LFG Tool is NOT Needed

[Taroen]

It's not a strawman. He does not present it as anyone's argument, and does not claim to have refuted your original argument in any way.

 

Please stop parroting terms that you do not understand.

 

Please stop thinking you understand it. He is clearly using hyperbole to satirize the argument that he doesn't like, and constructed the SAME OLD TIRED

 

STRAWMAN

 

That people who dont want the faceroll insta-group crap think that socializing consists of spamming general chat.

 

If you can't get that, I don't know what to tell you.

[iselb]

No, It's NOT.

 

You can claim it all you want to but if they put up a random instance finder tool, and then 99% of the people can't complete it because they've never learned to cooperate with other people, or even how to play their own class, then the content will get nerfed to hell and back to make it more to their level.

 

And then nothing is left for the rest of us but raids.

 

Dude you know nothing, my little spam was just for fun by the way and to piss people off like you... I'm sure alot of people looked at my spam and thought, "that's me everytime I try find a group."

 

The reason why stuff gets nerfed on WoW is because they allow alot more content, so if you rerole... You don't have to spend so long to get to level 60. There's always a reason behind nerfing and it's not because the players are getting worse at the game. "You know nothing..."

[RocNessMonster]

If you read the entire thread (DON'T. You'll seriously start bleeding in places you didn't think possible), you'll notice that this is the trend.

 

He ignores when people point out his complete conjecture.

 

He ignores when people point out his numerous fallacies.

 

He ignores examples, statistics, quotes, ect..

 

You can say the exact same thing for the people arguing against him.

[Halbe]

Pls tell what other games that have done this, or are u just speculating about things u dont know anything about?

 

WoW did it, but as anyone who understands the model (you can find MANY reviews on it), it's not the LFG tool, it's how they've modeled the progression. When one tier is about to open, give more access to the oldest.

 

Rift did the same. Heck, Rift put in, is putting in solo/duo instances for players to see content (I'd also argue that the class make-up for end-game in rift was a major reason for the nerfs/tweaks, but I digress).

 

EQ2 put one in, and players never use it (there's a news flash). The way they do it, with enhancements, would be a pretty good place to start for SWToR.

 

LotRO is putting one in (it may be in already, has update 5 went in?), because they realize it just makes sense.

 

Vanguard had one I believe, and I didn't hear from the 4 players that play that it trivialized the content. Actually, I've heard the endgame in Vanguard is pretty good, and it's a solid game now.

 

Public quests in Warhammer did this.

 

From what I understand, GW2 will take the public quest idea and expand on it, so I'm sure they will have a LFG function.

[Taroen]

U mean the 99% that never did the flashpoints before because they dident get groups for them.

 

Shame on them, why would they want to play the game like the 1% that u belong to...

 

And again i saiy itm u can tune down content for people that use the LFG tool but keep it the same for people that dont.

 

Everyone wins on that dont they??

 

We do have regulars and hardmodes, and I am not against a tool for the regulars, or the pre-50 stuff. Just the hardmodes.

[Halbe]

You can say the exact same thing for the people arguing against him.

 

I could also say the cucumber tastes better pickled.

 

Doesn't make it true.

 

Or does it?

[Gungan]

I wouldn't be. You'd change the game with your tool because all the content needs to be able to be cleared by a bunch of random people with no coordination. Faceroll.

 

NOT WANTED.

 

This is ridiculous speculation. Having an intuitive, well designed LFG tool has absolutely nothing to do with developers re-tuning content as they see fit.

 

Your entire dislike of a LFG system is based on complete falacy.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Gungan

[jettemakaron]

WoW did it, but as anyone who understands the model (you can find MANY reviews on it), it's not the LFG tool, it's how they've modeled the progression. When one tier is about to open, give more access to the oldest.

 

Rift did the same. Heck, Rift put in, is putting in solo/duo instances for players to see content (I'd also argue that the class make-up for end-game in rift was a major reason for the nerfs/tweaks, but I digress).

 

EQ2 put one in, and players never use it (there's a news flash). The way they do it, with enhancements, would be a pretty good place to start for SWToR.

 

LotRO is putting one in (it may be in already, has update 5 went in?), because they realize it just makes sense.

