The Jedi Knight Romance and Romance Possibilities Thread

[Meira_Arirai]

Devil's advocate here. I've been having a lot of fun with the Doc romance.

 

I'm pretty sure there's a certain amount of self-awareness/deliberate self-parody in his pickup lines and over-the-top boasting. The Bruce Campbell comparison that a couple of previous commenters have made is apt. Notice that you often end up with affection gains when you call him on his BS, if you do it in a non-hateful way. I think his use of hyperbole is deliberate instigation; to a certain extent, he wants your knight to confront him about some of the ridiculous stuff coming out of his mouth-that's his idea of how to start a conversation. I think the writers were trying to channel a bit of the dynamic of Han and Leia's early relationship here. Whether they succeded at that, or whether that's an attractive choice for any given person is totally subject to individual taste.

 

I agree with previous posters' interpretation that the smooth-talking-ladies-man act is largely, well, an act, and that it covers for him being awkward and vulnerable in ways that can be oddly endearing at times. Again, if you're willing to be a little combative without being over-the-top insulting, watching that unfold can be an amusing experience.

 

I mentioned it in a previous post on romance options, but I'm really enjoying the chance to develop a romance with a character who doesn't think that a woman who's sabered her way through a Darth, a couple of high-level Imperial Agents and a whole lot of monsters needs someone to be a big strong manly-man to physically protect or otherwise treat her exaggeratedly gently. My initial in-character assessment of him when he was the first person to attempt to flirt with my sentinel at all, and proceeded to do so while she had sabers out and was covered in bug guts was "Suicidal, clueless, attractively ballsy, or some mix of all of the above?" The dynamic between the two as it plays out in my head ends up working similarly to Firefly's Zoe and Wash-whom, it also should be noted, didn't exactly hit it off immediately.

 

Doc has his own genius, and he's passionate about putting it to work, especially in service of the civilian and indigenous populations that Republic/Imperial and Jedi/Sith tend to run over roughshod. It's hard for me to reconcile that with the initial impression I got of him as a shallow, self-obsessed dilettante. He readily admits that he's turned on by adversity, challenge, and novelty, something that you also see play out in his chronic bad luck with women, but if you choose to play the romance, you get to see those attitudes start to shift. I think one of the big problems with romanceable characters that I've seen unfold in places like KotOR and Mass Effect as well is that often, if you don't choose to romance a character, you end up missing out on a lot of their character development and come away with a skewed or incomplete idea of who they're supposed to be.

 

Early in the Bounty Hunter storyline, Nem'ro the Hutt says "An honest bounty hunter...what next, a funny Jedi?" I think it's all too easy for a Jedi character to become totally humorless, self-important, and stodgy, and it's great that Kira and Doc are both around to allow the knight to not take him/herself 100% seriously.

 

I totally agree with the OP that having a romance forced on you is creepy and horrible-I've had that experience in other BioWare games, and really wished there was a way to quickly shut down an NPC's flirting without being abusive when said abuse wasn't my character's style. I wish the AI was sensitive enough that there was a good way to avoid this.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Meira_Arirai

[Maidel]

As a couple of other people have mentioned (and I did in another thread) he is quite litterally the character of autolycus as played by Bruce Campbell in xena/Hercules, he even has the exact same facial hair. Actually, he's not exactly the same, doc actually has the redeeming quality that he wants to help people. He stood up against me when I suggested leaving the injured imperials saying he had to help them.

 

I hadn't seen any pictures of doc before I first saw him in the game, I had no preconceived ideas about him, but the first thing he said was a chat up line, in the middle of a gosh darn battle.

 

I'm sorry, but that's frankly awesome. It's that unending unrelenting adherence to his attempt to chat up anything in a skirt (ok I was in trousers...). It absolutely made me love him as a character. The only thing that would have made it better is if he had actually been voiced by Bruce!

 

Will I go through with it? Not sure. Depends on how fast they open up same sex relationships because currently, kira would get it over him. But, give it another month for me to hit level cap and he might have won me over.

 

On a side note. I'm pretty much up on all starwars stuff. I cannot find anything that prevents a Jedi from having 'dalliances'. Attachment is the issue for Jedi, but there is nothing I can see that would prevent a 'flirtatious' Jedi bonking his/her way around the galaxy so long as it was physical rather than emotional.

 

Therefore, from my perspective, my Jedi has flirted with anyone she's been able to. The only issue is if I take it the final step and become 'attached'.

 

However, I always have the final 'canon' get out clause. I'm a Correllian Jedi, and they are allowed to have families...

