Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged?

[Chevex]

Simple, then don't play on a PvE server

 

I like PvE because I have the option to join an open-world battle or not. Not having the option is no fun. I still say an option for auto-flagging or manual flagging would work great.

[lollie]

Like I said above, this is perfectly suited to an option allowing both of us to choose our preferred behavior. An option allows us to agree to disagree and both be happy.

 

Yeah some games allow some further fine tuning of the flagging mechanic, which would be a win-win for us all.

[ferroz]

I disagree. I think the second this takes is very valuable time when you're in the thick of it and your outnumbered ally's fate could depend on that second. Especially because my instinct is to simply heal him, not to press enter and type /pvp, and press enter again, then heal him. Sounds quick and easy, but in battle time a second is a long time.

then run around flagged, or play on a pvp server.

[Chevex]

Yeah some games allow some further fine tuning of the flagging mechanic, which would be a win-win for us all.

 

I really think this is the no-brainer solution. BioWare should definitely take this under consideration.

[Chevex]

then run around flagged, or play on a pvp server.

 

As I've already stated. Not getting to "pick my battles" is not any fun. But having to take extra time to participate in the battles I do pick also sucks. Option for the win.

[lollie]

Option for the win.

 

Indeed - option for the win.

[Rygho]

Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead.

 

That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged.

 

Star Wars: Galaxies

[ferroz]

As I've already stated. Not getting to "pick my battles" is not any fun. But having to take extra time to participate in the battles I do pick also sucks. Option for the win.

You're weighing your convenience (flagging quickly) over other people ability to pick their battles (not being flagged ever). I think they quite clearly win.

 

the option like RIFT had is the best solution. But if they aren't going to add that, they should make it so that you don't get flagged without typing /pvp and simply cannot affect people who are flagged.

Edited January 18, 2012 by ferroz

[LukeBorgman]

I agree with the OP: SWTOR should consider PvP actions (doing damage to enemies, healing, buffing, or rezzing flagged comrades, anything) disabled and not possible by a player who is not also flagged for PvP. It violates the mutual consent premise of PvE servers.

[Amarinth]

I like PvE because I have the option to join an open-world battle or not. Not having the option is no fun. I still say an option for auto-flagging or manual flagging would work great.

 

Yep, this is what I'd like to see as well. Just a simple toggle between preventing automatic PvP flagging (with it also preventing you having ANY effect on PvP-flagged enemies and allies whatsoever) and allowing it.

 

It would not affect those that like the current auto-flagging and it would make those of us that don't happy as well. The only people that lose out here are the griefers.

[Darkhosis]

Guess I quoted the wrong poster lol- err someone asked to name one MMO with the feature answer below.

 

Rift. Quite a nice feature they have and it works... You can't attack a flagged enemy nor damage them if you have auto flag off.

 

I support the feature being in SWTOR but it sure isn't going to ruin my gameplay. On Shadow Hand I have seen Emp players around but they seem about as interested in PVP as I am.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Darkhosis

[Rhinoplat]

While I'd be perfectly fine with this, there's a lot of people that DO want to do consensual PvP on PvE servers, and I think they'd scream bloody murder about it.

 

I realize that - but that's why PvE servers exist - for PvE exclusive content.

 

If I had it my way, there would be no quests on PvP servers.

 

I'm on the side of the OP - PvE players should not get automatically flagged for using AoEs on PvE servers.

[VelVenturi]

Sadly despite saying that I was going to stick around earlier in this thread I have changed my mind and decided to leave (indeed I have cancelled my sub already) The sole reason for my leaving is this broken mechanic that effectively makes every server a pvp server, which rather defeats the purpose of me rolling on a pve-rp server as I wish to avoid open world pvp.

 

I may well reconsider resubscribing again should they every mend this exploit but while it is still present I won't be

 

I'm just about at this point myself. I really like this game, but this is a deal breaker for me. I'll stick around a little while longer to see if we at least get some kind of acknowledgement.

[Ultrasroma]

I fully agree with the OP. There should be an option to make flagging for PvP impossible as in Rifts.

 

I have absolutely no interest for PvP, and could not care less.

 

In fact, those leeches who follow players from the other side hoping they will trigger an AOE to get flagged are cowards who have no guts to go to the PvP servers and want easy kills.

 

This may be a gamebreaker for a lot of people, myself included, so please Bioware, implement an option so we can avoid PvP.

 

Thank you

[Sabarok]

I disagree. I think the second this takes is very valuable time when you're in the thick of it and your outnumbered ally's fate could depend on that second. Especially because my instinct is to simply heal him, not to press enter and type /pvp, and press enter again, then heal him. Sounds quick and easy, but in battle time a second is a long time.

