Devorin_Sargothi Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Come on man... You talk like we're dealing with people who respect other's choices and stuff. Do you honestly think if there's a group that just happens to wipe on a boss for WHATEVER reason (could be bad luck) that someone is NOT gonna point blame to the person who isn't sharing their combat log? We've already seen it in this thread. "What you trying to hide, you must be bad." People claim they want a combat log to see THEIR progress yet they want it shared so they can see other's combat log. How does that help YOU improve YOUR rotation? How does that help YOU know if this piece of gear is better than that? I just wish people would just be honest and say they want to show off or exclude anytone THEY feel isn't performing. Now that I think about it, I think I fully respect someone's choice to play this way. Similarly, my choice to not join a group should also be respected. The problem is that someone might misrepresent themselves, and take advantage of an unknowing group. Shared combat logs would prevent this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Philistine. Ha! +1 Internets Ms. Cranberries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranberries Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 happened long before combat logs and would continue without them. So sad that so many people do not want to play the game without help. Philistine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GawdoOo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 While I'm disappointed in a private only combat log. If it is a true log (log file on pc) it will just evolve into parsers that can link the group together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 happened long before combat logs and would continue without them. This is true, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanLightwalker Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I said it in an earlier post, let us have a combat log and personal dps meter. So that people can judge their performance for them selves. Just don't make it spammable in chat. That will just lead to problems. But a personal dps meter or chart will allow people to see how they are doing and tweak their rotation or abilities. But sides would benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just don't make it spammable in chat. That will just lead to problems. Can someone explain this to me? Are you going to mute everyone in their raid, so they can't say "wow my last backstab just did 9001 damage" (already happened to me once) or "woah this meter says I'm doing over nine thousand DPS" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashphael Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I for one have been raiding in four MMOs, I've been DPS, Maintank, Healer, occasionally Raidlead... ...and I really like the fact that there's an MMO that does not have any form of combatmeter or -log. It fits the "story driven" part and while I'm certainly not going to slack, it does takes some stress and frusttration out. Stuff like "damn - after 1.5, my DPS as marksman dropped by almost 10%" not happening feels like a good perspective. I'm doing what I can and someone out there will do the numbercrunching necessary for me to optimize my equipment. TL;DR: If I have no way to read my combatlog noone's going to tell me what buttons to press in what order so I'll do 10% more DPS, so I can play the way that's fun for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) This is true, however. Technically it is, Truga. But the same argument could be used to support the following positions: --Jedi Knights should only have Auto attack, Kick, and Bash --Binding/Gating should only be available to Force users --Using your ship to go to another planet should take a half hour (think EQ boats) --We don't need an AH or Trade Channel! Just use general chat! Edited January 11, 2012 by AlpsStranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Can someone explain this to me? Are you going to mute everyone in their raid, so they can't say "wow my last backstab just did 9001 damage" (already happened to me once) or "woah this meter says I'm doing over nine thousand DPS" People in Rift thought that an external combat logger "couldn't be spammed in chat" but the commonly used one had an auto-clipboard function, so... yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triklops Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Bioware, just remember who pays for your jobs. Hint: It's not the 0,1% competitive progress roxxors. But the 99,9% who just want to enjoy your game for fun. + you can save a lot of bandwidth on these forums because those 0,01% tend to produce 99,9% of the (whiny) posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Bioware, just remember who pays for your jobs. Hint: It's not the 0,1% competitive progress roxxors. But the 99,9% who just want to enjoy your game for fun. + you can save a lot of bandwidth on these forums because those 0,01% tend to produce 99,9% of the (whiny) posts That's right. Mediocrity wins! Let's all make a glorified chat room! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 One of these statements has to be mistaken. If the community actually wants full combat logging and a minority is trying to suppress it then statement #1 is true. If statement #2 is true then statement #1 is false. If not, then what the "hardcores" have always said about the "casuals" is true. Namely, that they want to hide in our groups for a free ride. Go logic! =p You know, I still play WoW and have since 2004. The combat log epeen spammer and the "boot the low dps now!" types of events happen exceptionally rarely in my experience. You know, I can't recall the last time anyone even cared about posting combat logs in 5-man randoms and even LFR. However, what I have seen is when a group goes at a raid boss over and over after trying many different strategies and going out of their way to accommodate low performing healers or dps, that they will eventually decide to replace the offending people. What is wrong with that? Anyhow, I really fail to see why everyone is so scared of combat logs. Perhaps I have never experienced these issues because I don't fail at my job? Perhaps I'm just special or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 However, what I have seen is when a group goes at a raid boss over and over after trying many different strategies and going out of their way to accommodate low performing healers or dps, that they will eventually decide to replace the offending people. What is wrong with that? Just because I never read my class forum, play while baking a cake and talking on my cell phone, and only have one finger doesn't mean I don't have the right to do leading-edge content! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Bioware, just remember who pays for your jobs. Hint: It's not the 0,1% competitive progress roxxors. But the 99,9% who just want to enjoy your game for fun. + you can save a lot of bandwidth on these forums because those 0,01% tend to produce 99,9% of the (whiny) posts Pardon me, but I do not belong to either group you've outlined. Where do those of us who enjoy end-game raiding and having access to quantitative data fit in? You do know that there are those of us who aren't the elite, top 100, etc. Are we mushrooms or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zootzoot Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) All they're doing is preventing players from seeing the glaring imbalances more readily and then spamming the forums. I have to say I've never seen devs with this much hubris. This is the most closed MMO system I've experienced since the "good old days". So the Tank dies and unless he tells me I can't see that he didn't use his CD's? Yeah that's great. Edited January 11, 2012 by zootzoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I gotta say, in my guild if one of my raiders didn't "toggle on" their combat log so I could parse it and ensure they're pulling weight, they'd be left out of the raid pretty quickly. A person who can do their share of the load doesn't fear metrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So the Tank dies and unless he tells me I can't see that he didn't use his CD's? Yeah that's great. Who are you to tell that Tank how to play? He's roleplaying and roleplayer's feel that abilities with cooldowns break immersion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zootzoot Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Who are you to tell that Tank how to play? He's roleplaying and roleplayer's feel that abilities with cooldowns break immersion. LOL nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorin_Sargothi Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Go logic! =p You know, I still play WoW and have since 2004. The combat log epeen spammer and the "boot the low dps now!" types of events happen exceptionally rarely in my experience. You know, I can't recall the last time anyone even cared about posting combat logs in 5-man randoms and even LFR. However, what I have seen is when a group goes at a raid boss over and over after trying many different strategies and going out of their way to accommodate low performing healers or dps, that they will eventually decide to replace the offending people. What is wrong with that? Anyhow, I really fail to see why everyone is so scared of combat logs. Perhaps I have never experienced these issues because I don't fail at my job? Perhaps I'm just special or something. This reminds me of the times when we would pug in WoW, and a player would be wearing tank gear for dps, dps gear for healing, and similar mashups. We never kicked them, as they were quick to explain they were building an offspec set of gear. Sure, they weren't optimal, but we didn't mind. They were good enough at their job, and we were quite willing to help them acquire the gear they needed. It's all about honesty and professionalism. The math is there to help fix and prevent problems, not cause grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimster Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Bioware, just remember who pays for your jobs. Hint: It's not the 0,1% competitive progress roxxors. But the 99,9% who just want to enjoy your game for fun. + you can save a lot of bandwidth on these forums because those 0,01% tend to produce 99,9% of the (whiny) posts This +1 You said it man. Can't let a vocal minority take over the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Who are you to tell that Tank how to play? He's roleplaying and roleplayer's feel that abilities with cooldowns break immersion. I agree! For you see, my Imperial Agent Operative may technically be a medic, but he lied and subverted his way through medical school. He literally has no idea what the difference between a corrosive dart and a kolto probe is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimster Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 That's right. Mediocrity wins! Let's all make a glorified chat room! Give the man credit... he nailed it 100% after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridfire Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm all for combat logs and stuff like recount so I can tell how I am personally doing, and if I were DPS (as I was in WOW), I like to use it to compare my performance against others. My old guild was mature enough that we didn't have children who thought that the meter was the be-all and end-all of raiding, and we used it as a tool to see where we might improve, and who was getting it completely wrong (Seriously, we had a Rogue use Fan of Knives in his regular 1-target DPS rotation - obviously we noticed the knives spraying everywhere every few seconds... but this wasn't his only mistake). I understand however that my guild was exceptional in that regard, and in a new game like this it would easily be abused and used as a elitist device to prevent newbies getting groups at all. Perhaps later in the game's development would be a better time to introduce it? For those thinking my first paragraph makes me somehow 'elitist' or that people should be able to play however they like, I disagree. If 16 people are on an Op trying to succeed, and 1 of those people is 'playing however they like' and basically not doing as much damage as he should or heals per second etc, the other 15 have to work harder. That casual roleplayer who doesn't like using a certain skill because it sounds odd is contributing to 15 other real live humans failure. Why should that be acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimster Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just because I never read my class forum, play while baking a cake and talking on my cell phone, and only have one finger doesn't mean I don't have the right to do leading-edge content! He pays 15 a month too, so why should you get royal treatment? You are better at the game, you know that, feel proud and let the man bake his cake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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