Setanian Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 i·ro·ny 1 [ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-] Show IPA noun, plural -nies. 1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend Was there a point? I'm sure everyone is capable of using a dictionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushia Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 When someone can´t do DPS because he is interrupting then he is bad. We are not all awesome players like you who can interrupt and do maximum dps at the same time But without kidding. I'm just saying that a tool like recount (which is btw not the combat log this thread is about) is constantly being misinterpreted by puggers. The result of this has been very unpleasant in a game like Wow. And for the people trying to belittle my opinion by saying I am only against it because I'm a bad player or whatever. I have played wow for seven years and I have been in the number two raiding guild on my server (not that it should matter). My personal opinion is that for raids a combat log parser is great, but for pugs it is not the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Was there a point? I'm sure everyone is capable of using a dictionary. The point is that you tried to belittle me for not being trusting of the online community... but you don't trust them yourself. Ironic, huh? Edited January 14, 2012 by Rasstavad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The point is that you tried to belittle me for not being trusting of the online community... but you don't trust them yourself. Ironic, huh? I don't see the irony, there was nothing sarcastic about my reply. You stated you don't trust players, I stated I don't trust the pro-meters players to use them constructively, as they have proven to my satisfaction before, they are unable to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) I don't see the irony, there was nothing sarcastic about my reply. You stated you don't trust players, I stated I don't trust the pro-meters players to use them constructively, as they have proven to my satisfaction before, they are unable to do so. You said "If you have such an untrusting nature, why are you playing an online game at all?" Ironic.... yes? ...unless you somehow think that all the evils of the internet are concentrated solely with the "pro-meters" group. Edited January 14, 2012 by Rasstavad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAlqui Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I'll have background combat parsers running anyways. Won't be able to lie your way out of that one, however much you want to. Most raid leaders would do the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Good start. When everyone can see it is when the game has officially gone to the Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fardarter Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 OR you will have guild leaders requiring logs to be submitted at the end of each raid so they can be reviewed by leader and officers. Where there is a will, there is a way (at least in guilds). I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. Its harder to gauge player skill in a game like this because everyone spends most of their time solo, at least leveling to 50. Back in the day, (like 10 years ago) playing everquest you spent so much time grouped with your guildies just exping that when it was raid time you knew who the heavy hitters were, who always played all out and who was a slacker. If you sucked you weren't raiding. It's different now because you dont have 72 people in a raid. Anyway guilds can do what they want, we have a choice when joining them if we dont like the rules we can leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaluria Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 You said "If you have such an untrusting nature, why are you playing an online game at all?" Ironic.... yes? ...unless you somehow think that all the evils of the internet are concentrated solely with the "pro-meters" group. What I find Ironic is that combat logs were asked for and now that they are coming the pro-meter crowd is not satisfied. That is ironic... getting what is asked for then crying about it not being good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I'll have background combat parsers running anyways. Won't be able to lie your way out of that one, however much you want to. Most raid leaders would do the same! There is not going to be a Public combat log to parse so good luck with that lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 You said "If you have such an untrusting nature, why are you playing an online game at all?" Ironic.... yes? ...unless you somehow think that all the evils of the internet are concentrated solely with the "pro-meters" group. Please read what you are stating. You flamed not to trust an entire audience except those in your friendship list. I stated I don't the the users of these meters to use them constrictively. Your's is a sweeping claim to not the trust the entire gaming community minus the few on your list. Mine is limited to a much narrower band of players. Try to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I'll have background combat parsers running anyways. Won't be able to lie your way out of that one, however much you want to. Most raid leaders would do the same! Why do you assume players will want to lie their way out of anything? if you approach me with some figures you gleaned from some parser, you'd be told where to put them. How do you know what 