LFG Tool is NOT Needed

[Taroen]

I think you missed the point. Spamming /1 looking for a group is not socializing. People like the one you're quoting aren't playing the wrong game just because they aren't interested in sitting around doing an activity that is not socializing.

 

personally, I'm all for an lfd tool because I like socializing with people.

 

Bad strawman is bad.

 

No one is saying that spamming the general is socializing. We're saying that if you think that spamming the general is the only way to get a group, then you haven't socialized enough, if at all.

 

If you really liked socializing with people, you wouldn't be having trouble finding people to do things with.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Taroen

[fishoa]

Haha, people are so self-entitled.

 

Arguments for the anti-LFG people are:

1. But it ruins communities!
   
2. But free gear!
   
3. But it's not hard to find a group!
   

 

It doesn't ruin communities. Get off your high horse.

 

And who cares about dungeon gear anyway? If you care about people getting gear that is already easy to get, you're a baddie that will never down the first boss of the entry level ops.

 

If you're a healer or a tank, it's not hard to find a group. Geez, I wonder why. Why don't you reroll a republic side DPS on a PvE server and try to form a group?

 

B-B-But... just get in a guild. You will be fine.

 

This game is dead anyway. This is just beating on a dead horse.

[maradigamer]

If you're talking like, boss mods or stuff like that, then no. I don't want those.

 

Most particularly I want a lot more UI customization. Not enough spaces on the hotbars for all of the trained skills in some classes, and... for like the bottom bar, if your companion bar is covering it you can't even use the keybinds you set for it. Two windows at a time open only that you can't move, and God forbid a companion come back from a mission while you're browsing the GTN, because then you get to start all over.

 

Some of the elements are way too big, and some too small... yada yada.

 

But no, I don't want clique or decursive or stuff to tell people that they're standing in the fire. Not needed, imo.

 

As for the content, I think ANY of it could be done by pugs if they didn't give up at the first wipe. Not all pugs... probably a lot of them. But the pugs do tend to give up pretty easy. They'd have to understand the concept of crowd control and not be putting strength gear on their Smuggler toon, but beyond that... Sure...

 

Hm, really don't see the problem with lfg then, at least not with the current content. People should expect to wipe a few times on their first run through with randoms. Once enough healers and tanks have experience, we can usually keep all but the worst of the random dps alive though, right?

[Vgbeee]

Yeah, I don't know what you're vision of evolving would be, but MMOs have not evolved in any meaningful way, ever.

 

Devolved, in most respects.

 

I'm not here to discuss how theme parks have killed the genre or how WoW made the entire genre stagnant. Save that for something awful or 4chan or something. I'm simply here to say that the LFG is *** for no other reason than Bioware being *** themselves.

 

People don't not use the LFG because they're afraid to socialize or because they're not aware of it. They don't use it because it is ***.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Vgbeee

[ferroz]

Sorry but you are wrong there buddy. I played from beta/release on, LFG tool put the nail in the coffin for World of Warcraft.

You're just looking at the game through rose colored glasses.

 

The server community was dead long before lfg tool went in; even in it's heyday it wasn't a patch on other games, ones that weren't instanced and were designed to require grouping even for the simplest tasks.

[Moricthian]

Silly strawman is silly.

 

Almost as silly as your rediculous argument. I shouldnt have to get to know people to run a flashpoint. If I want to get to know people, I will. Playing with people and getting to know them are separate things. I play counterstrike online and I should have to get to know people there either. I'll get to know tpeople I want to get to know, not everyone I group with thx.

[Liathan]

Asked and answered... many, many times. Normally I would think that you were trolling, but I'm going to assume that you honestly didn't see it and tell you.

 

Talk to people. That's all it really amounts to. It snowballs from there. In the early game I was mostly alone because my guidlies didn't have access yet or were way ahead of me. I'd see someone ask a question in general and I would help them. I would see someone almost dead from pulling too much and help them, too. I would ask people questions of my own.

 

When I saw someone close to a heroic 4 or 2+ I would talk to them and see if they wanted to run it. Friends lists are built in this way. By the time I was on Alderaan, there was only 3 or 4 other people on the planet, because I play a lot and got ahead of the levelling curve. Unfortunately I had outlevelled most of the people I had met previously.

 

I talked to the new ones. They talked back. We ran content together.

