TheRealDestian Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can anyone point out, since I've only played up to 30-35 on a Consular and Agent, an instance where a choice taken through dialogue options had lasting effects on their character story? Everything I've seen, up to this point, suggest that choices only adjust your storyline in the most superficial ways, immediately changing a bit of dialogue, but having no other memorable effect. For instance, choosing to spare a ruthlessly evil Sith, only to have that character come back later on, or forever change the possibility of options and outcomes later on... that would be an example of lasting effects. When interacting with an NPC, you might choose some insulting words, the NPC make a resentful remark, but then otherwise continue the conversation as if you'd done nothing wrong. This is to be expected to a large extent, since writers don't have enough time to write out branching story lines with multiple possible outcomes - what you really get are a few "flavor" options, but eventually all roads collapse to a single point, with a single outcome. So far I've accepted this for what it is, but there seem to be some people in this thread who claim this isn't the case. I'd like to be wrong. I don't care to discuss the matter of light/dark points, it's a stupid, inarticulate system that isn't worth thinking about. I just want to know about ramifications. And the problem is simply that, if Bioware made these choices have a huge impact on the rest of the game, people would whine endlessly that they "unknowingly made the wrong choice". This is the lesser of two evils. Trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascivious Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Well said al_giordino, well said. However, in Bioware's defense, they did say they are making a rail game, WoW clone - they did not lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneirophrenia Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 And the problem is simply that, if Bioware made these choices have a huge impact on the rest of the game, people would whine endlessly that they "unknowingly made the wrong choice". This is the lesser of two evils. Trust me. True. A lot of Sith Warriors are already griping about the light/dark side Jaesa romance issue or choosing between Vette and Jaesa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veala Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can anyone point out, since I've only played up to 30-35 on a Consular and Agent, an instance where a choice taken through dialogue options had lasting effects on their character story? Everything I've seen, up to this point, suggest that choices only adjust your storyline in the most superficial ways, immediately changing a bit of dialogue, but having no other memorable effect. For instance, choosing to spare a ruthlessly evil Sith, only to have that character come back later on, or forever change the possibility of options and outcomes later on... that would be an example of lasting effects. When interacting with an NPC, you might choose some insulting words, the NPC makes a resentful remark, but then otherwise continues the conversation as if you'd done nothing wrong. This is to be expected to a large extent, since writers don't have enough time to write out branching story lines with multiple possible outcomes - what you really get are a few "flavor" options, but eventually all roads collapse to a single point, with a single outcome. So far I've accepted this for what it is, but there seem to be some people in this thread who claim this isn't the case. I'd like to be wrong. I don't care to discuss the matter of light/dark points, it's a stupid, inarticulate system that isn't worth thinking about. I just want to know about ramifications. I can verify that the IA story ends differently depending on the choices you make at each of the Act finales. Obviously I've only seen the ending I got, but there's a thread on the IA forums about each ending and how you get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Areka Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Choice is always an illusion, even in single player RPGs. After all, you simply cannot go beyond what is coded in the game. Expecting a MMORPG to be like Dragon Age: Origins or Baldur's Gate 2, considering the genre difference is not realistic. The story focus on SWTOR cannot be the same as DAO. The same as you cannot have some style of single player mechanics in an MMORPG (like killing companions). Unfortunately. I can play two Troopers and altough the general story is exactly the same, the details can be widely different. Yes, both can do all the same quests (or not, most quests are optionals and you can skip many and still level up fine) but the choices they make can be very different. And that makes them different persons. Roleplaying is more than "I saved Taris from the Fanghouls" or "I doomed Taris to the Fanghouls". The choices I make with my Medic in the quests define her as person. If I were to play another trooper, I could play the same story with a whole different person playing those same events. "But it is still on rails!" *points at firts paragraph of this post* No that I cannot agree with that it would be cool to have more flexibility in areas that you can visit to do quests and that are not precisely in the class quests areas. Maybe with more time as they decide to add extra content for low levels to "add to replayability". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisftw Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 came into this thread to spot the WOW references in the OP's post. everything looks in order here. moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorbrand Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The OP is right. Choice means nothing in the game and has no impact on anything outside of LS/DS points. Also, MMO it is not since Massively is more than a few dozen people on a shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrinic Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This thread is a reposting of the same thread he made a while back lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumpiduke Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can anyone point out, since I've only played up to 30-35 on a Consular and Agent, an instance where a choice taken through dialogue options had lasting effects on their character story? Everything I've seen, up to this point, suggest that choices only adjust your storyline in the most superficial ways, immediately changing a bit of dialogue, but having no other memorable effect. For instance, choosing to spare a ruthlessly evil Sith, only to have that character come back later on, or forever change the possibility of options and outcomes later on... that would be an example of lasting effects. Unforunately, choices in this game are actually an illusion in that they don’t have lasting effects on the story as a whole. At the same time, I think it’s completely understandable why the system is the way it is. This is an MMO, meaning that players have the option of leveling with friends. Can you imagine the nightmare of trying to level with your friends when you’re constantly forced to take separate story paths because one of you decided to go light side as opposed to dark side? Having lasting effects on anything other than your class quest would simply be impossible to accomplish. Choices are very basic and only relate to the current quest at hand…but I’m actually ok with that. I understand that this is a multiplayer game and I can accept that the biggest choice you make to altering the game’s story stops at character creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_giordino Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) In an RPG, you get to roleplay a unique character of your own design. In SWTOR, you get to roleplay a unique looking character with the same backstory that the developers gave all of your class. When I talk about "choice" it's not necessarily just the choice of dialogue responses. It's the choice of activities that level your character and give them a meaning, purpose, and backstory in your mind - a story of your own. Don't admit it if you don't want to, but at level 50, you and everyone of your class have experienced the EXACT same story, you have the EXACT same background, and the EXACT same companions, EXACT same ship, etc. Plus or minus some side quests. The only thing you can control is talent points and that's not the end all, be all, of role playing a unique character - thus SWTOR isn't much of an RPG. It's more like an action adventure MMO on rails. Edited January 10, 2012 by al_giordino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abishe Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 In an RPG, you get to roleplay a unique character of your own design. In SWTOR, you get to roleplay a unique looking character with the same backstory that the developers gave all of your class. When I talk about "choice" it's not necessarily just the choice of dialogue responses. It's the choice of activities that level your character and give them a meaning, purpose, and backstory in your mind - a story of your own. Don't admit it if you don't want to, but at level 50, you and everyone of your class have experienced the EXACT same story, you have the EXACT same background, and the EXACT same companions, EXACT same ship, etc. Plus or minus some side quests. The only thing you can control is talent points and that's not the end all, be all, of role playing a unique character - thus SWTOR isn't much of an RPG. It's more like an action adventure MMO on rails. you even look the same, if both are playing for PvP only mods are locked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealDestian Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The only thing you can control is talent points and that's not the end all, be all, of role playing a unique character - thus SWTOR isn't much of an RPG. It's more like an action adventure MMO on rails. ...and WoW IS? What exactly is your point, here? As near as I or anyone else can tell, you're crying because SWTOR isn't the SIMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalenaria Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Welcome to real life? I mean welcome to games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velocity-x Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Completely illusion of choice. Saying that your "should I kill him or let him live?" choices as you progress matter for anything other than light/dark points is seriously laughable. Play the same class twice, then come back and tell us how different the experience was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedwash Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes you have infinite choice in TES series to steal from whomever you wish and kill whomever you wish. Unless of course that person is a quest giver or somehow decided by the game to be "important." Then they suddenly have the gift of immortality. It's not freedom if you can't kill EVERYONE!!! EDIT: Damn, someone beat me to it! Interestingly enough, in TES: Morrowind, you could literally kill main story people - but if you did all you got was a nice notice saying "Good job, hope you have a previous restore point because this game in now over", since you could no longer continue the storyline. But on to the discussion at hand. Yes, I honestly do wish there had been a couple (don't need a lot, just a few) 'side' planets to do some questing on that have no bearing on the overall character story. This was the thing that made me not stick with Rift for long - since there you started in the same area no matter what class you choose, and then went to the exact same zones to level in order. WoW is exactly the same way, just feels more