If you are "helping heal the tank" and you were not assigned for it and nobody asked for it, all you are doing is gimping your raid DPS for no reason. Good players can top the meter while still doing everything that is required of them. Bad players do crap dps and then blame it on having to do extra tasks other than standing still. A good player loses only a small amount of DPS even if he's assigned to CC and etc. A bad player loses half his DPS and goes to the bottom of the meter because he sucks at multi-tasking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kserberus Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Good players can top the meter while still doing everything that is required of them. Bad players do crap dps and then blame it on having to do extra tasks other than standing still. A good player loses only a small amount of DPS even if he's assigned to CC and etc. A bad player loses half his DPS and goes to the bottom of the meter because he sucks at multi-tasking. Best Post i´ve ever read for a long time... sick of all these arguments like hurr durr i have to cc so i can do no dmg. I think the players with the highest dps are often the players that do the most for the group. Isee it by myself with my rogue in WoW. I can only laugh 'bout this load of BS that is told when it comes to recount and co. Edited January 13, 2012 by Kserberus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulkan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) You didn't prove anything. Everquest never had recount/add on's. What people are claiming they had parsers back then. If you will see only one person out of other's have said that. In fact they were not used AT ALL. PROVE me wrong. You're wrong. They were used. Google "Everquest Parsers" Lot's pop up. The one I referred to was Yalp. Which is from around 2001. There are many now and are used all the time. My experience with Yalp was when it wasn't AS popular, but it was still widely used in the highest tier of raiding. ( See Triality, Harmonium[way back in the day], and Triton.) Those are big names in the EQ raiding circle from all time frames of EQ's long running life. Edited January 13, 2012 by Soulkan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chosenxeno Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's only going to matter when end game content matters. People also don't want to be invasive, I really believe they just want to theorycraft/make sure their guild has optimum players on the one hand, or make sure there isn't someone doing absolute bare minimum in their flashpoints on the other. But whatever, this is a tough argument for BW to win no matter which way they go. Ultimately, if they are serious about supporting this game's pve, they'll have to have it. Something tells me this won't happen though. I think they will have a full blown Parser. Who wants to Raid in a "guess who sucks" model? The existence of Parsers makes not being able to Parse seem archaic and would only serve those that enjoy "False sense of Challenge" imo. I don't believe these Devs are so lazy that they are scared to allow parsing because they night have to put out content a little faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Done with the Clueless EQ with their selective answers and pointless rhetoric. I think I did a pretty solid job of proving to them how wrong and misguided their viewpoints are. I mean sheesh you guys couldn't provide me with a solid counterpoint all night. LOL For the people whining about "Cookie-Cutter" specs. The following things will expose your bad specs: Guilds that Blog(This class went this spec and suddenly the boss died) SW:TOR Armory(it's coming lol) The Inspect button. /wave The only thing you really proved is you are mean spirited and delight in finding out just how "bad" someone is.... Yeah shinning example of your demographic. Edited January 13, 2012 by Jett-Rinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 OR you will have guild leaders requiring logs to be submitted at the end of each raid so they can be reviewed by leader and officers. Thats why there is a /gquit feature in all MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chosenxeno Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) You didn't prove anything. Everquest never had recount/add on's. What people are claiming they had parsers back then. If you will see only one person out of other's have said that. In fact they were not used AT ALL. PROVE me wrong. It had a Parser called "Yalp". I believe one of your Fellow EQers pointed it out Quite nicely when he exposed you earlier:) OOOOOO look what I found: http://home.inreach.com/kai/EQCompanion/ Is this^ a Parser for EQ? No it couldn't be. EQers would never.... Edited January 13, 2012 by Chosenxeno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulkan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) You didn't prove anything. Everquest never had recount/add on's. What people are claiming they had parsers back then. If you will see only one person out of other's have said that. In fact they were not used AT ALL. PROVE me wrong. Also, what guild were you in? What content did you clear? Was any of it server firsts? Server-wide? Because if you were not in contention for server-wide firsts, you have no idea what was used. And before you respond, please understand that I know every guild that was in contention with mine (Triality) for the years I played. If you were a recent EQ player then you know that they