Edited January 22, 2012 by Maidel

[okravenhurst]

I would like Doc if it weren't for his awful mustache. Are there any appearance customizations for him that get rid of it? I just really like selfish jerkface characters.

[Meira_Arirai]

Maidel: Man, a Bruce Campbell voice-acted companion? I would reroll for that. I was seriously sad when I found out that Raphael Sbarge wasn't going to be putting in an appearance, so I came to the FemKnight's crew without any preconceived expectations. Andrew Bowen's voice acting is a lot of what sold me on Doc.

 

I was impressed when he talked me out of destroying the Ortolan power station on Hoth and leaving a lot of the civilian inhabitants without a means to stay alive. In a party full of people who are each really devoted to the war effort for their own reasons, I'm really glad to have his influence as well.

 

I also thought of the angle that (and you're right, this is directly out of George Lucas's mouth) the no-attachments rule means that Jedi can't do exclusive, possessive relationships, and that jealousy in particular is seen as an ugly, destructive thing. It doesn't mean they can't have sex. One wonders if people who had that agenda wouldn't deliberately seek Jedi out.

 

Okravenhurst: Indeed, you can get customization skins for Doc. I haven't found any screenshots for them, but they do exist. The vendor that I know to carry them is on Ilum orbital station, but there are quite probably others.

[Maidel]

I also thought of the angle that (and you're right, this is directly out of George Lucas's mouth) the no-attachments rule means that Jedi can't do exclusive, possessive relationships, and that jealousy in particular is seen as an ugly, destructive thing. It doesn't mean they can't have sex. One wonders if people who had that agenda wouldn't deliberately seek Jedi out.

 

Well I wasn't implying that all Jedi were sex crazed monsters...

 

But yes, you make a good point. Their explicit indifference to attachment might well be very attractive to serial one-night-standers. It's the best bet for them, a woman who won't become attached and won't call them every day for the next 2 weeks leaving annoying messages on their holophone!

[Mierrik]

Thank you guys for taking the time to add your opinions to the discussion, I'm glad you're enjoying Doc and his romance!

 

@Okravenhurst: I think I saw cutomization for him on Belsavis, though I wasn't too impressed with them.

 

@Meira_Arirai: I think you've hit the nail on the head there, by choosing not to persue a romance either out of choice or through the lack of same gendered romances, we can quite easily miss out on a lot of their content and thus the other facets of their character.

 

I have to admit that while I have read a lot of the Bruce Campbell comparisons, I personally have never seen any of his roles so perhaps the lack of connection there might go to explain why I'm not so enamoured with Doc as a character.

 

I do respect a lot of his characteristics and I like how he is portrayed as a typical romance but it just always rubs me the wrong way.

 

I wish there were more opportunities to be sarcastic and have a sense of humour as a Jedi, like you've said, they're not all stodgy, serious and straight laced!

 

 

@Maidel: I'd never thought on that aspect of the 'no attachments' side of Jedi's before, that definitely adds more space for creating the character ^^

[MrsSudo]

Personally, I completely agree with the unfortunate Doc romance, and your opinions about him being suitable for a different class. (I wont reiterate all the valid points in this thread! )

 

 

I guess I'm still romancing him though..

 

I have chosen to follow a light-side path for my JK, she's pretty strict on that.

Before now I've had no problems sticking to the middle ground to flirt with Doc.. but now this..

 

 

My only question;

 

 

Is there any way to romance Doc with out gaining dark-side points?

 

 

I've come to an option where 2 out of 3 options are dark-side romance and the third just shuts him down..??! Why would Bioware give these options to a JK, I just don't get it.

(Or is there no way to avoid dark-side points if you actually wish to romance Doc?)

 

 

 

Enjoyed reading all your opinions about Doc, I'm pretty early on in his romance story I guess so just wondered how everyone else got along!

Thanks!

[Maidel]

Is there any way to romance Doc with out gaining dark-side points?

 

 

Surely the answer to that question is found in one of the first side missions on tython were you have to spilt up those two jedi - lying about it gets you darkside points, so actually going through with it....

 

 

Interresting question - are there any light side romance options with kira?

[MrsSudo]

Surely the answer to that question is found in one of the first side missions on tython were you have to spilt up those two jedi - lying about it gets you darkside points, so actually going through with it....

 

I do see your point.. but its still a little frustrating. All the other classes get away with it scot-free!!(?)

