Lethality OPs unite!

[Achmed]

is it just me or am i one of the seldom occuring lethality Operatives?

every OP i see is either healing or concelment, but i havnt ran into a single lethality specc.

 

people, you have no idea what you are missing. its such a fun to see people die due to your dots. seeing them think you are going to flee from a fight but actualy u are just kiting them without them realising they are just about to die

 

i also think that i dish out way more DPS in PvE then a concealment every would be able to. the 2.25 Dots we have crit quite often with over 50% critchance and watching those numbers while you still backstab, shiving, occasionaly hidden strike, weakining blast and culling them is just awsome. ofc this all comes at a price (prepapre your dots) but once setteled you are unbeatable (love u little shield probe *hug*).

 

so, hands up, whos lethality and loves it?

[thecoffeecup]

Sorry, not Lethality. Is it really fun though? The first thing I noticed about the tree was how how it relies on TA and yet doesn't really provide any new ways of refreshing it. Lacerate for example will refresh TA 50% of the time.

 

Maybe I'm wrong.

 

Concealment is good solo though. Not so sure about Lethality for leveling.

[Urothefox]

I've just recently changed over from Concealment. I wanted to try out something new and see how things were in Lethality. Currently, I'm pretty evenly split between Lethality/Medicine. Up to Cull in Lethality and Kolto Probes (with TA proc) in Medicine. I'm considering respeccing all the way up to Weakening Shot tonight to see how that works. Probably 31 in Lethality, 7 Medicine, 3 Concealment.

 

Any pointers? The lack of TA generators and slow build where anything could go wrong (Dispel of buffs, CC lock when TA about to drop) seems to make the tree unwieldy.

[Achmed]

i like it, but its also way more complicated then concealment.

opener is the same.

- hidden strike (+1 TA) and then round arround them like a complete fool

- dart

- corrosive grenade

- cull, you can do weaking blast here but its likely that the TA will be gone when you finsihed it (lag etc)

- weaking blast 30% more DOT dmg,

- 1/3 to 1/2 of their health should be gone right now

and now improvise

stun and backstab and shiv them aggain them throw your last cull. (remember. DOTs are still ticking)

usualy works for me

if not, kite them (sever tendon), refresh DOTs or just finsih them off somehow. dont forget to use shield probe once they hit you the first time. basicly you can use it every 15 seconds its like 2 kolto probes, except it absorbs round about 2k damage instead of healing it.

if something goes terribly wrong, u can still vanish in the shadows

energy isn't much of a problem since the DOT crits give 2 energy back.

 

more TAs aren't realy needed allthough they would be nice so we could through in a stim boost. if you have 2 TAs ans spent them both on Cull, ull end up realy deep in the lower ends of energy regen and you realy dont want this.

 

only real downside i've found so far ist, that u have to bea realy carefull where you throw your corrosive grenades if i want to stelath aggain after u killed something. once anything else is dotted, you are screwed.

 

tip: take your time with lethality builds, you'll need it and the 30 sec cooldown on shieldprobe pretty much buys you this time. even if you die, PVP enemies usualy die too with the DOTs ticking on them.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Achmed

[Tuckervb]

i like it, but its also way more complicated then concealment.

opener is the same.

- hidden strike (+1 TA) and then round arround them like a complete fool

- dart

- corrosive grenade

- cull, you can do weaking blast here but its likely that the TA will be gone when you finsihed it (lag etc)

- weaking blast 30% more DOT dmg,

- 1/3 to 1/2 of their health should be gone right now

and now improvise

stun and backstab and shiv them aggain them throw your last cull. (remember. DOTs are still ticking)

usualy works for me

if not, kite them (sever tendon), refresh DOTs or just finsih them off somehow. dont forget to use shield probe once they hit you the first time. basicly you can use it every 15 seconds its like 2 kolto probes, except it absorbs round about 2k damage instead of healing it.

if something goes terribly wrong, u can still vanish in the shadows

energy isn't much of a problem since the DOT crits give 2 energy back.

 

more TAs aren't realy needed allthough they would be nice so we could through in a stim boost. if you have 2 TAs ans spent them both on Cull, ull end up realy deep in the lower ends of energy regen and you realy dont want this.

 

only real downside i've found so far ist, that u have to bea realy carefull where you throw your corrosive grenades if i want to stelath aggain after u killed something. once anything else is dotted, you are screwed.

 

tip: take your time with lethality builds, you'll need it and the 30 sec cooldown on shieldprobe pretty much buys you this time. even if you die, PVP enemies usualy die too with the DOTs ticking on them.

 

I was planning for my offspec to be lethality... does that count. Do they have more range abilities that can be utilized or are they still primarily melee based.

 

PS. i just noticed your sig being a quote from the nerf OP thread.

[Achmed]

it's still melee i guess since weaking blast and cull just have 10m range ... and shiv ofc.

But u can throw poisons (acids?) from 30m range.

