LFG Tool is NOT Needed

[Taroen]

You're saying that a LFD tool would make the current situation worse? You're full of ****.

 

The current situation being..?

[Kurnea]

The current situation being..?

 

Sitting around in fleet and spamming general with 'LFG, need tank and healer!'

[Hautaaja]

Sitting around in fleet and spamming general with 'LFG, need tank and healer!'

 

What he said.

[WickedDjinn]

There is no reasonable argument against a LFG tool. Having has no negative impact. It will only lead to more players enjoying more content more often.

 

Do we need it? Of course not. We don't need mechanics that Remove the threat of mob trains either.

 

Not having a dungeon finder is backward, archaic... Straight up out-dated and BW will realize this. The sheer number of players Demanding it will force its implementation.

[Moricthian]

No... It doesn't require you to do that. Join a guild with like-minded players. When you run content with good people who aren't in your guild, befriend them. Hell, make friends with their guild too. At this point, I'm welcome on several vent servers (mumble teamspeak whatever) besides my own guild's. It's slow at first, but it snowballs, and it is really so much better.

 

You have to find a group to do that first. The amount of time and runs required to meet enough good people in order to find groups would take a long time. Notice the vicious cycle here. The only way to get groups with people is to run with good people that you've already ran with. The only way to run with good people is to get group together in the first place. Do you see the problem here?

 

 

 

 

Won't more than can't. That doesn't mean that it's a lobby game. It just means that they're too anti-social to play a multiplayer game without having their hands held.

 

I'm actually addressing this to BW, not you as I'm sure you won't listen to what I'm talking about. BW, please understand that many of us try to get groups as best we can. Despite what this guy says, I'll do whatever it takes to not sit around the fleet for an hour looking for groups. But for all my effort and good intentions, "being social" just isn't good enough for me to get groups. This is the case for a lot of players. I'm certainly willing to be social, its just the current system is not conducive to finding groups for a lot of people

 

Adding a LFD will make it so that the content needs to be tooled to a group of random people mashed together by the finder. Dumbing down the game even more just because some people are too lazy to socialize with other people in a social game is no solution. It made WoW boring and pointless, and right now this game is NOT boring and pointless.

 

Don't make it become that way.

 

Making it easier to find groups has nothing to do with how difficult dungeons are to complete. BW can easily make a LFG and then proceed to not nerf flashpoint content. Again, addressed to BW:

 

You made this game, please implement a LFG finder and then don't nerf the content so that it is faceroll. You've created the game in the first place, I'm pretty sure you can manage this.

[Nolimit_SS]

Having spent last week spamming general every day for hours I say yes it's !@#$ing needed.

And this is on heavy populated server.

[Brool]

Here is why....

 

I played WoW for 7 years. Groups used to be great. Then an LFG tool was introduced. After that it was hard to keep a group together because the first time everyone died people would drop group for a new one. After the LFG tool was introduced people in groups also turned into asses about jsut about everything that didn't go their way.

 

So in regards to an LFG tool, I say hell no.

 

EDIT: I NEVER have a hard time find a group, and I'm not in a guild.

 

Happens in everygame, LFG/LFM tool will be a huge improvement to the game.

 

Just because you dont think one is needed, doesnt mean that the rest of us dont feel one is warrented.

 

also, othre MMO's core feature is the LFG/LFM feature that works perfectly for them and would fit perfectly here. (something similiar to DDO's LFG/LFM panel)

[Dosblade]

Way to many times I have stood and asked for LFG for over 1/2 and the server is heavy.. so please.. OP.. you don't speak for all. And in WOW.. I've never had people just die and leave or what ever.. again its not the same for ALL.

