Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged?

[rangerlump]

I can see where this is a problem. If people wanted to PvP they should be required to intentionally flag first.

 

Having an assassin/operative/scoundrel/Shadow following people around flagged and intentionally getting in AOE is bogus.

 

Sure once, twice, haha funny. When people stalk and harrass its an issue.

 

I havent read this thread, I am sure there is alot of "QQ MOAR CAREBEAR" from HC PvPers.

 

I roll PvP server typically, i see the attitude all the time. If someone was trying to get someone new to MMO's to play their game, they need to fix this.

[fixit]

Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead.

 

That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged.

 

Rift, they had option to never target other PvP flagged players on your faction or do any ability on them: AoE, targeted abilities, etc. Also your AoEs and attacks would not flag or even hit enemies either. They did an excellent job with that one single option. Only way you can PvP in the world is turning off that feature.

 

So I just named an MMO and it's even relevant since it was only released last year.

 

This whole: it's been in WoW for 7 years and is acceptable arguement is moot. Other MMO devs like Trion came up with an excellent solution, so I really hope BW considers it as well.

 

Ya I get it, its awsome to stand on the quest person flagged hoping to catch a newb so your 10 friends can gank em for lolz. I mean if your that gung ho about PvP, man up and go to a PvP realm. I am sure the population will be more than willing to show you a good time.

Edited January 18, 2012 by fixit

[Xenon-se]

Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead.

The MUD i played/developed had a player-setting you could set so it would not flag you as an attacker (and didn't attack enemy players by misstake) when you did random AoE in a room (everyone were always flagged for PvP at all times, there were even friendly fire and in-guild PKs was not uncommon).

 

I don't see why it would be impossible to implement in a Graphic MUD (or MMO as the genre is called nowdays).

 

Then again, trick someone into PvP mode so you could kill them without being labed a killer yourself was a big thing back then. Since not only did your target die and lose experience from doing so. The victim also dropped all their stuff, all their loot, all their expansive heals and all their money they had not put into the bank - and the killer would not even be flagged as a killer since he did it in self defense, so you can't really retaliate either. God I miss playing a multiplay game where dying actually meant something

 

NeoCron and EvEonline had pretty decent systems where dying was more than a corpse run thing.... Might be because they are not developed by american companies... I dont know

 

 

As for level in SWTOR. As Sith I've seen a total of 4 Jedi on my way to level 50 (outside of warzones). As I play on a PvE server (not my choice i might add) all we could do was emote eachother. As level 50 I've seen a total of one level 50 Jedi that were flagged for PvP outside of warzones (it was in ilum, but not the pvp area). Killed him. I also been attacked and killed one Jedi inside the Ilum PvP Zone. That is it. Got almost full champion set but it is all from warzones. World PvP ganking on PvE servers are not really as severe as OP is making it out to be. It is not end of all if you die once in world PvP on your way to 50. All you lose a few minutes. Thats all.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Xenon-se

[HanoverFist]

I can see where this is a problem. If people wanted to PvP they should be required to intentionally flag first.

 

Having an assassin/operative/scoundrel/Shadow following people around flagged and intentionally getting in AOE is bogus.

 

Sure once, twice, haha funny. When people stalk and harrass its an issue.

 

I havent read this thread, I am sure there is alot of "QQ MOAR CAREBEAR" from HC PvPers.

 

I roll PvP server typically, i see the attitude all the time. If someone was trying to get someone new to MMO's to play their game, they need to fix this.

 

 

There have been very few surprisingly enough.

I've gotta say that once was enough for me, I do not pay 15$ a month to be another players entertainment.

[VorpalK]

There have been very few surprisingly enough.

I've gotta say that once was enough for me, I do not pay 15$ a month to be another players entertainment.

 

Exactly correct, particularly when it's not with my consent. This needs to be addressed.

 

My subscription runs out tonight, and if I haven't heard anything from the devs by then, I never will.

Edited January 18, 2012 by VorpalK

[ScarletBlaze]

Actually until they removed the TEF (temporary enemy flag) system it did.

 

Removing the TEF system was one of the first stages of killing the game.

 

For avoidance of doubt I'm not saying OP is wrong - just that the quoted text above is semi-wrong or didn't play at launch.

 

I started playing SWG about a month after the changes so when I started playing I had a choice .

[VorpalK]

I started playing SWG about a month after the changes so when I started playing I had a choice .