'most' raid leaders would do? Do you have any basis on which this claim is made? Fact is you do not so therefore the assertion is invalid and useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Of course there has to be an element of trust. If people are so untrustful, they really should just give up playing games with online people. This entire topic is a horde of whiners who don't trust other people not to use damage meters against them....when damage meters aren't even the subject under consideration. So clearly that won't work. There is absolutely ZERO chance they will put in combat logs until they work on the ability delay. If people could see their combat logs the howling would be deafening. I have always suspected this is the actual reason they removed it. Yes, people - they had a combat log in the game in beta and they removed it. If you seriously think it's because they wanted to spare your feelings from someone comparing your dps you are gravely mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaluria Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) This entire topic is a horde of whiners who don't trust other people not to use damage meters against them....when damage meters aren't even the subject under consideration. So clearly that won't work. I have always suspected this is the actual reason they removed it. Yes, people - they had a combat log in the game in beta and they removed it. If you seriously think it's because they wanted to spare your feelings from someone comparing your dps you are gravely mistaken. This topic should be locked and deleted because any discussion on combat logs is irrelevent at this point. Please clue us in on what the dev's are thinking because you seem to indicate you know more than the rest of us concerning the our feelings about combat logs or dps meters and what/why there are none in game now? Edited January 14, 2012 by Aaluria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 "Link your dps" "No" Link your dps or I will boot you anyways" links dps KICK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 This entire topic is a horde of whiners who don't trust other people not to use damage meters against them....when damage meters aren't even the subject under consideration. So clearly that won't work. Using your terminology the people against them are whiners because they state they don't want them. I assume you also agree, that those stating they want them can also be labelled as whiners? That is regardless of combat logs or meters. The worrying thing is, if we do, and I believe we will, get combat logs, we'll have people demanding we upload them somewhere so these people can sit in reverent judgement of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chosenxeno Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) I'm not even a DPSers. I Heal and i've pretty much been in here fighting for a meter. As a healer I am a blame target with or without a Parser. A Parser/ Meter would lessen the chances of people automatically assuming" i'm not doing my job" after multiple wipes now that you can better see: Who died standing in what. Who continued to DPS when they should have been interrupting. Who's not Dispelling that mark of doom. Who's AFK for burrito and not attacking. This thing is just as important for lessening the amount of blame for tanks and healers, as it is for monitoring Damage output. So I will keep fighting for it. People think that they get blamed too much and removed from groups? Try healing for a while. The level of Blame is on a whole different level lol I see a lot of anti-parsing/meters people just skipping over this. Please counterpoint this post. How does the above increase the size of ones "epeen", and why would it be wrong to remove a player if he or she continually does not perform a utilitarian task specific to their role? Why is it OK for my role to be instantly blamed when things go bad when we have could have proof that it's not us? How in the world is not knowing the above better for any of us? Why do you assume that only DPSing meter whores want this? Secretly true: Scrolling Combat Text have done more for causing wipes than meter watching lol "Dude I just crit for 30k.....Oh noes I missed my interupt while stroking my epeen and now i'm on CD can someone get the rest?" Meanwhile.... i'm praying I don't go oom because the attack he missed knocks everyone below 50% and the tank has a heal debuff!!!! Meters played no role in it at all he saw that crit via our old friend scrolling text^ Should we remove that from the game too? lol I wanna know when you guys screw up and make sure that the blame is laid where it should be. So ya Counter point me. Edited January 14, 2012 by Chosenxeno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 This topic should be locked and deleted because any discussion on combat logs is irrelevent at this point. Why is it irrelevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ortof Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Good no recount for group. And you know personal DPS. Now everyone wins. No loud mouth in raid shouting everyone's number's and if you ask me mine. I'll lie. We would gkick people for doing a recount brag in raid chat. I think this will be enough though to help everyone determine where they are. To those that think there needs to be more I ask why? I raid with my guild. If I am performing below my gear then "I" need to work on that. It is also my responsibility as a raider to be honest to my raid leader as to whether or not I am up to snuff. I want to see my guild