If it were really set in stone surely that means the romance option should never be available to a JK.. but that just seems a little unfair. Why taunt a light-side JK with a romance option, if it only leads to dark-side points? boo.

[Meira_Arirai]

For perspective: If I remember right from reading ahead on DarthHater, choosing to marry Doc nets you about 50 dark-side points. I make 150-200 ls points in a single flashpoint. If romance is the only thing you're making ds choices for, the impact on your alignment is practically nothing.

 

Also, since the only thing that your alignment impacts right now is the ability to use some non-essential items, your alignment choices don't count for much outside of a purely roleplay perspective.

 

I made the choice from an RP perspective to go with a character who imagines herself as a gallant, white-knight-type figure and is vulnerable to letting her heart yank the rest of her around (if you're familiar, she's basically the title character of Revolutionary Girl Utena, transplanted into the Star Wars universe). I expected that to net me some seriously negative consequences in game, and have been kind of sad that, for the moment, it just means I'll have to run a few more quests to be able to use Light V items and have the corresponding title than the average LS bear.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Meira_Arirai

[Maidel]

I do see your point.. but its still a little frustrating. All the other classes get away with it scot-free!!(?)

If it were really set in stone surely that means the romance option should never be available to a JK.. but that just seems a little unfair. Why taunt a light-side JK with a romance option, if it only leads to dark-side points? boo.

 

Well that's one way of looking at it. However you could equally look on it as because it's a defining characteristic of Jedi knights, how comes we get away with it so lightly.

 

If for example a smugglers quest enabled you to trade in your star ship for something better, but the smuggler got negative points because everyone knows their ship is all important no matter how crummy it is. In that instance the Jedi would get off scott free because they don't even own their ship.

[Matreix]

Dude i love doc, he reminds me of tony stark. That arrogant douche that has a good heart. xD

 

Hell he even looks like him.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Matreix

[Philmors]

Doc is awesome. Love the guy.

 

Also, don't choose the flirt options, or shut him down when he flirts with you.

 

But still, <3 Doc, even as a dude.

 

I'm with Kira so I'm technically more his wingman in helping him with women and getting him out of trouble than anything else.

[ChaosGithzerai]

I apologize for not posting in my own thread for almost a week due to chronic health problems. I don't really have much to say since I've already said my piece, but again, I wanted to thank all of you who posted here for sharing your opinions, for respecting the opinions of those that differ from your own, and, most importantly, for being civil.

 

I may not post here anymore since I no longer have much to say, but I will continue checking back to see if there are any new posts be they new perspectives on Doc's character not discussed here yet, discussions and/or suggestions about possible future romance arc for the class, or simple expression of one's opinion.

 

I will never like the guy, but once again, thank you, all, for making this thread a very enjoyable and insightful discussion. And I know this is very late, and I apologize for this, but if the person who helped to weed out that horrible troll is reading, you have my deepest gratitude.

[isisinabi]

So I decided to pipe in, in hopes of letting Bioware know how I feel too.

 

I was going to avoid playing a Jedi Knight completely because I would prefer NOT to have a companion that's a 1978 **** star wanna-be. I actually at this point am avoiding playing it because I don't want him anywhere near my Jedi and I *have* to get him.

 

I already leveled to 50 as an Agent, and compared to Doc, Vector is a God among men. Vector is who a Jedi Knight should really have, loyal, sweet, kinda weird but really appreciative of the person he's with and willing to stand behind them no matter what.

 

Now, I realize I'm preaching to the choir, my other ladies and gentlemen players, but we have to remember that the guys who wrote Doc's script need to remember that actual women are going to want to play this game and some actual women do not want a disgusting womanizer for a romantic option. That whole "ooh I can change him!" bs is just that. No really it is.

 

On another note, even Corso isn't this bad. I think he's kinda charming even though he needs to be put in his place sometimes about that whole "I need to protect the woman-folk" business. What is WRONG with the men on the Republic?!

 

Can we get some more options please?

Edited January 31, 2012 by isisinabi

[Vicen]

I find him funny to me as a male...cause hes like some 20 yr old frat guy who only cares about banging chicks and what not...However I would agree he would become tiresome if I was a female and he was my only option...

 

Hopefully they implant same sex romances in the near future...then you can get it on with Kira!

[Noviere]

I only just picked up Doc(as a "guest" companion so far), but I'm enjoying him. I have made some dialogue choices that I have regretted though, because I want to pursue his romance... but I want it to feel more natural for my character. Think Leia and Han -- they weren't big fans of each other at the start.