 

Vanguard had one I believe, and I didn't hear from the 4 players that play that it trivialized the content. Actually, I've heard the endgame in Vanguard is pretty good, and it's a solid game now.

 

Public quests in Warhammer did this.

 

From what I understand, GW2 will take the public quest idea and expand on it, so I'm sure they will have a LFG function.

 

The question was about the LFG tool and if it would make them nerf the content, and u say yourself that its not so i dont get your point.

[ferroz]

Please stop thinking you understand it. He is clearly using hyperbole to satirize the argument that he doesn't like, and constructed the SAME OLD TIRED

 

STRAWMAN

Using a large font size doesn't make it true; stop parroting a term that you clearly do not understand.

 

Hyperbole != strawman.

 

In that particular case, he's offering anecdotal evidence with hyperbole. There's no strawman present.

 

That people who dont want the faceroll insta-group crap think that socializing consists of spamming general chat.

Ad hominem speculation.

 

If you can't get that, I don't know what to tell you.

Get what? you misused a term (again), posted speculation, made an ad hominem attack, and didn't offer anything valid.

 

Is your point that you have nothing valid to add to the discussion? That seems to be the case.

[Moricthian]

You can say the exact same thing for the people arguing against him.

 

Torean's a rare bread though. Most of the people in this thread actually deal with arguments and respond to each other. They might not agree but at least they pretend like they read the other person's argument. Torean literally just makes things up and provides no actual evidence or reasoning whatsoever. Look back through the thread, if you agree with his conclusion, its because you already did, not because of any evidence he provided.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Moricthian

[fishoa]

We do have regulars and hardmodes, and I am not against a tool for the regulars, or the pre-50 stuff. Just the hardmodes.

 

Spot the scrub, guys.

[Gungan]

No, It's NOT.

 

You can claim it all you want to but if they put up a random instance finder tool, and then 99% of the people can't complete it because they've never learned to cooperate with other people, or even how to play their own class, then the content will get nerfed to hell and back to make it more to their level.

 

And then nothing is left for the rest of us but raids.

 

How do you learn to cooperate with others if you can't find a group to practice?

Edited January 11, 2012 by Gungan

[ferroz]

Look back through the thread, if you agree with his conclusion, its because you already did, not because of any evidence he provided.

You have an extra not in there (I think I fixed it).

 

Seriously, if I were anti-lfd I'd want him to go somewhere else; he's making that entire argument look absurd.

[Taroen]

Dude you know nothing, my little spam was just for fun by the way and to piss people off like you... I'm sure alot of people looked at my spam and thought, "that's me everytime I try find a group."

 

The reason why stuff gets nerfed on WoW is because they allow alot more content, so if you rerole... You don't have to spend so long to get to level 60. There's always a reason behind nerfing and it's not because the players are getting worse at the game. "You know nothing..."

 

Well, you didn't piss me off, so that failed. =P

 

The reason that the term "heroics" in WoW is such a joke is because the faceroll LFD people hit 85, they cried so hard when they couldn't auto-win, and Blizzard caved and nerfed the hell out of them. Now they're tuned for random groups of faceroll people and it's boring as hell.

 

They actually used to be fairly fun, and the content hadn't been out very long at all when that happened.

 

What's sad is that your probably right about the "that's me everytime I try to find a group" part. So many people in this thread seem to think that the only way to get a group is to spam general...

 

Their loss.

[jettemakaron]

We do have regulars and hardmodes, and I am not against a tool for the regulars, or the pre-50 stuff. Just the hardmodes.

 

Why not allow everone to enjoy lvl 50stuff aswell?

 

I bet those 99% wana do them aswell.

[Halbe]

The question was about the LFG tool and if it would make them nerf the content, and u say yourself that its not so i dont get your point.

 

Point being this:

 

There is not ONE LFG Tool.

 

This notion that every LFG tool has to be like WoWs, and will make the game turn out like WoWs (such a deductive fallacy) because of it is just misplaced angst.

 

A LFG tool can be many things.

 

It doesn't have to be cross server. It doesn't have to teleport. It doesn't have to trivialize content.

 

In other games, it doesn't do ANY of the functions worried about in this thread.

 

If someones argument is that a LFG tool ALWAYS dumbs down content, and then you show EXAMPLES of where it did not, what does that make the argument?

