RealAeiouy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Are you implying that someone would rather just be ignorant and oblivious to what is going on? The information is there. People who don't need logs are more vigilant and aware. People who need logs dont pay attention and then post mortem via parser instead of paying attention. So it is in fact just the opposite. The oblivious players need parsing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The information is there. People who don't need logs are more vigilant and aware. People who need logs dont pay attention and then post mortem via parser instead of paying attention. So it is in fact just the opposite. The oblivious players need parsing You cannot know how much damage people are doing especially when you can't even keep track of any damage they are doing. You can only assume they are doing something when their character is doing combat animations. To follow 3/7/15 other players while paying attention to what you are doing is just illogical and you would require some level of god like situational awareness to accomplish this. Be realistic here otherwise people will simply shrug you off as a baffoone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babynubnub Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Cloaking in badness? Ignorant? I'm seeing the pattern now. You kids have fun. Peace out. The pattern is that people don't want to know what they themselves are doing or what other people are doing, from a relative measurement frame of reference, and that they will accept this blissful ignorance and get carried. Sounds lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Nobody in this entire 85 page "debate" has made one good argument against meters. Sounds mostly like people interested in cloaking their "badness" Lol that is the same dumb argument bad players who can't do content without meters always use. Problem is we are calling you on it. If you can only do content with meters you are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No, just really lacking any kind of understanding why people would not want to know their own and other performance. The whole "well i get booted out of other games because of marginal under performance" deal I dont buy, doing like 1 - 3 percent less dps than the average doesn't get you kicked out, or healing for that matter, but it's doing markedly worse than everyone else, 15, 25, 35 percent under performance. How come you can't do content without meters? Lots of players can. Do you need an easy mode? If so just say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babynubnub Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 How come you can't do content without meters? Lots of players can. Do you need an easy mode? If so just say so. are you doing so little that meters would call you out? sounds like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 You cannot know how much damage people are doing especially when you can't even keep track of any damage they are doing. You can only assume they are doing something when their character is doing combat animations. To follow 3/7/15 other players while paying attention to what you are doing is just illogical and you would require some level of god like situational awareness to accomplish this. Be realistic here otherwise people will simply shrug you off as a baffoone. Learn teamwork, learn social skills, learn to play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babynubnub Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Lol that is the same dumb argument bad players who can't do content without meters always use. Problem is we are calling you on it. If you can only do content with meters you are bad. where is the implication that anyone NEEDS meters to do content? its just that certain people who are getting carried can be easily identified and weeded out, if you cant do end game content with meters, you're bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpassailant Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Hello I am forming a raid but that person can't join it because he only did 999 dps and my requirement is 1000 dps. Sorry I have ridiculous standards and if you don't meet them you will be kicked mid raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Learn teamwork, learn social skills, learn to play the game. Eating your own words there. Learn some social skills dude. I don't see how anyone can really stand your personality on the internet. They don't need to know how bad you are via recount to understand you are just a jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 are you doing so little that meters would call you out? sounds like it Lol no I can do content without training wheels so I am better than you. Just be honest and admit games are too hard without parsing for you. We will understand. But stop pretending people who need an easier game are better. That is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolthie Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Lol no I can do content without training wheels so I am better than you. Just be honest and admit games are too hard without parsing for you. We will understand. But stop pretending people who need an easier game are better. That is absurd. It's not about it being too hard without recount, obviously it isn't since it has been beaten by many so stop with you ridiculous "arguments", please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babynubnub Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Lol no I can do content without training wheels so I am better than you. Just be honest and admit games are too hard without parsing for you. We will understand. But stop pretending people who need an easier game are better. That is absurd. Meters are training wheels, that's the most illogical argument in this thread, achievement unlocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 where is the implication that anyone NEEDS meters to do content? its just that certain people who are getting carried can be easily identified and weeded out, if you cant do end game content with meters, you're bad. If you can't do content without training wheels we understand just say so. Don't try to act all macho and tough about it though. Do you claim doing content with dps meters is harder than doing it without? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Hes trolling and not contributing anything to the conversation and definitely belittling his own side of the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Meters are training wheels, that's the most illogical argument in this thread, achievement unlocked. So your position is doing content with meters is harder, explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbrewed Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Do you all think meters lead to min/maxing? I believe they do, people naturally wanna squeeze out every little bit more damage they can out of there class. The inherent problem with the min/maxing mind set is that "optimal" builds are discovered to maximize damage. Not that, that in itself is a problem. But once that one true build is made public, the majority of people gravitate to that build. Once again rightfully so. But this creates the "cookie cutter" builds, where you have everyone almost identically specced the same and this kills hybrid or any variant from the cookie cutter build. Which makes the classes a bit stale and predictable. I personally think the min/max mindset ultimately undermines the mmo genre and eventually leads to a demise of talent trees. World of Warcraft is a perfect example, they saw everyone specced the same and removed hybrid builds, and in MOP they have removed the trees all together. This is not a direct fault of meters, but rather a consequence of them in the game. Once again, I understand everyone's argument for them, but just understand that the long term consequences might not be good for the game. Just my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolthie Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 So your position is doing content with meters is harder, explain. So you say doing content without a damagemeter is harder, explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinaman Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Hes trolling and not contributing anything to the conversation and definitely belittling his own side of the argument. He might as well. Neither side is listening to the other at this point and nobody is going to change their mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Hes trolling and not contributing anything to the conversation and definitely belittling his own side of the argument. How am I trolling ? You guys claim people who don't use meters are bad and using meters is harder. That is trolling. None of you can even defend the position you have. You claim bad players don't want meters but players who do not use meters are clearly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Do you all think meters lead to min/maxing? I believe they do, people naturally wanna squeeze out every little bit more damage they can out of there class. The inherent problem with the min/maxing mind set is that "optimal" builds are discovered to maximize damage. Not that, that in itself is a problem. But once that one true build is made public, the majority of people gravitate to that build. Once again rightfully so. But this creates the "cookie cutter" builds, where you have everyone almost identically specced the same and this kills hybrid or any variant from the cookie cutter build. Which makes the classes a bit stale and predictable. I personally think the min/max mindset ultimately undermines the mmo genre and eventually leads to a demise of talent trees. World of Warcraft is a perfect example, they saw everyone specced the same and removed hybrid builds, and in MOP they have removed the trees all together. This is not a direct fault of meters, but rather a consequence of them in the game. Once again, I understand everyone's argument for them, but just understand that the long term consequences might not be good for the game. Just my thoughts Recount or not. This is going to happen anyways especially in PvP. Recount and really any measuring add on are useless for PvP. You simply cannot change people's frame of mind. You are asking for something that would be clearly out of any company's power to accomplish there. People are going to find something that works and then make it public. People who can't figure it out on their own and just want to succeed will copy it and it will just happen all over again. Its inevitable parsers or not. Edited January 15, 2012 by Kabloosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaed Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Do you claim doing content with dps meters is harder than doing it without? The content itself is no less difficult with meters. Meters won't tell you when to move or when to stay still or when to use a particular ability. Meters will help you more easily gauge your own performance and the performance of others. So meters don't actually make the content any less difficult, they simply make it easier to see where the problem lies if the group keeps on wiping, and clearer as to how you might go about fixing the problem. If you're a hardcore number-cruncher-math-wiz, I can see why you'd think meters make everything too easy. Thing is, not everyone finds math so interesting and would have more fun if a tool did it for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Math is not required to successfully do content so no that is not it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Because some people appreciate feeling every bump in the road instead of having digital representations of them flashing on their dashboard. This is pretty much _the_ argument against mods. Thanks, I could never find a good way of saying this Edited January 15, 2012 by Truga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaarina Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Please do not allow, that will turn it into a dps race and reason to be snotty and rude. It will cause some players not to even chance the humiliation of being new and still learning. Everyone enjoy the game as it is and work to conquer not count on meter to say if you are doing good or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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