 

As an example, I flirted with him when we first met(and it wasn't too over the top, thank god), but it didn't suit my idea of my character -- I only did it because I was afraid that the romance wouldn't happen unless I chose all flirt options.

 

So my question is, does skipping the flirt lines prevent the romance from happening? Or can I be a bit aloof until he (hopefully) wins me over.

[SilentKitty]

I only just picked up Doc(as a "guest" companion so far), but I'm enjoying him. I have made some dialogue choices that I have regretted though, because I want to pursue his romance... but I want it to feel more natural for my character. Think Leia and Han -- they weren't big fans of each other at the start.

 

As an example, I flirted with him when we first met(and it wasn't too over the top, thank god), but it didn't suit my idea of my character -- I only did it because I was afraid that the romance wouldn't happen unless I chose all flirt options.

 

So my question is, does skipping the flirt lines prevent the romance from happening? Or can I be a bit aloof until he (hopefully) wins me over.

 

Hmm... I would start of with some flirting in the beginning just so you don't lock yourself out of the romance. If we could go back to a later save it wouldn't be a problem but you don't want to find out 2 months later that you missed it. Have seen posts from other players who romanced Kira or some other LI who wanted to start it of slow and ended up not starting it at all. Do some initial flirting just to get the show going I guess.

 

I'm pretty much at the end of the romance now and I always go through the convo a few times ending it with esc trying different answers until goes the way I want it to. In some convos I think that you have the opportunity to flirt twice in a row and then I allow myself to skip one of them if it doesn't work for me. I like to flirt, just not too much =)

[Mierrik]

So I decided to pipe in, in hopes of letting Bioware know how I feel too.

 

I was going to avoid playing a Jedi Knight completely because I would prefer NOT to have a companion that's a 1978 **** star wanna-be. I actually at this point am avoiding playing it because I don't want him anywhere near my Jedi and I *have* to get him.

 

I already leveled to 50 as an Agent, and compared to Doc, Vector is a God among men. Vector is who a Jedi Knight should really have, loyal, sweet, kinda weird but really appreciative of the person he's with and willing to stand behind them no matter what.

 

Now, I realize I'm preaching to the choir, my other ladies and gentlemen players, but we have to remember that the guys who wrote Doc's script need to remember that actual women are going to want to play this game and some actual women do not want a disgusting womanizer for a romantic option. That whole "ooh I can change him!" bs is just that. No really it is.

 

On another note, even Corso isn't this bad. I think he's kinda charming even though he needs to be put in his place sometimes about that whole "I need to protect the woman-folk" business. What is WRONG with the men on the Republic?!

 

Can we get some more options please?

 

 

 

I agree, we should see some more options and it's good to see someone else who shares our opinion on Doc, it can get a little disheartening at times when you find you're in the minority for a character.

I'm curious, do we have any confirmation on who wrote Doc? I've yet to hear any of the devs claim that they wrote him and I try to keep an open mind that it could have been a woman who worked on him, especially when one considers that one of the DA team (Jennifer Hepler) wrote Corso.

 

 

@Noviere: There will be plenty more opportunities for you to flirt with Doc, don't panic

[Pryan_Shimrod]

I'm sorry if it's been posted already, but I find it rather sad that you're all shutting down Doc like this.

I'm male, play male JK, and all I can see about Doc is a very lonely fellow who's trying to make some friends without really knowing how, he's obviously rather socially inept.

I'm saddened that everyone just stops at what he shows and doesn't try to get in deeper with the dude.

 

When Kaliyo gets on the ship and starts badmouthing Doc, it really irked me, and I wish I could've kicked her out of my ship. (out of character, this was some really well written part I thought) He's the clumsy show off who's very lonely, and I do not like people to judge him without even trying to pry under his shallow guise.

[SilentKitty]

I'm sorry if it's been posted already, but I find it rather sad that you're all shutting down Doc like this.

I'm male, play male JK, and all I can see about Doc is a very lonely fellow who's trying to make some friends without really knowing how, he's obviously rather socially inept.

I'm saddened that everyone just stops at what he shows and doesn't try to get in deeper with the dude.

 

When Kaliyo gets on the ship and starts badmouthing Doc, it really irked me, and I wish I could've kicked her out of my ship. (out of character, this was some really well written part I thought) He's the clumsy show off who's very lonely, and I do not like people to judge him without even trying to pry under his shallow guise.

