RiskyBiz Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm not saying it is or it isn't, I just raise an eyebrow when I get knocked off a ledge and into fire/acid/etc. when my own character doesn't have a knockback. Due to the nature of the Hutt Ball arena, doesn't knockback abilities seem OP when only certain classes possess it? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fafnir Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm not saying it is or it isn't, I just raise an eyebrow when I get knocked off a ledge and into fire/acid/etc. when my own character doesn't have a knockback. Due to the nature of the Hutt Ball arena, doesn't knockback abilities seem OP when only certain classes possess it? Thoughts? AE knockback that Sith inquis got and bhs got is a tad op, way to short timer for what it does and if talented adds snare,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byteresistor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Knockbacks are just frustrating more than anything. Charge and the friendly grip abilities are the true gamebreakers in huttball. With knockback you have to think about positioning and even then it doesn't always work like you intented it to. With charge you can get to places others can't without help/going the long way and it's a quaranteed succes. People don't notice this that much due to most WF's being pug's but if there's ever going to be rated WF's and the ability to que just for huttball, classes with those abilities will be very sought after for any team, mark my words. Edited January 10, 2012 by byteresistor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Knockbacks, charges, force speed and pulls are all much, much more powerful in huttball than anywhere else. It wouldn't be a problem if theyweren't so unevenly distributed. You have classes like sorcs that get an aoe knockback, a pull, AND force speed...and then you have classes like the operative that get ZERO of these abilities. It makes for ridiculous balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If you can pull ally you can usually catch the ball too. The only problem with Knockback in Huttball is that the results are not reciprocal for melee versus range. If a ranged knocked a melee off a ledge, the melee is in big trouble. If it's the other way around, the ranged just shoots back from below and the melee still can't hit the ranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fafnir Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Knockbacks are just frustrating more than anything. Charge and the friendly grip abilities are the true gamebreakers in huttball. With knockback you have to think about positioning and even then it doesn't always work like you intented it to. With charge you can get to places others can't without help/going the long way and it's a quaranteed succes. People don't notice this that much due to most WF's being pug's but if there's ever going to be rated WF's and the ability to que just for huttball, classes with those abilities will be very sought after for any team, mark my words.Well the few times my jugger kick actually works, it tends to kick the enemy in wrong direction, they face me, i face them, they should get kicked back away from me, not thru me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeusThunder Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You need to define what you think the term Over-Powered means before this question can be answered. The fact that a player can take a reasonable action to prevent being knocked off a ledge tells me that knockback abilities are not OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowflit Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Knockbacks can be relatively easily countered with good footwork. The knockback effect works in a line between you and your opponent, so make sure that whatever is behind you in that line is safe. If you can put your back against something solid, so much the better. Once you're comfortable with positioning, knockbacks turn into wasted GCDs for your opponent. I still get knocked off of platforms occasionally, but it's almost exclusively because I didn't notice a sorc/bounty hunter in the midst of a group, or I just leaped in and the knockback was already going off to get rid of someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byteresistor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If you can pull ally you can usually catch the ball too. The only problem with Knockback in Huttball is that the results are not reciprocal for melee versus range. If a ranged knocked a melee off a ledge, the melee is in big trouble. If it's the other way around, the ranged just shoots back from below and the melee still can't hit the ranged. That doesn't apply to all melee though. If the ranged is in LoS to shoot the target above then a melee class with charge/force pull is also in LoS to get back into action. It sucks for operatives/non-tank assassins though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamanous Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 It is a sport and a solid tactic. Learn to use it or avoid it. It is part of the match. I love it ... even when pissed off by being victim to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 It is a sport and a solid tactic. Learn to use it or avoid it. It is part of the match. I love it ... even when pissed off by being victim to it. Easy to say when you have it. Try playing a class that gets zero charges, pulls, or knockbacks and see how you feel. The problem isn't they exist. The problem is they are so unfairly distributed across classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiskyBiz Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 You need to define what you think the term Over-Powered means before this question can be answered. The fact that a player can take a reasonable action to prevent being knocked off a ledge tells me that knockback abilities are not OP. OP is a common word, you and everyone else knows exactly what it means. As for the reasonable action to prevent it, please explain because I haven't figured this one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abanoth Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Huttball is like a