progress so, personally I am going to be honest about "my" performance. If the argument for everyone to see everyone's numbers, then perhaps you should raid with more trust worthy people. Problem would be solved then as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) This topic should be locked and deleted because any discussion on combat logs is irrelevent at this point. Please clue us in on what the dev's are thinking because you seem to indicate you know more than the rest of us concerning the our feelings about combat logs or dps meters and what/why there are none in game now? They wouldn't have spent time and effort developing a feature every reputable MMO has knowing that the behavior of MMO players wouldn't mystically change overnight. No one in beta "changed their minds." Thus, there was a very good reason to remove the combat log - to mask the poor performance of their engine. Maybe they'll bring it back once the wretched engine problems are fixed (and possibly those ridiculous Empire > Republic mirror class problems) under the guise of "listening" to the community. Edited January 14, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Good no recount for group. And you know personal DPS. Now everyone wins. No loud mouth in raid shouting everyone's number's and if you ask me mine. I'll lie. Ah, I missed this. This is my point Setanian.... Edited January 14, 2012 by Rasstavad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I'm not even a DPSers. I Heal and i've pretty much been in here fighting for a meter. As a healer I am a blame target with or without a Parser. A Parser/ Meter would lessen the chances of people automatically assuming" i'm not doing my job" after multiple wipes now that you can better see: Who died standing in what. Who continued to DPS when they should have been interupting. Who's not Dispelling that mark of doom. Who's AFK for burrito and not attacking. This thing is just as important for lessening the amount of blame for tanks and healers, as it is for monitoring Damage output. So I will keep fighting for it. People think that they get blamed too much and removed from groups? Try healing for a while. The level of Blame is on a whole different level lol I see a lot of anti-parsing/meters people just skipping over this. Please counterpoint this post. How does the above incraese the size of ones "epeen", and why would it be wrong to remove a player if he or she continually does not perform a utilitarian task specific to their role? Why is it OK for my role to be instantly blamed when things go bad when we have could have proof that it's not us? How in the world is not knowing the above better for any of us? Why do you assume that only DPSing meter whores want this? Secretly true: Scrolling Combat Text have done more for causing wipes than meter watching lol "Dude I just crit for 30k.....Oh noes I missed my interupt while stroking my epeen and now i'm on CD can someone get the rest?' Meanwhile.... i'm praying I don't go oom because the attack he missed knocks everyone below 50% and the tank has a heal debuff!!!! Meters played no role in it at all he saw that crit via our old friend scrolling text. Should we remove that from the game too? lol I wanna know when you guys screw up and make sure that the blame is laid where it should be. So ya Counter point me. Well I'm against them. One example. Myself and another player were in a 2 healer chain. We (the healers) agreed to do a full/top type heal. She did the full heals, I did the top up. Later the tank and group leader wanted to know why my healing was less than the other healers. I told him what we had agreed and he demanded I use full heals. So I explained we'd run out of mana, he still demanded the full heals on a fixed rotation and time. Long story short, we ran out of mana and told him he was going to die. He disconnected but still died and we just sat there in amazement. He was so reliant on looking at his figures he was oblivious to everything else. Just one example where meters are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Using your terminology the people against them are whiners because they state they don't want them. I assume you also agree, that those stating they want them can also be labelled as whiners? That is regardless of combat logs or meters. The worrying thing is, if we do, and I believe we will, get combat logs, we'll have people demanding we upload them somewhere so these people can sit in reverent judgement of them. They're whiners because they don't want a feature that exists in every reputable MMO that provides only benefits because they don't like the behavior of OTHER PLAYERS. A combat log is just a tool. It was in beta. It was removed for seemingly no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felioats Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 I'll have background combat parsers running anyways. Won't be able to lie your way out of that one, however much you want to. Most raid leaders would do the same! Not if your client isn't receiving the data, you won't. What are you gonna do, haXx0r the server? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordNyxus Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 OR you will have guild leaders requiring logs to be submitted at the end of each raid so they can be reviewed by leader and officers. Where there is a will, there is a way (at least in guilds). If you enter a guild like that then /qguild and find a better one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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