[WickedDjinn]

You have to find a group to do that first. The amount of time and runs required to meet enough good people in order to find groups would take a long time. Notice the vicious cycle here. The only way to get groups with people is to run with good people that you've already ran with. The only way to run with good people is to get group together in the first place. Do you see the problem here?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm actually addressing this to BW, not you as I'm sure you won't listen to what I'm talking about. BW, please understand that many of us try to get groups as best we can. Despite what this guy says, I'll do whatever it takes to not sit around the fleet for an hour looking for groups. But for all my effort and good intentions, "being social" just isn't good enough for me to get groups. This is the case for a lot of players. I'm certainly willing to be social, its just the current system is not conducive to finding groups for a lot of people

 

 

 

Making it easier to find groups has nothing to do with how difficult dungeons are to complete. BW can easily make a LFG and then proceed to not nerf flashpoint content. Again, addressed to BW:

 

You made this game, please implement a LFG finder and then don't nerf the content so that it is faceroll. You've created the game in the first place, I'm pretty sure you can manage this.

 

You can read it in these responses. We're dealing with an elitist minority that want dungeons to be the play grounds of guilds and players who meet some special standard.

[Taroen]

If you opened your eyes you would have realized this is exactly what we are already doing in SWTOR.

 

Who is this "we" you're speaking of..? It's certainly not what *I'm* doing. I've met enough people to where there is usually an excess for any given run and we need to switch people out for the next one. If you're seriously in a position that the only way you can get a group is to spam the general chat and run blind with random people, I feel for you... sort of.

 

Maybe you need to look for other options...

[Taroen]

What he said.

 

I guess there is always going to be people who think that there are only two options...

 

1) Spam general

2) Random group tool

 

Even when you lay out other options for them they claim that they can't do it or they just revert back to those two lonely options.

 

But if other people are doing it successfully, then you can too. Those people who are getting groups constantly aren't just lucky. They know that there is more than two options.

[Halbe]

Asked and answered... several times... including in the post just above this one.

 

No, you didn't. You avoided it all together. The question is, how does a LFG function change CURRENT social interaction. All of your answers skate around the issue, as I'll explain:

 

No... It doesn't require you to do that. Join a guild with like-minded players. When you run content with good people who aren't in your guild, befriend them. Hell, make friends with their guild too. At this point, I'm welcome on several vent servers (mumble teamspeak whatever) besides my own guild's. It's slow at first, but it snowballs, and it is really so much better.

 

This is NOT a function of the current set-up, and WOULD NOT change with a LFD finder. Again, how does social interaction change with a LFD finder. All of the above mentioned, every single point would be and will still be valid points if/when a LFD function is put into place. I will state again, the action of FORMING a group is not the social interaction you all are point too, but instead the grouping itself. I gain NOTHING from the formation of the group. I don't make a friend by clicking invite. I don't make a friend by spamming in General. I don't make a friend by whispering if they need a group.

 

Tell me this. Can you tell how good a player is by if they invite you? Or do you need the actual action of grouping? If you want me to join a guild, join vent server, ect, then I need to know they are good people. Do I get that from a single invite? OR do I get that when I'm in the group playing and interacting with them?

 

Won't more than can't. That doesn't mean that it's a lobby game. It just means that they're too anti-social to play a multiplayer game without having their hands held.

 

It's funny. You get to define the term "Lobby Game" as you deem, to fit exactly your argument. If anything, in your context, a LFD tool would TAKE AWAY the lobby. I'll explain...

 

Right now, if I want to do a FP, I run to the Fleet. I start asking around. I send my companions out, I browse the GTN. All of the actions I perform, I could do with the graphics turned off. Seriously, just give me the chat window and the GTN screen, and I can do it.

 

With a LFD tool? I get to go out and quest/adventure while I wait. I'm not stuck in transit half the time, only to find there are no players wanting to do my instance. Again, I'm not stuck in a lobby.

 

Adding a LFD will make it so that the content needs to be tooled to a group of random people mashed together by the finder. Dumbing down the game even more just because some people are too lazy to socialize with other people in a social game is no solution. It made WoW boring and pointless, and right now this game is NOT boring and pointless.