multiplayer version of a Megaman game where everything is insta-death and you're expected to fight people while dealing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daross Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 OP - no.. thats how Huttball plays. This game is all about positioning, passing and screwing enemy positions. If you dont have pull/push/speed/charge ability of any sort .. then you are UP for game.. Hard to call OP mechanics avaible to almost all. AFAIK that screwed are only Operative and Scoundrel (its my main also - lv50). I simply Leave WZ and queue again for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friction Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I found the ability "Throw the Huttball" to be a great counter for knockback. If you are not the ball carrier, being knocked off a ramp matters very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeusThunder Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 OP is a common word, you and everyone else knows exactly what it means. As for the reasonable action to prevent it, please explain because I haven't figured this one out. Just because it's a common term doesn't mean that everyone is in agreement as to what it means. If you made a new thread asking the community to define what they think "OP" means do you think that every reply would have the same basic definition or would there be disagreements? As it so happens, "reasonable action" is also another term that is hard to define. It is best expressed by using examples I feel-- Example of something that couldn't reasonably be prevented: Ability to stealth while carrying the hutball. Yes, technically one could use AoE or find stealth abilities to find the stealthed person, but it isn't reasonable to ask people to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I found the ability "Throw the Huttball" to be a great counter for knockback. If you are not the ball carrier, being knocked off a ramp matters very little. Well, the most commonly used knockback is aoe. And can be chained into a ranged stun on the same class so you can't throw the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 That doesn't apply to all melee though. If the ranged is in LoS to shoot the target above then a melee class with charge/force pull is also in LoS to get back into action. It sucks for operatives/non-tank assassins though. Yes but it's not a reciprocal relationship in that if a ranged knocked a melee off, he's strictly in a better spot than before. The absolute worst case is the melee used a pull/charge move to get back, but the melee is still down one of his gap closers. In the reverse situation, the best case is that you knocked a ranged off and he has no LoS to shoot you back. Basically the best case for melee knocking a ranged off (nothing happens) is the same as the worst case for ranged knocking melee off (nothing happens). It's not some kind of insurmountable imbalance but ranged classes definitely have a considerable edge when it comes to elevation-related KBs. For the most part, unless I see a ranged guy trying to catch a ball, I won't even try to knock him off because there is literally no point for me (a melee) to do this since if he falls off, I'll have to jump down to finish the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friction Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Well, the most commonly used knockback is aoe. And can be chained into a ranged stun on the same class so you can't throw the ball. I believe every class has an ability to break stun/CC. If you are locked up post-ability use, you were simply outplayed. Each person of my premade understands that they are never to carry the ball without a defensive cooldown on hand. Effective passing and cooldown management wins Huttball games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almalovesme Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I only really raise an eyebrow when I'm knockbacked into the fire at some of the weirdest angles. I'll have a class that can knockback be straight in front of me and their knockback will throw me in a diagonal angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiskyBiz Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 I believe every class has an ability to break stun/CC. If you are locked up post-ability use, you were simply outplayed. Stun/Snare =/= Knockback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golin Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 While I agree that they feel a bit OP I think in the overall flow of PvP they are fine. Remember both sides get characters with knock backs so while some classes do not, both sides will have them. Something cannot be OP if it is given to both teams playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiricahua Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) On the walkway in Voidstar are used it while stealthed to toss 3 enemy player off as kills. When you fall from there it's instant death. But no to nerfing knock backs, and to stealth. Don't nerf anything. Give us brackets that is all. Dont's nerf expertise, or adreanls either. Edited January 10, 2012 by Chiricahua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 While I agree that they feel a bit OP I think in the overall flow of PvP they are fine. Remember both sides get characters with knock backs so while some classes do not, both sides will have them. Something cannot be OP if it is given to both teams playing. What on earth sort of logic is that? If your team happens to be 8 ops and their team happens to be 8 SSes you will lose every time unless they are awful because a SS gets 3 potentially gamewinning abilities (force speed, pull, and knockback) and an op gets 1 (stealth). If how many knockbacks, pulls and charges your team has determines your realistic chance of winning, they need to be evenly distributed among classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friction Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Stun/Snare =/= Knockback My response was in reference to the quote below. Well, the most commonly used knockback is aoe. And can be chained into a ranged stun on the same class so you can't throw the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts