LFG Tool is NOT Needed

[Sargantas]

I'm happy you asked! I play MMOs for the social elements more than anything else. I like meeting people, making friends, and playing in groups. After the launch of LFD in WoW, a few things happened in my observation:

 

1) Dungeons/Heroics were once large pieces of content, and you did 1 or MAYBE 2 a night. The LFD comodotized heroics into things you queue up and "grind" for tokens, and they became 15 minute face-rolls where people would rather die early and collect their tokens rather than play an overly simple game with total strangers.

 

2) My server had a pretty lively PvP and PvE community. Our forums were bangin', and people all knew each other. Suddenly people are no longer playing with each other, conversation dies, forums die, Liore is sad.

 

3) Anonymity + Internet = Jerk. We all know the math. Yes, of course there were jerks before LFD, but we knew who they were and could avoid them.

 

4) Community keeps people logging in. Have you heard someone say, "I would have quit this game except for my friends/guild?" I have. A lot! No community = fewer people logging in = less development money = sad Liore. (You can see this going on in WoW right now.)

I

And that's just off the top of my head.

 

 

Good argument except I bet the majority of players play to see content and not sit in a city and talk, community maybe a large component of the game cut content is the backbone and if the large majority of players don't get to see the content or see it at the rate they will quit. Like it or not the people who play for what you want is in the minority. You played on a (social) realm and I bet not even 10% of the players in the realm took part in the social interactions you speak of

[HoneyBoy]

I'm happy you asked! I play MMOs for the social elements more than anything else. I like meeting people, making friends, and playing in groups. After the launch of LFD in WoW, a few things happened in my observation:

 

1) Dungeons/Heroics were once large pieces of content, and you did 1 or MAYBE 2 a night. The LFD comodotized heroics into things you queue up and "grind" for tokens, and they became 15 minute face-rolls where people would rather die early and collect their tokens rather than play an overly simple game with total strangers.

 

2) My server had a pretty lively PvP and PvE community. Our forums were bangin', and people all knew each other. Suddenly people are no longer playing with each other, conversation dies, forums die, Liore is sad.

 

3) Anonymity + Internet = Jerk. We all know the math. Yes, of course there were jerks before LFD, but we knew who they were and could avoid them.

 

4) Community keeps people logging in. Have you heard someone say, "I would have quit this game except for my friends/guild?" I have. A lot! No community = fewer people logging in = less development money = sad Liore. (You can see this going on in WoW right now.)

 

And that's just off the top of my head.

 

1) What large piece of content are you talking about? You do know Wrath of the Lich King's heroic dungeons were the same size before the LFD was implemented in patch 3.3. Guess what? As people's gear gets better from higher tiers being released this first wave of flashpoints will become easier as well!

 

2) I'm sure the players on your server still pugged and raided together, and they probably still do to this day! I would like to know what realm you played on though, I can't seem to find one single realm forum on their redesigned cataclysm battle.net site without a single post?

 

3) How does this apply to SWTOR? Does each realm have a nightly meeting where they gather at the fleet to discuss who the jerks are? We don't even have server forums. You're playing with a wider potential audience of people, of course it's more probable you can run into jerks.

 

4) Community can still exist alongside a LFD finder. It still does in WoW:

http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/09/22/15-minutes-of-fame-care-packages-spur-renaissance-of-community/

 

Maybe the reason for WoW declining in subs (It still owns a huge majority of the market) is the fact that it's been 7 damn years? Do you expect people to keep paying and playing the rest of their lives?

Edited January 10, 2012 by HoneyBoy

[Teladis]

I'm happy you asked! I play MMOs for the social elements more than anything else. I like meeting people, making friends, and playing in groups. After the launch of LFD in WoW, a few things happened in my observation:

 

1) Dungeons/Heroics were once large pieces of content, and you did 1 or MAYBE 2 a night. The LFD comodotized heroics into things you queue up and "grind" for tokens, and they became 15 minute face-rolls where people would rather die early and collect their tokens rather than play an overly simple game with total strangers.

 

Wrong and Wrong.

The content they made was only being seen by very few people at the time. They pretty much force players with limited time to pvp for ease of access. Everything you listed is the fault of the players not the system and it happen even before the lfg queue system

 

2) My server had a pretty lively PvP and PvE community. Our forums were bangin', and people all knew each other. Suddenly people are no longer playing with each other, conversation dies, forums die, Liore is sad.

Sounds like a server thing to me. World pvp died when flying mounts came out. It also sounds like its your server problem, because mine did not have this problem when LFG came out. In fact more people started to play at the time because there was more to do in the game. Wrath was the highlight of wows life thanks to lfg.

 

3) Anonymity + Internet = Jerk. We all know the math. Yes, of course there were jerks before LFD, but we knew who they were and could avoid them.

 

You can do that with the lfd tool as well. You had to catch them being jerks first before the tool. You have to do it with the tool. Nothing has changed.

4) Community keeps people logging in. Have you heard someone say, "I would have quit this game except for my friends/guild?" I have. A lot! No community = fewer people logging in = less development money = sad Liore. (You can see this going on in WoW right now.)

Not having nothing to do makes people not log in, Not being able to see content, makes people not log in and kills community. All your points are not very good ones.

And that's just off the top of my head.

 

 

 

Not a single person yet has come up with a valid reason why LFG system would be bad. Only stating that it ruins community. Well just because it did for you, it was not the same for everyone else.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Teladis

[JediRaffa]

The dungeon finder was a massive degradation to the feeling of community. I hope bioware sees this.

 

The solution I would like the most is a server wide /lfg channel. Bioware seems really keen on their flagging system, but it is just too much of a light weight effort.

 

There has to be something in between the faceless-ness of the dungeon finder and the chaos of chat spam.

 

LFD is NOT degradation to the community. Bad people is the degradation to the community.

 

LFD offers a tidy tool to put groups together fast, while you are questing / crafting / etc...

 

Just like anything else in this world, if it is not abused, its a superior way to meet new people in realm / cross realm, etc...

 

The people have spoken.....add LFD ASAP.

[GruntNaka]

TBH, I cancelled my subscription on Sunday after spending ~2 hours LF any H FP.

 

 

Need might be the wrong term.

 

I'm not paying for a mmo that doesn't have a viable way to find a grp for the content.

Playing gw/lol/wow as I spam in fleet and have the lfg comment up is not a viable solution,

 

It doesn't even have to be an automated system per say but this game needs something.

 

cjoin lfg for the global channel is bandaid but doesn't seem to be working out.

 

 

 

edited for typo.

Edited January 10, 2012 by GruntNaka

[Crogga]

Ya but won't fix things in the future, Like low pop servers because with a end game like this you know there is going to be a lot of them.

 

 

If you want them people to stay, you need a lfg queue system. If I was blizzard I would be grinning.

 

Grinning? They are laughing their butts off. Between this, the ability delay, heavy instancing and other core problems, they have ZERO worries. By the time BW figures out that a bunch of scare tactics, exaggerations, and false information like this OP, is just holding them back, Blizzard will have rolled out another well polished addicting expansion of something.

 

You need a full blown all out cross server dungeon finder or don't bother. Dps classes esp will just reroll on high pop servers to get lower queus. I would in a heart beat unless I got into a big guild. Unnecessary time sinks are unnecessary and a thing of the past.

 

Edit- o yeah I quit too- not putting up with this. Gives me nightmares of vanilla wow spamming and grinding for field marshall. Plus why would I pay for something where I can't access the content?

Edited January 10, 2012 by Crogga

[Taroen]

Good argument except I bet the majority of players play to see content and not sit in a city and talk, community maybe a large component of the game cut content is the backbone and if the large majority of players don't get to see the content or see it at the rate they will quit. Like it or not the people who play for what you want is in the minority. You played on a (social) realm and I bet not even 10% of the players in the realm took part in the social interactions you speak of

 

And I bet that 80% of the 20% of that 10% didn't care about your made-up statistics.

 

Bioware dev diaries have sided more with her. They care about fostering a community and don't want to see it as just a bunch of random single players tossed in with each other. You may not want to talk to anyone or depend on other players, but that is the very nature of the MMO genre. I've seen people claim that this is somehow a single player game with other people around... and you want to make it even more so?

 

Thanks, but as much as this has been called WoW 2.0 in space, I don't want that to become a reality. WoW is failing now. It's still huge, but it's dropping numbers in chunks that are as big as the entire base for other games. Do you really want to force their current model on this game..?

 

I sure don't.

[TheHeadCapper]

, Blizzard will have rolled out another well polished addicting expansion of something.

 

And i'll be as interested in that expansion as I've been in wow the last 5 years, not at all.

[Teladis]

TBH, I cancelled my subscription on Sunday after spending ~2 hours LF any H FP.

 

 

Need might be the wrong term.

 

I'm not paying for a mmo that doesn't have aviable way to find a grp for the content.

Playing gw/lol/wow as I spam in fleet and have the lfg comment up is not a viable solution,

 

It doesn't even have to be an automated system per say but they this game needs something.

 

cjoin lfg for the global channel is bandaid but doesn't seem to be working out.

 

 

 

My wife and I quit also, One thing we enjoyed the most is getting to meet new people besides the ones on our server. We also enjoyed being able to do things quickly before rl hits us.

 

 

A new mmo without a queue system is not a good mmo.