 

Huh? So where do these players go? The ones that would use the LFD tool? Do they just give up? Do they not play anymore? Those same "lazy" people would still try to find groups with other random players. The population doesn't change because of a LFD tool. That's just an incorrect assertion.

 

You're saying its better to be mashed together as a party because they were the first 3 players to respond than it is automatically? How does that even make sense? In my brief association with someone:

 

"Hey, you need a group for RR?"

"SURE!"

 

That doesn't tell me a lot about the person. I have no idea how they play. The idea that things get dumbed down because of a LFD is laughable. It's the same freaking population. That population just groups in 5 minutes instead of 50.

 

Unless you consider boredom difficulty.

 

The point still stands. Tell me how the FORMATION of groups (no, not the interaction in them, not how they perform, none of that, because that isn't what a LFD tool does. It forms groups, nothing more) is different from a social/experience standpoint than it is now.

 

Once a group is formed is when the actual social aspects come into play. Not before.

 

After I group, if I enjoy it, sure, I'll friend them. I'll invite them again.

 

But that occurs even if I use a LFD tool. I don't have to use the chat box for that.

[Ghoulishtie]

I fully agree with the OP. This game is already easy. We don't need to be treated like babies.

[WickedDjinn]

I guess there is always going to be people who think that there are only two options...

 

1) Spam general

2) Random group tool

 

Even when you lay out other options for them they claim that they can't do it or they just revert back to those two lonely options.

 

But if other people are doing it successfully, then you can too. Those people who are getting groups constantly aren't just lucky. They know that there is more than two options.

 

Irrelevant. Dungeon finders aren't the only option, but they are the best option.

[WickedDjinn]

I fully agree with the OP. This game is already easy. We don't need to be treated like babies.

 

That makes no sense. You might as well roll back every advancement in mmos by that logic.

[savagepotato]

If you look at the impact all these convenience factors pioneered by WoW, they bear a lot of negative consequences for the game.

 

• Reducing a need to form a community, Guilds, etc.
  
• Reducing dependency on other players.
  
• Rewarding anti-social behavior.
  
• Promoting negative behavior (loot ninjas, etc).
  
• Removing consequences for ones actions.
  

 

To me it's just not worth it. The convenience factor versus the complete destruction of the community. There has to be a better solution out there which hasn't been found yet.

 

I do not wish to play world of warcraft. If I did, I would go play it. It's fully available and offering it's socially bankrupt community.

 

You can argue "well you can just not use the dungeon finder." till the end of time, but that absolutely does not address the incredibly negative effects that come along with it, and are unavoidable with it's existence.

[WickedDjinn]

If you look at the impact all these convenience factors pioneered by WoW, they bear a lot of negative consequences for the game.

 

• Reducing a need to form a community, Guilds, etc.
  
• Reducing dependency on other players.
  
• Rewarding anti-social behavior.
  
• Promoting negative behavior (loot ninjas, etc).
  
• Removing consequences for ones actions.
  

 

To me it's just not worth it. The convenience factor versus the complete destruction of the community. There has to be a better solution out there which hasn't been found yet.

 

I do not wish to play world of warcraft. If I did, I would go play it. It's fully available and offering it's socially bankrupt community.

 

You can argue "well you can just not use the dungeon finder." till the end of time, but that absolutely does not address the incredibly negative effects that come along with it, and are unavoidable with it's existence.

 

That happened in your imagination.

[Taroen]

You have to find a group to do that first. The amount of time and runs required to meet enough good people in order to find groups would take a long time. Notice the vicious cycle here. The only way to get groups with people is to run with good people that you've already ran with. The only way to run with good people is to get group together in the first place. Do you see the problem here?