 

Never one time have I ever stood around spamming the general chat for a group. Not once. I did miss a bit of the group content, but that's just because there is more levelling content in the game than you can do without it going grey on you. I'm not really into doing grey stuff. I will get those on my alt.

 

Well you’re correct in that I didn’t see it because I’m not going to read 90 pages of a thread looking for one answer.

 

Guess what, I answer questions in general and I help random people kill a mob when I’m running by, that has never lead to a conversation or anyone asking if I want to group. I strike up conversations with people in my groups, add them to my friends, and tell people if they ever need a tank to hit me up. I try and do things with guildies, and yet plenty of times we still need 1-2 people to fill out the group. Those groups were never filled by messaging a friends list or messaging people who were flagged as LFG, that would require people to use the system, it was always filled by spamming general chat once a minute for 5-10 minutes or eventually giving up.

 

Good on you for doing it the way you did and having the success that you did, that’s not everyone’s story and nor is it the story that everyone wants. To sit here and deny people the opportunity to run group content unless they do things your specific way is arrogant and selfish.

[Red_Vs_Blue]

WoW community ALWAYS SUCKED! THE LFG JUST MADE IT MORE VISABLE! Have you tried getting a group into a heroic? Stopping your progress to sit on the fleet for hours on end spamming "LFG For HM's" Is not my version of fun.

[Taroen]

I'm not here to discuss how theme parks have killed the genre or how WoW made the entire genre stagnant. Save that for something awful or 4chan or something. I'm simply here to say that the LFG is *** for no other reason than Bioware being *** themselves.

 

People don't not use the LFG because they're afraid to socialize or because they're not aware of it. They don't use it because it is ***.

 

Lot's of stars in your quote there, man.

 

But 2 things...

 

I'm only arguing against the people that want an instant dungeon finder ala WoW for the hardmode content. I actually think it would be good for the game to have one for pre-50 content on the same server. Or even normal 50 flashpoints.

 

And, I'm laughing at the people who think that such a tool is supposed to be a "basic" MMO feature when even WoW was raking in the billions before they added it, and now that game is in decline.

[HavenAE]

Here is why....

 

I played WoW for 7 years. Groups used to be great. Then an LFG tool was introduced. After that it was hard to keep a group together because the first time everyone died people would drop group for a new one. After the LFG tool was introduced people in groups also turned into asses about jsut about everything that didn't go their way.

 

So in regards to an LFG tool, I say hell no.

 

EDIT: I NEVER have a hard time find a group, and I'm not in a guild.

 

There already is a LFG tool.

 

LFD tool is a different story and should be considered for SAME SERVER ONLY.

[Goatwarlord]

A better LFG Tool IS needed. On my server out of about 100 people on the space dock theres maybe 3 with the LFG icon next to there name. Its clearly a bad system because its barely seeing use.

 

If you want a group you'll have to sit and spam chat, which is antiquated and prevents your from having fun while waiting for a group. SWTOR players would greatly benefit from a LFD systems convenience.

 

If it is only your server its players could police the community and deter ninjas/jerks/idiots, but if it encompasses all servers it would need very strict/specific need or greed rules to not become the pita it is in WoW.

[Liathan]

No, you make small talk to feel each other out, to see if you're simpatico and might enjoy teaming with each other (e.g. some people want to spacebar cutscenes, others want to go experience the cutscenes, and if you have a strong preference either way, that's something you can briefly broach in a few words).

 

It's not as onerous a burden as you're making it out to be to press your point, it only takes a few words here and there. It's all in the timing

 

so I need to make 5 minutes of small talk with everyone before I decide if I can invite them to a group? People will quite the group by the time it's full...

[Moricthian]

Well you’re correct in that I didn’t see it because I’m not going to read 90 pages of a thread looking for one answer.

 

Guess what, I answer questions in general and I help random people kill a mob when I’m running by, that has never lead to a conversation or anyone asking if I want to group. I strike up conversations with people in my groups, add them to my friends, and tell people if they ever need a tank to hit me up. I try and do things with guildies, and yet plenty of times we still need 1-2 people to fill out the group. Those groups were never filled by messaging a friends list or messaging people who were flagged as LFG, that would require people to use the system, it was always filled by spamming general chat once a minute for 5-10 minutes or eventually giving up.