[a_Stalker]

Here is why....

 

I played WoW for 7 years. Groups used to be great. Then an LFG tool was introduced. After that it was hard to keep a group together because the first time everyone died people would drop group for a new one. After the LFG tool was introduced people in groups also turned into asses about jsut about everything that didn't go their way.

 

So in regards to an LFG tool, I say hell no.

 

EDIT: I NEVER have a hard time find a group, and I'm not in a guild.

 

Since when was the LFG tool in WOW obligatory ? You do not like it don't use it.

[Flain]

We need a cross-server LFG tool and we need it as soon as possible. I, for one, am asking for hours in general chat to do even one hard-mode and failing badly. I am sociable and made many friends but it doesn't matter. I can't and won't pay BW to stand around in the fleet all day shouting out for groups. I'm not lucky enough to be in an active guild at the moment, should I be penalized because of this?. It was laziness on BW's part not to include a LFG tool, plain and simple.

[Taroen]

Grinning? They are laughing their butts off. Between this, the ability delay, heavy instancing and other core problems, they have ZERO worries. By the time BW figures out that a bunch of scare tactics, exaggerations, and false information like this OP, is just holding them back, Blizzard will have rolled out another well polished addicting expansion of something.

 

RIGHT!!! Because everyone is just DYING to rush back to WoW for their Pandas and Pokemon..!!!

 

How can people say crap like what you just said and expect it to be taken seriously..?

 

 

I'd be willing to bet quite a lot of credits that most of the people playing this game came here to get away from Blizzard's idea of an "addicting expansion".

 

[Zhit]

I have taken the advice of anti-LFG tool folks in this thread.

 

You have convinced me that TOR will never meet my expectations. If I am going to pay $15 a month, I'd like to running instances and such--not spamming chat. So add me to the ranks of folks that will off the forums and out of TOR on 1/21.

 

Best of luck to those that remain--hope TOR remains the game you love.

[Teladis]

And I bet that 80% of the 20% of that 10% didn't care about your made-up statistics.

 

Bioware dev diaries have sided more with her. They care about fostering a community and don't want to see it as just a bunch of random single players tossed in with each other. You may not want to talk to anyone or depend on other players, but that is the very nature of the MMO genre. I've seen people claim that this is somehow a single player game with other people around... and you want to make it even more so?

 

Thanks, but as much as this has been called WoW 2.0 in space, I don't want that to become a reality. WoW is failing now. It's still huge, but it's dropping numbers in chunks that are as big as the entire base for other games. Do you really want to force their current model on this game..?

 

I sure don't.

 

 

How is wow failing now? Wow is still going strong, and most of the people who have a problem with it only do because they are burnt out of the game itself. That is the best way to leave a game, not that it sucks, but because they played it way too much.

 

 

If anything after playing this game, it has made me love blizzard and wow more. You take for granted the genius that really was wow.

[Crogga]

And I bet that 80% of the 20% of that 10% didn't care about your made-up statistics.

 

Bioware dev diaries have sided more with her. They care about fostering a community and don't want to see it as just a bunch of random single players tossed in with each other. You may not want to talk to anyone or depend on other players, but that is the very nature of the MMO genre. I've seen people claim that this is somehow a single player game with other people around... and you want to make it even more so?

 

Thanks, but as much as this has been called WoW 2.0 in space, I don't want that to become a reality. WoW is failing now. It's still huge, but it's dropping numbers in chunks that are as big as the entire base for other games. Do you really want to force their current model on this game..?

 

I sure don't.

 

Does it matter what WOw is doing anyway? It's a seven year old game. What will matter is what happens to BW. If their game was so freakin amazing that I had to jump these hurdles I prob would. But it isn't. Get real. Community is a myth or exagarration at best. You can still be in a guild and have a friends list. This is a video game and entertainment first and foremost.

[Liore]

1) What large piece of content are you talking about? You do know Wrath of the Lich King's heroic dungeons were the same size before the LFD was implemented in patch 3.3. Guess what? As people's gear gets better from higher tiers being released this first wave of flashpoints will become easier as well!

 

2) I'm sure the players on your server still pugged and raided together, and they probably still do to this day! I would like to know what realm you played on though, I can't seem to find one single realm forum on their redesigned cataclysm battle.net site without a single post?

 

3) How does this apply to SWTOR? Does each realm have a nightly meeting where they gather at the fleet to discuss who the jerks are? We don't even have server forums. You're playing with a wider potential audience of people, of course it's more probable you can run into jerks.

 

4) Community can still exist alongside a LFD finder. It still does in WoW:

http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/09/22/15-minutes-of-fame-care-packages-spur-renaissance-of-community/

 

Maybe the reason for WoW declining in subs (It still owns a huge majority of the market) is the fact that it's been 7 damn years? Do you expect people to keep paying and playing the rest of their lives?