 

Start with a guild. Not just any random guild. Look one up in the forums and find one you like. Form groups with that. Even just partial groups are good too, because one guildie might know a guy in another guild that wants to go. Even if you get stuck looking for one person in general, or actually asking individuals if they want to come, the pool of people you can pull from to run groups will increase. That's assuming that the new guy is a decent person and you like him. Keep doing that. Rinse and repeat. Get voice chat. Before you know it, the pool of people you can draw from at any given time becomes more than what you even require. At one point you become familiar with people in other guilds and might even become welcome to join their voice chat servers. If your guild isn't doing anything, maybe theirs is at the moment.

 

It's a social game. SOCIALIZE.

 

Spamming the general chat is NOT socializing...

 

 

I'm actually addressing this to BW, not you as I'm sure you won't listen to what I'm talking about. BW, please understand that many of us try to get groups as best we can. Despite what this guy says, I'll do whatever it takes to not sit around the fleet for an hour looking for groups. But for all my effort and good intentions, "being social" just isn't good enough for me to get groups. This is the case for a lot of players. I'm certainly willing to be social, its just the current system is not conducive to finding groups for a lot of people

 

Dude you seem like a decent enough guy. I wish I could prove it to you. I enjoy my current experience much more than I ever did the random crap in WoW. If I can do it so can you. Hell, if you were on my server (Space Slug) I would be happy to invite you in and run some stuff with you.

 

Making it easier to find groups has nothing to do with how difficult dungeons are to complete. BW can easily make a LFG and then proceed to not nerf flashpoint content. Again, addressed to BW:

 

You made this game, please implement a LFG finder and then don't nerf the content so that it is faceroll. You've created the game in the first place, I'm pretty sure you can manage this.

 

Making an LFD tool means that the content for it needs to be completable by said group. If people are getting random groups of people that have never played together, there won't be much coordination and the content won't get finished. People will get very upset if they queue constantly and then they aren't able to beat the instance, and then the nerfs are all but done. Then all the content is set to be beatable by a random group, and requires no real coordination. Faceroll. Boring. Dull. Lobby game.

 

No please...

[savagepotato]

That happened in your imagination.

 

I guess my imagination must be pervasive, since it seems to have spread to the multitudes of people who say the same thing and are vehemently against a cross realm dungeon finder.

 

The results are readily observable and painfully apparent to anyone who has played WoW and is actually paying attention.

[MasterKayote]

Here is why....

 

I played WoW for 7 years. Groups used to be great. Then an LFG tool was introduced. After that it was hard to keep a group together because the first time everyone died people would drop group for a new one. After the LFG tool was introduced people in groups also turned into asses about jsut about everything that didn't go their way.

 

So in regards to an LFG tool, I say hell no.

 

EDIT: I NEVER have a hard time find a group, and I'm not in a guild.

 

No cross-server, no insta-port. Problem solved.

 

Dont like the auto-group thing? Fine, make a worldwide tool that lets you search by instance, role, and level range. Not this POS we have now thats been used and FAILED multiple times in other games that only searches for players in the immediate area with hardly any information on what the player is looking for, or what role he is able to fill.

 

The problem is finding groups. Your personal success in finding groups is obviously not everyone elses. There has been multiple occasions in which I and others have been searching for over an hour, stuck LFG'ing in the stupid fleet, looking for a tank, healer, or both. SOMETHING is needed to alleviate this boring, waste of time that is finding a group in this game, be it an Auto LFG Tool or some other tool that pools all the players in the server who are interested in grouping. As much as I hate a Cross Server, Insta-porting LFG tool ... I still prefer that over the headache we have now.

[Sargantas]

This argument is pointless. Solution, implement the lfg tool. People who don't want to use it, don't use it then. It doesn't ruin community because the people using it probably aren't going to be part of the community anyways. Maybe bioware can make a realm you can go hang out on where the lfg tool is disabled. What I hear is (lfg pugs mewith bad players who want me to carry them and I don't want to so I would rather spam a channel because that guarantees better luck.

 

Now stop comparisons to wow. First, swtor is 3 weeks old. In wow basically everyone was max level so you had all 10 million people to choose from. Swtor has a play pop of around 1 mil and they are spread across levels and servers. If your lucky you may have 1000 level 50's on your server with maybe 200 online at a time. Good luck spamming to that population.population.