 

Good on you for doing it the way you did and having the success that you did, that’s not everyone’s story and nor is it the story that everyone wants. To sit here and deny people the opportunity to run group content unless they do things your specific way is arrogant and selfish.

 

This this this

[gurugeorge]

You mean the LFG function that I use every time and I’m the only person flagged on a planet with 50 to 75 other people on it or when I got to fleet and then there are three other people flagged as LFG but none of them are looking for my instance?

 

If you type LFG in the search box, you get a selection of up to 100 people who are LFG ON YOUR SERVER, drawn from all planets, all instances.

 

Also, if you clear the search box and hit return, you get a selection of 100 people ON YOUR SERVER.

 

Now that you know this, you might well say this should be more obvious. And I'd agree!

[Taroen]

Well you’re correct in that I didn’t see it because I’m not going to read 90 pages of a thread looking for one answer.

 

Guess what, I answer questions in general and I help random people kill a mob when I’m running by, that has never lead to a conversation or anyone asking if I want to group. I strike up conversations with people in my groups, add them to my friends, and tell people if they ever need a tank to hit me up. I try and do things with guildies, and yet plenty of times we still need 1-2 people to fill out the group. Those groups were never filled by messaging a friends list or messaging people who were flagged as LFG, that would require people to use the system, it was always filled by spamming general chat once a minute for 5-10 minutes or eventually giving up.

 

Good on you for doing it the way you did and having the success that you did, that’s not everyone’s story and nor is it the story that everyone wants. To sit here and deny people the opportunity to run group content unless they do things your specific way is arrogant and selfish.

 

Actually what is arrogant and selfish are the people who want instant gratification and a dumbed down game so that they can cruise through content that should be a bit of a challenge. Arrogant and selfish is wanting a lobby game so they don't have to be bothered to talk to people in the game.

 

Not saying that's you, but that describes the vast majority of the people who want that tool, and it's what the game will change to... boring faceroll crap... if they get what they want for the hardmode flashpoints.

 

You're saying I'm selfish because I don't want the game changed into a lobby game, but you're being just as selfish for wanting to change the game into something that YOU want.

[Allmightyprom]

I stopped reading as soon as i saw the word WoW.

 

Sorry OP.

[Liathan]

Exactly.

 

Actually, there's another point here. In older style MMOs people HAD to talk to each other because some of the content was so difficult that teaming was required, therefore if you were in the same area you would want to talk to each other because you needed people to do some of the content.

 

This was a design feature.

 

Now "forced teaming" like this isn't for everyone, but it sure as hell is one very powerful way of building virtual community in a virtual world, and inducing memorable gameplay.

 

In heavily instanced games, on the other hand, an LFG tool is absolutely necessary.

 

But any form of automation for doing group content ought to be avoided as much as possible, if there are alternative that can be utilized that involve people talking to each other.

 

Automation is absolutely fine for lobby-based multiplayer, but not for any game that involves heavy investment in lore (like SW) and/or roleplaying (in the weak sense).

 

No people didn't HAVE to talk with other people beyond once again, spamming a chat channel or sending random tells to see if people needed to do something. Force teaming does nothing to build community. I've added plenty of people to my friends list and then removed them a week later for various reasons. No community was built. For 95% of the people there's no talking beyond saying "LF1M healer" in a chat channel.

[Karzi]

If you type LFG in the search box, you get a selection of up to 100 people who are LFG ON YOUR SERVER, drawn from all planets, all instances.

 

Also, if you clear the search box and hit return, you get a selection of 100 people ON YOUR SERVER.

 

Now that you know this, you might well say this should be more obvious. And I'd agree!

 

And if you type in the dungeons name, it will show you the 0 people inside it.

[Moricthian]

If you type LFG in the search box, you get a selection of up to 100 people who are LFG ON YOUR SERVER, drawn from all planets, all instances.

 

Also, if you clear the search box and hit return, you get a selection of 100 people ON YOUR SERVER.

 

Now that you know this, you might well say this should be more obvious. And I'd agree!

 

Stop trying to defend a useless lfg tool. The fact that these threads get so long shows u that it doesn't work. How many people need to point this out to you before u listen?