 

I didn't start SWG until well after the NGE went into effect. I'm apparently not going to be playing SWTOR after tonight, given there has been no acknowledgement of the issue and its status by BW.

[Thyrodent]

Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead.

 

That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged.

 

Warcraft

[shama]

Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead.

 

That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged.

 

Poor Gorgewall, you will forever be remembered as the person that asked the most stupid question in this thread and did it with such certainty and smugness So many people haven't read the whole thread because they simply get to your second post and instantly have to post a response on how wrong you were!

 

I'm glad to see that the majority response to this thread is still positive, even from players on PvP server. It IS an obvious exploit and a loophole that needs to be addressed, like it was in so many other games before SWTOR.

[reaperkeepet]

So glad I picked a PvP server....

[Scorus]

Do PvE and PvP servers actually have different code? I had assumed that the they were only labels meant to attract those particular types of players, especially since there is only one public test server.

 

If they don't have separate code, then don't expect them to add any. That would require separate testing of all future patches. And finding a solution that could work on PvP servers and not be exploitable will be challenging.

 

I don't PvP and don't like this situation, but we may be stuck with it. If you see someone doing this, start following them around and wait for them to pull it on someone else, then take them out.

 

Scorus

[VorpalK]

So glad I picked a PvP server....

 

That's great. You enjoy that play style and you have a server ruleset that accommodates your preferences.

 

All we're asking for is the same. For PvE to REALLY be PvE for those of us that don't want to PvP, or even just want to PvP consensually.

 

Just one response from Bioware indicating that they're aware of this and addressing it is all I need. Doesn't look like I'm going to get it though, so the game is over for me.

Edited January 18, 2012 by VorpalK

[VorpalK]

Do PvE and PvP servers actually have different code? I had assumed that the they were only labels meant to attract those particular types of players, especially since there is only one public test server.

 

If they don't have separate code, then don't expect them to add any. That would require separate testing of all future patches. And finding a solution that could work on PvP servers and not be exploitable will be challenging.

 

I don't PvP and don't like this situation, but we may be stuck with it. If you see someone doing this, start following them around and wait for them to pull it on someone else, then take them out.

 

Scorus

 

Every other modern MMO that wants subscriptions from PvE players has a way of handling this. Since they're not going to address this, I'm not going to be "Stuck with it".

 

I'll go play something else and never look back. Very disappointing, as I love the game otherwise, but this is a dealbreaker for me. I will not be forced into PvP by a griefing tactic. Ever.

Edited January 18, 2012 by VorpalK

[Saitada]

About the healing thingy...

 

Imagine your friend fighting an enemy and you just walk in and start healing him without your pvp flag being turned on.

 

An enemy can't attack you and he can't even kill the guy he was fighting with because you are healing him.

 

PVP system is just fine, people will whine about anything

 

How about, you can't attck, AOE, heal, buff, or rez PvP players UNLESS you are already PvP flagged?

 

Everquest had PvP this way. Unless you were yourself flagged, you could have no effect on a flagged player of any kind.

 

Bioware dropped the ball on this, or just got lazy with the coding.

 

Roll on a PVE server, you should be unable to do anything to or against a PvP flagged player unless you are PvP flagged yourself. Period.

 

That is a no-brainer.

 

Have a nice day.

 

~Saitada

[ApesAmongUs]

I don't PvP and don't like this situation, but we may be stuck with it.

There is absolutely no situation where I will be "stuck with it".

 

If you see someone doing this, start following them around and wait for them to pull it on someone else, then take them out.

Your solution to being forced into PVP is to voluntarily engage in PVP. Sorry, man, but that's stupid.

 

The proper way to handle the issue is to petition a GM and bug it every time it happens. Then if you get a negative response, immediately petition again. Harass customer support.

[shantale]

I posted the same thing last night on this forums and what I was told its a bug and I reported the players that are doing it so far no response from the lovely Cs.

 

I feel your pain and I even asked for a full refund if its not a bug it clearly states that if I dont want to PVP then I should not have to. PVE servers means PVE not this crap...

 

The game was great until you get to level 40-50 just stinks becasue of this I am so glad to see another post about it!

[shantale]

Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead.

 

That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged.

 

 

Lies- so here eat your dirt buddy-

 

Dark Age Of Camelot-

 

World of War Craft- now I have not played this since release so if it has changed then let me know.

 

Eq2

 

Would you like some more??? I have been playing games since the Mud Days and with the exception of RIft which is the only game I have ever experienced this with.