[Taroen]

Using a large font size doesn't make it true; stop parroting a term that you clearly do not understand.

 

Hyperbole != strawman.

 

In that particular case, he's offering anecdotal evidence with hyperbole. There's no strawman present.

 

Ad hominem speculation.

 

Get what? you misused a term (again), posted speculation, made an ad hominem attack, and didn't offer anything valid.

 

Is your point that you have nothing valid to add to the discussion? That seems to be the case.

 

Guess what, I never misused the term in the first place.

 

[Taroen]

You have an extra not in there (I think I fixed it).

 

Seriously, if I were anti-lfd I'd want him to go somewhere else; he's making that entire argument look absurd.

 

Yes, you're really blazing trails with your whole "false statement" rebuttals..

 

lol

[Moricthian]

Well, you didn't piss me off, so that failed. =P

 

The reason that the term "heroics" in WoW is such a joke is because the faceroll LFD people hit 85, they cried so hard when they couldn't auto-win, and Blizzard caved and nerfed the hell out of them. Now they're tuned for random groups of faceroll people and it's boring as hell.

 

They actually used to be fairly fun, and the content hadn't been out very long at all when that happened.

 

What's sad is that your probably right about the "that's me everytime I try to find a group" part. So many people in this thread seem to think that the only way to get a group is to spam general...

 

Their loss.

 

Let's play a game called find the evidence and support in this post. He makes rediculous claims but doens't actually provide you with any reason to believe they are true. Whoever can do it wins the thread.

[ferroz]

Guess what, I never misused the term in the first place.

Yes... you did. You have yet to use it correctly in this thread.

 

I notice you didn't dispute any of the other elements. I'll take that as an agreement that you were just posting speculation, making an ad hominem attack, and not actually offering anything valid to the discussion.

Edited January 12, 2012 by ferroz

[jettemakaron]

Point being this:

 

There is not ONE LFG Tool.

 

This notion that every LFG tool has to be like WoWs, and will make the game turn out like WoWs (such a deductive fallacy) because of it is just misplaced angst.

 

A LFG tool can be many things.

 

It doesn't have to be cross server. It doesn't have to teleport. It doesn't have to trivialize content.

 

In other games, it doesn't do ANY of the functions worried about in this thread.

 

If someones argument is that a LFG tool ALWAYS dumbs down content, and then you show EXAMPLES of where it did not, what does that make the argument?

 

I still dont get your point, i say that LFG tool DONT make them nerf the content, why do u then try to convince me that it DONT, im confused??

[spacepuppy]

I'm still on the fence with LFG tool. It brought its own set of glaring community problems, but it fixed some too. Namely you could actually play the darn game, not sit on your butt spamming LFG for anywhere up to an hour or more. If BioWare were to introduce one, they need to enforce stricter punishments and consequences for bad behavior and have active GMs. Basically, learn from That Other Game, because there are free to act like idiots, ninja loot or be plain abusive and they knew they could get away with it.

[Gabrandt]

So don't use it.

 

I'm a healer. I want one, and I'll be using it. Who the hell are you to tell me this feature isn't needed?

 

Are you truly so arrogant, ignorant and stupid as to believe that your personal inability to deal with a feature in a completely different game must apply to all of us?

 

That's just... *sigh*

[Taroen]

Torean's a rare bread though. Most of the people in this thread actually deal with arguments and respond to each other. They might not agree but at least they pretend like they read the other person's argument. Torean literally just makes things up and provides no actual evidence or reasoning whatsoever. Look back through the thread, if you agree with his conclusion, its because you already did, not because of any evidence he provided.

 

You've provided no evidence, other than anecdotal, yourself.

 

And if most of you were spending this time in the game trying to make contacts instead of whining to me on the forums about how mean I am for not wanting your insta-gib crappy sleepwalk gaming concept, you'd be running the group content all the time.

 

Problem solved.

[ferroz]

Yes, you're really blazing trails with your whole "false statement" rebuttals..

Most of the time that I do that, I followup with a reason (or have recently done so, making that unnecessary)

 

When I don't, I generally feel that I've quoted something so obviously false that it's kind of silly to go into detail why. I will if you want, but folks generally feel that's just being pedantic.

Edited January 12, 2012 by ferroz