[Taroen]

No people didn't HAVE to talk with other people beyond once again, spamming a chat channel or sending random tells to see if people needed to do something. Force teaming does nothing to build community. I've added plenty of people to my friends list and then removed them a week later for various reasons. No community was built. For 95% of the people there's no talking beyond saying "LF1M healer" in a chat channel.

 

And you people wonder why you're getting called anti-social...?

[ferroz]

Bad strawman is bad.

You should really learn what that word means if you're going to use it.

 

No one is saying that spamming the general is socializing.

Actually, the person I quoted is, since he's disagreeing with a person who says that it isn't.

 

So, not a straw man.

 

Even if you were right (and you're not), and noone was arguing that (and they are), it's still not a strawman because I don't use my rebuttal of whether that's social or not to rebut your original argument in any way.

 

If you really liked socializing with people, you wouldn't be having trouble finding people to do things with.

Not really. I like socializing with people; there's hardly anyone around when I'm playing, so my opportunities are limited.

 

There are the people who like socializing, are too shy to spam random people (since it's kind of rude) but are fine chatting it up with people they're matched with in a matching system.

 

There are the people who like socializing, but the people they wind up knowing who are on at the time just aren't the right roles to do anything meaningful; say, 2 tanks and a dps, none of which with a heal ability or companion.

 

that's 3 easy counterexamples of people who really like socializing with people but are still having trouble finding people to do things with.

Edited January 11, 2012 by ferroz

[Karzi]

Actually what is arrogant and selfish are the people who want instant gratification and a dumbed down game so that they can cruise through content that should be a bit of a challenge. Arrogant and selfish is wanting a lobby game so they don't have to be bothered to talk to people in the game.

 

But what are we going to do about the pvp warzone queue? I mean loot better/faster than you will get in the early pve stages just by sitting in the lobby? Are you leading the charge against this?

[Kijjik]

I can only speak for myself. The main reason I was playing WoW was because of the dungeon finder. Being in a guild does not help with a particular instance you want to do RIGHT THEN. Guildies are not going to stop whtat they are doing run half way across the world for your benefit. Hell, I couldn't even get my guildies to show up for scheduled events.

 

If you want to bray /lfg like an *** for an hour, then you might get a group. I am amazed that this game would spend so many years in dev and not have a way to get people together efficiently. Monumental failure. This right now is solo rpg where you see other players running around aimlessly while you pursue your own personal storyline.

 

No instance finder is only one of the problems, but it is the one that affects me the most. The others are lack of char customization, boring/unoriginal combat animations and lack of replayability. In CoH I played dozens of alts over the years and each char was very different. This game is so story driven that there is zero incentive to replay with an alt.

 

Even so, with all the negs mentioned, I enjoy the game for what it is and for the huge effort that AN has put into it. To compete with WoW a game has to be brilliant, almost a work of genius. Wow is a hard act to follow. For me, it's onward to GW2 -- but not expecting much from that game either given what I have seen on Utube.

[Moricthian]

But what are we going to do about the pvp warzone queue? I mean loot better/faster than you will get in the early pve stages just by sitting in the lobby? Are you leading the charge against this?

 

Don't worry about Torean, he likes to make rediculous claims and then support them with no evidence whatsoever.

[gurugeorge]

so I need to make 5 minutes of small talk with everyone before I decide if I can invite them to a group? People will quite the group by the time it's full...

 

Another strawman.

 

Just say a few words, be polite and considerate, use your intuition and intelligence.

 

Talk to people.

 

Also, TALK TO YOUR TEAM. Let them know what's going on. People can indeed get antsy if the team leader is silent while sweating away at getting more members. Just throw them a bone now and then to let them know what's going on - e.g. "sry for delay guys, got a Sorc coming in a few mins".

 

Again, you'll find that communication like this pays dividends in terms of the PUG sticking together for a bit longer.

 

When I played CoX, I used to lead PUGs all the time. The LFG tool was only a bit more refined than the one in SWTOR (although it was slicker in some subtle ways). When I led PUGs, we'd usually stick together for maybe 3 or 4 missions. People stick around when there's a bit of team spirit, and if you're a considerate, communicative leader, you co-create that team spirit, and although people don't necessarily thank you for it, you're rewarded by a longer-lasting PUG - i.e., yes, it's a bit of work to set a team up this way, but you only have to do it once for a reasonably long-lasting session of team gameplay.