 

How often does it happen on a PvE server where you are just walking around, and you happen to pass by an ally that's PvP'ing and is in such dire need that you don't have the time to flag up before jumping in to help? This need somehow is more important than the need for PvE players on a PvE server to not get unwillingly ganked by others players? Maybe the solution for you would be if a keybind was added so you could just press a button on the keyboard and become flagged. Maybe your ally is in a pre-planned dual and doesn't want outside help. You're just passing by, you don't know the details of what's going on. You are jumping in blind.

 

All PvP on a PvE server is supposed to be between willing participants.

 

How about the situation where someone is just passing by in the wild and sees another player in a tough PvE fight and losing and wishes to heal, but the target is flagged (and may not have notice). You would say that it's too important to wait for /pvp and the heal should happen, so the caster gets flagged and risks getting killed by another player, a risk they weren't aware they were about to take. On the other hand, the heal should fail because of a non-flag trying to heal a flagged player. The caster fails at the attempt to heal the target, but didn't end up unknowingly being flagged. The recipient, however, failed to receive the heal but by having flagged themselves for PvP, they would knowingly have taken that risk.

 

Losing the support of non-flagged players should be one of the risks a player takes when they choose to go around flagged on a PvE server.

 

If you really want to be that available to participate in any PvP action that happens to be going on at a millisecond's notice, go around flagged in advance.

[VorpalK]

How often does it happen on a PvE server where you are just walking around, and you happen to pass by an ally that's PvP'ing and is in such dire need that you don't have the time to flag up before jumping in to help? This need somehow is more important than the need for PvE players on a PvE server to not get unwillingly ganked by others players? Maybe the solution for you would be if a keybind was added so you could just press a button on the keyboard and become flagged. Maybe your ally is in a pre-planned dual and doesn't want outside help. You're just passing by, you don't know the details of what's going on. You are jumping in blind.

 

All PvP on a PvE server is supposed to be between willing participants.

 

How about the situation where someone is just passing by in the wild and sees another player in a tough PvE fight and losing and wishes to heal, but the target is flagged (and may not have notice). You would say that it's too important to wait for /pvp and the heal should happen, so the caster gets flagged and risks getting killed by another player, a risk they weren't aware they were about to take. On the other hand, the heal should fail because of a non-flag trying to heal a flagged player. The caster fails at the attempt to heal the target, but didn't end up unknowingly being flagged. The recipient, however, failed to receive the heal but by having flagged themselves for PvP, they would knowingly have taken that risk.

 

Losing the support of non-flagged players should be one of the risks a player takes when they choose to go around flagged on a PvE server.

 

If you really want to be that available to participate in any PvP action that happens to be going on at a millisecond's notice, go around flagged in advance.

 

Final comment from me before my sub expires:

 

In Asheron's Call, you couldn't just /pvp to flag. You had to undergo a not-very-trivial quest to the Altar of BaelZ'haron. Unflagging was similarly difficult.

 

typing /pvp is trivial.

 

Autoflagging because you've been forced into it by a griefer who stealths into your AOE range is ridiculous.

 

Since this won't be addressed before my sub expires, I'm gone. I'm not going to gamble on their intent when they won't reveal it.

 

Last Bioware game I ever buy.

[TheToony]

This is why mny account is cancelled. Not the horrid bugs. Not the horrid customer service. This.

 

Throughout beta I constantly asked on the forums if PVP would be forced and was told it wasn't. This is forced PVP. I don't want it. I will not play a game that has it.

[TotalKitty]

Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead.

 

That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged.

 

DC Universe. There you go.

[Chromiie]

This is why mny account is cancelled. Not the horrid bugs. Not the horrid customer service. This.

 

Throughout beta I constantly asked on the forums if PVP would be forced and was told it wasn't. This is forced PVP. I don't want it. I will not play a game that has it.

 

Forced pvp is the only reason I don't play Eve Online. Now that SWG is dead I really want a game with a great crafting system but damn it I don't pvp.

[_Darkstar]

funny...I played CoX. The pvp area flags EVERYONE for pvp. There is nowhere else you can "flag" yourself for pvp.

Well to get to a PvP area kind of indicates you want to PvP, so its the same thing ...

 

If I go to a Warzone in SWTOR I expect to PvP not run around unflagged lol.

 

But I didn't realise this was affecting so many people, we really need some word on this, I wonder if a post on the customer service section might get it looked at since they seem to respond to every little trivial issue over there.