 

still thats not much of trouble since u can snare everyting. i used to kite melee pve champions while letting lokin heal me.

works for PvP too to a certain degree. ofc thers not much sense in kiting a troope/bounty hunterr or sniper/gunslinger.

[Urothefox]

Cool. Thanks for the tips=)

[sevink]

I was Lethality for a few warzones, I liked it partly, but I hated the TA generation. It feels weird still being forced to use Shiv/Hidden.

 

I'd like a talent give a percent when their Dart crits to give a TA proc. Just give Lethality something to generate TA from range. I would enjoy it a lot more in PvP if that was the case.

 

I'm sure its fun as hell in PvE though.

[Jasith]

Lethality seems like a half arsed effort from BW IMO. It has potential, but it looks confused as to what it wants to be, a dot, ranged or melee spec. Also brings in way too many PvP talents, I mostly spec for PvE, even if you don't want them. I might give it a go, my respec should be down to 0 credits again, but I think it needs some work before it's really viable.

 

I'd love to see it turned into a mid-range tree. Remove the reliance on melee attacks, and allow you to stay at 10-20m range to dps.

[neurosisxeno]

Lethality seems like a half arsed effort from BW IMO. It has potential, but it looks confused as to what it wants to be, a dot, ranged or melee spec. Also brings in way too many PvP talents, I mostly spec for PvE, even if you don't want them. I might give it a go, my respec should be down to 0 credits again, but I think it needs some work before it's really viable.

 

I'd love to see it turned into a mid-range tree. Remove the reliance on melee attacks, and allow you to stay at 10-20m range to dps.

 

BioWare was pretty clear they wanted Operatives\Scoundrels to be Mid-Ranged Skirmishers that mixed Melee and close\mid-range ranged attacks. I recall that a lot of their abilities in Beta had a 15 or 20m range, that was dropped because BioWare stated they felt the class was becoming TOO ranged.

 

As for PvP opening, I usually do this:

Stealth->Hidden Strike (1 TA and a 2.5-3k hit)

Backstab

Debilitate

Shiv (2 TA)

Stim

(Maybe a Sever Here)

Dart

Corrosive Grenade

Weakening

Cull\Shiv until dead while refreshing DoTs as necessary and Overload Shotting while kiting.

 

That's usually if I get the jump, if someone runs at me I generally just assess the situation and work with what is best given their class. If they are ranged, get in their face and DoT them up to pressure them into moving, if they are melee dps kite them using sever and overload with DoTs and a mix of melee for TA, if they are tanks... try anything.

[Olliewilldie]

Yea I tried it for a few levels at 30-32 and really quite liked it in Warzones, will probably go back to it when I hit 50 as it lacked regen at those levels.

 

Getting corrosive dart on multiple people felt goooood.

[Taliknor]

Lethality, though I had to switch to healing for a bit in pvp. (we needed a healer.) There are also 2 additional non-31 pt. builds you can play with. There's 2 additional rotations that you can use, just so that you can slow more people down. (like in huttball....)

 

With 2 groups, you poison one, grenade+flashbomb the other, and then switch back to the first group. The nice thing about 'nades is that they have a larger range.

 

Secondary rotation is to run the snipe route for the very beginning. (when people are too far away, or you go up against champions solo.) Then it's basically the dps rotation, but with cc thrown in. (what can I say? Debilitate is very useful. mid-rotation. 2 poisons + BS and either shiv then run away to pew pew, or crouch down to pop off an exploding robot that'll pop when a poison procs....)

 

(in other words, if you don't play an operative with 3 range scenerios in mind, then you aren't OP.)

[erikranger]

I am lethality and I love it. I love PVP and the complexity of the rotation. Lethality has a ton of tools and a lot of escapes. I was concealment at first, and I would recommend to anytone to level using conceal until 30, then switch to lethality. But prior to 30, lethality is pretty useless. I primarily pvp. but I have not hit 50 yet.

 

My rotation...

 

Hidden Strike (+1 TA)

Backstab

Corrosive Grenade

Corrosive Dart

Shiv (+1 TA) also refreshes TA

weakening blast

Cull (-1 TA)

Cull (-1 TA)

Shiv

Stim

Debilitate

Backstab

Shiv

 

That is a perfect world, and it rarely exists. I also put a few of my videos on youtube. Check out my channel = Mrntrigue.

 

 

[Spifnar]

How do you deal with knockbacks after HS? There are at least 4 classes with short cooldown non-targetted knockbacks...that root or snare you

 

This was the biggest problem I had before I got HS+Jarring Strike (aside from gear imbalances). Losing the guaranteed BS.

 

It's also the reason why I can't drop Jarring strike and just rely on Debilitate (which lasts longer and allows for further CC)

[Achmed]

How do you deal with knockbacks after HS? There are at least 4 classes with short cooldown non-targetted knockbacks...that root or snare you

 

This was the biggest problem I had before I got HS+Jarring Strike (aside from gear imbalances). Losing the guaranteed BS.

