What's my bottleneck?

[JNewell]

IMO try the RAM increase. It will be the cheapest by far and may improve your gameplay some.

But some of the other posters do have a point. People with very expensive computers are having issues. Point being- just because you upgrade does not mean it will run better, and may in fact run worse.

Thats why I advise to try a cheap upgrade, like RAM, before anything.

 

But one has to wonder why the work comp with an 8800 runs it better than a home comp with a 560? Does a gig or 2 of RAM make that much of a difference? One would have to question the game engine at some point.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Chevex]

Upgrade ur ram, but always keep identicle ram in ur slots. So if u have 2 slots buy 2 sticks of ram and replace the old stick. Also check ur mother board and see how much ram itll take. I reccomend ripjaws g skillz.

 

What do you mean by identical RAM? My mobo has four slots and a maximum of 8gb I think.

 

I already have 3 1gb sticks in it. If I buy a single 4gb stick and put it in the 4th slot is that going to be fine?

 

I would have 3 1gb sticks and 1 4gb stick for a total of 7gb of RAM. Is that alright?

[DeeckTator]

I'm running SWTOR on a fast SSD and it still lags in the Black Sun area of Coruscant and in pvp. This is NOT a hardware issue on any of his PC's - both are more than capable of running games fine and his home PC will easily outperform his work PC in *ANY* other game because the graphics are so superior.

 

I have 100+ FPS at all times, max settings.

 

InHell I5-2500k @ 4.5Ghz

16GB DDR3-1600Mhz

GTX 570

HDDS:

OS @ Cache: 90 GB corsair force3 550mb/s

Installs 2x 500GB in raid-0

Store 4x 1TB in raid-5

 

However I have this dynamic switching tech on my Motherboard making the GPU in the CPU work together with the GTX 570, instead of running there own monitor. Might give better performance. I have no DVI,VGA or HDMI port on my motherboard. Instead the 2 GPU's are supposed to work together.

 

 

LucidLogix® Virtu

 

Universal Switchable Graphics Technology

LucidLogix® Virtu GPU virtualization dynamically assigns tasks to the best available graphics resources based on power, performance and system load on Windows® 7 based PCs. It allows users to fully utilize the unique capabilities of advanced Sandy Bridge multimedia features alongside the high end 3D rendering performance provided by installed graphics cards. When no discrete graphics are needed, the graphics card is put in idle mode to lower utilization, heat, fan speed and power draw down to near zero, making the system more environmentally-friendly. For users with diverse needs, LucidLogix® Virtu GPU virtualization provides great flexibility and efficiency.

 

Universal Switchable Graphics

LucidLogix® Virtu's GPU virtualization technology assigns tasks to the best available GPU, allowing dynamic graphics switching between integrated graphics and NVIDIA® or AMD graphics cards.

 

And this shaite:

Intel® Smart Response Technology boosts overall system performance. It uses an installed fast SSD (min 18.6GB available capacity) as a cache for frequently accessed data. Harness the combination of SSD-like performance and response with hard drive capacity, that's 4X faster than a HDD-only system.

Edited January 12, 2012 by DeeckTator

[LionRampant]

It doesn't matter. The PC that runs the problem area smoothly is a working model that can be emulated. If I built a second PC with the exact same specs as my work PC then the problem area would still run smooth on the second PC. That means that my working model is duplicatable. It's not magic. So if I get my home specs as close to the specs of the working model then I will hopefully be able to also run the problem area smooth as butter.

 

Make sense? Or are you really that dense? I'm not saying BW can't fix the area to make it run better on more machines. I'm simply saying that whatever crappy performance issues BW designed into that area aren't manifesting on my work PC because it is beefy enough in some area to mitigate the problem.

 

I'm done arguing. If you're tiny brain can't understand simply logic then there is no point in arguing. Arguing with stupid people is like getting stuck in a never-ending loop of circular logic.

 

You just don't get that I'm actually trying to help you. Have you read the 500-page performance issues threads in customer service?

 

Don't believe for a second that even the EXACT same PC will perform EXACTLY the same. You get ability lag in that area too - it might actually be an ISP issue or something else entirely unrelated to hardware. It could have been a windows download or anything but don't take my word for it - go ahead and spend a fortune on a new PC just to find it still runs like crap - there are plenty of people in other threads who have monster PC's and still find the game runs like crap on it.

[Chevex]

IMO try the RAM increase. It will be the cheapest by far and may improve your gameplay some.

But some of the other posters do have a point. People with very expensive computers are having issues. Point being- just because you upgrade does not mean it will run better, and may in fact run worse.