 

Finally mmorpg's are not based on community, they are based on completing missions with other people. If you played.wow you probably interacted with 200 people on a consistent basis before lfg, lfg forced you to interact with more thus BOOSTING the community. Sticking to your niche does not constitute community.

 

Lastly, as with any game the whole idea is time. No one finds it fun to spam a channel for 30 min to do 1 op that may not even happen. That's why everyone is in pvp because it is a lfg system. What what swtor has a lfg and no ones complaining? Correct warzones utilize a lfg and no ones bashing them. If its essential for warzones why not for ops? People still do remade for zones they can do remade for ops. Get over it you already use it.

[Taroen]

But that occurs even if I use a LFD tool. I don't have to use the chat box for that.

 

We're both getting into walls of text here and it's getting a little too much. I did read your post but I cropped it to try to stop the fact that our posts seem to keep getting bigger and bigger.

 

You say that forming a group yourself doesn't lead to more socializing. I tend to disagree.

 

But one thing I know for sure... Dropping in with a random group of people to rush to the last boss and get the loot sure as hell doesn't lead to more socializing. I would say that it leads to less. MUCH less.

 

But really, I don't care if you socialize or not. I just don't want to see the game's content tooled to random group strength just because some people want a LFD tool to become the norm. I LIKE the fact that some (not all) of the content requires some coordination and the ability to rely on other people in your group to do certain things. Random LFD groups won't have it, and when they can't beat the content, the content gets nerfed.

 

Please... no.

[savagepotato]

This argument is pointless. Solution, implement the lfg tool. People who don't want to use it, don't use it then. It doesn't ruin community because the people using it probably aren't going to be part of the community anyways. Maybe bioware can make a realm you can go hang out on where the lfg tool is disabled. What I hear is (lfg pugs mewith bad players who want me to carry them and I don't want to so I would rather spam a channel because that guarantees better luck.

 

Now stop comparisons to wow. First, swtor is 3 weeks old. In wow basically everyone was max level so you had all 10 million people to choose from. Swtor has a play pop of around 1 mil and they are spread across levels and servers. If your lucky you may have 1000 level 50's on your server with maybe 200 online at a time. Good luck spamming to that population.population.

 

Finally mmorpg's are not based on community, they are based on completing missions with other people. If you played.wow you probably interacted with 200 people on a consistent basis before lfg, lfg forced you to interact with more thus BOOSTING the community. Sticking to your niche does not constitute community.

 

Lastly, as with any game the whole idea is time. No one finds it fun to spam a channel for 30 min to do 1 op that may not even happen. That's why everyone is in pvp because it is a lfg system. What what swtor has a lfg and no ones complaining? Correct warzones utilize a lfg and no ones bashing them. If its essential for warzones why not for ops? People still do remade for zones they can do remade for ops. Get over it you already use it.

 

Actually you have convinced me to change my stance.

 

The more I think about it now I say leave it exactly as it is. If you want to get groups faster, form connections, join a guild, interact with other guilds to form groups. Force it to be a social game and do not give in to the incessant push by the anti-social to make the game bend to their play style.

 

Keep it just as it is Bioware. End of story.

[Taroen]

Irrelevant. Dungeon finders aren't the only option, but they are the best option.

 

Not even close to it.

[Cameirus]

If your lucky you may have 1000 level 50's on your server with maybe 200 online at a time. Good luck spamming to that population.population.

 

 

I think not.

 

Even at PEAK usage, by BWs own figures, there is an average of 1600 players on a server.

 

split that over factions, take out the sub 50s (which is probably the majority), factor out the ones pvp'ing, running with guild, questing, crafting, in space missions or whatever, and the pool of players is pretty damm small.

 

Out of which you have to find healer and tank willing to pug aswell as 2 dps.