 

Ohh =) if you refer to me I can say that I really like Doc, a lot! And this romance has been a ton of fun just because it is so different from every other bioware romance that I have done before. Dragon Age Origin had Alistair, a funny, shy and kind of innocent guy. Dragon Age II had Fenris and Anders who brought quite a bit of angst to the table. In Mass Effect I have really enjoyed the romances with Kaidan and the rest but never before have I played with a LI like Doc. He is fun, a womanizer but when you call him on it starts to get interesting. My JK reallly had to work for it, but I was pretty sure that her Jedi patience and firm butt would win him over in the end. The reason for why I always esc out of a convo is in order to make them last longer and that I don't want my JK to do too much flirting. She is a jedi after all =)

 

I have finally gotten to the later part in the romance when he starts to open up a little and it is really romantic <3 don't worry, there are those of us that really like Doc!

 

 

edit: if you look through this thread, there are quite a few posters that really like Doc, we're just not so organized as to having our own "I <3 Doc"-thread! We're busy saving the galaxy ;-)

Edited February 1, 2012 by SilentKitty

[Xzenorath]

I'm not done reading the first 20-30 posts thus far but I wanted to insert this quick patch of information in the thread that a lot of ladies appear to have forgotten about Jedi...

 

Love, attachment, passion... is what is against the code. It's those feelings that the council resent and would rather their knights avoid. There is various canon lore about Jedi having flings and casual relations... so long as you leave your feelings out of it and do not get attached to the person, it is not against the code.

 

Perhaps some of you should consider this before being so quick about dismissing Doc. While he appears to be a womanizer... he provides you with the options of a little R&R without the feelings and the whole "breaking the code" deal.

 

I realize this isn't most women's idea of a relationship when they rolled a Jedi... but the fact is you shouldn't(according to the code) be having one and Doc provides that and then some.

 

Hopefully in the future, they will add the option to break the code and have a full on relationship with new companion or opening up the option to even get it on with Scourge... (Can you even begin to imagine what happens if the Council found out you not only broke the code and have a relationship, but that relationship is with a Sith Pureblood. Jeez x.x)

 

Anywho, that's all I wanted to say!

[Aquarra]

I'm glad there are others defending Doc out there because I really, really love the guy. I adore him. (As I have mentioned in my previous post.) He came across to me as a rather charming fellow who is quite socially inept and decides to cover it all by bragging and acting like a womanizer. I'm not going out to say he's the perfect guy or anything but he has his own charm. Doc goes out of his way to help people that most others would forget about or step on. Did any of the people bashing him even read his bio in the lore section? Sure he comes across at first as an arrogant womanizer but he's funny and really has a lot to offer.

 

I wish I knew who wrote him so I could congratulate him/her/them. Doc is funny. He is well written and is quite the likeable character if you take the time to learn about him. As for his list of "demands" when he joins the ship, are they really all that bad? The guy wants a half hour shower every morning, to have the food he likes and to have his room a bit warmer. Are any of those things terrible?

 

If you choose to ask him about his relationship with Prudy, the girl he goes to save, stole money to buy the hospital for and left at the altar he tells you she was an overly clingy girl who made marriage plans within a few weeks and without bothering to actually care what his input was.

 

People also complained about him "wanting to make a disease to get famous", how many people out there have never said something rash like "I would do <random bad thing> in order to get <random thing>. I genuinely doubt that anyone who does as much charity medical work as he does would go and actually make a disease just to create a cure for it.

 

Lastly to those saying women don't like Doc, I'm a woman and I love Doc. I'm not going to go out and make an I <3 Doc thread, or anything like that but, I and several of my female friends love Doc.

[Pryan_Shimrod]

Just to add one more thing, at the very least Doc is not half as bad as Tharan for Consulars, who heavily flirts with her, makes her believe he's definitely interested, sleeps with her, then dumps her for a freaking holo-chick.

 

Character's aside, Doc's lines are some of the best ones among all companions I tried out, I really command whoever wrote his part.

[Aquarra]

Just to add one more thing, at the very least Doc is not half as bad as Tharan for Consulars, who heavily flirts with her, makes her believe he's definitely interested, sleeps with her, then dumps her for a freaking holo-chick.

 

Character's aside, Doc's lines are some of the best ones among all companions I tried out, I really command whoever wrote his part.

 

THANK YOU. I can't believe I forgot about this. Theran was a total jerk. Don't even get me started on him. Oh what we had was "fun" but I love this hologram so we're through. Thanks for sleeping with me though! Also, I'm going to try and sleep with your padawan later on even though I broke off our relationship because of the hologram! If anyone DESERVES scorn it's Theran Cedrax.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Aquarra