Thats why I advise to try a cheap upgrade, like RAM, before anything.

 

But one has to wonder why the work comp with an 8800 runs it better than a home comp with a 560? Does a gig or 2 of RAM make that much of a difference? One would have to question the game engine at some point.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

I understand that very well. But there is nothing wrong with identifying bottlenecks by comparing two PCs. If I upgrade my RAM and it still runs crappy then what's the harm? The game has an issue and I have more delicious RAM. That's the point I've been trying to get across to people.

[JNewell]

It doesn't matter. The PC that runs the problem area smoothly is a working model that can be emulated. If I built a second PC with the exact same specs as my work PC then the problem area would still run smooth on the second PC. That means that my working model is duplicatable. It's not magic. So if I get my home specs as close to the specs of the working model then I will hopefully be able to also run the problem area smooth as butter.

 

Make sense? Or are you really that dense? I'm not saying BW can't fix the area to make it run better on more machines. I'm simply saying that whatever crappy performance issues BW designed into that area aren't manifesting on my work PC because it is beefy enough in some area to mitigate the problem.

 

I'm done arguing. If you're tiny brain can't understand simple logic then there is no point in arguing. Arguing with stupid people is like getting stuck in a never-ending loop of circular logic.

 

Actually you could build an exact replica of your work computer and get different performance on each machine. I think that is his point. Even getting the exact same parts, same OS, RAM, ect will run things differently.

Alot of this is the engine. My computer runs it just fine, but people with computers that eat mine for lunch have worse performance.

The logic of " lets emulate the work comp for performance" is flawed at best.

No offense meant and I hope that came across as constructive =)

[Chevex]

You just don't get that I'm actually trying to help you. Have you read the 500-page performance issues threads in customer service?

 

Don't believe for a second that even the EXACT same PC will perform EXACTLY the same. You get ability lag in that area too - it might actually be an ISP issue or something else entirely unrelated to hardware. It could have been a windows download or anything but don't take my word for it - go ahead and spend a fortune on a new PC just to find it still runs like crap - there are plenty of people in other threads who have monster PC's and still find the game runs like crap on it.

 

Actually you could build an exact replica of your work computer and get different performance on each machine. I think that is his point. Even getting the exact same parts, same OS, RAM, ect will run things differently.

Alot of this is the engine. My computer runs it just fine, but people with computers that eat mine for lunch have worse performance.

The logic of " lets emulate the work comp for performance" is flawed at best.

No offense meant and I hope that came across as constructive =)

 

You are wrong. My office has five identical PCs and two of my coworkers have installed the game. We all quested on Coruscant together and we were all smooth in the same area. That's how I know it works on these specs. So yes, I believe for many seconds that the exact same PC performs exactly the same.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Chevex

[MillionsKNives]

You just don't get that I'm actually trying to help you. Have you read the 500-page performance issues threads in customer service?

 

Don't believe for a second that even the EXACT same PC will perform EXACTLY the same. You get ability lag in that area too - it might actually be an ISP issue or something else entirely unrelated to hardware. It could have been a windows download or anything but don't take my word for it - go ahead and spend a fortune on a new PC just to find it still runs like crap - there are plenty of people in other threads who have monster PC's and still find the game runs like crap on it.

 

But you're assuming that's the only or the most likely cause of his poor gameplay. Getting better RAM and a better CPU is a good idea for him to improve performance, whether the fps issue is at play here or not.

[Eboo-Kauri]

What do you mean by identical RAM? My mobo has four slots and a maximum of 8gb I think.

 

I already have 3 1gb sticks in it. If I buy a single 4gb stick and put it in the 4th slot is that going to be fine?

 

I would have 3 1gb sticks and 1 4gb stick for a total of 7gb of RAM. Is that alright?

 

Different ram gas different freqencies that run slower or fastsr. Think of it like a heavy trafic road with a lier or or higher speed limit. Ifen though u might get 7gb all together the computer may still be utilizing one of the other sticks with a "loer speed lumit" therefore its still archiving and acessing the info more slowly. If you match ur sticks you do away with this problem. Also of ur using 1gb sticks theyre prolly older a.nd slower.

[Chevex]

Different ram gas different freqencies that run slower or fastsr. Think of it like a heavy trafic road with a lier or or higher speed limit. Ifen though u might get 7gb all together the computer may still be utilizing one of the other sticks with a "loer speed lumit" therefore its still archiving and acessing the info more slowly. If you match ur sticks you do away with this problem. Also of ur using 1gb sticks theyre prolly older a.nd slower.