 

It's also the reason why I can't drop Jarring strike and just rely on Debilitate (which lasts longer and allows for further CC)

 

not much of a problem. with dots running (both 30m range btw) on them i cant care less. they still get damage and cause of the 30% snare getting back into 10m range for cull isnt hard either.

[trotsky_tor]

<3 other Lethality Ops in FPs/WZs/Ops. So nice getting extra damage on my Cull because of all the darts/grenades flying around

[Joskara]

WB should grant TA.

[trotsky_tor]

WB should grant TA.

 

Yah, that's the biggest oddity with Lethality...having to be in melee (4m) range for Shiv to generate TAs when all other abilities are 10m+ range.

[Elria]

I must say until today i had tried conc/medic specs and they were fun but missing something, I went lethality and sooo much more fun. im currently 32 and was conc couldn't kill act 1 boss for some reason . Went lethality and killed her pretty quickly. Don't even get me started on WZ's its way more fun and i feel like against higher levels im a little more effective.

[Jasith]

How does lethality fare in PvE? I know we lack hard numbers, but what's the feeling compared to Concealment? I've never tried Lethality, but from the talent tree it looks very PvP centered as I said, but it could be interesting to try it in an operation or hardmode.

[trotsky_tor]

How does lethality fare in PvE? I know we lack hard numbers, but what's the feeling compared to Concealment? I've never tried Lethality, but from the talent tree it looks very PvP centered as I said, but it could be interesting to try it in an operation or hardmode.

 

I can't see why you'd think Lethality is more PvP oriented than Concealment. Concealment is all about burst damage, Lethality is sustained with dots, etc.

[Jonis]

I would love Lethality if Corrosive Dart had a chance to generate TA, like Kolto Probe does from Medical Engineering.

[trotsky_tor]

I would love Lethality if Corrosive Dart had a chance to generate TA, like Kolto Probe does from Medical Engineering.

 

that would be nice. Or having Weakening Blast generate a TA.

[Jasith]

I can't see why you'd think Lethality is more PvP oriented than Concealment. Concealment is all about burst damage, Lethality is sustained with dots, etc.

 

Concealment isn't that reliant on burst in PvE. You're reliant on having a back turned towards you, and of course your Hidden Strike does grant you the highest numbers. Your sustained dps is still quite viable in operations, as long as the damnable backstab recognises the boss' back that is.

 

 

From Lethality tree

Tier 1 is fine. 5 points of PvE talents here.

 

Tier 2 has three points worth of good PvE talents, improving corrosive dart. Then it's a choice between improving Debilitate or Flash Bang. Neither is very useful in raids, although there are a few situations they come in handy.

 

Tier 3 is fine, although I've got mixed feelings with that stimbooster talent.

 

Tier 4 has three points worth of good PvE talents. The improvement to adrenal probe and energy regen from dot ticks is decent enough, so 5 points could be argued. Improving the Corrosive Grenade is hardly a PvE talent, slowing mobs is very situational.

 

Tier 5 has three talents which are good for PvE. Counterstrikes makes Countermeasures useful in PvP, not really useful for PvE.

 

Tier 6 has three points of good PvE talents. Improving the Shield probe doesn't hurt, but it's not exactly something I've found useful all that often in ops. Get a boss on you and it chews you up no matter what.

 

Tier 7 is fine with the one point.

 

So from my, admittedly limited, experience with the Lethality tree you spend 31 points in it of which 8 aren't exactly useful. In Concealment all the talents are useful, even if some are purely survival ones. Lethality could still be a very fine talent tree, but that would depend on the abilities granted being a wee bit OP on their own.

 

Do you have any kind of PvE rotation for Lethality? Or priority? Do other dots all help with Cull, or is it just operative dots?

[Arancor]

that would be nice. Or having Weakening Blast generate a TA.

 

That's basically the reason why I consider a hybrid medic/lethality build stronger, at least in PvP. By that I mean going 18 into lethality to generate TA through Kolto Probe. You basically set up Kolto Probe before entering a fight to have it up most of the time.

 

You can refresh it instantly at arbitrary distance and it will grant a TA every 9 sek on average, which is about 2/3rds as effective as Cull. Additionally it grants a nice survivability boost, which is bigger than the boost you get from the 15s CD reduction on shield probe, because a Shield Probe is only worth about 1 Kolto Probe and not 2. If you use Shield Probe on CD in fight the best you can get is using it two times within 30 seconds, which grants you aborption of 5.18 * your healing value. A 2 stack Kolto Probe will tick 10 times during that 30 seconds, granting 6.72 * your healing value over that time.

 

Of course Shield Probe is more burst defense, but that is not increased by the lower CD.

 

Weakening Blast and Devouring Microbes are also mediocre talents at best. As you already stated WB is often not used or not used in time, because of the danger of losing TA or being out of range. It also does weak damage on its own and only increases a share of your damage (only the dots), so it's overall dps increase is much less than 30%.

 

That's why I consider Tier 3 and 4 in Medic to be better in PvP than the last two tiers of Lethality. The ability to generate TA on range is boss.