 

1. Shadow Lab, Shattered Halls. Karazhan pugs! Purple-side Maraudon! There was WoW before WotLK.

 

2. Now now, don't go setting up straw men with the "no one ever played together ever"! My server forums went from ~75 posts a day in Vanilla/TBC/early WotLK to .. well let's see.. there were 3 posts today and no new topics.

 

3. Actually, you could ask anyone on Space Slug who PvPs about the character "Kitty", and the vast majority would know who you're talking about, because he is amazingly good and kicks everyone's butt into the ground! He also has a bit of a rep for being a jerk, so I personally would choose not to do a PvE group with him. (Nothing personal if you read this, Kitty -- I am sensitive about jerks. ) I learned all this just from talkin' to people in server-only PvP or in pugs. No server meeting necessary.

 

4. We'll have to agree to disagree. In my opinion the community in WoW now is a tiny shadow of what it once was. I'm glad to see that some folks are still out there being both social and kind, though.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Liore

[Crogga]

RIGHT!!! Because everyone is just DYING to rush back to WoW for their Pandas and Pokemon..!!!

 

How can people say crap like what you just said and expect it to be taken seriously..?

 

 

I'd be willing to bet quite a lot of credits that most of the people playing this game came here to get away from Blizzard's idea of an "addicting expansion".

 

 

The massive numbers, dollar amounts and longevity of their three main games speak for themselves. They put 'play' above shiney and think that's why they work.

[Zhit]

RIGHT!!! Because everyone is just DYING to rush back to WoW for their Pandas and Pokemon..!!!

 

Too bad there isn't a way to make bets on the internet. I'd bet money that the 1st week North American sales for the next WoW expansion top the 1st week world wide sales for TOR.

 

4. We'll have to agree to disagree. In my opinion the community in WoW now is a tiny shadow of what it once was. I'm glad to see that some folks are still out there being both social and kind, though.

 

The community in WOW has gotten fantastic recently. All the emo carebears left the game to go play some new space MMO. Go figure...

Edited January 10, 2012 by Zhit

[DevonLoy]

You all forget that there is already a bit of an LFG system.

 

You can tag yourself as LFG and see who else wants to get a group by looking at the /who list.

 

 

P.S.

 

I have never had any problems going LFG.... whatever in the chat

[Teladis]

Really bioware has a choice.

 

 

 

To ruin the so called community "That in itself is a joke but whatever I will just agree with it" and give people content that they can play with ease of access.

 

 

 

Or lose money.

 

 

 

 

It's that simple.

 

 

 

Every point someone has made about the tool hurting the community has been shut down. However, the points we made about why it's needed has not been.

 

 

You want to make money? You will add one.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Teladis

[Sargantas]

Wow didn't fail bc of lfg wow is slowly failing because people are ready for something new. However with every other mmo people quit wow for a month or two then go back because its better. To compete with wow you have to improve on wow, not rebrake the game. Lfg kept people playing, I've already seen about 6 posts of people quitting because of no lfg, people want content, if they want to talk they wont pay to play they'll join a cahtroom or go to a bar. I don't pay $15 a month to sit in game for an hour to do something for 45 min. If you enjoy talking in general you can still do that while im in lfg. Chances are people like mr rt talking in chat anyways but we are quitting the game.

[Taroen]

The massive numbers, dollar amounts and longevity of their three main games speak for themselves. They put 'play' above shiney and think that's why they work.

 

Actually, I think you have that backwards...

 

They've been putting the free shinies ahead of the gameplay, and now they're dropping subs pretty hardcore. All of the content is oversimplified to the point of nausea. Even raids are just basically a gear check.

[TheHeadCapper]

The massive numbers, dollar amounts and longevity of their three main games speak for themselves. They put 'play' above shiney and think that's why they work.

 

Well McDonalds sells a ton of burgers that doesn't make them quality food. American Idol has high ratings.....

 

Pretty sure quality and popularity are two different things.

Edited January 10, 2012 by TheHeadCapper

[Teladis]

Actually, I think you have that backwards...

 

They've been putting the free shinies ahead of the gameplay, and now they're dropping subs pretty hardcore. All of the content is oversimplified to the point of nausea. Even raids are just basically a gear check.

 

 

7 years had nothing to do with it at all huh?

 

 

Don't know about you, but a lot of hype and people wanting to play monks and pokemon battles. That in itself sounds a lot more fun over spamming chat for groups.

[Teladis]

Well McDonalds sells a ton of burgers that doesn't make them quality food.

 

 

As long as it sells, it works. Bioware wants to make the big dollars, it needs to cater to all people, not just the community drama ones.