 

Hmmm, so you think it's a bad idea to get a newer 4gb stick and simply put it in the empty slot?

[_Contagion_]

If the problem is indeed a pure performance bottleneck, I agree that its most likely to be in the amount of ram. With the cost of ram right now, it's a fairly easy upgrade which wouldn't be a bad idea regardless of whether or not you're playing this game.

 

If it's not a hardware bottleneck, it's probably one of two things: Firmware/driver bugs from device manufacturers, or software bugs in either SWTOR or DirectX (or other APIs in use).

 

People claiming that it's TOR for sure COULD be correct, but it's not a systemic problem as many don't have problems at all, therefore it's more likely be system based, ie. drivers and firmware. That would explain why "identical" systems have varying results. Even identical machines bought at the same time could have different firmware or bios revisions based on how long they've been sitting in stock whereever they were purchased from.

 

It's entirely possible that there are driver bugs with ati/nvidia (or even audio devices!) that could have performance implications. Those issues MAY have been fixed in recent driver updates, and may not be fixed until SWTOR devs isolate them and let the chipset vendors know there's an issue.

 

At least updating drivers and firmware is free. So do that first.

[LionRampant]

Hmmm, so you think it's a bad idea to get a newer 4gb stick and simply put it in the empty slot?

 

Yes that's a bad idea. You'd be better off getting a 4GB stick and throwing the 3x1GB sticks away.

 

I can assure you though, you will see no difference in the games performance. I have 4GB, I have the EXACT same problem you have in Black Sun. If it's a RAM problem then why would it work for you and not me?

[JNewell]

You are wrong. My office has five identical PCs and two of my coworkers have installed the game. We all quested on Coruscant together and we were all smooth in the same area. That's how I know it works on these specs. So yes, I believe for many seconds that the exact same PC performs exactly the same.

 

I am sure it does work fine on those PCs. But the game should work fine for the guys with 16gb RAM, 2x580 in sli and an I7 @ 4.7ghz, ect.

I wish you the best and hope it runs smooth for you.

IMO do a cheap upgrade of RAM, see how that goes. IF you are not satisfied then upgrade other stuff. Having a better computer is never a bad idea, but upgrading for TOR may not yield you the results you desire. Go check out some of the other threads about performance issues.

If nothing else its a good read while at work.

 

Anyways good luck man

[Valkirus]

its the game, not your machine. don't waste your money upgrading for this game.

 

i've got a

 

i7 3970k

32gb ram

ati 6970

256 gb ssd agility 3.

 

i get stutter and 30 fps.

 

Odd. I have a I7 2600, 10 GB ram and a ATI Radeon 6850 and a slow 5400 rpm drive and I donot experence the "stuttering" you do. Settings on high/mid.

 

I think the OP's bottle neck at his home computer is his CPU and Low ram...esp if he running something else in the background as he is playing TOR.

[Chevex]

I am sure it does work fine on those PCs. But the game should work fine for the guys with 16gb RAM, 2x580 in sli and an I7 @ 4.7ghz, ect.

I wish you the best and hope it runs smooth for you.

IMO do a cheap upgrade of RAM, see how that goes. IF you are not satisfied then upgrade other stuff. Having a better computer is never a bad idea, but upgrading for TOR may not yield you the results you desire. Go check out some of the other threads about performance issues.

If nothing else its a good read while at work.

 

Anyways good luck man

 

You know what. Best Buy is right down the street. I will go pick up some RAM and plug it in. We'll see what happens and I'll update the thread in an hour or two. If it doesn't help then so be it, but I would like to know for certain.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Chevex

[MillionsKNives]

Hmmm, so you think it's a bad idea to get a newer 4gb stick and simply put it in the empty slot?

 

If you have 4 slots it's always best to put matching sticks in pairs.

 

So if you have two sticks you would want to place them as follows:

[X] [ ] [X] [ ] or

 

[ ] [X] [ ] [X]

 

some motherboards will color code the paired slots.

 

I don't have much experience with mismatched sets of RAM but it might be more beneficial to remove one of the sticks and leave the 4GB unpaired.

[Eboo-Kauri]

Hmmm, so you think it's a bad idea to get a newer 4gb stick and simply put it in the empty slot?

 

Buy 2 4gb sticks or 4 2gb sticks with the highest frequency u can. Always check ur motherboard for specs before upgrading ram. Check for a gb max and make sure the speed will be ok. You shouldnt need to worry about timing if u see that spec.