wide open since there were a couple other places, but in reality you were folowing the same line you did on the last character. If a game has an overall story to it, you can bet you will be moved along that story whether you want to or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrNuncheon Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 So, here's choice in WOW: I'm a dranei paladin in Northrend, and a wizard from the Kirin Tor has a magic pain stick, and he wants me to torture a captive for information. “You see, the Kirin Tor code of conduct frowns upon our taking certain ‘extreme’ measures – even in desperate times such as these. You, however, as an outsider, are not bound by such restrictions and could take any steps necessary in the retrieval of information." So, you don't want to get your hands dirty, and you're asking a paladin to do it for you? *&$% you, buddy. I dropped the quest, but I was so ticked off I logged out and went to do something else. Meanwhile, in SWTOR: I haven't played enough Sith to be able to pick an actual torture quest example, but there's one Republic side on Taris where you can choose to steal a vaccine from a bunch of pirates (and condemn them to a horrible torturous death) or go look for it somewhere else. I took the quick and easy way on my smuggler (they're only pirates - good riddance, right?) and the merciful way on my Jedi. Yeah, both paths ended up in the same place, but how I got there was different. The NPCs reacted to the choices I made, even if it was just for that moment. And that made it about a hundred times more enjoyable than any quest I've done in WOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulaufein Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 "CHOICE IS AN ILLUSION". Feeling like Alice, tumbling down the rabbit hole? Next time, don't take blue pill. Welcome to the "real" world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_giordino Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Lol whose crying? Whose complaining? I am providing FEEDBACK. Note the OP if you read it, you'd have learned I am a Star Wars fanboy and still playing SWTOR. So suck it, all you "defenders" who come in to every post and bash anyone who provides FEEDBACK to the developers, you're all ridiculous and worse than the OPs you rail against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobHouse Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 In Fallout 3 I killed that DJ in the Washington ruins we are now mortal foes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avrose Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Unless of course you're light side. The OP is right. Much of the choice in this game is an illusion. You make one choice at the beginning of the game, and then much of your path is set out before you. Then play skyrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badbonez Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Of course it's an illusion. You can't have real choices that have real consequences down long, windy decision paths with millions of people playing. Everyone would chose a unique route and how would you program the infinite possibilities? But at least it is fun and there are some consequences, even if a little generic. It's a change of pace and I like the way it's going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanharn Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The OP has clearly not played the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 In an RPG, you get to roleplay a unique character of your own design. The entire gaming community of Japan would like a word with you. That said, TOR actually accomplishes this far better than most other video game RPGs. The character creation has a some decent options, and there remains some choice to dialogue. In TOR, I can choose between letting a kid run off with his well-meaning father, or blasting the father in front of the kid and turning him into a Sith. In just about any Final Fantasy game, you get to choose your character's name, if that. In SWTOR, you get to roleplay a unique looking character with the same backstory that the developers gave all of your class. When I talk about "choice" it's not necessarily just the choice of dialogue responses. It's the choice of activities that level your character and give them a meaning, purpose, and backstory in your mind - a story of your own. Don't admit it if you don't want to, but at level 50, you and everyone of your class have experienced the EXACT same story, you have the EXACT same background, and the EXACT same companions, EXACT same ship, etc. Plus or minus some side quests. More or less, yes, everyone gets the same background by level 50. I never really expected otherwise from a Bioware themepark mmo, though. If I REALLY wanted to roleplay, I wouldn't be searching for such from any mmo in the first place. Instead, I'd be down at the local gaming cafe with my D20's and a character sheet. MMO's are a poor platform for the kind of choice and freedom you want, that's what pen and paper games are for. You should try them out. The only thing you can control is talent points and that's not the end all, be all, of role playing a unique character - thus SWTOR isn't much of an RPG. It's more like an action adventure MMO on rails. What MMO do you know of that you DO consider an RPG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_giordino Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 OMG... the "choice" he refers to must be the dialogue choices!! NOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertouch Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 you need an mmo that largely feeds off player-driven politics and populations that make the game world feel like a living, breathing thing. that hasn't been done since -- you guessed it -- everquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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