 

SO take your attitude somewhere else

...

[VorpalK]

I posted the same thing last night on this forums and what I was told its a bug and I reported the players that are doing it so far no response from the lovely Cs.

 

I feel your pain and I even asked for a full refund if its not a bug it clearly states that if I dont want to PVP then I should not have to. PVE servers means PVE not this crap...

 

The game was great until you get to level 40-50 just stinks becasue of this I am so glad to see another post about it!

 

Do you have a link to where you were told this was a bug? I'm looking for something official from Bioware. A link to something verifiable would make me feel better.

[Rhinoplat]

Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead.

 

That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged.

 

On PvE players it shouldn't be an automatic thing. That's the whole thing about PvE servers, they should not have any PvP whatsoever; to include no access to warzones.

 

PvP servers should have access to warzones AND should have guild mini cities that could be fought over; in other words real Open World PvP.

 

The OP is correct, that they shouldn't have to worry about throwing around AoE's and hitting another player.

[SysOpPsyche]

On a PvE server players aren't supposed to be flagged as hostile even if they are opposing faction. Unless BOTH players have flagged themselves for PvP.

 

 

The fact that opposing faction IS flagged as hostile is the problem(Logic Bug/Oversight) and opens up the possibility of player abusing it on PvE servers to grief other players. Running into another players AoE to flag that player for PvP and gank them etc. It was one of the earliest exploits of the Flagging system so its not like its not known.

Edited January 18, 2012 by SysOpPsyche

[VorpalK]

On PvE players it shouldn't be an automatic thing. That's the whole thing about PvE servers, they should not have any PvP whatsoever; to include no access to warzones.

 

While I'd be perfectly fine with this, there's a lot of people that DO want to do consensual PvP on PvE servers, and I think they'd scream bloody murder about it.

[Tsavis]

Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead.

 

That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged.

 

In WoW it doesn't if you have pvp flag off and aoe, and the enemy is flagged you don't autoflag. I know because I have done it and never got flagged or attacked and my aoe did not harm the players invading sw until I switched my flag.

[Saitada]

You know that's the norm in every MMO from EQ, UO, to WoW, AoC, all the rest, right? Ya, that's completely normal on that and it's intended.

 

See, the issue is that if the player is not flagged, they're not targetable, however if they are flagged, they're targetable and can be attacked. The other player is essentially trying to harass you by previously flagging themselves manually, and then running into your AOE just so you'd flag your self. Sorry, but this is the other player's fault, and life is rough. There is no mommy or daddy to protect you from this bully, you're going to have to figure it out yourself and face your bully your way (by walking away or fighting).

 

 

As for the healing one, it's a purposeful mechanic for the reason that if [For Example] you come across a Sith fighting a Jedi and you heal the Sith, well that essentially puts you into that fight and makes you part of it. So, to heal someone that is PvP flagged it because the game sees you as an active participant of their PvP actions.

 

Um.. Norm? In EQ? yeah right. Sorry buddy I played EQ and if you were PvP flagged, you couldn't be healed by a person who was NOT pvp flaged. You couldn't be atacked by a person that was NOT Pvp Flagged, and you couldn't be buffed by a person that was NOT pvp flagged, even when you were in a group with them.

 

I know because I partied a lot with friends who PvP'd and they died occasionally because I couldn't heal them or help them in any way.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble cupcake, but obviously you didn't play EQ.

 

~Saitada

[VorpalK]

Um.. Norm? In EQ? yeah right. Sorry buddy I played EQ and if you were PvP flagged, you couldn't be healed by a person who was NOT pvp flaged. You couldn't be atacked by a person that was NOT Pvp Flagged, and you couldn't be buffed by a person that was NOT pvp flagged, even when you were in a group with them.

 

I know because I partied a lot with friends who PvP'd and they died occasionally because I couldn't heal them or help them in any way.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble cupcake, but obviously you didn't play EQ.

 

~Saitada

 

Yea, the people actually defending this mechanic are pretty ridiculous. Probably the same people that screamed over Trammel in UO as they watched all their victims pack up and move out of reach.

[DarthKhaos]

Till it is changed you better watch how you toss about those Aoes is all I can say.

 

This is an isolated situation where you get flagged for hitting a player that happen to be in the area with an AoE. You know it happens now, so untill it is changed deal with it and stop tossing AoE's like gnomes when there's an enemy player near by.