use parsers all the time now. It has become a thing used by the majority of the population. Edited January 13, 2012 by Soulkan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hy_C Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Thats why there is a /gquit feature in all MMOs. This is why some people can never join good guilds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guided_by_voices Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Basically this. If you raid, you can't defend the lack of damage meters. If you don't raid, you're not involved in the discussion because damage meters don't impact your gameplay. PvE mechanics can necessitate damage meters, and even if I find enrage a joke of a mechanic, it's still one of those mechanics which you'll need damage meters to work around if it's proving to be a problem. not true addons effect how new content will be developed including 4/5 mans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guided_by_voices Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Also, what guild were you in? What content did you clear? Was any of it server firsts? Server-wide? even if and thats a big if they were used people seem to forget they were illegal! so if used them to get your server first they cheated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chosenxeno Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) OOOOOO look what I found: http://home.inreach.com/kai/EQCompanion/ Is this^ a Parser for EQ? No it couldn't be. EQers would never.... Tell me more about how "I haven't proved anything" DragonAgeOrigins. Please stop wanting this game to be EQ. It failed. End of story. Edit: Tell me. How didn't having parser have the magical effect of making a EQ "EZ MODE" mode as it's somehow managed to do in every other game that's not EQ? Edited January 13, 2012 by Chosenxeno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulkan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) even if and thats a big if they were used people seem to forget they were illegal! so if used them to get your server first they cheated. They weren't. I'm not going to post the EULA for EQ but the 3rd party programs that affect ingame client were illegal. Not parsers. And it's not an if. I'm telling you they were and are used still hehe. Edited January 13, 2012 by Soulkan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Haven't you heard the news guys?It's just a waste of time to try to argue logically with anti-meter people. It's just not possible because they don't understand the immense benefits it had for raiding as a team. Their definition of raiding is getting carried through outdated content by mean pugs that still booted them for underperforming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Oh btw, this thread needs to be closed because people are arguing pointlessly about something the OP misinterpreted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Haven't you heard the news guys? It's just a waste of time to try to argue logically with anti-meter people. It's just not possible because they don't understand the immense benefits it had for raiding as a team. Their definition of raiding is getting carried through outdated content by mean pugs that still booted them for underperforming. So what is your logic for Bioware agreeing with this group? And please don't hold back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPaq Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Good no recount for group. And you know personal DPS. Now everyone wins. No loud mouth in raid shouting everyone's number's and if you ask me mine. I'll lie. My DPS will always be your x 3.1617 =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Haven't you heard the news guys? It's just a waste of time to try to argue logically with anti-meter people. It's just not possible because they don't understand the immense benefits it had for raiding as a team. Their definition of raiding is getting carried through outdated content by mean pugs that still booted them for underperforming. Oh btw, watch this guys. Some anti-meter derp will inevitably quote my post and reply with "if you need addons to raid, you just sux" even though I am just talking about meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chosenxeno Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Oh btw, this thread needs to be closed because people are arguing pointlessly about something the OP misinterpreted. Honestly, I think they kept it open to watch me expose EQers. They want this game molded after a relic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimecat Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The people who'd lie about their performance are ridiculous. This is my first MMO, and I want to know how I'm doing. If I'm slacking, I need to know it and figure out how to do better. The only problem is with the rest of the group. A good guild would give positive feedback, help others get better gear and practice until they improve. Talking about "bads" means you're an ******, not a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zootzoot Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 not true addons effect how new content will be developed including 4/5 mans LOL. Yep...my Hot Bar addons and Unit Frame addons definitely skewed the difficulty of 5 mans in WOW. Please stop talking out of your posterior... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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