[Chevex]

If you have 4 slots it's always best to put matching sticks in pairs.

 

So if you have two sticks you would want to place them as follows:

[X] [ ] [X] [ ] or

 

[ ] [X] [ ] [X]

 

some motherboards will color code the paired slots.

 

I don't have much experience with mismatched sets of RAM but it might be more beneficial to remove one of the sticks and leave the 4GB unpaired.

 

Interesting. I'll play around with it. That's good to know.

[JNewell]

Just to add.

either get matching sticks or RAM- 2x4g sticks, or one single stick 1x4g and put in there.

I personally would not put a 4g with 3x1g.

While i think the new RAM would default to the slowest sticks settings, that may cause problems in itself.

[_Contagion_]

Even getting the exact same parts, same OS, RAM, ect will run things differently. Alot of this is the engine.

 

This is the interesting about this problem. And it SCREAMS drivers/firmware of the hardware, or other applications in memory. Computers are deterministic so you can't just say "bad engine" unless you're suggesting they built randomness of performance into the engine.

 

And not just true randomness... one set of hardware is ALWAYS good and one set is ALWAYS bad. So the random performance degredation method must be tied to hardware IDs of the machine.

[SpyderBite]

its the game, not your machine. don't waste your money upgrading for this game.

 

i've got a

 

i7 3970k

32gb ram

ati 6970

256 gb ssd agility 3.

 

i get stutter and 30 fps.

 

That's your machine.. not the game. I have basically the same system with half the RAM as you and I get flawless fps at the highest graphics settings.

[Tripleforce]

Yes that's a bad idea. You'd be better off getting a 4GB stick and throwing the 3x1GB sticks away.

 

I can assure you though, you will see no difference in the games performance. I have 4GB, I have the EXACT same problem you have in Black Sun. If it's a RAM problem then why would it work for you and not me?

 

I'd have to agree. 2gb of ram is a bottleneck but 3 is usually fine. I'm running 2 sticks of 2gb DDR3 ram in dual channel and my ram definitely isn't a bottleneck cause the game runs smoothly.

 

I'd say your bottleneck is your processor (if there is a bottleneck...), which you didn't specify in your main post. If it's an old quad core it's likely the culprit, cause more cores doesn't necessarily equal better performance

 

For instance my Core i3 540 with 2 cores will run the game better than a Phenom 4 core AM2+ from 2008/9 because it has better technology.

 

You might also have a different driver or software related issue because even with an outdated 4 core you still should be getting pretty good performance regardless...

[Eboo-Kauri]

You know what. Best Buy is right down the street. I will go pick up some RAM and plug it in. We'll see what happens and I'll update the thread in an hour or two. If it doesn't help then so be it, but I would like to know for certain.

 

Never buy ram from best buy ill pm u when I get home from work in about 45 mins

[DeeckTator]

Yes that's a bad idea. You'd be better off getting a 4GB stick and throwing the 3x1GB sticks away.

 

I can assure you though, you will see no difference in the games performance. I have 4GB, I have the EXACT same problem you have in Black Sun. If it's a RAM problem then why would it work for you and not me?

 

Memory is so cheap today they practicly pay you to take it off their hands.

 

Get a set of 2x 4GB modules, or even 4X 4GB like I did, since it's so cheap.

 

$120-140 for 16GB Corsair Dominator DHX 1600Mhz XMP, with fan bracket for mem. I haven't installed it and my mem is doing just fine, even when I overclocked 4 DIMMS from 1600 to 1700.

[DeeckTator]

I am sure it does work fine on those PCs. But the game should work fine for the guys with 16gb RAM, 2x580 in sli and an I7 @ 4.7ghz, ect.

I wish you the best and hope it runs smooth for you.

IMO do a cheap upgrade of RAM, see how that goes. IF you are not satisfied then upgrade other stuff. Having a better computer is never a bad idea, but upgrading for TOR may not yield you the results you desire. Go check out some of the other threads about performance issues.

If nothing else its a good read while at work.

 

Anyways good luck man

 

Then there is something seriously wrong with your system. Coz my game runs like a motherf... on a worse comp, never under 100 FPS.

 

Many games have problems with the I7 though coz of hyper threading. Each core is simulated as 2 cores, thus reduced speed. And even in a threaded environmenr, many times all the other cores actually have to wait for a calculation to be complete in a single core before they can thread the rest.

So I5 is in most cases a faster CPU for gaming than a I7. While the I7 would performe better in a Windows srv 2008 system handling background tasks.

Edited January 12, 2012 by DeeckTator