[Shoraan]

I'd like to jump in here for a second, because I saw many people announcing that this bug or unwanted feature would be game-breaking and they refuse to pay for a game like that. Of course, that decision is everyone's personal right and I would much rather see this exploit disappear sooner rather than later.

 

However, wishing for a quick response and even giving a deadline may not be realistic, since this is something neither a single CSR, nor even a single developer would be able to comment on. With so many features and options (and inevitably bugs) in a game it would be hard for anyone to give an accurate statement regarding whether a specific behavior was intended or not.

 

Maybe that particular scenario has not been taken into consideration (although it has been an issue in many other MMOs and was dealt with one way or the other), or maybe they (I'm pretty sure it was not a single person's decision) thought it wouldn't become an issue. At this point I can only speculate why it is possible to flag someone against their will, and I believe most of the CSR and even many developers would have to speculate as well, since in a project of this size not everyone knows about every detail.

 

Just as with the ability delay that is a problem for many but not everyone, I am confident that the people at Bioware are now aware that this is an issue for many (sorry, no percentage here) and that this will hopefully come up in a meeting in the near future where they will hopefully draft a statement that can either be "Working as intended, sorry", "It's a bug, we will fix it in the future" or some other thing. Remember, it took them some time to comment on the ability delay problem.

 

However, as annoying and fun-breaking this may be, we have to be realistic here. This is not game-breaking in a technical sense, as in "people cannot complete their quests" or "the game economy will be destroyed for months if we don't react quickly", and I suppose that currently the number of affected players is still rather small. (It will most likely increase in the future.) Therefore it's probably not on top of their priority list and I assume it's more difficult to fix than e.g. "/getdown".

 

Until this is changed, I suggest we resort to reporting people in-game for exploiting or even harassment when done frequently and improving our Patience stat.

 

TL;DR: Patience, my young padawan.

[_Darkstar]

wishing for a quick response and even giving a deadline may not be realistic, since this is something neither a single CSR, nor even a single developer would be able to comment on. With so many features and options (and inevitably bugs) in a game it would be hard for anyone to give an accurate statement regarding whether a specific behavior was intended or not.

You went on to talk a lot of sense after this, but surely when they designed the game they had a 'plan' and on that plan they would have touched on this subject.

 

I would suspect that almost anyone who had anything to do with the design or programming of this game should know if this is intended of the top of their heads.

 

I would also expect the CSR agents to have a 'go to' person for asking such questions and getting answers.

 

Even if that 'go to' had to escalate up the chain for an answer a simple "We are not sure if this is intended so have asked the design team and will let you know in due course" would settle me down. At least then I know an answer is coming and I can stop posting about it

[Kfab]

I report everyone that force flag me for PvP as abusers ("Reporting Abuse") since that is what they are doing, abusing the PvP system on a PvE server.

 

I do too. I figure it's a way to bring it to BW's attention and to me, it is griefing (harassment). I rolled on a PvE server for a reason.

[Sabarok]

I think the reason this thread hasn't gotten an official response is simply they are too busy to write out a post for every single issue, particularly in the general forum where posts move really fast. Bioware has also said many times that they will not be responding to every issue posted on the forum. If you're willing to unsubscribe because they aren't responding to an issue on the forum, that announcement should have been your cue that you wouldn't be happy

 

They also aren't going to judge the severity of the issue based on how many people post to the thread. The best way to demonstrate the severity of it is to file a ticket for every occurance. If things are so bad that you're getting ganked 5 times in a single day and it's making you want to quit, you should have also filed 5 harassment tickets.

 

You shouldn't fear or worry about getting ganked. There's no serious penalty to it, and every time it happens you can justify filing a harassment ticket and work towards getting it resolved. I don't like the existence of the exploit, but I haven't experienced it once so I don't see it as something worth unsubscribing over..

 

Either the issue is so widespread that Bioware will need to fix the bug in their engine, or the issue is so isolated that GMs can deal with it on a case by case basis. Only by filing tickets will the full scope be known by Bioware.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Sabarok

[Shoraan]

You went on to talk a lot of sense after this, but surely when they designed the game they had a 'plan' and on that plan they would have touched on this subject.

 

I would suspect that almost anyone who had anything to do with the design or programming of this game should know if this is intended of the top of their heads.

[...]

 

Yes, I believe you are right. PvP/PvE mechanics are probably part of the overall design. Thinking about it, if they even separate that issue into different server types, I cannot argue that. I therefore retract my statement that you quoted.

 

Now, if the issue was "can different purple recipes be discovered from re-engineering a blue one" that would be to specific for every person to know, but fortunately that's not the topic here.

 

On a side note, has anyone got any response to an in-game ticket regarding this issue so far?